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Post by vinnie on Sept 24, 2022 11:35:41 GMT -5
And again, we’re 3 weeks in, I don’t put much stock into any of that. Our offense is better than Tampa? Lol, ok, we’ll see where that’s at in a month or two. I like stats (for the most part) but I would throw the first 3-4 weeks out the window. It’s such a small sample size and there’s too many other factors involved this early. Statistically speaking, we’ve won 3-4 games since 2013, how can I make that relevant to this argument? I’m not saying we can’t win and there are some seemingly equal match ups. You asked for our opinions, I gave you mine and now you keep arguing why I’m wrong (which I hope I am and very well may be). But you can stop replying because I’m not going to keep going back and forth. You asked, I gave you my reasons, that’s it. Hopefully you’re right, I’m not 100% convinced we’ll lose but this is a game I may throw $2-300 on the cowboys because I think they’ll win and if they do then at least I get something out of it and if they don’t I will be ecstatic to lose my money. *Normally I only do live bets so I’ll probably wait until after the first few series. *BTW obviously Vegas agrees with you even though the line moved from Giants -3.5 to -1 which is pretty significant You can believe what you want. Points, Record and Hard Numbers do not lie. A team is what its output is. There is no talking head or self-proclaimed expert that can convince me otherwise. "You suck until you don't" :Gametime Dallas has shown nothing this season that they are in anyway better than the Giants. Fine. You win and hopefully the Giants do too. P.S Statistically the Lions have the 4th best offense in the league, which is better than the Chiefs and is significantly better than the 7th worst offense in the league, the LA Rams. I guess our defense stopping the Lions would be more significant than stopping Mahomes and the Chiefs. I’ll be damned, never would have thought that until I read you post. Oh yeah, the cowboys have the 6th best defense. The Titans have the 7th WORST defense and it took us a 2 point conversion to beat them after being shut out in the first half. We can play this game all day but I really am done now.
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Post by TEM on Sept 24, 2022 11:46:43 GMT -5
You can believe what you want. Points, Record and Hard Numbers do not lie. A team is what its output is. There is no talking head or self-proclaimed expert that can convince me otherwise. "You suck until you don't" :Gametime Dallas has shown nothing this season that they are in anyway better than the Giants. Fine. You win and hopefully the Giants do too. P.S Statistically the Lions have the 4th best offense in the league, which is better than the Chiefs and is significantly better than the 7th worst offense in the league, the LA Rams. I guess our defense stopping the Lions would be more significant than stopping Mahomes and the Chiefs. I’ll be damned, never would have thought that until I read you post. Oh yeah, the cowboys have the 6th best defense. The Titans have the 7th WORST defense and it took us a 2 point conversion to beat them after being shut out in the first half. We can play this game all day but I really am done now. By your narrative Cincy is a good team because they were last year. The lions with their 71 points for, are a bad team because they should be. That how fans think and talking heads think. Where is the power ranking logic that places Cincinatti at number 12 in the league?
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Post by vinnie on Sept 24, 2022 11:55:46 GMT -5
Fine. You win and hopefully the Giants do too. P.S Statistically the Lions have the 4th best offense in the league, which is better than the Chiefs and is significantly better than the 7th worst offense in the league, the LA Rams. I guess our defense stopping the Lions would be more significant than stopping Mahomes and the Chiefs. I’ll be damned, never would have thought that until I read you post. Oh yeah, the cowboys have the 6th best defense. The Titans have the 7th WORST defense and it took us a 2 point conversion to beat them after being shut out in the first half. We can play this game all day but I really am done now. By your narrative Cincy is a good team because they were last year. The lions with their 71 points for, are a bad team because they should be. That how fans think and talking heads think. Where is the power ranking logic that places Cincinatti at number 12 in the league? Incorrect. By your narrative the Giants are a good team because they’re 2-0.
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Post by TEM on Sept 24, 2022 11:59:49 GMT -5
By your narrative Cincy is a good team because they were last year. The lions with their 71 points for, are a bad team because they should be. That how fans think and talking heads think. Where is the power ranking logic that places Cincinatti at number 12 in the league? Incorrect. By your narrative the Giants are a good team because they’re 2-0. Now record does not matter? Ok I guess. You already stated " I don’t care what the points say" Now you are implying record does not matter too. So what matters if it is not points or record?
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Post by vinnie on Sept 24, 2022 12:11:55 GMT -5
Incorrect. By your narrative the Giants are a good team because they’re 2-0. So now record does not matter? Ok I guess. Wow, you really are too caught up in stats. So Giants are good because they are 2-0. Had Giants not converted 2 point conversion then they would be ok. Had the Panthers not handed the Giants a W and Gano not hit a 57 yard FG than the Giants would be bad. That’s what’s funny, I told you I don’t mind stats, but there are outlying factors that you have to take into consideration which you refuse to do. You remind me of the cowboys fans and media who started yelling about how good they were a few years ago when they started off 3-0 by beating the likes of Miami, Washington, and us. Since it was the first 3 games of the season there weren’t enough stats to get a good read on any teams but had you watched the games you would see how glaringly obvious it was that Miami, Washington and NY sucked balls. Sure, dallas looked good and their fans were throwing their stats around to back it up but they clearly ignored the opposing teams product on the field. They went on to lose their next 3 games and Miami, NY and Washington ended up being 3 of the 5 worst teams in the league. Keep going on though…
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Post by vinnie on Sept 24, 2022 12:15:32 GMT -5
Incorrect. By your narrative the Giants are a good team because they’re 2-0. Now record does not matter? Ok I guess. You already stated " I don’t care what the points say" Now you are implying record does not matter too. So what matters if it is not points or record? Points obviously matter, so do injuries, so does the fact that it was the first game of the season, so does how the defense played in relation to field position, so do turnovers. All you do is look at one aspect. Giants score more points than Tampa against cowboys means Giants offense > Tampa offense. Ridiculous.
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Post by Roswell on Sept 24, 2022 12:30:17 GMT -5
Throw out all of the historic numbers.
The Giants have a huge coaching edge.
Cooper Rush is going to see people from all angles. First game for him on the road under the big lights vs a pressure defense that is playing with a lot of confidence.
I really believe that this game will show the NFL that the Giant D is for real.
Dallas Oline is not what it used to be. Dallas Dline has trouble vs the run.
Giants 20 Cowboys 13
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Post by TEM on Sept 24, 2022 12:30:37 GMT -5
Now record does not matter? Ok I guess. You already stated " I don’t care what the points say" Now you are implying record does not matter too. So what matters if it is not points or record? Points obviously matter, so do injuries, so does the fact that it was the first game of the season, so does how the defense played in relation to field position, so do turnovers. All you do is look at one aspect. Giants score more points than Tampa against cowboys means Giants offense > Tampa offense. Ridiculous. The Giant scored 40 points Tamp have scored 39 . The Giant have 659 yards of total offense. Tampa has 607 Explain why Tamp's offense is better than the Giants this year? Here is difference between you and I. I am unbiased and let the numbers speak for themself. This whole fan / talking head narrative that this year's outcome is based upon unquantifiable opinion that the previous season will be a reflection of it. Is seldom a scale that holds merit. The Bengals being ranked #12 is a direct correlation of that fandom condition.
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Post by vinnie on Sept 24, 2022 12:45:03 GMT -5
Points obviously matter, so do injuries, so does the fact that it was the first game of the season, so does how the defense played in relation to field position, so do turnovers. All you do is look at one aspect. Giants score more points than Tampa against cowboys means Giants offense > Tampa offense. Ridiculous. The Giant scored 40 points Tamp have scored 39 . The Giant have 659 yards of total offense. Tampa has 607 Explain why Tamp's offense is better than the Giants this year? he difference between you and I is . I am unbiased and let the numbers speak for themself. This whole fan / talking head narrative that this year's outcome is based upon unquantifiable opinion that the previous season will be a reflection of it. The Bengals being ranked #12 is a direct correlation of that fandom condition. Bias has nothing to do with it. You base your opinions SOLELY on a piece of paper with numbers. I base mine on numbers AND watching the games WHILE taking other factors into consideration. Would you like to make a little bet right now? The Jets have the 8th best offense right now based on average yards per game. According to you, there are 24 teams in the league that have worse offenses than the Jets. Sure, you can say “right now” that’s what the numbers say so it must be true. I’ll bet you $500 they won’t even be in the top 10 at the end of the year. They’re that good, they’re the 8th best right now, they HAVE to be that good, right?
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Post by TEM on Sept 24, 2022 13:00:59 GMT -5
The Giant scored 40 points Tamp have scored 39 . The Giant have 659 yards of total offense. Tampa has 607 Explain why Tamp's offense is better than the Giants this year? he difference between you and I is . I am unbiased and let the numbers speak for themself. This whole fan / talking head narrative that this year's outcome is based upon unquantifiable opinion that the previous season will be a reflection of it. The Bengals being ranked #12 is a direct correlation of that fandom condition. Bias has nothing to do with it. You base your opinions SOLELY on a piece of paper with numbers. I base mine on numbers AND watching the games WHILE taking other factors into consideration. Would you like to make a little bet right now? The Jets have the 8th best offense right now based on average yards per game. According to you, there are 24 teams in the league that have worse offenses than the Jets. Sure, you can say “right now” that’s what the numbers say so it must be true. I’ll bet you $500 they won’t even be in the top 10 at the end of the year. They’re that good, they’re the 8th best right now, they HAVE to be that good, right? I do not bet on sports. It is an idiots bet. The odds and parameters chance constantly. Not only that, but the odds are also created by those who want to separate you from your money the easiest way possible. It is not like dice or a roulette where the odds static for each bet. The odds for snake eyes are 36 to 1 on every roll. 6 sides of a die. 2 dice . 1:1 has one chance to come up in a roll. There is no guy in the background proclaiming on this roll the odds are going to be 25 to 1. Would you with no odds on a sports book site straight up on the Jets / Bengles. Bet on the Bengals to beat the Jets. You claim you watch . Do you have faith the Bengals with what you have seen from them can beat the Jets. The Average Casino takes in 2 million a day with static odds. Fan duel last year averaged 11.5 million a day. Betting on sports is an idiots bet.
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Post by vinnie on Sept 24, 2022 13:26:54 GMT -5
Bias has nothing to do with it. You base your opinions SOLELY on a piece of paper with numbers. I base mine on numbers AND watching the games WHILE taking other factors into consideration. Would you like to make a little bet right now? The Jets have the 8th best offense right now based on average yards per game. According to you, there are 24 teams in the league that have worse offenses than the Jets. Sure, you can say “right now” that’s what the numbers say so it must be true. I’ll bet you $500 they won’t even be in the top 10 at the end of the year. They’re that good, they’re the 8th best right now, they HAVE to be that good, right? I do not bet on sports. It is an idiots bet. The odds and parameters chance constantly. Not only that, but the odds are also created by those who want to separate you from your money the easiest way possible. It is not like dice or a roulette where the odds static for each bet. The odds for snake eyes are 36 to 1 on every roll. 6 sides of a die. 2 dice . 1:1 has one chance to come up in a roll. There is no guy in the background proclaiming on this roll the odds are going to be 25 to 1. Would you with no odds on a sports book site straight up on the Jets / Bengles. Bet on the Bengals to beat the Jets. It all depends, I’d have to do more research. For example, if I just looked at a piece of paper to base my decisions on the cowboys offense then I wouldn’t know Dak was out the 2nd game and I wouldn’t know that Cooper Rush almost threw 5 picks if I didn’t see it for myself. If I just based my judgements on a piece of paper and didn’t think we were getting Azeez and Thibs back or that Leo will probably be out then my opinion of our defense this week vs last week would be different. If the cowboys man handled the eagles O line compared to Cincy’s O line, I would think much differently of their defense. The Bills are missing ~4 starters on defense this week, if I just based my opinions on stats then I would expect their defense to be as good as they were last week but hypothetically they shouldn’t be which is why the line came down quite a bit I believe. If I just based my opinion of the Giants offense based on numbers and didn’t see the Giants squander 2 turnovers within the 50 of Carolinas end zone then my opinion of the offense would be different. For the 100th time, I consider this still very early in the season with several factors involved. Maybe TB’s first game wasn’t good as it could be because Brady missed half of training camp. Maybe the fact that Burrow has been sacked ~13 times in 2 games is a testament to the Pitt and Dallas defense or maybe it’s because their O line is really that bad and Burrow holds on to the ball too long. Maybe the cowboys defense is fools gold based on a game or two (don’t think so). Point being, I’m well aware the Giants “could” win, I wouldn’t be shocked at this point in the season but based on what I’ve seen so far, Im giving the edge to dallas but for all I know Thibs and Azeez could come back and be absolute game wreckers which is why I usually wait for a few series in any game I bet on before I actually place my bet. Numbers don’t tell the entire story. End of story.
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Post by TEM on Sept 24, 2022 13:37:48 GMT -5
I do not bet on sports. It is an idiots bet. The odds and parameters chance constantly. Not only that, but the odds are also created by those who want to separate you from your money the easiest way possible. It is not like dice or a roulette where the odds static for each bet. The odds for snake eyes are 36 to 1 on every roll. 6 sides of a die. 2 dice . 1:1 has one chance to come up in a roll. There is no guy in the background proclaiming on this roll the odds are going to be 25 to 1. Would you with no odds on a sports book site straight up on the Jets / Bengles. Bet on the Bengals to beat the Jets. It all depends, I’d have to do more research. For example, if I just looked at a piece of paper to base my decisions on the cowboys offense then I wouldn’t know Dak was out the 2nd game and I wouldn’t know that Cooper Rush almost threw 5 picks if I didn’t see it for myself. If I just based my judgements on a piece of paper and didn’t think we were getting Azeez and Thibs back or that Leo will probably be out then my opinion of our defense this week vs last week would be different. If the cowboys man handled the eagles O line compared to Cincy’s O line, I would think much differently of their defense. The Bills are missing ~4 starters on defense this week, if I just based my opinions on stats then I would expect their defense to be as good as they were last week but hypothetically they shouldn’t be which is why the line came down quite a bit I believe. If I just based my opinion of the Giants offense based on numbers and didn’t see the Giants squander 2 turnovers within the 50 of Carolinas end zone then my opinion of the offense would be different. For the 100th time, I consider this still very early in the season with several factors involved. Maybe TB’s first game wasn’t good as it could be because Brady missed half of training camp. Maybe the fact that Burrow has been sacked ~13 times in 2 games is a testament to the Pitt and Dallas defense or maybe it’s because their O line is really that bad and Burrow holds on to the ball too long. Maybe the cowboys defense is fools gold based on a game or two (don’t think so). Point being, I’m well aware the Giants “could” win, I wouldn’t be shocked at this point in the season but based on what I’ve seen so far, Im giving the edge to dallas but for all I know Thibs and Azeez could come back and be absolute game wreckers which is why I usually wait for a few series in any game I bet on before I actually place my bet. Numbers don’t tell the entire story. End of story. I am not arguing any of those point. These are fact as of today Dallas, Cincinatti, the Colts. New England and Raiders have regressed. Philly and the Bills look really good. (Improved good) KC LAC LAR BALT are the same. The Giants, Jets, Houston and the Lions all looked like they have improved. GB AZ Miami San Fran . Not sure they look good and bad at times.
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Post by vinnie on Sept 24, 2022 13:42:36 GMT -5
Bias has nothing to do with it. You base your opinions SOLELY on a piece of paper with numbers. I base mine on numbers AND watching the games WHILE taking other factors into consideration. Would you like to make a little bet right now? The Jets have the 8th best offense right now based on average yards per game. According to you, there are 24 teams in the league that have worse offenses than the Jets. Sure, you can say “right now” that’s what the numbers say so it must be true. I’ll bet you $500 they won’t even be in the top 10 at the end of the year. They’re that good, they’re the 8th best right now, they HAVE to be that good, right? I do not bet on sports. It is an idiots bet. The odds and parameters chance constantly. Not only that, but the odds are also created by those who want to separate you from your money the easiest way possible. It is not like dice or a roulette where the odds static for each bet. The odds for snake eyes are 36 to 1 on every roll. 6 sides of a die. 2 dice . 1:1 has one chance to come up in a roll. There is no guy in the background proclaiming on this roll the odds are going to be 25 to 1. Would you with no odds on a sports book site straight up on the Jets / Bengles. Bet on the Bengals to beat the Jets. You claim you watch . Do you have faith the Bengals with what you have seen from them can beat the Jets. The Average Casino takes in 2 million a day with static odds. Fan duel last year averaged 11.5 million a day. Betting on sports is an idiots bet. Thanks again for your stats but my bank account disagrees and yes I’m well aware of gambling stats. Chances are, you’re closer to being right than I am based on the line. And the more I thought about it, I wouldn’t touch the Bengals for or against until I see what that O line looks like over the next few weeks (which O won’t be watching anyways). If they continue to be as bad as they have I would have a hard time putting money on them against anyone. 13 sacks in 2 games (some are probably due to Burrow).
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Turbo
Special Teams
Posts: 258
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Post by Turbo on Sept 24, 2022 13:51:35 GMT -5
Points obviously matter, so do injuries, so does the fact that it was the first game of the season, so does how the defense played in relation to field position, so do turnovers. All you do is look at one aspect. Giants score more points than Tampa against cowboys means Giants offense > Tampa offense. Ridiculous. The Giant scored 40 points Tamp have scored 39 . The Giant have 659 yards of total offense. Tampa has 607 Explain why Tamp's offense is better than the Giants this year? Here is difference between you and I. I am unbiased and let the numbers speak for themself. This whole fan / talking head narrative that this year's outcome is based upon unquantifiable opinion that the previous season will be a reflection of it. Is seldom a scale that holds merit. The Bengals being ranked #12 is a direct correlation of that fandom condition. I will say that, based solely on numbers, the likelihood of the FGs we made, the drive to win, and the 2 point conversion success were all very, very low. We overcame them, and perhaps it was luck, maybe it was skill, maybe it was any number of things. I agree with you that numbers don’t lie, but I can also agree with Vinnie that there are other outside factors to consider, an example being that home field often moves the betting line outside of pure current season stats. I think we can win this, but I’m not so positive about it that I’m wavering the rent money.
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Post by krappdetector on Sept 24, 2022 13:54:23 GMT -5
Just listened to Coach Daboll's Fri presser and there's some good news. He commented on the fact that the 'boys have held Brady and Burrow to under 200 yards passing and 20 pts. So there should be no impact to Daniel's game!
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Post by TEM on Sept 24, 2022 13:56:00 GMT -5
The Giant scored 40 points Tamp have scored 39 . The Giant have 659 yards of total offense. Tampa has 607 Explain why Tamp's offense is better than the Giants this year? Here is difference between you and I. I am unbiased and let the numbers speak for themself. This whole fan / talking head narrative that this year's outcome is based upon unquantifiable opinion that the previous season will be a reflection of it. Is seldom a scale that holds merit. The Bengals being ranked #12 is a direct correlation of that fandom condition. I will say that, based solely on numbers, the likelihood of the FGs we made, the drive to win, and the 2 point conversion success were all very, very low. We overcame them, and perhaps it was luck, maybe it was skill, maybe it was any number of things. I agree with you that numbers don’t lie, but I can also agree with Vinnie that there are other outside factors to consider, an example being that home field often moves the betting line outside of pure current season stats. I think we can win this, but I’m not so positive about it that I’m wavering the rent money. Football is not static . In the end the numbers tell a team's success. Points and record. Truly it is PPD (points per drive) in ratio to PPD the defense allows.
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Post by vinnie on Sept 24, 2022 13:57:24 GMT -5
It all depends, I’d have to do more research. For example, if I just looked at a piece of paper to base my decisions on the cowboys offense then I wouldn’t know Dak was out the 2nd game and I wouldn’t know that Cooper Rush almost threw 5 picks if I didn’t see it for myself. If I just based my judgements on a piece of paper and didn’t think we were getting Azeez and Thibs back or that Leo will probably be out then my opinion of our defense this week vs last week would be different. If the cowboys man handled the eagles O line compared to Cincy’s O line, I would think much differently of their defense. The Bills are missing ~4 starters on defense this week, if I just based my opinions on stats then I would expect their defense to be as good as they were last week but hypothetically they shouldn’t be which is why the line came down quite a bit I believe. If I just based my opinion of the Giants offense based on numbers and didn’t see the Giants squander 2 turnovers within the 50 of Carolinas end zone then my opinion of the offense would be different. For the 100th time, I consider this still very early in the season with several factors involved. Maybe TB’s first game wasn’t good as it could be because Brady missed half of training camp. Maybe the fact that Burrow has been sacked ~13 times in 2 games is a testament to the Pitt and Dallas defense or maybe it’s because their O line is really that bad and Burrow holds on to the ball too long. Maybe the cowboys defense is fools gold based on a game or two (don’t think so). Point being, I’m well aware the Giants “could” win, I wouldn’t be shocked at this point in the season but based on what I’ve seen so far, Im giving the edge to dallas but for all I know Thibs and Azeez could come back and be absolute game wreckers which is why I usually wait for a few series in any game I bet on before I actually place my bet. Numbers don’t tell the entire story. End of story. I am not arguing any of those point. These are fact as of today Dallas, Cincinatti, the Colts. New England and Raiders have regressed. Philly and the Bills look really good. (Improved good) KC LAC LAR BALT are the same. The Giants, Jets, Houston and the Lions all looked like they have improved. GB AZ Miami San Fran . Not sure they look good and bad at times. They have seemingly regressed offensively but it’s the exact opposite defensively. Plus I believe they’re getting Gallup back (like Thibs and Azeez, it remains to be seen how much playing time he’ll get) and if he’s even 80%, that’s better than what they’ve had and will life easier for Lamb. That’s why I’m saying you absolutely may be right, too much to take into consideration for this game and there are a lot of unknowns. My main decision is basing it off of their defense vs our offense but hey, if we get Thibs and Azeez back then that could be a literal game changer. If Rush regresses or continues throwing those near picks and we snag one then that’s huge. It very well may be a slug fest, two great DC’s going against Jones and a back up QB. We’ll just have to wait and see. I don’t consider 7-10 points a blow out and as I just mentioned, one turnover and that could be the difference between us winning and losing. There’s little doubt their defense will be all over Jones IMO and they have better receivers IMO, so it becomes how effective will our defense be vs their back up QB and WR’s? At least that’s how I see it.
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Post by vinnie on Sept 24, 2022 14:03:10 GMT -5
Just listened to Coach Daboll's Fri presser and there's some good news. He commented on the fact that the 'boys have held Brady and Burrow to under 200 yards passing and 20 pts. So there should be no impact to Daniel's game! Well we did hold Baker Mayfield to 145 yards (even though he missed more than a few wide open receivers) and Ryan Tannehill with a bunch of no name receivers to 266 yards so…yay? These will be the best receiver trio we’ve against if Gallup plays but we are also going against a 5 year back up QB with 2 starts under his belt so there’s that. Who the **** knows what will happen. I’m not touching this game (gambling wise) until each team gets the ball a couple of times.
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Post by vinnie on Sept 24, 2022 14:05:17 GMT -5
I will say that, based solely on numbers, the likelihood of the FGs we made, the drive to win, and the 2 point conversion success were all very, very low. We overcame them, and perhaps it was luck, maybe it was skill, maybe it was any number of things. I agree with you that numbers don’t lie, but I can also agree with Vinnie that there are other outside factors to consider, an example being that home field often moves the betting line outside of pure current season stats. I think we can win this, but I’m not so positive about it that I’m wavering the rent money. Football is not static . In the end the numbers tell a team's success. Points and record. Truly it is PPD (points per drive) in ratio to PPD the defense allows. So based on numbers, I’m assuming you think Jones is the worst QB in the league with 3 years or more starting?
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Post by TEM on Sept 24, 2022 14:19:58 GMT -5
Football is not static . In the end the numbers tell a team's success. Points and record. Truly it is PPD (points per drive) in ratio to PPD the defense allows. So based on numbers, I’m assuming you think Jones is the worst QB in the league with 3 years or more starting? Player numbers are for marketing. Players are always countered with other players. Football is a team sport. When I do research, it is hard team numbers that conclude with discernable patterns for success. Did you not look at or scrutinize my published results. Being a gambler, I would have thought you would have wanted to see it. Not a complete model of predictability. I am working on other aspects that I can add to it. In a few years. I believe I can be 60%+ on the record for each team before the season starts.
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Post by vinnie on Sept 24, 2022 14:43:16 GMT -5
So based on numbers, I’m assuming you think Jones is the worst QB in the league with 3 years or more starting? Player numbers are for marketing. Players are always countered with other players. Football is a team sport. When I do research, it is hard team numbers that conclude with discernable patterns for success. Did you not look at or scrutinize my published results. Being a gambler, I would have thought you would have wanted to see it. Not a complete model of predictability. I am working on other aspects that I can add to it. In a few years. I believe I can be 60%+ on the record for each team before the season starts. Cool, I did not see it. Can you provide a link please? Thanks in advance.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 24, 2022 15:25:42 GMT -5
My take is the Cows as Vinnie would say have a lot of talent on both sides of the ball. On offense they have a lot of injuries so yes they look like they took a step back, That step is more then likely temporary they are getting 2 back this week in Gallup and Shultz, The defense is good and the Giants are coming at them with a WR core with # 3s and# 4s at WR and some young OLs that are gonna be good but still are not up to NFL speed. Of course the Giants have a shot they have good coaching and guys are getting better every week. But theses 2 franchises are in 2 different places right now. The 2-0 start is great and hopefully they keep beating the teams they are evenly matched with and beat a few they shouldn't, this is a week where they need to beat a team that has them outmanned especially having there best defender out in Williams.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Sept 24, 2022 16:25:08 GMT -5
And again, we’re 3 weeks in, I don’t put much stock into any of that. Our offense is better than Tampa? Lol, ok, we’ll see where that’s at in a month or two. I like stats (for the most part) but I would throw the first 3-4 weeks out the window. It’s such a small sample size and there’s too many other factors involved this early. Statistically speaking, we’ve won 3-4 games since 2013, how can I make that relevant to this argument? I’m not saying we can’t win and there are some seemingly equal match ups. You asked for our opinions, I gave you mine and now you keep arguing why I’m wrong (which I hope I am and very well may be). But you can stop replying because I’m not going to keep going back and forth. You asked, I gave you my reasons, that’s it. Hopefully you’re right, I’m not 100% convinced we’ll lose but this is a game I may throw $2-300 on the cowboys because I think they’ll win and if they do then at least I get something out of it and if they don’t I will be ecstatic to lose my money. *Normally I only do live bets so I’ll probably wait until after the first few series. *BTW obviously Vegas agrees with you even though the line moved from Giants -3.5 to -1 which is pretty significant You can believe what you want. Points, Record and Hard Numbers do not lie. A team is what its output is. There is no talking head or self-proclaimed expert that can convince me otherwise. "You suck until you don't" :Gametime Dallas has shown nothing this season that they are in anyway better than the Giants. You make a good point. Last season we were 0-3. Many of us brought up that we easily could be 2-1 after leading 2 games in the last minute. We were told (Bill Parcells line) that we are what our record says. So now that we are 2-0 we are told that we are not what our record says we are? Why the change?
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Post by kerryisdaman on Sept 24, 2022 16:28:45 GMT -5
The Giant scored 40 points Tamp have scored 39 . The Giant have 659 yards of total offense. Tampa has 607 Explain why Tamp's offense is better than the Giants this year? Here is difference between you and I. I am unbiased and let the numbers speak for themself. This whole fan / talking head narrative that this year's outcome is based upon unquantifiable opinion that the previous season will be a reflection of it. Is seldom a scale that holds merit. The Bengals being ranked #12 is a direct correlation of that fandom condition. I will say that, based solely on numbers, the likelihood of the FGs we made, the drive to win, and the 2 point conversion success were all very, very low. We overcame them, and perhaps it was luck, maybe it was skill, maybe it was any number of things. I agree with you that numbers don’t lie, but I can also agree with Vinnie that there are other outside factors to consider, an example being that home field often moves the betting line outside of pure current season stats. I think we can win this, but I’m not so positive about it that I’m wavering the rent money. Interesting how people bring up the missed 47 yard FG but do not bring up our own missed extra point. Which was more likely?
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Post by TEM on Sept 24, 2022 17:01:35 GMT -5
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Post by TEM on Sept 24, 2022 17:03:35 GMT -5
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Post by vinnie on Sept 24, 2022 17:18:02 GMT -5
You can believe what you want. Points, Record and Hard Numbers do not lie. A team is what its output is. There is no talking head or self-proclaimed expert that can convince me otherwise. "You suck until you don't" :Gametime Dallas has shown nothing this season that they are in anyway better than the Giants. You make a good point. Last season we were 0-3. Many of us brought up that we easily could be 2-1 after leading 2 games in the last minute. We were told (Bill Parcells line) that we are what our record says. So now that we are 2-0 we are told that we are not what our record says we are? Why the change? Because you could tell that even if we won those 2 games that we still sucked? You’re record says what you are and we are the worst 2-0 team in the league and a pretty bad team altogether. Not horrible but not good, not even average. You could tell watching last year that we were horrible, a lot of that was on the coaches, this year we don’t look horrible but we sure as hell don’t look good. Most people would assume a 2-0 team is good, we’re not. Could we get better? I assume most teams can get better. We’ve been missing 2-3 of our alleged best play makers on offense and defense so who knows what could happen. I personally just don’t think this team is ready to compete with the top tier teams in the league. I think we can beat a good portion of the bottom feeders and will win an occasional game against a team like the cows. Last year every win was damn near a surprise.
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Post by vinnie on Sept 24, 2022 17:25:30 GMT -5
I will say that, based solely on numbers, the likelihood of the FGs we made, the drive to win, and the 2 point conversion success were all very, very low. We overcame them, and perhaps it was luck, maybe it was skill, maybe it was any number of things. I agree with you that numbers don’t lie, but I can also agree with Vinnie that there are other outside factors to consider, an example being that home field often moves the betting line outside of pure current season stats. I think we can win this, but I’m not so positive about it that I’m wavering the rent money. Interesting how people bring up the missed 47 yard FG but do not bring up our own missed extra point. Which was more likely? How likely is it a team will turn over the ball two times in a row within their own 50, once on the opening kick off and once on their first possession of the game? How often will a starting QB miss wide open receivers as much as Baker did? Seemed like a lot to me. What’s been the percentage league wide of successful 2 point conversions? This I’d really want to know, TEM can you get on this? It just seems like we’ve needed an inordinate amount of things to go our way to win these games.
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miggs
Starter
Posts: 4,178
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Post by miggs on Sept 24, 2022 18:30:45 GMT -5
Giants have good chance to win in Giants offense makes few mistakes. Sacks has cost them from scoring more points.
As the Giants gave up 4 sacks in each of it's last two games.
If Jones is sacked far less the Giants should have more sustained drives and that should result in the Giants scoring far more points than they have in each of first two games.
Sacks will be reduced if any of the following three things occur:1) If offensive line is better due to insertion of new free agents who provide better protection or 2) Jones feeling the pressure checks down to close receiver or 3) Jones throws the ball out of bounds.
Always fear other Giants mistakes that they have largely avoided to date. But Cowboys will make mistakes as well. That's the nature of sports.Fans mistakenly demand perfection.
As for the defense, the Giants need to keep improving on what they've been doing. The addition of Thibs and Ojulari should help.
Rush is the wild card as he's better than both the Titan and Carolina QBs.
Facing two good running backs will also be a challenge. Wink's Ravens shut them down two year's ago, can this Giants team do the same?
We'll see. As I always say, "In Wink I trust."
For me, I want to see if the Giants have better offensive and defensive schemes and can execute them well. In the-season i've said they do, but some plays and play-calling have been head-scratchers. Hope that's corrected.
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Post by Fletch842 on Sept 24, 2022 18:40:01 GMT -5
sadly this game is on Rosh Hashanah (Jewish New Year) so I'll be watching this one on a bit of tape delay. For once it's good that my folks are getting older as we eat much earlier now, so I should catch up to live pretty quickly. I’m beginning to prefer the delayed start so I can skip the commercials. The technology we have in 5783 is amazing! that is a huge benefit. But I really enjoy the back and forth on the game day thread...
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