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Post by TEM on Jun 30, 2018 18:39:07 GMT -5
A Lot of problems that may arise the writer points out may be the case. This rule will change the way Football will be played. bleacherreport.com/articles/2783289-new-helmet-rule-could-make-nfl-unrecognizable"The problem is the league itself doesn't seem certain about the rule.
As Deadspin pointed out, the NFL's release indicated the rule won't actually appear on its own in the rulebook, but would instead be "classified as unnecessary roughness." The language for that violation was changed from "using any part of a player's helmet or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily" to "using any part of a player's helmet to butt, spear, or ram an opponent." In other words, the NFL removed the words "violently or unnecessarily."
But after PFT inquired about the weirdness of that and asked why such a huge change was buried in the rulebook, the NFL made things even worse, saying the rule was now Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8, and will read: "Use of the Helmet. It is a foul if a player lowers his head to initiate and make contact with his helmet against an opponent."
I'm not sure people understand the magnitude of the problem this creates.
Under this language, there could be a penalty on literally every single play.
That's not hyperbole."
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Post by Roosevelt on Jun 30, 2018 21:12:09 GMT -5
I'm not suggesting the game will not suffer through the officials trying to implement this new rule but, the author of that article clearly has not done his homework.
Lowering the helmet to avoid contact is not a penalty.
Lowering the helmet to initiate contact and actually making contact is a penalty.
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Post by TEM on Jun 30, 2018 21:49:51 GMT -5
I'm not suggesting the game will not suffer through the officials trying to implement this new rule but, the author of that article clearly has not done his homework.
Lowering the helmet to avoid contact is not a penalty.
Lowering the helmet to initiate contact and actually making contact is a penalty.
I hope that is the case.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jun 30, 2018 22:06:34 GMT -5
I'm not suggesting the game will not suffer through the officials trying to implement this new rule but, the author of that article clearly has not done his homework.
Lowering the helmet to avoid contact is not a penalty.
Lowering the helmet to initiate contact and actually making contact is a penalty.
I hope that is the case.
That is clearly the intent.
Any player who postures to and engages in contact by leading with their head is the target of this rule.
I wish the NFL luck in getting this correct.
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Post by TEM on Jul 1, 2018 9:07:48 GMT -5
That is clearly the intent.
Any player who postures to and engages in contact by leading with their head is the target of this rule.
I wish the NFL luck in getting this correct.
Most backs hit the line, lead with their helmet ( between the tackles) to plow through the defensive front with a small as possible profile and the least amount of surface area to grab onto. It gives forward momentum and leverage for the back. There is the problem, That by rule is now a plenty. I played MLB and FB . As a full back I was coached to run in that way. How are these backs going to change the way they run, since pop warner
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 1, 2018 10:50:11 GMT -5
That is clearly the intent.
Any player who postures to and engages in contact by leading with their head is the target of this rule.
I wish the NFL luck in getting this correct.
Most backs hit the line, lead with their helmet ( between the tackles) to plow through the defensive front with a small as possible profile and the least amount of surface area to grab onto. It gives forward momentum and leverage for the back. There is the problem, That by rule is now a plenty. I played MLB and FB . As a full back I was coached to run in that way. How are these backs going to change the way they run, since pop warner
A RB approaching the line and lowering his head is considered protective posture and will not be called.
Again, the intent is to stop players sizing guys up and taking them out with their helmets.
With that said, I do see the problems to try and officiate this rule. For instance a RB breaks through the line and then a LB approaches as such:
I'd like to hear the NFL explain how they would call this contact.
The bottom line is it could become a nightmare.
I fully expect the preseason to be basically unwatchable due to this ruling, as the league will obviously use these games to emphasize the new fouls.
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Post by Parademon1 on Jul 1, 2018 11:41:45 GMT -5
Great, more penalty flags flying out throughout the game & turning a 3 hr game into a 3:30 min game. A lot of these are gonna be more BS "judgement" calls. Just turn the game into flag football already & lower the ticket prices to $25. Last I checked, football is a COLLISION sport not a "contact" sport.
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Post by TEM on Jul 1, 2018 16:30:41 GMT -5
Most backs hit the line, lead with their helmet ( between the tackles) to plow through the defensive front with a small as possible profile and the least amount of surface area to grab onto. It gives forward momentum and leverage for the back. There is the problem, That by rule is now a plenty. I played MLB and FB . As a full back I was coached to run in that way. How are these backs going to change the way they run, since pop warner
A RB approaching the line and lowering his head is considered protective posture and will not be called.
Again, the intent is to stop players sizing guys up and taking them out with their helmets.
With that said, I do see the problems to try and officiate this rule. For instance a RB breaks through the line and then a LB approaches as such:
I'd like to hear the NFL explain how they would call this contact.
The bottom line is it could become a nightmare.
I fully expect the preseason to be basically unwatchable due to this ruling, as the league will obviously use these games to emphasize the new fouls.
Again I hope you are right.
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Post by TEM on Jul 1, 2018 17:37:38 GMT -5
Article 8: There shall be no unnecessary roughness. This shall include, but will not be limited to: (a) striking an opponent anywhere with the foot or any part of the leg with a whipping motion;
(b) contacting a runner out of bounds; Note: Defensive players must make an effort to avoid contact. Players on defense are responsible for knowing w h e n a r u n n e r h a s c r o s s e d t h e b o u n d a r y li n e , e x c e p t i n d o u b t f u l c a s e s w h e r e h e m i g h t s t e p o n a b o u n d a r y li n e a n d c o n ti n u e p a r a ll e l with it
(c) a member of the receiving team cannot go out of bounds and contact a kicking team player out of bounds. If this occurs on a kick from scrimmage, post-possession rules would apply if appropriate (9 5-1);
(d) running or diving into, or throwing the body against or on a ball carrier who falls or slips to the ground untouched and makes no attempt to advance, before or after the ball is dead;
(e) unnecessarily running, diving into, cutting, or throwing the body against or on a player who (i) is out of the play or (ii) should not have reasonably anticipated such contact by an opponent, before or after the ball is dead; or throwing the runner to the ground after the ball is dead;
(f) a kicker/punter, who is standing still or fading backwards after the ball has been kicked, is out of the play and must not be unnecessarily contacted by the receiving team through the end of the play or until he assumes a distinctly defensive position.
(g) If a player uses any part of his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/”hairline” parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily.
(h) any player who grabs a helmet opening of an opponent and forcibly twists, turns, or pulls his head.
(i) Illegal contact with the helmet against the knee of the snapper during an attempt for a field goal or kick try.
(j) if a player illegally launches into a defenseless opponent. It is an illegal launch if a player (1) leaves both feet prior to contact to spring forward and upward into his opponent, and (2) uses any part of his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/”hairline” parts) to initiate forcible contact against any part of his opponent’s body.
Note: This does not apply to contact against a runner, unless the runner is still considered to be a defenseless p l a y e r , a s
defined in Rule 12, Section 2, Article 9. Penalty
Section J-2 clearly stipulates as a runner you can not lead with your helmet and make contact with the defender. From my perspective that is what it states.
How will the officials interpret this? If they take it literally there could be a helmet penalty on every series in a game.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 1, 2018 19:15:26 GMT -5
I've tried to post a video in response TEM but it will not show. Google the NFL helmet rule and watch Al Riveron explain it and see if the helps to clarify it for you.
However, I will say that I think we all have questions about the rule.
As an example I'm wondering if the Brandon Jacobs run against the Packers in the NFC Championship game where he trucked that DB would now be called a penalty?
I realize that safety is paramount, but the NFL needs to be very careful the don't totally ruin the game.
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Post by TEM on Jul 1, 2018 19:18:46 GMT -5
I've tried to post a video in response TEM but it will not show. Google the NFL helmet rule and watch Al Riveron explain it and see if the helps to clarify it for you. However, I will say that I think we all have questions about the rule. As an example I'm wondering if the Brandon Jacobs run against the Packers in the NFC Championship game where he trucked that DB would now be called a penalty? I realize that safety is paramount, but the NFL needs to be very careful the don't totally ruin the game. Thanks Rosie.
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Post by TEM on Jul 7, 2018 13:09:32 GMT -5
Now even more confusing profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/07/06/incidental-helmet-contact-during-conventional-tackling-or-blocking-is-permitted/ "The new language comes in the form of a “note” that apparently was added at some point after the league (incorrectly) cited to Dom Cosentino of Deadspin.com the unnecessary roughness rule as the codification of the new helmet rule. Here’s the full text of the new note: “This provision does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle or block on an opponent.”" What is conventional blocking and tackling as it pertains to incidental contact entail .? That sounds subjective. Goodell has no standard set as to when it is applicable . It further opens the rule to interoperation by the official .It could go one way in one game by an official and be the opposite in another by a different official. So incidental contact with unconventional blocking and tackling are a penalty? Thanks Rodger. Sounds like you have it all figured out. You fully are deserving of that big raise. SMH
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Post by GameTime on Jul 8, 2018 10:45:33 GMT -5
To me it basically means don’t launch yourself like a missle leading with your head. Most other “normal plays” will be deemed incidental
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Post by TEM on Jul 8, 2018 10:55:22 GMT -5
To me it basically means don’t launch yourself like a missle leading with your head. Most other “normal plays” will be deemed incidental That has already been established as spearing ( for decades).
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Post by GameTime on Jul 9, 2018 6:03:30 GMT -5
To me it basically means don’t launch yourself like a missle leading with your head. Most other “normal plays” will be deemed incidental That has already been established as spearing ( for decades). yeah but it wasnt enforced much at all. Now it will be. There is no way they are going to flag a player for a "normal football move". It would make the game unwatchable.
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Post by TEM on Jul 9, 2018 16:26:21 GMT -5
That has already been established as spearing ( for decades). yeah but it wasnt enforced much at all. Now it will be. There is no way they are going to flag a player for a "normal football move". It would make the game unwatchable. I hope you are right.
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Post by TEM on Jul 29, 2018 9:21:28 GMT -5
Another issue that was not thought of. That is now coming into play. www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000942843/article/roquan-smith-deal-holdup-related-to-new-helmet-ruleRoquan Smith deal holdup related to new helmet rule. "The Bears and Smith are at odds over the financial protections in the contract should the linebacker be suspended for such a hit. Suspensions allow teams to void guaranteed money in contracts. High-volume tacklers, as Smith is expected to be, would likely be more susceptible to violating the new rule than some other positions."
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goldenratio
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Post by goldenratio on Aug 1, 2018 11:42:25 GMT -5
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Post by plax2themax on Aug 1, 2018 12:00:29 GMT -5
I’m really worried about this rule. If implemented strictly, it has the opportunity to ruin the game. The amount of flags will be incredibly annoying. People say the anthem issue has them turning off the tvs, I couldn’t care less, but this has the highest chance to have me turn off the tv. Might be unwatchable.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 1, 2018 12:07:42 GMT -5
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goldenratio
Special Teams
"Son, you all got to do better than this,"
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Post by goldenratio on Aug 1, 2018 12:24:55 GMT -5
What is spearing in the NFL? A penalty called when a defensive player makes a tackle that leads with the crown of his helmet into the offensive player. If the initial contact occurs at the top of the helmet, the tackle is illegal. Spearing is a 15-yard penalty against the defense and an automatic first down. www.google.com/search?q=spearing+in+football&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS806US806&oq=spearing+in+football&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.3799j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8What is the difference between spearing and the new rule? Why is a new spearing type rule neccesary? i don't get it. the danger of implementing a new rule is 2 fold. 1. that the refs start calling everything a penalty 2. that the coaches coach football out of the players in practice for fear of violating the new rule. we'll see if players start playing differently or not oops did not see the other thread. TY can you consolidate them or something? TY
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Aug 1, 2018 12:49:07 GMT -5
Not only that but there are going to be a ton of new refs this year because a bunch retired.....
I smell a disaster waiting to happen.....
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Post by nick030567 on Aug 1, 2018 12:50:31 GMT -5
All of this rule finagling doesn't do a thing besides ruin the flow of the game and make it easier for refs to make momentum shifting calls for entertainment purposes. I know the NFL was and is extremely corrupt (as any big business tends to be), they tried to suppress studies that showed brain trauma in athletes for years. But at some point, now that this has been well established and exposed, you have to let players be accountable for themselves with the knowledge given. You know as both a teen and an adult just how violent and tough of a sport football is. They will never negate brain injuries with ticky-tacky rigid rules, it has to do with the speed of the game. In all reality it has to do with the pads themselves as they give the illusion of security and this allows the players to throw their bodies with full force and speed at their opponents which we see all the time. Think of training camp without the pads. It slows the game down because you have to let up otherwise the contact will hurt. This helps prove my point. Once you put on the pads it becomes a vastly different sport. Think of what Shurmur and others say "we have to wait until the linemen get pads on because the DL have a tendency to let up once they connect with the OL." it's because it hurts. THus you can't throw or ram yourself at full speed at your opponent. But the NFL will not get rid of pads, instead they make these annoying penalties with loose interpretations and buy these new funny looking, marvel comic book, transformer looking helmets which might be more comfortable but will make an insignificant difference in terms of injuries. They won't ban helmets, nor will they go back to leather helmets and extremely little padding because it would totally make the game unnoticeable. But that is the only true solution. All of this constant rule changing for player "protection" is a bunch of bull to give the fans and the players association the false perception that they're trying to make the sport (a gladiator type of sport in this day and age) in to a safer sport. They can't.
They should just ban bulky pads and go back to leather helmets with very little protection. Then the game would slow down. Or they should just let the game be the way it is and stop making all of these ridiculous regulations that don't do anything truly beneficial.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 14:10:42 GMT -5
Players gonna have to learn to rugby tackle
Ironic that pads and helmet in a roundabout way have made the game less safe. Started to be used as weapons/shields to attempt things you would not otherwise with no helmet/face mask /shoulder pads
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Post by nygiantsfan1029 on Aug 1, 2018 15:33:11 GMT -5
In one hand I can’t imagine the headaches this rule cause for pretty much everyone but on the other I can’t fault the NFL for trying to make the game safer.
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Post by Fletch842 on Aug 1, 2018 15:33:28 GMT -5
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Post by TEM on Aug 3, 2018 8:42:29 GMT -5
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Post by nysports98 on Aug 3, 2018 9:38:29 GMT -5
IMO, the #1 issue is the concept of form tackling has changed. Used to be an ankle tackle or wrapping up an opponent at the waist was a form tackle yet not it's not even on the radar. Wish I had the audio and it was mentioned in two articles back in 2008. Marion Barber ran over the Giants in the regular season. Aaron Pierce mentioned "it wasn't manly" to tackle Barber low. Bob Papa and Carl Banks spoke about Spags ripping into the Giant during halftime of the Dallas playoff game after Barber was burying the defense. Spags asked the defense " is it manly to watch yourselves get run over on ESPN highlights". Go watch the 2nd half, Barber was tackled low on almost every play.
Until form tackling is back on the radar, the penalties flags are going to fly b/c the form tackling needed to avoid penalties isn't even on the radar.
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Post by Roosevelt on Aug 3, 2018 11:05:57 GMT -5
Here's more about the helmet rule:
“The doctors in our training camp in Dallas said when the player looks at the ground, your antennae should go up,” Boger said.
In other words, a foul will be called if a player lowers his head so that his eyes are facing the ground and initiates contact with his helmet against an opponent. The helmet won’t have to make contact with a specific body part to draw a foul. The point is to protect the player using his helmet as a weapon just as much as the player absorbing the hit.
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goldenratio
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Post by goldenratio on Aug 4, 2018 16:10:22 GMT -5
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