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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 18, 2024 17:17:56 GMT -5
let’s take it apart
thoughts?
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 18, 2024 17:34:48 GMT -5
So many QB questions
Waller - giving him space lol
15 min in, 1st Jones question. He’s running a straight line
We’re not one or two players away - oh boy
“Lot of calls from people behind us”. How far back do we want to go?
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Post by Nite on Apr 18, 2024 18:11:36 GMT -5
I think depending on how the draft goes if the QB they want is not there, they will trade back. If the target is there and the price is not too steep they will trade up. That is my bold prediction lol
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 18, 2024 18:19:44 GMT -5
I think depending on how the draft goes if the QB they want is not there, they will trade back. If the target is there and the price is not too steep they will trade up. That is my bold prediction lol I think that is the smartest move. Qb or move back. And if he doesn’t love the QB, yeah it’s a bidding war.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 18, 2024 18:36:21 GMT -5
I feel like Schoen would move up for Maye or Daniels if he has the opportunity (don’t think he will) but won’t move up for JJ. Not sure what Schoen will do if JJ makes it to 6, but I don’t think that he would be Schoen’s highest ranked player at that spot.
So I’m feeling a very small chance of a QB (Maye or Daniels) … better chance of a WR … and I think that our guy will be Rome Odunze
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te88
Special Teams
Posts: 1,991
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Post by te88 on Apr 18, 2024 18:57:09 GMT -5
I feel like Schoen would move up for Maye or Daniels if he has the opportunity (don’t think he will) but won’t move up for JJ. Not sure what Schoen will do if JJ makes it to 6, but I don’t think that he would be Schoen’s highest ranked player at that spot. So I’m feeling a very small chance of a QB (Maye or Daniel’s) … better chance of a WR … and I think that our guy will be Rome Odunze I think if Daniels somehow gets past Washington and NE Schoen will make a big move to try to get him. Anyone else, I don’t see it. Odunze checks all the boxes
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Post by McCherry on Apr 18, 2024 19:14:06 GMT -5
I don't think we learned anything new.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 18, 2024 19:16:38 GMT -5
I don't think we learned anything new. well, the GM said teams are calling. It wasn’t some misc tweet
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 18, 2024 21:10:13 GMT -5
I don't think we learned anything new. well, the GM said teams are calling. It wasn’t some misc tweet He did some thing out of the normal routine letting that out, can't help but think there was a reason he made that comment. Starting to think he wants to be first in line after the the QBs are gone he is probably hoping for 5 to go in the first 5 even tho that isn't realistic it might be his perfect scenario since it looks like he might be out of the top 3. I like the trade if it's not to far I really like the Denver roomed deal Surtain filling a premium position of need and there first this year and next throw next year 2nd in and or this year 3rd I'm in.
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Post by Fletch842 on Apr 19, 2024 5:10:20 GMT -5
well, the GM said teams are calling. It wasn’t some misc tweet He did some thing out of the normal routine letting that out, can't help but think there was a reason he made that comment. Starting to think he wants to be first in line after the the QBs are gone he is probably hoping for 5 to go in the first 5 even tho that isn't realistic it might be his perfect scenario since it looks like he might be out of the top 3. I like the trade if it's not to far I really like the Denver roomed deal Surtain filling a premium position of need and there first this year and next throw next year 2nd in and or this year 3rd I'm in. depending on the first 5 picks a trade like that with Denver would be really beneficial for us, I'd be ok with it...
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Post by cdngfan on Apr 19, 2024 6:32:10 GMT -5
I’m a management geek so I found a couple things interesting that others may not:
They’ll freeze the board this weekend. Really smart. Shows the sheer number of scenarios they’re considering and recognizing that analysis can actually overwhelm decision making.
As fans we over value film relative to how they evaluate players. Of course that’s all we really have to go off of. But we’ll take about Maye being worth it or not based on film. They’re thinking about character are other factors we have no visibility on.
They’ve talked to Denver about trading down. I wouldn’t read anything into that other than this GM just gathers info as a rule. He doesn’t gather info on the decisions he wants to make. He gathers info and makes a decision based on the info. It’s why all the “giants desperate to move up” stuff never rings true with me. Just figuring out the cost. We had a GM that wouldn’t even take the call. Hate that so much.
Picking at 6 is easier than 25. That makes a ton of sense but I never really considered that.
Found the collective “breath holding” when hearing from the medical team interesting. They trust that due diligence clearly, vs trying to talk themselves into a decision their staff is guiding them against. I like that.
BPA is real.
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Post by inthezone on Apr 19, 2024 6:58:10 GMT -5
well, the GM said teams are calling. It wasn’t some misc tweet He did some thing out of the normal routine letting that out, can't help but think there was a reason he made that comment.
Starting to think he wants to be first in line after the the QBs are gone he is probably hoping for 5 to go in the first 5 even tho that isn't realistic it might be his perfect scenario since it looks like he might be out of the top 3. I like the trade if it's not to far I really like the Denver roomed deal Surtain filling a premium position of need and there first this year and next throw next year 2nd in and or this year 3rd I'm in. It's to set up a bidding war for the pick which was a smart move.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 19, 2024 9:43:39 GMT -5
I’m a management geek so I found a couple things interesting that others may not: They’ll freeze the board this weekend. Really smart. Shows the sheer number of scenarios they’re considering and recognizing that analysis can actually overwhelm decision making. As fans we over value film relative to how they evaluate players. Of course that’s all we really have to go off of. But we’ll take about Maye being worth it or not based on film. They’re thinking about character are other factors we have no visibility on. They’ve talked to Denver about trading down. I wouldn’t read anything into that other than this GM just gathers info as a rule. He doesn’t gather info on the decisions he wants to make. He gathers info and makes a decision based on the info. It’s why all the “giants desperate to move up” stuff never rings true with me. Just figuring out the cost. We had a GM that wouldn’t even take the call. Hate that so much. Picking at 6 is easier than 25. That makes a ton of sense but I never really considered that. Found the collective “breath holding” when hearing from the medical team interesting. They trust that due diligence clearly, vs trying to talk themselves into a decision their staff is guiding them against. I like that. BPA is real. BPA is how the best of the bets build by being strict to it I like the way he is operating right now . I do believe he realizes that when there turn comes on Thursday he will be looking at a top 2 or 3 talent in front of him and some trade up or down possibilities. question is does he take a guy who has the ability to change a game fast at 6 or does he trade down and get a notch below that and some good solid football players instead.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 19, 2024 9:54:16 GMT -5
There are some pundits suggesting the giants trade down to 28 with Buffalo fro a bevy of picks this year and some next they could get a lot of roster building done from CB to safety DL and OL RB all in this draft.
and have capital next year to the down side is they will have the Bills picks bottom of every round.
Barnwell thinks it's a win win the bills replace Diggs Giants get to build up the roster.
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Post by Nick6475 on Apr 19, 2024 10:06:15 GMT -5
There are some pundits suggesting the giants trade down to 28 with Buffalo fro a bevy of picks this year and some next they could get a lot of roster building done from CB to safety DL and OL RB all in this draft. and have capital next year to the down side is they will have the Bills picks bottom of every round. Barnwell thinks it's a win win the bills replace Diggs Giants get to build up the roster. That's a huge drop. The Giants would have to get their top 3 picks this year and next year for them to even consider it.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 19, 2024 11:32:38 GMT -5
There are some pundits suggesting the giants trade down to 28 with Buffalo fro a bevy of picks this year and some next they could get a lot of roster building done from CB to safety DL and OL RB all in this draft. and have capital next year to the down side is they will have the Bills picks bottom of every round. Barnwell thinks it's a win win the bills replace Diggs Giants get to build up the roster. That's a huge drop. The Giants would have to get their top 3 picks this year and next year for them to even consider it. Think it was top 3 this year 1 next year and their 3, 5 picks all together I didn't like it because of the drop but it is a lot of capital. With this draft alone it could fill up the roster. Still wouldn't like it .
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Post by McCherry on Apr 19, 2024 12:21:01 GMT -5
That's a huge drop. The Giants would have to get their top 3 picks this year and next year for them to even consider it. Think it was top 3 this year 1 next year and their 3, 5 picks all together I didn't like it because of the drop but it is a lot of capital. With this draft alone it could fill up the roster. Still wouldn't like it . If they can't get one of the top 4 QB's, this trade makes perfect sense. It's not too far of a drop at all... You're in prime Penix territory at 28, you still get a top WR in round 2. That's an outstanding deal for the Giants. A lot to give up for the Bills if you ask me.
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Post by Nick6475 on Apr 19, 2024 13:34:12 GMT -5
Think it was top 3 this year 1 next year and their 3, 5 picks all together I didn't like it because of the drop but it is a lot of capital. With this draft alone it could fill up the roster. Still wouldn't like it . If they can't get one of the top 4 QB's, this trade makes perfect sense. It's not too far of a drop at all... You're in prime Penix territory at 28, you still get a top WR in round 2. That's an outstanding deal for the Giants. A lot to give up for the Bills if you ask me. 22 spots is a big drop to me. I also think there is a significant difference between the top 3 WRs and the rest. While it is a deep position, you are talking about drafting a ready made #1 guy vs. guys that could get there but may need a year or two. I am also not in favor of drafting Penix that low. If the Giants think Penix can be "the guy" then get him earlier, dropping that low is a huge risk.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 19, 2024 13:46:11 GMT -5
Think it was top 3 this year 1 next year and their 3, 5 picks all together I didn't like it because of the drop but it is a lot of capital. With this draft alone it could fill up the roster. Still wouldn't like it . If they can't get one of the top 4 QB's, this trade makes perfect sense. It's not too far of a drop at all... You're in prime Penix territory at 28, you still get a top WR in round 2. That's an outstanding deal for the Giants. A lot to give up for the Bills if you ask me. It is a Bill Barnwell trade draft deal so more than likely not happening, Payton Denver deal might be legit if they come calling.
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Post by McCherry on Apr 19, 2024 15:29:04 GMT -5
If they can't get one of the top 4 QB's, this trade makes perfect sense. It's not too far of a drop at all... You're in prime Penix territory at 28, you still get a top WR in round 2. That's an outstanding deal for the Giants. A lot to give up for the Bills if you ask me. 22 spots is a big drop to me. I also think there is a significant difference between the top 3 WRs and the rest. While it is a deep position, you are talking about drafting a ready made #1 guy vs. guys that could get there but may need a year or two. I am also not in favor of drafting Penix that low. If the Giants think Penix can be "the guy" then get him earlier, dropping that low is a huge risk. If you're looking at the first round draft order strategically, It's a good starting spot for Penix. The Giants could use the extra picks to maneuver up if they have to. I think there will be studs at WR drafted in round 2.
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Post by Jomo on Apr 19, 2024 16:40:16 GMT -5
I think depending on how the draft goes if the QB they want is not there, they will trade back. If the target is there and the price is not too steep they will trade up. That is my bold prediction lol I think that is the smartest move. Qb or move back. And if he doesn’t love the QB, yeah it’s a bidding war. That makes sense to me...
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Post by Nick6475 on Apr 19, 2024 17:04:52 GMT -5
22 spots is a big drop to me. I also think there is a significant difference between the top 3 WRs and the rest. While it is a deep position, you are talking about drafting a ready made #1 guy vs. guys that could get there but may need a year or two. I am also not in favor of drafting Penix that low. If the Giants think Penix can be "the guy" then get him earlier, dropping that low is a huge risk. If you're looking at the first round draft order strategically, It's a good starting spot for Penix. The Giants could use the extra picks to maneuver up if they have to. I think there will be studs at WR drafted in round 2. Again, if the Giants think Penix is "the guy" at QB then pick him at 6 or trade up if you think you have to. Don't trade back and " strategically look at the draft order" GUESS if Penix will be available or not. I don't mind trading back, but I think they will only do that if they can't acquire the QB they want and they value more picks over one of the top 3 WRs.
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Post by McCherry on Apr 19, 2024 17:19:59 GMT -5
If you're looking at the first round draft order strategically, It's a good starting spot for Penix. The Giants could use the extra picks to maneuver up if they have to. I think there will be studs at WR drafted in round 2. Again, if the Giants think Penix is "the guy" at QB then pick him at 6 or trade up if you think you have to. Don't trade back and " strategically look at the draft order" GUESS if Penix will be available or not. I don't mind trading back, but I think they will only do that if they can't acquire the QB they want and they value more picks over one of the top 3 WRs. But he's not the guy. He's a fallback guy if they don't get the two QB's we know they like. If that doesn't happen I think it changes their priorities at the QB position. You don't draft Penix 6th because he won't be close to the BPA. You have to be smart about it. I'd rather risk losing Penix than overdrafting him. The Giants also met with Nix and Rattler, who might even be in the conversation.
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Post by Nick6475 on Apr 19, 2024 18:00:01 GMT -5
Again, if the Giants think Penix is "the guy" at QB then pick him at 6 or trade up if you think you have to. Don't trade back and " strategically look at the draft order" GUESS if Penix will be available or not. I don't mind trading back, but I think they will only do that if they can't acquire the QB they want and they value more picks over one of the top 3 WRs. But he's not the guy. He's a fallback guy if they don't get the two QB's we know they like. If that doesn't happen I think it changes their priorities at the QB position. You don't draft Penix 6th because he won't be close to the BPA. You have to be smart about it. I'd rather risk losing Penix than overdrafting him. The Giants also met with Nix and Rattler, who might even be in the conversation. Yeah, we're not going to agree on this. 1. Nobody on this board knows who the Giants like, they are guesses. 2. If they do believe Penix is the guy then drafting him at 6 is not over-drafting (maybe to the mock draft "experts") because the Giants now have their new QB of the future. 3. If they choose a QB, they should be as close to 100% certain he will turn into "the guy", not a "fallback guy" in the first round.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 20, 2024 4:35:46 GMT -5
If they can't get one of the top 4 QB's, this trade makes perfect sense. It's not too far of a drop at all... You're in prime Penix territory at 28, you still get a top WR in round 2. That's an outstanding deal for the Giants. A lot to give up for the Bills if you ask me. 22 spots is a big drop to me. I also think there is a significant difference between the top 3 WRs and the rest. While it is a deep position, you are talking about drafting a ready made #1 guy vs. guys that could get there but may need a year or two. I am also not in favor of drafting Penix that low. If the Giants think Penix can be "the guy" then get him earlier, dropping that low is a huge risk. I agree on the WRs those top 3 have the potential to be difference makers out of the gate, as far as Penix goes he has some technical issues outside his injuries, he looks like a deer in the head lights with the rush, he also has some throwing motion issues kind of like Phillip Rivers did but he doesn't have the movement skills to create space.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 20, 2024 4:41:38 GMT -5
Again, if the Giants think Penix is "the guy" at QB then pick him at 6 or trade up if you think you have to. Don't trade back and " strategically look at the draft order" GUESS if Penix will be available or not. I don't mind trading back, but I think they will only do that if they can't acquire the QB they want and they value more picks over one of the top 3 WRs. But he's not the guy. He's a fallback guy if they don't get the two QB's we know they like. If that doesn't happen I think it changes their priorities at the QB position. You don't draft Penix 6th because he won't be close to the BPA. You have to be smart about it. I'd rather risk losing Penix than overdrafting him. The Giants also met with Nix and Rattler, who might even be in the conversation. Rattler in this draft has top 3 arm talent he has other things that hold him down athleticism is an issue for him he is slow but he is quick to create space and makes throws in the face of pressure he can end up being a steel in round 3 or 4. He played in an offense that he was under pressure 40% of the time and made several throws from different arm angles and platforms.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 20, 2024 4:59:02 GMT -5
If they choose a guy outside the top3 it might be more to have developmental backup on a cheap contract get out of this paying our backup a lot of money, invest a guy who can learn and maybe develop into a starter or high end back up.
I just don't see the value at 6 with anyone after the top 3 I mean our offense stinks and they are gonna draft aQB that has maybe 7.2 grade before a weapon at premium position with a 9.2 grade thats is fireable if that QB fails after investing a huge on Jones. BPA will be tested if all 3 top QBs are off the board and if they push one of these QBs up to satisfy leaving a stud WR sitting there and this QB fails heads will role
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 20, 2024 6:42:41 GMT -5
But he's not the guy. He's a fallback guy if they don't get the two QB's we know they like. If that doesn't happen I think it changes their priorities at the QB position. You don't draft Penix 6th because he won't be close to the BPA. You have to be smart about it. I'd rather risk losing Penix than overdrafting him. The Giants also met with Nix and Rattler, who might even be in the conversation. Rattler in this draft has top 3 arm talent he has other things that hold him down athleticism is an issue for him he is slow but he is quick to create space and makes throws in the face of pressure he can end up being a steel in round 3 or 4. He played in an offense that he was under pressure 40% of the time and made several throws from different arm angles and platforms. imo, the guy is only as steal if he gets on the field and is awesome. This org isn’t in position to go for a 3rd string Qb within the top 100 imo.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 20, 2024 7:15:25 GMT -5
Rattler in this draft has top 3 arm talent he has other things that hold him down athleticism is an issue for him he is slow but he is quick to create space and makes throws in the face of pressure he can end up being a steel in round 3 or 4. He played in an offense that he was under pressure 40% of the time and made several throws from different arm angles and platforms. imo, the guy is only as steal if he gets on the field and is awesome. This org isn’t in position to go for a 3rd string Qb within the top 100 imo. They are not in position to go for anyone in the top 100 that isn't in the top 3 QBs really this roster needs a game changer on offense and to fill out the defense Rattler is gonna be a bottom 3rd top of 4 guy backup territory which they need. I want a QB but I don't want a guy with several flaws a medical sheet longer than Jones coming out at 24. With the amount of high end talent in this draft it would be malpractice to not be disciplined and take BPA if it were close maybe they could push it. These QBs and even Daniels is in that group are not close to the WRs and some of the OLs prospects as far as value goes that said if our guys take Penix Nix who ever I'm backing them they watch hours of these guys meet with them have them breakdown defensive film and offensive film see if there answers translate on live tape. Just not something I would do with the information that we have, I would take a guy who can help whoever QBs the team now and who ever the next guy is in the future they haven't had that in 6 years every QB needs that not just Jones who ever they draft will have it wether it is this year or next if they have no option for a QB take the weapon.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 20, 2024 7:32:52 GMT -5
imo, the guy is only as steal if he gets on the field and is awesome. This org isn’t in position to go for a 3rd string Qb within the top 100 imo. They are not in position to go for anyone in the top 100 that isn't in the top 3 QBs really this roster needs a game changer on offense and to fill out the defense Rattler is gonna be a bottom 3rd top of 4 guy backup territory which they need. I want a QB but I don't want a guy with several flaws a medical sheet longer than Jones coming out at 24. With the amount of high end talent in this draft it would be malpractice to not be disciplined and take BPA if it were close maybe they could push it. These QBs and even Daniels is in that group are not close to the WRs and some of the OLs prospects as far as value goes that said if our guys take Penix Nix who ever I'm backing them they watch hours of these guys meet with them have them breakdown defensive film and offensive film see if there answers translate on live tape. Just not something I would do with the information that we have, I would take a guy who can help whoever QBs the team now and who ever the next guy is in the future they haven't had that in 6 years every QB needs that not just Jones who ever they draft will have it wether it is this year or next if they have no option for a QB take the weapon. Will the WR make the QB better? Or do you want QB who can make receivers better? Forever in a rough spot b/c, like Schoen mentioned, we’re not two players away. No move will make everybody happy or solve every problem. And QB wise, be forewarned. If anybody thinks the hype behind these QBs drives you nuts, wait until next year at this time. Deion Sanders will drive us all nuts.
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