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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 3, 2024 9:31:50 GMT -5
He is a great trooper of the football but if pressure is gonna affect him like Michigan did he will see that week in and week out in the NFL. That game it was him to start with he couldn't escape t make a throw and when he did he was shook and made inaccurate throws he can be come a good NFL QB but that needs to be fixed. I am guessing you haven't watched much of his games. I know that Walter football assessment from last year but this year against Oregon 2x, Texas he showed he can play with noise at his feet. Michigan had 229 rushing yards in one half!! We will leave it at this. We just evaluate QBs differently. I tell you one thing every game I watched he was making NFL level throws, while making defenses pay if they send and extra man . He shown the ability to read defenses and make quick decisions. He checks off a lot of boxes for me. I watched a ton of his games when the pocket is OK and there is light pressure he's great when there is free guys coming especially more than 1 he is cooked. To me the national championship game he looked worse than Jones with pressure, throw in his injury history which he was limping around in that game it's a tough sell, as a developmental guy yes the, arm talent is great but if you can't handle heavy to moderate pressure you ain't winning in the NFL. I was all over Penix when he was going through that win streak but out west those aren't exactly great defenses also even when he was buzzing he had bouts of easy misses if they draft him I'm on board but if he starts getting flustered with the rush and sufistacted NFL defenses some will need to go over that because it's all on film.
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Post by bluebuddha on Mar 3, 2024 9:40:12 GMT -5
I am guessing you haven't watched much of his games. I know that Walter football assessment from last year but this year against Oregon 2x, Texas he showed he can play with noise at his feet. Michigan had 229 rushing yards in one half!! We will leave it at this. We just evaluate QBs differently. I tell you one thing every game I watched he was making NFL level throws, while making defenses pay if they send and extra man . He shown the ability to read defenses and make quick decisions. He checks off a lot of boxes for me. I watched a ton of his games when the pocket is OK and there is light pressure he's great when there is free guys coming especially more than 1 he is cooked. To me the national championship game he looked worse than Jones with pressure, throw in his injury history which he was limping around in that game it's a tough sell, as a developmental guy yes the, arm talent is great but if you can't handle heavy to moderate pressure you ain't winning in the NFL. I was all over Penix when he was going through that win streak but out west those aren't exactly great defenses also even when he was buzzing he had bouts of easy misses if they draft him I'm on board but if he starts getting flustered with the rush and sufistacted NFL defenses some will need to go over that because it's all on film. I now see and agree with your assessment. Hopefully some other team gets stuck with him.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 3, 2024 9:55:50 GMT -5
I watched a ton of his games when the pocket is OK and there is light pressure he's great when there is free guys coming especially more than 1 he is cooked. To me the national championship game he looked worse than Jones with pressure, throw in his injury history which he was limping around in that game it's a tough sell, as a developmental guy yes the, arm talent is great but if you can't handle heavy to moderate pressure you ain't winning in the NFL. I was all over Penix when he was going through that win streak but out west those aren't exactly great defenses also even when he was buzzing he had bouts of easy misses if they draft him I'm on board but if he starts getting flustered with the rush and sufistacted NFL defenses some will need to go over that because it's all on film. I now see and agree with your assessment. Hopefully some other team gets stuck with him. At the right time he is a good pick it's the other things his arm talent has me wanting them to draft him then I think about and say yea in the second RD with second pick he won't slide that far and he will make throws that will make everyone say he is a top 3 talent but they better block .
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Post by bluebuddha on Mar 3, 2024 10:07:48 GMT -5
I now see and agree with your assessment. Hopefully some other team gets stuck with him. At the right time he is a good pick it's the other things his arm talent has me wanting them to draft him then I think about and say yea in the second RD with second pick he won't slide that far and he will make throws that will make everyone say he is a top 3 talent but they better block . I trust your evaluation and knowledge. You have great eye for qbs. You are in the wrong business posting here.
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Aris
Special Teams
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Post by Aris on Mar 3, 2024 11:07:00 GMT -5
I'm sensing a strong scent of jean Paul Gaultier's "sarcasm" in this thread
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Post by DJones19 on Mar 3, 2024 13:54:30 GMT -5
Watch the full workout for Penix...he missed plenty of passes. Would recommend muting Eisen because he's just there to be a cheerleader.
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Post by bavarobeast on Mar 3, 2024 14:56:21 GMT -5
So…..fun facts
Joe Milton threw the hardest ball 62mph - JJ McCarthy threw the second hardest at 61 mph - for reference Josh Allen threw 61mph.
Yes JJ in not only extremely accurate he has a damn strong arm.
One NFL executive said after JJ’s performance he could not only sneak into the top 10 he could slip into the top 5.
I’ve been pumping this guy up for months while experts on here said he only hands off the ball and he doesn’t have the kind of arm the top 3 Qb’s do. That’s been put to rest.
He may not be a Giant when all is said and done but I’ll pull for him wherever he lands. Wall to wall talent and character. The kind of person you want your kids to emulate rather than say temper tantrum and embarrassingly drunk in public Kansas City combo Pat and Trav
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Post by Analyst on Mar 3, 2024 15:25:52 GMT -5
So…..fun facts Joe Milton threw the hardest ball 62mph - JJ McCarthy threw the second hardest at 61 mph - for reference Josh Allen threw 61mph. Yes JJ in not only extremely accurate he has a damn strong arm. One NFL executive said after JJ’s performance he could not only sneak into the top 10 he could slip into the top 5. I’ve been pumping this guy up for months while experts on here said he only hands off the ball and he doesn’t have the kind of arm the top 3 Qb’s do. That’s been put to rest. He may not be a Giant when all is said and done but I’ll pull for him wherever he lands. Wall to wall talent and character. The kind of person you want your kids to emulate rather than say temper tantrum and embarrassingly drunk in public Kansas City combo Pat and Trav I don't see JJ sneaking into the top 10. I think he is cemented into the top 10. I figured he would be before the combine. JJ was looked at as QB4 but the combine definitely helped. Williams, Maye, Daniels and McCarthy all go top 10 IMO. I think Penix slips out of the 1st and Nix is a late 1st pick for that extra year of control. Probably a trade up. A QB no one is talking about is Jordan Travis from FSU. He will go mid-late in the draft, but before his injury, he looked legit out there. Helps with the weapons he had, but he made some brilliant plays in 2023. He could be like a Dak Prescott type. Later pick on a good team makes him a top QB with the right coaching.
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Post by Fletch842 on Mar 3, 2024 15:33:15 GMT -5
So…..fun facts Joe Milton threw the hardest ball 62mph - JJ McCarthy threw the second hardest at 61 mph - for reference Josh Allen threw 61mph. Yes JJ in not only extremely accurate he has a damn strong arm. One NFL executive said after JJ’s performance he could not only sneak into the top 10 he could slip into the top 5. I’ve been pumping this guy up for months while experts on here said he only hands off the ball and he doesn’t have the kind of arm the top 3 Qb’s do. That’s been put to rest. He may not be a Giant when all is said and done but I’ll pull for him wherever he lands. Wall to wall talent and character. The kind of person you want your kids to emulate rather than say temper tantrum and embarrassingly drunk in public Kansas City combo Pat and Trav I don't see JJ sneaking into the top 10. I think he is cemented into the top 10. I figured he would be before the combine. JJ was looked at as QB4 but the combine definitely helped. Williams, Maye, Daniels and McCarthy all go top 10 IMO. I think Penix slips out of the 1st and Nix is a late 1st pick for that extra year of control. Probably a trade up. A QB no one is talking about is Jordan Travis from FSU. He will go mid-late in the draft, but before his injury, he looked legit out there. Helps with the weapons he had, but he made some brilliant plays in 2023. He could be like a Dak Prescott type. Later pick on a good team makes him a top QB with the right coaching. travis did have some really nice games before the injury for sure...
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Post by bavarobeast on Mar 3, 2024 16:54:06 GMT -5
So…..fun facts Joe Milton threw the hardest ball 62mph - JJ McCarthy threw the second hardest at 61 mph - for reference Josh Allen threw 61mph. Yes JJ in not only extremely accurate he has a damn strong arm. One NFL executive said after JJ’s performance he could not only sneak into the top 10 he could slip into the top 5. I’ve been pumping this guy up for months while experts on here said he only hands off the ball and he doesn’t have the kind of arm the top 3 Qb’s do. That’s been put to rest. He may not be a Giant when all is said and done but I’ll pull for him wherever he lands. Wall to wall talent and character. The kind of person you want your kids to emulate rather than say temper tantrum and embarrassingly drunk in public Kansas City combo Pat and Trav I don't see JJ sneaking into the top 10. I think he is cemented into the top 10. I figured he would be before the combine. JJ was looked at as QB4 but the combine definitely helped. Williams, Maye, Daniels and McCarthy all go top 10 IMO. I think Penix slips out of the 1st and Nix is a late 1st pick for that extra year of control. Probably a trade up. A QB no one is talking about is Jordan Travis from FSU. He will go mid-late in the draft, but before his injury, he looked legit out there. Helps with the weapons he had, but he made some brilliant plays in 2023. He could be like a Dak Prescott type. Later pick on a good team makes him a top QB with the right coaching. I don’t think JJ makes top 5 either but 10 there’s a good chance. I think Penix gets picked b4 Nix. Penix medicals all passed the test according to combine coverage. I’m just not big an Nix but he has enough tools to prove me wrong. Jordan Travis is a great talent but still overall slim pickings on QB’s next season. This is the year to grab a QB if you need one. Next years supply will be inferior to the top dogs this year.
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Post by lt56 on Mar 3, 2024 19:24:31 GMT -5
I guess nobody cares about Lineman LMFAO
Some love for the Big Fellas, all Solid for their Sizes
One of my Favorites Big Coop had a great day, faster 40 Time than Joe Alt and Olu Fashanu but the most important Drills for Lineman he showed very Fluid Footwork
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Aris
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Post by Aris on Mar 3, 2024 22:15:11 GMT -5
Joe Alt
Height: 6-8 ⅝” Weight: 321 Arm: 34 ¼” Hand: 10” Wingspan: 82 ¾”
40-Yard Dash: 5.05 seconds 10-Yard Split: 1.73 seconds Vertical Jump: 28 inches Broad Jump: 9 feet, 4 inches Three Cone: 7.31 seconds Short Shuttle: 4.51 seconds
He's an all pro Lane Johnson type ex TE athlete
He's easily the best of a VERY talented tackle group. ALL the other talented tackles will be taken in this deep class and will be taken in the 1st round, and no high graded plug play tackle will fall to the Giants in the 2nd round.
However, the deep wide out class will have possible starting X receivers hit the third round. WR's are an abundant supply from college each year that require an offensive line to create the entire process of them running their route and allowing the OC to get them open. Useless without a trench.
For fans whom complain we should stop investing in getting the most important aspect of the offensive side of the ball, blocking....this would be the year to get the sure thing at right tackle.
You pass this year on OL and go WR at 6, we once again pass on a Slater type talent and complain no OL again, and again.
BTW, Lane Johnson plays right tackle and was chosen 4. All pro and pro bowl.
Get Joe Alt and NOT some fantasy wide receiver that will have a crap QB running for his life in 2 seconds. Stonewall the edges one on one and game manager QB's can thrive.
Joe Alt at 6.
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Aris
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Post by Aris on Mar 3, 2024 22:23:06 GMT -5
I guess nobody cares about Lineman LMFAO Some love for the Big Fellas, all Solid for their Sizes One of my Favorites Big Coop had a great day, faster 40 Time than Joe Alt and Olu Fashanu but the most important Drills for Lineman he showed very Fluid Footwork Nice post ...only the most important need on this team as it stands...yet, we somehow feel a fast X receiver is going to help a Jones or any other QB after the season of the sack. Blocking is boring, and while the most important aspect of a football game on the offense, the guys that do it never seem to excite the fan who sees the rewards in catches and runs... Joe Alt is not only huge, and not only athletic...he is a technician and he actually bends well...very well. His tape is nearly flawless. Just imagine having two tackles that can take the best the NFL can offer at edge, and stop them without any help, one on one...both sides.
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Post by piddy283 on Mar 3, 2024 23:26:34 GMT -5
Joe Alt Height: 6-8 ⅝” Weight: 321 Arm: 34 ¼” Hand: 10” Wingspan: 82 ¾” 40-Yard Dash: 5.05 seconds 10-Yard Split: 1.73 seconds Vertical Jump: 28 inches Broad Jump: 9 feet, 4 inches Three Cone: 7.31 seconds Short Shuttle: 4.51 seconds He's an all pro Lane Johnson type ex TE athlete He's easily the best of a VERY talented tackle group. ALL the other talented tackles will be taken in this deep class and will be taken in the 1st round, and no high graded plug play high graded tackle will fall to the Giants in the 2nd round. However, the deep wide out class will have possible starting X receivers hit the third round. WR's are an abundant supply from college each year that require an offensive line to create the entire process of them running their route and allowing the OC to get them open. Useless without a trench. For fans whom complain we should stop investing in getting the most important aspect of the offensive side of the ball, blocking....this would be the year to get the sure thing at right tackle. You pass this year on OL and go WR at 6, we once again pass on a Slater type talent and complain no OL again, and again. BTW, Lane Johnson plays right tackle and was chosen 4. All pro and pro bowl. Get Joe Alt and NOT some fantasy wide receiver that will have a crap QB running for his life in 2 seconds. Stonewall the edges one on one and game manager QB's can thrive. Joe Alt at 6. My only question/concern is can he play RT? I’m fine going OL but we have our LT. The kid from Oregon St looks like a stud and is a natural RT. Would it be better to draft him instead?
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Aris
Special Teams
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Post by Aris on Mar 4, 2024 4:32:50 GMT -5
Joe Alt Height: 6-8 ⅝” Weight: 321 Arm: 34 ¼” Hand: 10” Wingspan: 82 ¾” 40-Yard Dash: 5.05 seconds 10-Yard Split: 1.73 seconds Vertical Jump: 28 inches Broad Jump: 9 feet, 4 inches Three Cone: 7.31 seconds Short Shuttle: 4.51 seconds He's an all pro Lane Johnson type ex TE athlete He's easily the best of a VERY talented tackle group. ALL the other talented tackles will be taken in this deep class and will be taken in the 1st round, and no high graded plug play high graded tackle will fall to the Giants in the 2nd round. However, the deep wide out class will have possible starting X receivers hit the third round. WR's are an abundant supply from college each year that require an offensive line to create the entire process of them running their route and allowing the OC to get them open. Useless without a trench. For fans whom complain we should stop investing in getting the most important aspect of the offensive side of the ball, blocking....this would be the year to get the sure thing at right tackle. You pass this year on OL and go WR at 6, we once again pass on a Slater type talent and complain no OL again, and again. BTW, Lane Johnson plays right tackle and was chosen 4. All pro and pro bowl. Get Joe Alt and NOT some fantasy wide receiver that will have a crap QB running for his life in 2 seconds. Stonewall the edges one on one and game manager QB's can thrive. Joe Alt at 6. My only question/concern is can he play RT? I’m fine going OL but we have our LT. The kid from Oregon St looks like a stud and is a natural RT. Would it be better to draft him instead? Valid argument, if you feel Alt can't play the right side. I see nothing that says he can't play the right side, but have no issues with Fuaga....the board however would melt down into a 6th pick, 6th mass extinction event as we could possibly see a record amount of threads surpassing the Jones....often injured, average armed, pocket wildebeest vs playoff game winner. Ten tackles are going first round. 10/32 ...that is insane.
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Post by Fletch842 on Mar 4, 2024 6:45:10 GMT -5
My only question/concern is can he play RT? I’m fine going OL but we have our LT. The kid from Oregon St looks like a stud and is a natural RT. Would it be better to draft him instead? Valid argument, if you feel Alt can't play the right side. I see nothing that says he can't play the right side, but have no issues with Fuaga....the board however would melt down into a 6th pick, 6th mass extinction event as we could possibly see a record amount of threads surpassing the Jones....often injured, average armed, pocket wildebeest vs playoff game winner. Ten tackles are going first round. 10/32 ...that is insane. I'd be fine with either Alt or Fuaga, my top 2 OT's this year...Prefer either of them over any receiver except maybe MHJ, who I think will go in top 4.
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Post by piddy283 on Mar 4, 2024 7:10:40 GMT -5
My only question/concern is can he play RT? I’m fine going OL but we have our LT. The kid from Oregon St looks like a stud and is a natural RT. Would it be better to draft him instead? Valid argument, if you feel Alt can't play the right side. I see nothing that says he can't play the right side, but have no issues with Fuaga....the board however would melt down into a 6th pick, 6th mass extinction event as we could possibly see a record amount of threads surpassing the Jones....often injured, average armed, pocket wildebeest vs playoff game winner. Ten tackles are going first round. 10/32 ...that is insane. Between OL, WR, and QB this seems to be one of the deeper classes I’ve paid attention to. Maybe the deepest.
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Post by piddy283 on Mar 4, 2024 7:15:13 GMT -5
This is my QB list and ranking within the top 500 Prospect list. This class really is not that good. It is what the computer pumped out. Link to QB List
MY opinion The Best QB on this list is 2nd round talent. Rember the draft is nothing more than a pay scale. Some GMs are willing to overpay. At times they get bit for it. If it wasn't, each pick would not have a perceived pay scale attached to it. You really think the best QB is a 2nd round talent? How can that be? There hasn’t been a draft in my lifetime that Caleb Williams would be considered a 2nd round talent, and there’s about five QBs projected to go in the 1st.
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Post by TEM on Mar 4, 2024 7:37:34 GMT -5
This is my QB list and ranking within the top 500 Prospect list. This class really is not that good. It is what the computer pumped out. Link to QB List
MY opinion The Best QB on this list is 2nd round talent. Rember the draft is nothing more than a pay scale. Some GMs are willing to overpay. At times they get bit for it. If it wasn't, each pick would not have a perceived pay scale attached to it. You really think the best QB is a 2nd round talent? How can that be? There hasn’t been a draft in my lifetime that Caleb Williams would be considered a 2nd round talent, and there’s about five QBs projected to go in the 1st. This is no better than the 2015 class. Over hyped, lack of talent and mental prowess. You are right he will get drafted high ( Mistake) Here is my view of Williams. Williams cried on the field because he lost. What makes anyone think he possess the mental toughness to deal the constant difficulties associated with the NFL game? Crying for losing a game does not in any way show that toughness..... That is not a character quality you want in an NFL QB. You want the guy the gets quietly pissed and channels that energy at the next opponent. I do not see that in him. I see another Vince Young . All talent no cavalier attitude. And no, I do not need stats to see this character flaw. I predict he will fold because of the constant pressure. As Young did. If the QB cannot put it all on the line because of the fear repercussion. He is not the guy. If what I just described is considered the best this class can produce. What does that say about the rest of the class?
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Aris
Special Teams
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Post by Aris on Mar 4, 2024 8:00:53 GMT -5
Valid argument, if you feel Alt can't play the right side. I see nothing that says he can't play the right side, but have no issues with Fuaga....the board however would melt down into a 6th pick, 6th mass extinction event as we could possibly see a record amount of threads surpassing the Jones....often injured, average armed, pocket wildebeest vs playoff game winner. Ten tackles are going first round. 10/32 ...that is insane. Between OL, WR, and QB this seems to be one of the deeper classes I’ve paid attention to. Maybe the deepest. I have seen deep wide receiver classes, but nothing like the grades of the tackles this year, a position that is reached for almost as much as the QB, and a position so hard to project for the NFL due to the offenses that college play. It’s like trying to take a QB that plays in a pass happy conference vs a JJ McCarthy. Yet, we have strange posters on this very board that will try and use statistics to somehow use in grading college QB talent. Scouts look at tape and not percentage completions with QB’s…as they do with offensive tackles. It’s VERY difficult to project a college player playing in the NFL, even sure things. You try and break down a player and figure out what needs correcting, and the level of difficulty for that need cause all prospects have weaknesses. You can Neal as an example…his concern coming out was balance. We all know any OT is going to have difficulty with speed, unless you have the footwork of a Slater, with flawless technique. Neal lacked the footwork, so you have to figure it’s gonna take more time to adjust to the speed, and footwork, while correctable, is a tougher fix than say hand placement. IMHO, Alt has Slater footwork with the same level of technique…and on a much larger scale of a human. Neal now, for me…unless he drastically improves on that footwork, is an easy guard projection. Sure he is tall, but the space he will take on the inside should secure the interior, and his run blocking on gap should be impressive. I will be very disappointed if the Giants take a wide receiver at 6 vs a tackle. Remember Stafford to Calvin Johnson only produced a 39-48 record. Of course we know they are going QB…or trying hard for one.
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Post by imgrate on Mar 4, 2024 8:47:30 GMT -5
Joe Alt Height: 6-8 ⅝” Weight: 321 Arm: 34 ¼” Hand: 10” Wingspan: 82 ¾” 40-Yard Dash: 5.05 seconds 10-Yard Split: 1.73 seconds Vertical Jump: 28 inches Broad Jump: 9 feet, 4 inches Three Cone: 7.31 seconds Short Shuttle: 4.51 seconds He's an all pro Lane Johnson type ex TE athlete He's easily the best of a VERY talented tackle group. ALL the other talented tackles will be taken in this deep class and will be taken in the 1st round, and no high graded plug play tackle will fall to the Giants in the 2nd round. However, the deep wide out class will have possible starting X receivers hit the third round. WR's are an abundant supply from college each year that require an offensive line to create the entire process of them running their route and allowing the OC to get them open. Useless without a trench. For fans whom complain we should stop investing in getting the most important aspect of the offensive side of the ball, blocking....this would be the year to get the sure thing at right tackle. You pass this year on OL and go WR at 6, we once again pass on a Slater type talent and complain no OL again, and again. BTW, Lane Johnson plays right tackle and was chosen 4. All pro and pro bowl. Get Joe Alt and NOT some fantasy wide receiver that will have a crap QB running for his life in 2 seconds. Stonewall the edges one on one and game manager QB's can thrive. Joe Alt at 6. Damn that bitch is over 6’8?
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Post by imgrate on Mar 4, 2024 8:51:43 GMT -5
Joe Alt Height: 6-8 ⅝” Weight: 321 Arm: 34 ¼” Hand: 10” Wingspan: 82 ¾” 40-Yard Dash: 5.05 seconds 10-Yard Split: 1.73 seconds Vertical Jump: 28 inches Broad Jump: 9 feet, 4 inches Three Cone: 7.31 seconds Short Shuttle: 4.51 seconds He's an all pro Lane Johnson type ex TE athlete He's easily the best of a VERY talented tackle group. ALL the other talented tackles will be taken in this deep class and will be taken in the 1st round, and no high graded plug play tackle will fall to the Giants in the 2nd round. However, the deep wide out class will have possible starting X receivers hit the third round. WR's are an abundant supply from college each year that require an offensive line to create the entire process of them running their route and allowing the OC to get them open. Useless without a trench. For fans whom complain we should stop investing in getting the most important aspect of the offensive side of the ball, blocking....this would be the year to get the sure thing at right tackle. You pass this year on OL and go WR at 6, we once again pass on a Slater type talent and complain no OL again, and again. BTW, Lane Johnson plays right tackle and was chosen 4. All pro and pro bowl. Get Joe Alt and NOT some fantasy wide receiver that will have a crap QB running for his life in 2 seconds. Stonewall the edges one on one and game manager QB's can thrive. Joe Alt at 6. While Alt is the guy i lean towards, I get the feeling we’re going B QB
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Post by piddy283 on Mar 4, 2024 9:31:37 GMT -5
Between OL, WR, and QB this seems to be one of the deeper classes I’ve paid attention to. Maybe the deepest. I have seen deep wide receiver classes, but nothing like the grades of the tackles this year, a position that is reached for almost as much as the QB, and a position so hard to project for the NFL due to the offenses that college play. It’s like trying to take a QB that plays in a pass happy conference vs a JJ McCarthy. Yet, we have strange posters on this very board that will try and use statistics to somehow use in grading college QB talent. Scouts look at tape and not percentage completions with QB’s…as they do with offensive tackles. It’s VERY difficult to project a college player playing in the NFL, even sure things. You try and break down a player and figure out what needs correcting, and the level of difficulty for that need cause all prospects have weaknesses. You can Neal as an example…his concern coming out was balance. We all know any OT is going to have difficulty with speed, unless you have the footwork of a Slater, with flawless technique. Neal lacked the footwork, so you have to figure it’s gonna take more time to adjust to the speed, and footwork, while correctable, is a tougher fix than say hand placement. IMHO, Alt has Slater footwork with the same level of technique…and on a much larger scale of a human. Neal now, for me…unless he drastically improves on that footwork, is an easy guard projection. Sure he is tall, but the space he will take on the inside should secure the interior, and his run blocking on gap should be impressive. I will be very disappointed if the Giants take a wide receiver at 6 vs a tackle. Remember Stafford to Calvin Johnson only produced a 39-48 record. Of course we know they are going QB…or trying hard for one. I knew Alt was a mountain of a man, but I didn't realize he's 6'8. That's a big boy. Personally, I don't have an understanding of OL play to say whether or not a player can swap from one side to the other. I'd guess if the player is good enough on one side then he should be passable on the other, but with this being such a deep draft class I'd question if it just makes sense to go with a "natural" RT.
With Neal, I'm actually OK giving him another shot at RT to start the season. Between the new OL coach and him playing through injuries both his first two season, I'd be interested to see if there's any improvement going into year 3. That said, we'd absolutely need a backup plan and the idea of moving him inside is interesting. He has the strength to man the position and playing in a phone booth might help mask some of his issues, like balance. I'm not sure which side would be the better fit, but him alongside Thomas could make for a nice run blocking combo.
Similar to OL, I'd be fine drafting WR in Rd1. Knowing that both positions are deep and that starting talent will be available on day-2, and knowing how expensive WRs are on their 2nd contract, I might actually prefer WR in Rd1 for the 5th year option. In terms of WR, I've gravitated towards Nabers because he seems to fit the mold Dabs & Schoen prefer. As much as I like Odunze, I question whether or not we have the QB, and to a lesser extent the OL, to properly utilize his skill set.
Agreed on the QB. Walking away from this draft with a potential QB1 would be the ideal scenario. Along those lines, reports say McCarthy solidified himself as a top-15 pick this weekend. It was good to see him weigh in at nearly 220lbs, and he answered some questions with that velocity and those 60-yarders. The latest rumors say we'll need to trade up for McCarthy if we want him. That seems a bit ridiculous, but if he falls to #6 I'd be surprised if he's not in blue next season. I'd drink to that!
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Post by piddy283 on Mar 4, 2024 10:22:30 GMT -5
You really think the best QB is a 2nd round talent? How can that be? There hasn’t been a draft in my lifetime that Caleb Williams would be considered a 2nd round talent, and there’s about five QBs projected to go in the 1st. This is no better than the 2015 class. Over hyped, lack of talent and mental prowess. You are right he will get drafted high ( Mistake) Here is my view of Williams. Williams cried on the field because he lost. What makes anyone think he possess the mental toughness to deal the constant difficulties associated with the NFL game? Crying for losing a game does not in any way show that toughness..... That is not a character quality you want in an NFL QB. You want the guy the gets quietly pissed and channels that energy at the next opponent. I do not see that in him. I see another Vince Young . All talent no cavalier attitude. And no, I do not need stats to see this character flaw. I predict he will fold because of the constant pressure. As Young did. If the QB cannot put it all on the line because of the fear repercussion. He is not the guy. If what I just described is considered the best this class can produce. What does that say about the rest of the class?
In terms of the mental aspect and the personality, players like Williams and Rattler concern me. The idea of Williams having to answer to the NY media after multiple losses doesn't seem like a good fit.
I'm also a bit concerned with Daniels frame and style of play. With his skill set, I can see him stepping on the field day-1 for any team and immediately making them playoff contenders. With his frame and propensity to take big hits, I can just as easily see him missing the majority of the season with injury.
That said, saying this class is on par with the 2015 class seems like a stretch. Honestly, it's kind of absurd. I had to go back and look, but here are the QBs drafted in 2015.....
- Jameis Winston
- Marcus Mariota
- Garrett Grayson
- Sean Mannion
- Bryce Petty
- Brett Hundley
- Trevor Siemian
- Taylor Heinicke
Beyond a few career backups, 2015 was horrible. I don't recognize half of the names on that list. Without doing research, I'd imagine it's one of the worst QB classes in the 2000's.
With your algorithm, is it 100% based on stats, metrics, etc., or is film review also taken into consideration?
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Aris
Special Teams
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Post by Aris on Mar 4, 2024 11:25:27 GMT -5
Joe Alt Height: 6-8 ⅝” Weight: 321 Arm: 34 ¼” Hand: 10” Wingspan: 82 ¾” 40-Yard Dash: 5.05 seconds 10-Yard Split: 1.73 seconds Vertical Jump: 28 inches Broad Jump: 9 feet, 4 inches Three Cone: 7.31 seconds Short Shuttle: 4.51 seconds He's an all pro Lane Johnson type ex TE athlete He's easily the best of a VERY talented tackle group. ALL the other talented tackles will be taken in this deep class and will be taken in the 1st round, and no high graded plug play tackle will fall to the Giants in the 2nd round. However, the deep wide out class will have possible starting X receivers hit the third round. WR's are an abundant supply from college each year that require an offensive line to create the entire process of them running their route and allowing the OC to get them open. Useless without a trench. For fans whom complain we should stop investing in getting the most important aspect of the offensive side of the ball, blocking....this would be the year to get the sure thing at right tackle. You pass this year on OL and go WR at 6, we once again pass on a Slater type talent and complain no OL again, and again. BTW, Lane Johnson plays right tackle and was chosen 4. All pro and pro bowl. Get Joe Alt and NOT some fantasy wide receiver that will have a crap QB running for his life in 2 seconds. Stonewall the edges one on one and game manager QB's can thrive. Joe Alt at 6. Damn that bitch is over 6’8? He is also the frame to add 15 pounds of muscle and keep that athleticism...imagine nearly 6'9 and 340 pounds and dancing bear feet?
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Post by bluebuddha on Mar 4, 2024 11:28:39 GMT -5
Damn that bitch is over 6’8? He is also the frame to add 15 pounds of muscle and keep that athleticism...imagine nearly 6'9 and 340 pounds and dancing bear feet? Would someone that tall have leverage issues against more athletic pass rushers at the NFL level?
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Aris
Special Teams
Posts: 501
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Post by Aris on Mar 4, 2024 11:34:38 GMT -5
He is also the frame to add 15 pounds of muscle and keep that athleticism...imagine nearly 6'9 and 340 pounds and dancing bear feet? Would someone that tall have leverage issues against more athletic pass rushers at the NFL level? Not on the tape I watched...he bends very well. That was a Nate Solder issue...poor footwork and the dreaded tall man issue, keeping his pads too high. Sometimes you hear a short armed tackle has to be moved inside, but some of them are so sound technically the t-rex syndrome has absolutely no effect on them eating their edge prey. Oh wow...did a krunch.
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Post by bluebuddha on Mar 4, 2024 11:49:13 GMT -5
Would someone that tall have leverage issues against more athletic pass rushers at the NFL level? Not on the tape I watched...he bends very well. That was a Nate Solder issue...poor footwork and the dreaded tall man issue, keeping his pads too high. Sometimes you hear a short armed tackle has to be moved inside, but some of them are so sound technically the t-rex syndrome has absolutely no effect on them eating their edge prey. Oh wow...did a krunch. Cool, I was afraid of that as the tall tackle can't drop thier center of balance against those smaller quicker Edge guys. This guy seems real athletic though. I haven't been keeping up with the oline in this draft.
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Aris
Special Teams
Posts: 501
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Post by Aris on Mar 4, 2024 12:38:47 GMT -5
Not on the tape I watched...he bends very well. That was a Nate Solder issue...poor footwork and the dreaded tall man issue, keeping his pads too high. Sometimes you hear a short armed tackle has to be moved inside, but some of them are so sound technically the t-rex syndrome has absolutely no effect on them eating their edge prey. Oh wow...did a krunch. Cool, I was afraid of that as the tall tackle can't drop thier center of balance against those smaller quicker Edge guys. This guy seems real athletic though. I haven't been keeping up with the oline in this draft. His dad, John Alt was a LT for the Chiefs for 13 seasons and a 2 time pro bowler. He was also 6'8. He also started as a tight end in high school. Oh, John was also picked in the first round. You simply can't deny his huge athletic lineage, and you understand why his technique is flawless ....having your dad go over film and training on a one on one forever session. Some of these tackles will be traded up for...he could be one. Out here in Cardinal land there is a lot of chatter on the sports radio about the Cards in love with Alt and after Harrison, having enough ammo to get back up there for the Notre Dame stud.
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Post by TEM on Mar 4, 2024 13:49:44 GMT -5
This is no better than the 2015 class. Over hyped, lack of talent and mental prowess. You are right he will get drafted high ( Mistake) Here is my view of Williams. Williams cried on the field because he lost. What makes anyone think he possess the mental toughness to deal the constant difficulties associated with the NFL game? Crying for losing a game does not in any way show that toughness..... That is not a character quality you want in an NFL QB. You want the guy the gets quietly pissed and channels that energy at the next opponent. I do not see that in him. I see another Vince Young . All talent no cavalier attitude. And no, I do not need stats to see this character flaw. I predict he will fold because of the constant pressure. As Young did. If the QB cannot put it all on the line because of the fear repercussion. He is not the guy. If what I just described is considered the best this class can produce. What does that say about the rest of the class?
In terms of the mental aspect and the personality, players like Williams and Rattler concern me. The idea of Williams having to answer to the NY media after multiple losses doesn't seem like a good fit.
I'm also a bit concerned with Daniels frame and style of play. With his skill set, I can see him stepping on the field day-1 for any team and immediately making them playoff contenders. With his frame and propensity to take big hits, I can just as easily see him missing the majority of the season with injury.
That said, saying this class is on par with the 2015 class seems like a stretch. Honestly, it's kind of absurd. I had to go back and look, but here are the QBs drafted in 2015.....
- Jameis Winston
- Marcus Mariota
- Garrett Grayson
- Sean Mannion
- Bryce Petty
- Brett Hundley
- Trevor Siemian
- Taylor Heinicke
Beyond a few career backups, 2015 was horrible. I don't recognize half of the names on that list. Without doing research, I'd imagine it's one of the worst QB classes in the 2000's.
With your algorithm, is it 100% based on stats, metrics, etc., or is film review also taken into consideration?
Let's use pick 17 as an example to follow. (I used a 24-year sale size last year since 2000) Historically pick 17 has produced 24 players. Percentages are rounded. 1 QB 4% 0 RBs 2 WRs 9% 0 TEs 3 OTs 13% 3 OGs 13% 0 Centers. 2 DTs 9% 4 ILBs 17% 3 Edge/ OLB 13% 3 CBs 13% 2 Safeties 9% 0 Punters I Kicker 4% 0 Long Snappers 24 players drafted. Rounded It comes to 104%. My algorithm is based on 3 main logical arguments. With some subcategories. All with a weight attached to them. I am doing this as a Write. A) The history of the pick: I just showed the history of the pick (last year a corner was taken with 17). 13% is one corner taken every 8 drafts. Most likely a corner will not be taken this year. It calculates every position's probability based upon when the position was last picked. It also looks at the 2 picks on either side of it. (bell curve / wave function effect) Example OLB/ Edge is 22% on pick 16 and 26% on pick 18. It also averages the history those picks on when that position was last picked as well. Then calculates that into the probability of Pick 17 also. B) Need as it applied to pick: This year pick 17 belong to The Jags. (most likely not accurate because FA has not taken place yet) But The Jags main needs are interior O-line, Interior D-line Edge Corner depth WR depth. A corner can be counted out just because of need and a corner was taken in last year's draft with pick 17. Most likely a Center also. Rarely taken in the 1st. That leaves OG, DT, Edge. An Og was taken in 2022 with 17. 2019 Dex was taken with 17 By this I would predict Edge C) Is the player and the position in the wheelhouse and consensus: Is there a player ranked high enough at 17 that fills a need? Consensus is what are the pendants saying about those players draft status. I have 2 Edge Rushers in my wheelhouse at 17 Jared Verse, I have ranked at 16 Laiatu Latu, I have ranked at 19 What the pundits are saying: www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/players/2024/laiatu-latu/page/1.html Laiatu Latu Average mock draft pick 16. www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/players/2024/jared-verse/page/1.html Jared Verse Average mock draft pick 15 There are a few more lesser metrics I use for tie breakers. Without running my algorithm, I would predict the Jags select Laiatu Latu with pick 17. It fits most of the criteria. This is pre-FA. The needs may change after it is finished. This is the basics on how my draft predictability functions. I hope someday to be 60% on position taken. 40% on player taken. That beats every Mock draft ever published.
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