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Post by TCHOF on Oct 9, 2018 14:13:49 GMT -5
Surprised that no one wanted to trade for him 🙄 I guess the red font doesn't work. Thought that the rolling eyes emoji was enough.....
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Post by GameTime on Oct 9, 2018 14:26:06 GMT -5
Some team will land him...put him at guard...and he'll be decent. with his atrocious footwork he wont even be good at that. But I wish well regardless
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Post by IrishMike on Oct 9, 2018 14:26:27 GMT -5
I defended him too and rooted for him and hoped for the best. Moving on is all that we can do. Even if he wasn't skilled he could have had heart and desire and a fire and been a good teammate. Him getting released week 5 seems to m that he wasn't even a good teammate. Surprised that no one wanted to trade for him 🙄 I was Sunday at 4:59 and they knew our garage sale ended at 5. Just have to wait for him to be put out on the curb.
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Post by nygiantsfan1029 on Oct 9, 2018 14:33:07 GMT -5
I have seen this person on forums going back to the ESPN forums All he wants is coaches,front offices,players to be fired or cut no matter what.After they won their last super bowl he was bitching that the Giants blew it because they could have traded Eli before the season and now they are stuck with him and wanted Reese immediately fired along with Coughlin. Trust me if he lasts here(usually him and all of his other accounts usually get banned after a while)he will want the entire regime fired every year even after they do so. Wait till he gets abusive with posters. You know don’t get angry with these people. I post my views and leave it at that. I gotta be honest I find it amusing to read what the trolls say and the replies back. That is just me
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Post by Jomo on Oct 9, 2018 14:37:13 GMT -5
Was Flowers that bad at the end? and by the end I mean starting in the 2nd half of last season. Im gonna have rocks thrown at me, and believe me im fine with him gone cause i think by now hes just bad damn luck, but wasnt he kinda starting to come around? there were worse performances than him individually. Hell i know the game he karate kicked the guy this year doesnt help my inquiry lol. again im relieved the "era" of flowers is over, but i didnt think he was quite as awful as made out to be lately, and had notable improvement. *and thus what tiny decent standing JediGiant had on the boards went down in flames* I kinda agree with this,but then again he was also quite toxic. You could be a good lineman but if you dont have a relationship with the entire unit it could destroy it. Just look how much more confident Omamaeh looks now(also credit Greco). You literally have to trust the guy next to you .........and so the question needs to be asked.
Let me digress first.
I have never seen a gamer go from great team guy to toxic, especially in a few short years. Every kid I coached over the last 20 years grew into the same young man he was when he was a 10-16 years old. Some were light hearted and just fun, some serious, some studious, some were leaders and a few were a handful to keep focused and some were a mess. They are all pretty much the same today. If anything the more challenging ones have improved and matured but the best of the leaders remain such today.
This was a first round pick and in my opinion we should have rooted that out before the draft. Everything doesn't and should not pivot on measurables. I know there isn't the time to figure this all out with a 7th rounder but in the first round all you need to do is get to a coach, a trainer, the team captain or a few well know leaders on that team to find out what made Flowers tick.
You never, ever waste a top 3 pick on a toxic locker room, non team oriented guy. You just don't.
LOL, back to the question...
Why didn't we know about such a major character flaw before drafting him #1?
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 9, 2018 14:49:17 GMT -5
Next man up: Eli Manning If this hits the fan again Thursday night it’s time to stop asking why to bench Eli and start asking why we are playing him. He needs to be aware that his career is against the wall when he takes the field Thursday. He can physically save his career by performing until our season is off life support. Our season and him go hand In hand. If the games don’t matter he shouldn’t play. Thursday matters and if we win the Atlanta game will matter. If we lose Kyle Lauletta should take over in Georgia. i think DG reads your posts and instructs Shurmur to start Eli regardless, just to give you a reason to be i am honestly terrified for you once Eli is gone, I do not think you will have anything to live for based on his posts and threads alone DG is going to sign Eli to a 4 year extension at the end of the season.
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 9, 2018 14:51:11 GMT -5
I kinda agree with this,but then again he was also quite toxic. You could be a good lineman but if you dont have a relationship with the entire unit it could destroy it. Just look how much more confident Omamaeh looks now(also credit Greco). You literally have to trust the guy next to you .........and so the question needs to be asked.
Let me digress first.
I have never seen a gamer go from great team guy to toxic, especially in a few short years. Every kid I coached over the last 20 years grew into the same young man he was when he was a 10-16 years old. Some were light hearted and just fun, some serious, some studious, some were leaders and a few were a handful to keep focused and some were a mess. They are all pretty much the same today. If anything the more challenging ones have improved and matured but the best of the leaders remain such today.
This was a first round pick and in my opinion we should have rooted that out before the draft. Everything doesn't and should not pivot on measurables. I know there isn't the time to figure this all out with a 7th rounder but in the first round all you need to do is get to a coach, a trainer, the team captain or a few well know leaders on that team to find out what made Flowers tick.
You never, ever waste a top 3 pick on a toxic locker room, non team oriented guy. You just don't.
LOL, back to the question...
Why didn't we know about such a major character flaw before drafting him #1?
Agreed on all of this. But at the same time we see at least one if not 2 players taken in the 1st round have these kinds of issues that pretty much derail their career every year so it seems unfortunately it's very hard to weed out.Especially a kid who physically dominated at every level until the draft,sometimes you just dont know how a kid will handle adversity if all of a sudden they have to work at their craft a bit more than they were used to.And he seemed like a workaholic his first 2 years and the offseason of 2017 spending the entire time up here working out and training.I wonder if he just mentally gave up? I mean you do see players witb mental issues have them found and then you see them slip People forget DeMontre Moore was a borderline top 10 pick headed into the combine in the 2013 draft and he free fell into the 3rd where Reese decided to gamble on someone that had a 1st round grade for his skillsets.(and we know how that ended)so sometimes players get weeded out.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2018 14:57:30 GMT -5
I have seen this person on forums going back to the ESPN forums All he wants is coaches,front offices,players to be fired or cut no matter what.After they won their last super bowl he was bitching that the Giants blew it because they could have traded Eli before the season and now they are stuck with him and wanted Reese immediately fired along with Coughlin. Trust me if he lasts here(usually him and all of his other accounts usually get banned after a while)he will want the entire regime fired every year even after they do so. Wait till he gets abusive with posters. He sounds like a friendly person. LOL
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 9, 2018 14:59:59 GMT -5
I have seen this person on forums going back to the ESPN forums All he wants is coaches,front offices,players to be fired or cut no matter what.After they won their last super bowl he was bitching that the Giants blew it because they could have traded Eli before the season and now they are stuck with him and wanted Reese immediately fired along with Coughlin. Trust me if he lasts here(usually him and all of his other accounts usually get banned after a while)he will want the entire regime fired every year even after they do so. Wait till he gets abusive with posters. He sounds like a friendly person. LOL I'm thinking/hoping after today with a post made below and some mods openly warning him he has been castrated a bit.
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Post by Roswell on Oct 9, 2018 15:02:28 GMT -5
I kinda agree with this,but then again he was also quite toxic. You could be a good lineman but if you dont have a relationship with the entire unit it could destroy it. Just look how much more confident Omamaeh looks now(also credit Greco). You literally have to trust the guy next to you .........and so the question needs to be asked.
Let me digress first.
I have never seen a gamer go from great team guy to toxic, especially in a few short years. Every kid I coached over the last 20 years grew into the same young man he was when he was a 10-16 years old. Some were light hearted and just fun, some serious, some studious, some were leaders and a few were a handful to keep focused and some were a mess. They are all pretty much the same today. If anything the more challenging ones have improved and matured but the best of the leaders remain such today.
This was a first round pick and in my opinion we should have rooted that out before the draft. Everything doesn't and should not pivot on measurables. I know there isn't the time to figure this all out with a 7th rounder but in the first round all you need to do is get to a coach, a trainer, the team captain or a few well know leaders on that team to find out what made Flowers tick.
You never, ever waste a top 3 pick on a toxic locker room, non team oriented guy. You just don't.
LOL, back to the question...
Why didn't we know about such a major character flaw before drafting him #1?
I’m curious if he was the plan all along or did a few players that the Giants wanted get picked right before him a la Eli Apple?
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 9, 2018 15:03:33 GMT -5
I kinda agree with this,but then again he was also quite toxic. You could be a good lineman but if you dont have a relationship with the entire unit it could destroy it. Just look how much more confident Omamaeh looks now(also credit Greco). You literally have to trust the guy next to you .........and so the question needs to be asked.
Let me digress first.
I have never seen a gamer go from great team guy to toxic, especially in a few short years. Every kid I coached over the last 20 years grew into the same young man he was when he was a 10-16 years old. Some were light hearted and just fun, some serious, some studious, some were leaders and a few were a handful to keep focused and some were a mess. They are all pretty much the same today. If anything the more challenging ones have improved and matured but the best of the leaders remain such today.
This was a first round pick and in my opinion we should have rooted that out before the draft. Everything doesn't and should not pivot on measurables. I know there isn't the time to figure this all out with a 7th rounder but in the first round all you need to do is get to a coach, a trainer, the team captain or a few well know leaders on that team to find out what made Flowers tick.
You never, ever waste a top 3 pick on a toxic locker room, non team oriented guy. You just don't.
LOL, back to the question...
Why didn't we know about such a major character flaw before drafting him #1?
Good question. I heard that Le'al Collins was the guy they were going to draft. I heard that on draft day.....then that problem came up with his step father.
Kid got screwed actually and John Mara doesn't want to draft guys who aren't "clean". Is that JR? My opinion is no. But who really knows.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 9, 2018 15:07:57 GMT -5
I really think a huge part of FLowers failures was the coaching staff. HE had the size, the strength and the ability (at times), but just completely lacked the consistency and fundamentals. Now, I could be wrong and it could have been 100% on Flowers, but I cant give a pass to the coaches with the way the rest of our line looks most the time.
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 9, 2018 15:08:54 GMT -5
.........and so the question needs to be asked.
Let me digress first.
I have never seen a gamer go from great team guy to toxic, especially in a few short years. Every kid I coached over the last 20 years grew into the same young man he was when he was a 10-16 years old. Some were light hearted and just fun, some serious, some studious, some were leaders and a few were a handful to keep focused and some were a mess. They are all pretty much the same today. If anything the more challenging ones have improved and matured but the best of the leaders remain such today.
This was a first round pick and in my opinion we should have rooted that out before the draft. Everything doesn't and should not pivot on measurables. I know there isn't the time to figure this all out with a 7th rounder but in the first round all you need to do is get to a coach, a trainer, the team captain or a few well know leaders on that team to find out what made Flowers tick.
You never, ever waste a top 3 pick on a toxic locker room, non team oriented guy. You just don't.
LOL, back to the question...
Why didn't we know about such a major character flaw before drafting him #1?
I’m curious if he was the plan all along or did a few players that the Giants wanted get picked right before him a la Eli Apple? There have been rumblings that Flowers was in the mix as far back as the combine with La'el Collins,with Collins being the guy they favored until he had that legal issue pop up,and that left them with Flowers.(wonder how that would have turned out because Collins has been below average in Dallas,to the point they brought in that T from New England to push for that job and he sucked even worse,especially with the immediate injury to Beatty that started the entire negative chain reaction for that line) There are other rumblings that Coughlin had the man crush on Flowers and talked Reese into the pick(and seeing how Coughlin was so happy with that pick I could see that as well) I'm pretty sure O line was the target at 9
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 9, 2018 15:09:32 GMT -5
I really think a huge part of FLowers failures was the coaching staff. HE had the size, the strength and the ability (at times), but just completely lacked the consistency and fundamentals. Now, I could be wrong and it could have been 100% on Flowers, but I cant give a pass to the coaches with the way the rest of our line looks most the time. I think the kid AND the coaches have blame. but in general I agree with you on this.
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southerner
Starter
Bearer of Bad News
Posts: 4,216
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Post by southerner on Oct 9, 2018 15:11:45 GMT -5
So it is written, so it is done. Officially, Ereck Flowers is no longer a Giant. I’ve defended him, rooted for him to get it together and now can honestly say that I was wrong. He sucked. Happy trails Ereck. I hope you learn from this and find a career in the NFL but it wasn’t in the cards here in NY Another Reese mistake erased.....very few of his choices remain....or even remain in the NFL.
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 9, 2018 15:12:10 GMT -5
He sounds like a friendly person. LOL I'm thinking/hoping after today with a post made below and some mods openly warning him he has been castrated a bit. We aren't here to castrate anyone. We just want this to be an interesting and fun place to post our views on our team, no matter what they are.
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 9, 2018 15:16:25 GMT -5
So it is written, so it is done. Officially, Ereck Flowers is no longer a Giant. I’ve defended him, rooted for him to get it together and now can honestly say that I was wrong. He sucked. Happy trails Ereck. I hope you learn from this and find a career in the NFL but it wasn’t in the cards here in NY Another Reese mistake erased.....very few of his choices remain....or even remain in the NFL. Really? Odell Beckham, Linval Joseph, Dalvin Tomlinson, Landon Collins, Evan Engram, JPP, Prince Amukamara, Devon Kennard, Justin Pugh, Sterling Shepard,....just to name a few.......
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 9, 2018 15:17:48 GMT -5
At the end of the day let this entire "Error "(and we have to include the entire attempt at a o line rebuild)be a learning experience for the new regieme.Lord knows it's become much more difficult in this era to find o linemen,develop them and even keep part of it together if they do become good. 1.Get a system,have a defined system,stick with system.(acompmished ) 2.Get players that fit systems (in process) 3.Coach as best to your ability despite being castrated by the CBA to get entire line in cohesion (in process) 4.Keep adding recourses every year if possible to have depth,develop to replace free agents that are overpriced for the cap
So the team isn't forced to use high draft picks and spend 70 million on free agents.
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Post by snyder55 on Oct 9, 2018 16:00:48 GMT -5
I really think a huge part of FLowers failures was the coaching staff. HE had the size, the strength and the ability (at times), but just completely lacked the consistency and fundamentals. Now, I could be wrong and it could have been 100% on Flowers, but I cant give a pass to the coaches with the way the rest of our line looks most the time. I think the kid AND the coaches have blame. but in general I agree with you on this. sometimes I wonder if its the player or the coaches just aren't getting their message through, all players come from the same place and if they didn't have the talent they wouldn't be here.
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Post by ocgiant on Oct 9, 2018 16:18:12 GMT -5
I remember I felt if Sheriff was available we would have taken him... but Redskins selected him, so the Giants (JR) selected Flowers which was bad pick for first rounder from the get go... no doubt a monster of a man that I must admit I gave the benefit of the doubt. I am not sure if it was year one or two where I read on the old boards that it was known in camp that Flowers just was not "getting it" from a position standpoint whereas Pugh picked everything up. Still I believed in the first rounder... then last season with the attitude going south... I was done being fooled... then this year... by default... he would be moved to RT... with the same result. Funny no team wanted a trade for him... would you?
However, as someone mentioned maybe a fresh start will do him some good... now we have one less negative to discuss and the focus should not be Eli... 1) He is not going anywhere this season 2) No the answer is not the #2 or #3 behind him 3 to start 3) I saw more throws down field that opened things up some this past week... ideal nope... better yep... watchable yep so far for me...
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Post by scoostraw on Oct 9, 2018 16:26:12 GMT -5
Why didn't we know about such a major character flaw before drafting him #1? I remember on draft day in the forum people were saying things like "The word on him is that he has awful footwork, terrible technique and is uncoachable".
And then genius Reese picked him.
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 9, 2018 16:39:07 GMT -5
I remember I felt if Sheriff was available we would have taken him... but Redskins selected him, so the Giants (JR) selected Flowers which was bad pick for first rounder from the get go... no doubt a monster of a man that I must admit I gave the benefit of the doubt. I am not sure if it was year one or two where I read on the old boards that it was known in camp that Flowers just was not "getting it" from a position standpoint whereas Pugh picked everything up. Still I believed in the first rounder... then last season with the attitude going south... I was done being fooled... then this year... by default... he would be moved to RT... with the same result. Funny no team wanted a trade for him... would you? However, as someone mentioned maybe a fresh start will do him some good... now we have one less negative to discuss and the focus should not be Eli... 1) He is not going anywhere this season 2) No the answer is not the #2 or #3 behind him 3 to start 3) I saw more throws down field that opened things up some this past week... ideal nope... better yep... watchable yep so far for me... Dont think Scherff ever was the pick even if he fell to us.They wanted to move Pugh to guard and someone that could play RT.Sherff has tiny arms and rightfully was moved to guard by the skins midesason. I personally think Scherff was overdrafted just by what they could have had if they went Lennard at 5(their pick)because they could have had a really good guard in tbe 2nd (Ali Marpett)as well. Skins still have issues on the interior of their D line
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Post by Miked1958 on Oct 9, 2018 16:59:13 GMT -5
This thread title is absolute gold! We could not get a box of Cracker Jacks for that fool
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Post by Jomo on Oct 9, 2018 17:10:07 GMT -5
I’m curious if he was the plan all along or did a few players that the Giants wanted get picked right before him a la Eli Apple? There have been rumblings that Flowers was in the mix as far back as the combine with La'el Collins,with Collins being the guy they favored until he had that legal issue pop up,and that left them with Flowers.(wonder how that would have turned out because Collins has been below average in Dallas,to the point they brought in that T from New England to push for that job and he sucked even worse,especially with the immediate injury to Beatty that started the entire negative chain reaction for that line) There are other rumblings that Coughlin had the man crush on Flowers and talked Reese into the pick(and seeing how Coughlin was so happy with that pick I could see that as well) I'm pretty sure O line was the target at 9 TC did hang with him too long but so did Macadoodoo. That is why I always thought JR was the common thread/champion to stick with him. Who knows? I just think that in the 1st round, you should NEVER draft a kid who doesn't have the inner core of temperamental strength that is required of an NFL player. It is easy enough to research that definitively in the first and second round. After that with all the possibilities, it would be impractical. We blew this one. Whoever owns it, owns a bad one.
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Post by Jomo on Oct 9, 2018 17:13:11 GMT -5
Why didn't we know about such a major character flaw before drafting him #1? I remember on draft day in the forum people were saying things like "The word on him is that he has awful footwork, terrible technique and is uncoachable".
And then genius Reese picked him. Did he say "we were shocked and thrilled that he was still there on the board when it was our turn?"
All joking aside, I don't know who owns this one but whoever does (and you know who you are) it was a really bad screw up.
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desertash
Starter
The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane. - Mark Twain
Posts: 2,504
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Post by desertash on Oct 9, 2018 17:26:22 GMT -5
So it is written, so it is done. Officially, Ereck Flowers is no longer a Giant. I’ve defended him, rooted for him to get it together and now can honestly say that I was wrong. He sucked. Happy trails Ereck. I hope you learn from this and find a career in the NFL but it wasn’t in the cards here in NY I did the very same. He even looked the part his first 2 seasons as far as passion.
Got it wrong and regret it.
Time to move on, and the Giants will be light years better for it.
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 9, 2018 18:14:14 GMT -5
So it is written, so it is done. Officially, Ereck Flowers is no longer a Giant. I’ve defended him, rooted for him to get it together and now can honestly say that I was wrong. He sucked. Happy trails Ereck. I hope you learn from this and find a career in the NFL but it wasn’t in the cards here in NY I did the very same. He even looked the part his first 2 seasons as far as passion.
Got it wrong and regret it.
Time to move on, and the Giants will be light years better for it.
Yeah same here,even thought he showed improvement last year but the warning bell went off week 17 with that drama.. It is what it is
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Post by giantsforce on Oct 9, 2018 19:03:58 GMT -5
what if the offense averages less points per game with lauletta or tanney Then we'll be diarrhea versus being solid poop. LMAO! The best post of the year!
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Post by Jomo on Oct 9, 2018 19:11:12 GMT -5
.........and so the question needs to be asked.
Let me digress first.
I have never seen a gamer go from great team guy to toxic, especially in a few short years. Every kid I coached over the last 20 years grew into the same young man he was when he was a 10-16 years old. Some were light hearted and just fun, some serious, some studious, some were leaders and a few were a handful to keep focused and some were a mess. They are all pretty much the same today. If anything the more challenging ones have improved and matured but the best of the leaders remain such today.
This was a first round pick and in my opinion we should have rooted that out before the draft. Everything doesn't and should not pivot on measurables. I know there isn't the time to figure this all out with a 7th rounder but in the first round all you need to do is get to a coach, a trainer, the team captain or a few well know leaders on that team to find out what made Flowers tick.
You never, ever waste a top 3 pick on a toxic locker room, non team oriented guy. You just don't.
LOL, back to the question...
Why didn't we know about such a major character flaw before drafting him #1?
Good question. I heard that Le'al Collins was the guy they were going to draft. I heard that on draft day.....then that problem came up with his step father.
Kid got screwed actually and John Mara doesn't want to draft guys who aren't "clean". Is that JR? My opinion is no. But who really knows.
We don't know and I always talk about context. Wasn't that draft around the period where we were coming out of a series of drafts where we brought some questionable characters in? Austin, Hosely etc? JM might have leaned too hard into the FO with a "clean record" narrative and missed a couple of good ones who simply had youthful indiscretion. (big difference between that and a criminal inclination) Well, I hung on all the way into training camp this year. Not because I believed in him but because I was hoping that the mass inside that body could (miraculously) turn into a force on the field...…...and we didn't have many good option either. Onward!
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Post by Parademon1 on Oct 9, 2018 19:44:50 GMT -5
Supported him in his rookie yr but once I saw that he was turning into a human turnstile & getting Eli clobbered on a weekly basis, I gave up on the guy as just 300lbs of mindless, chewed bubble gum. He was the weakest link in the OL for the past few yrs. Notice how in 2 of the past 3 weeks since he was benched the Giants put up 27 & 31pts, that's not a coincidence. What amazes me even more about him is that he had the audacity to be pissed off when the Giants signed Solder to replace him at LT. That tells me that he really thought he was doing well at the position & no Giants coach had ever gave him reason to think otherwise. Are NFL coaches today scared to reprimand or chew out bad play by players today or what? Good riddance to another great pick by Reese. Probably the worst #1 pick in my 40yrs as a Giants fan.
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