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Post by giantlegacy on Dec 10, 2021 16:08:25 GMT -5
..so tell us how exactly we fix the O line,amongst other things and how to fit him under the cap under this scenario? He is 100% correct there’s plenty of ways, too many to list So you don't know . That's all I need to know |
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Post by myronguyton29 on Dec 10, 2021 16:15:46 GMT -5
I view this the same way I viewed my Lakers. The Lakers had tons of young high drafted players, high draft picks , salary cap issues, revolving door at the coaches position along with the wrong Buss (son of the legend) at the helm of the organization. What happened was a complete trainwreck, fans in upheaval, disasterous draft failures, no playoffs year after year. Sound familiar? Jeannie Buss then drops the hammer. Removes brother from influence. Brings in a champion named Lebron James, allocates GM duties to a players agent Pelinka with no GM experience quietly trades and completely retools the roster signs competitive players, and within a couple of years a champion re establishes the Lakers as world champs. So no we are not a qb away. We are not in this to build a competitive team. We are in this to be champions. You start your base with a champion like Russell Wilson. You bring in somebody at GM who willing to do whatever it takes to build a championship team. Russell in NY will definitely draw minimum pay vets as well. Draft picks now at whatever position are complete garbage with who is currently in control of picking them. This trainwreck has to stop. lol I'm a Laker as well though I don't really watch them at all much anymore since Kobe retired. And yeah we suck right now too smdh with all the so called talent, but they did win one recently. I'm against an aging qb to be honest. If we were a qb away then maybe |
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Post by Fletch842 on Dec 10, 2021 16:21:59 GMT -5
I view this the same way I viewed my Lakers. The Lakers had tons of young high drafted players, high draft picks , salary cap issues, revolving door at the coaches position along with the wrong Buss (son of the legend) at the helm of the organization. What happened was a complete trainwreck, fans in upheaval, disasterous draft failures, no playoffs year after year. Sound familiar? Jeannie Buss then drops the hammer. Removes brother from influence. Brings in a champion named Lebron James, allocates GM duties to a players agent Pelinka with no GM experience quietly trades and completely retools the roster signs competitive players, and within a couple of years a champion re establishes the Lakers as world champs. So no we are not a qb away. We are not in this to build a competitive team. We are in this to be champions. You start your base with a champion like Russell Wilson. You bring in somebody at GM who willing to do whatever it takes to build a championship team. Russell in NY will definitely draw minimum pay vets as well. Draft picks now at whatever position are complete garbage with who is currently in control of picking them. This trainwreck has to stop. I agree with a lot of this (not all) but how do you get rid of Chris Mara and Tim McDonnell? Both in player personnel. they can be relieved of their day to day duties, without pulling their stake in ownership. It's uncomfortable, but that's the problem you face when you hire family members, sometimes decisions need to be made for the betterment of the organization, over family. |
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Post by snyder55 on Dec 10, 2021 16:52:04 GMT -5
if you really think about it, bringing in a 34 year old QB to play behind this O line the less sense it makes, I like Wilson but it just won't work IMO, plus it will put us completely in cap hell for the foreseeable future...
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Post by imgrate on Dec 10, 2021 17:07:59 GMT -5
We couldn't build a team when we had/ have a qb on a rookie contract and draft top 10 every year. I'd rather have a crappy team with a top qb than a crappy team with a bottom qb I'd rather have a stout OL with an average QB and a stout DL with an average QB. Sure, think the front office can actually make that happen? |
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Post by snyder55 on Dec 10, 2021 17:14:35 GMT -5
does anybody really think Russel Wilson can help this team enough to get it back to respectability
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Post by Martin on Dec 10, 2021 17:17:37 GMT -5
does anybody really think Russel Wilson can help this team enough to get it back to respectability I don't at all. Risk vs reward.... too much risk. Build a strong oline. How long has it been? well over 10yrs |
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Post by snyder55 on Dec 10, 2021 17:20:36 GMT -5
does anybody really think Russel Wilson can help this team enough to get it back to respectability I don't at all. Risk vs reward.... too much risk. Build a strong oline. How long has it been? well over 10yrs building a strong O line has been the goal for too long now and we're not even close . |
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Post by Martin on Dec 10, 2021 17:26:36 GMT -5
I don't at all. Risk vs reward.... too much risk. Build a strong oline. How long has it been? well over 10yrs building a strong O line has been the goal for too long now and we're not even close . Agreed and you have to ask yourself why? IMO its the player personnel and scouting dept which are inept. Also bad decisions from upper management. Getting Russell Wilson is another band aid approach that leads to nowhere. |
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Post by snyder55 on Dec 10, 2021 17:29:08 GMT -5
building a strong O line has been the goal for too long now and we're not even close . Agreed and you have to ask yourself why? IMO its the player personnel and scouting dept which are inept. Also bad decisions from upper management. Getting Russell Wilson is another band aid approach that leads to nowhere. absolutely agree... |
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Post by giantlegacy on Dec 10, 2021 17:30:40 GMT -5
building a strong O line has been the goal for too long now and we're not even close . Agreed and you have to ask yourself why? IMO its the player personnel and scouting dept which are inept. Also bad decisions from upper management. Getting Russell Wilson is another band aid approach that leads to nowhere. .. It would be like putting a band aid on a lepper |
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Post by imgrate on Dec 10, 2021 17:59:38 GMT -5
so you think the only change in the whole offseason would be a QB change if we traded for Wilson? Guess you’re new to football Say both first round picks are used in the trade for Wilson. Wilson's cap hit for 2022 is $37M and 2023 is $40M. Explain what other changes would be made in the offseason that would positively impact the roster. Because to make room for Wilson at a bare minimum we're releasing Bradberry, Martinez and Sheppard. Well there's still the 2nd round and 3rd round picks that we have to add help. There's also the fact that your numbers aren't quite right for this exercise. While Russell's cap hit is indeed 37 and 40 mill, the cap hit for us if we traded for him would be 24 and 27 million as Seattle would eat 13mill per year due to signing bonus. So for 2022 cap Spotrac has us at 4.5mill in space as it currently stands. Let's assume we trade only our two 1st round picks. Add Russell Wilson's 24, we are now at 19.5mill over the cap With russ on the team, we don't need DJ so let's say we trade him for 3rd rounder (I think its safe to assume we'd atleast get that much for him). Trading DJ saves ~4.2mill on the 2022 cap, putting us at 15.3mill over the cap. Riley dixon, you suck, so we're going to cut you and save 3million with replacement coming via draft. Now at 12.3mill over cap Kyle Rudolph, you suck too, cut. Saves 5 million in cap space. Now at 7.3mill over cap The last step, we rip up his current deal and extend Wilson 3 years, 150million (using this high of a number so that it can't be argued that it would be signed), 70mill signing bonus. All of the 2022 money would be converted to signing bonus and spread out over the course of the remaining 5 years on the deal, his new cap hit for 2022 would be 14million cap hit from the signing bonus (70 divided by 5), saving us 10million We are now at 3mill in cap space, have added Russell wilson and a 3rd round pick, and lost 2 1st round picks, Kyle Rudolph (who is 100% getting cut anyway), Riley dixon, and Daniel Jones. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Dec 10, 2021 18:22:48 GMT -5
Say both first round picks are used in the trade for Wilson. Wilson's cap hit for 2022 is $37M and 2023 is $40M. Explain what other changes would be made in the offseason that would positively impact the roster. Because to make room for Wilson at a bare minimum we're releasing Bradberry, Martinez and Sheppard. Well there's still the 2nd round and 3rd round picks that we have to add help. There's also the fact that your numbers aren't quite right for this exercise. While Russell's cap hit is indeed 37 and 40 mill, the cap hit for us if we traded for him would be 24 and 27 million as Seattle would eat 13mill per year due to signing bonus. So for 2022 cap Spotrac has us at 4.5mill in space as it currently stands. Let's assume we trade only our two 1st round picks. Add Russell Wilson's 24, we are now at 19.5mill over the cap With russ on the team, we don't need DJ so let's say we trade him for 3rd rounder (I think its safe to assume we'd atleast get that much for him). Trading DJ saves ~4.2mill on the 2022 cap, putting us at 15.3mill over the cap. Riley dixon, you suck, so we're going to cut you and save 3million with replacement coming via draft. Now at 12.3mill over cap Kyle Rudolph, you suck too, cut. Saves 5 million in cap space. Now at 7.3mill over cap The last step, we rip up his current deal and extend Wilson 3 years, 150million (using this high of a number so that it can't be argued that it would be signed), 70mill signing bonus. All of the 2022 money would be converted to signing bonus and spread out over the course of the remaining 5 years on the deal, his new cap hit for 2022 would be 14million cap hit from the signing bonus (70 divided by 5), saving us 10million We are now at 3mill in cap space, have added Russell wilson and a 3rd round pick, and lost 2 1st round picks, Kyle Rudolph (who is 100% getting cut anyway), Riley dixon, and Daniel Jones. And now risk a huge dead money hit on a guy that can be in decline because we extended a guy on a team not even close to even being a playoff team.. Give up the chance for high impact players on the O line and edge rush with our 2 1st round picks Hard pass |
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Post by imgrate on Dec 10, 2021 18:27:13 GMT -5
Well there's still the 2nd round and 3rd round picks that we have to add help. There's also the fact that your numbers aren't quite right for this exercise. While Russell's cap hit is indeed 37 and 40 mill, the cap hit for us if we traded for him would be 24 and 27 million as Seattle would eat 13mill per year due to signing bonus. So for 2022 cap Spotrac has us at 4.5mill in space as it currently stands. Let's assume we trade only our two 1st round picks. Add Russell Wilson's 24, we are now at 19.5mill over the cap With russ on the team, we don't need DJ so let's say we trade him for 3rd rounder (I think its safe to assume we'd atleast get that much for him). Trading DJ saves ~4.2mill on the 2022 cap, putting us at 15.3mill over the cap. Riley dixon, you suck, so we're going to cut you and save 3million with replacement coming via draft. Now at 12.3mill over cap Kyle Rudolph, you suck too, cut. Saves 5 million in cap space. Now at 7.3mill over cap The last step, we rip up his current deal and extend Wilson 3 years, 150million (using this high of a number so that it can't be argued that it would be signed), 70mill signing bonus. All of the 2022 money would be converted to signing bonus and spread out over the course of the remaining 5 years on the deal, his new cap hit for 2022 would be 14million cap hit from the signing bonus (70 divided by 5), saving us 10million We are now at 3mill in cap space, have added Russell wilson and a 3rd round pick, and lost 2 1st round picks, Kyle Rudolph (who is 100% getting cut anyway), Riley dixon, and Daniel Jones. And now risk a huge dead money hit on a guy that can be in decline because we extended a guy on a team not even close to even being a playoff team.. Give up the chance for high impact players on the O line and edge rush with our 2 1st round picks Hard pass Well yes, that is the trade off. Russell wilson or two 1st round picks made by Fredo..lol The point I was getting at is the cap is easy to deal with and you don't even have to cut the higher caliber players (bradberry, shep, Martinez) that LTGOAT was saying. You could also just convert all of Wilson's 2022 salary to signing bonus instead of extending him and have a good little trial year or two prior to extending. |
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Post by Martin on Dec 10, 2021 18:44:50 GMT -5
I agree with a lot of this (not all) but how do you get rid of Chris Mara and Tim McDonnell? Both in player personnel. they can be relieved of their day to day duties, without pulling their stake in ownership. It's uncomfortable, but that's the problem you face when you hire family members, sometimes decisions need to be made for the betterment of the organization, over family. I agree but can Big John actually do this ? To my knowledge *which is limited* he hasn't done something like this yet and mind you it needs to both his brother and nephew. |
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Post by Martin on Dec 10, 2021 18:46:46 GMT -5
Agreed and you have to ask yourself why? IMO its the player personnel and scouting dept which are inept. Also bad decisions from upper management. Getting Russell Wilson is another band aid approach that leads to nowhere. .. It would be like putting a band aid on a lepper Your becoming the new and improved Kruunch! |
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Post by Fletch842 on Dec 10, 2021 19:04:50 GMT -5
they can be relieved of their day to day duties, without pulling their stake in ownership. It's uncomfortable, but that's the problem you face when you hire family members, sometimes decisions need to be made for the betterment of the organization, over family. I agree but can Big John actually do this ? To my knowledge *which is limited* he hasn't done something like this yet and mind you it needs to both his brother and nephew. Can he, sadly, I honestly don't think he has the cajones to do so. |
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Post by imgrate on Dec 10, 2021 19:10:12 GMT -5
Well yes, that is the trade off. Russell wilson or two 1st round picks made by Fredo..lol The point I was getting at is the cap is easy to deal with and you don't even have to cut the higher caliber players (bradberry, shep, Martinez) that LTGOAT was saying. You could also just convert all of Wilson's 2022 salary to signing bonus instead of extending him and have a good little trial year or two prior to extending. In your previous scenario and this one above we'd be kicking the can down the road with respect to Wilson's guaranteed money. As I stated before in this thread, I don't think that's prudent to do with a 34 year old Wilson. There's definitely negatives. But thats just the way it is when having a top qb thats past his rookie deal. I agree that ideally you use the picks on expensive positions like pass rusher and right tackle. However, we're the fans here so if we're talking about what we want to happen then we have to weigh how awful our FO is and the increased risk of them drafting awful players with those picks. So its, trust the FO to turn this thing around or trust Russell Wilson to manufacture us some wins, one of the few dudes out there that can churn out a good offense with a shit OL. |
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Dec 10, 2021 20:01:17 GMT -5
Wilson has shot down all the trade rumors .
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Post by cruzsoldier on Dec 10, 2021 20:08:02 GMT -5
thats bs. He can be a great qb for another 6 years. 6? That number is pulled out of nowhere. Wilson will be 34 at the start of Training camp next year so they said 4 to 5 seasons of Wilson before “retirement” I think the draft picks plus the money it’s gonna cost to many holes to fix it’s not a possibility for quick success. I would try to build the team with quality draft picks we need to keep the likes of Gettleman and Chris Mara and the rest of the Mara family away from the draft. |
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southerner
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Post by southerner on Dec 11, 2021 9:22:16 GMT -5
Wilson is too old, but I would jump at Deshawn Watson……and I don’t give a hoot about his dalliances with all these “masseuses”……notice how they showed up after he signed the big contract to get a piece of the pie. Get Watson as he is young and very good.
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babybulls
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Post by babybulls on Dec 11, 2021 12:04:32 GMT -5
Wilson is too old, but I would jump at Deshawn Watson……and I don’t give a hoot about his dalliances with all these “masseuses”……notice how they showed up after he signed the big contract to get a piece of the pie. Get Watson as he is young and very good. And possibly suspended by the league. Like most on this thread, hard pass on both Wilson and Watson. |
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Post by Kruunch on Dec 11, 2021 12:14:39 GMT -5
Wilson has shot down all the trade rumors . Which means nothing. No player is going to openly admit mid season of trade demands. |
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Post by Rangers13 on Dec 11, 2021 12:18:46 GMT -5
so you think the only change in the whole offseason would be a QB change if we traded for Wilson? Guess you’re new to football Say both first round picks are used in the trade for Wilson. Wilson's cap hit for 2022 is $37M and 2023 is $40M. Explain what other changes would be made in the offseason that would positively impact the roster. Because to make room for Wilson at a bare minimum we're releasing Bradberry, Martinez and Sheppard. too many have yet to discover the salary cap . . . or probably how to pay of their credit card. How so many are lost with math/dollars is startling. They figuratively hit a mental wall and stopped. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Dec 11, 2021 13:19:22 GMT -5
Wilson is too old, but I would jump at Deshawn Watson……and I don’t give a hoot about his dalliances with all these “masseuses”……notice how they showed up after he signed the big contract to get a piece of the pie. Get Watson as he is young and very good. And possibly suspended by the league. Like most on this thread, hard pass on both Wilson and Watson. Miami was ready to offer up 2 2022 and a 2023 1st and 2nd ........ That is what we would be giving up... And adding an incredible cap hit... But.. |
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Dec 11, 2021 15:08:44 GMT -5
Wilson has shot down all the trade rumors . Which means nothing. No player is going to openly admit mid season of trade demands. You think Wilson made "mid season trade demands"? |
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southerner
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Post by southerner on Dec 11, 2021 15:28:53 GMT -5
Wilson will remain in Seattle…it is Pete Carroll who will be leaving, along with GM John Schneider who refuses to build the offensive line……sound familiar?
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Modog
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Post by Modog on Dec 11, 2021 16:24:40 GMT -5
He would cost way too much to get, and the Giants dont have the cap space. Also, I wouldnt trade the two first round picks for anything. We are talking two HIGH 1st round picks. Instead I woud get a cheap FA QB to challenge/replace Jones like Minshew and draft a QB in 2023. Good chance Giants pick again in top 10.
Giants need both 1st round picks to finally build the core for the offense line for next 8+ years.
Just imagine Evan Neal or Ikeem Ekwanu at RT and Tyler Linderbaum at Center to go along with Thomas at LT. One can dream....
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Post by snyder55 on Dec 11, 2021 16:32:27 GMT -5
Wilson is too old, but I would jump at Deshawn Watson……and I don’t give a hoot about his dalliances with all these “masseuses”……notice how they showed up after he signed the big contract to get a piece of the pie. Get Watson as he is young and very good. the lawyer for most of these women is the biggest ambulance chaser in Houston, I like Watson a lot but we just don't have the money he will be asking.. |
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Dec 11, 2021 16:44:54 GMT -5
Wilson is too old, but I would jump at Deshawn Watson……and I don’t give a hoot about his dalliances with all these “masseuses”……notice how they showed up after he signed the big contract to get a piece of the pie. Get Watson as he is young and very good. the lawyer for most of these women is the biggest ambulance chaser in Houston, I like Watson a lot but we just don't have the money he will be asking.. Watson is facing suspension from the NFL not to mention his salary that the Giants can't swing , no ,he is scum . |
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