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Post by giants38 on Aug 18, 2019 21:40:55 GMT -5
If you have an elite receiver, you get the ball to him as often as possible. he needs to be part of the progression not the one and only. Sometimes and this is probably more Eli then any thing he was forcing the issue OBJ is a fantastic WR but not a guy like Plex where if you put anywhere in the zip code he is gonna get it and he was more of an 80/20 when it came to 50/50 balls. Nonsense.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Aug 18, 2019 21:48:28 GMT -5
he needs to be part of the progression not the one and only. Sometimes and this is probably more Eli then any thing he was forcing the issue OBJ is a fantastic WR but not a guy like Plex where if you put anywhere in the zip code he is gonna get it and he was more of an 80/20 when it came to 50/50 balls. Nonsense. LOL guess when OBJ was here they should just throw it to him open or not 15 20 times a game,
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Post by giants38 on Aug 18, 2019 22:03:47 GMT -5
LOL guess when OBJ was here they should just throw it to him open or not 15 20 times a game, More nonsense.
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Post by Jomo on Aug 18, 2019 22:20:05 GMT -5
This is the best young group I can ever remember. A couple will emerge as real assets for our offense. Im so confused... Best group of young WRs? This might be the worst group of WRs to start a season we have had since Eli was drafted. Better than 2011 young core of Cruz, Nicks, Manningham trio? We also had Jernigan, Barden, Hixon on that team... Im not saying some cant make some plays, but this to me is the worst group we have had to start a year... Sorry, I was reflecting on the guys after the top 3. I can see how I misled you. Our next group has been very weak over the past ……...forever. I don't remember a group this competitive fighting for spots #4, 5 and 6 in a long time.
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Post by fifthavephil on Aug 18, 2019 22:36:40 GMT -5
Im so confused... Best group of young WRs? This might be the worst group of WRs to start a season we have had since Eli was drafted. Better than 2011 young core of Cruz, Nicks, Manningham trio? We also had Jernigan, Barden, Hixon on that team... Im not saying some cant make some plays, but this to me is the worst group we have had to start a year... Sorry, I was reflecting on the guys after the top 3. I can see how I misled you. Our next group has been very weak over the past ……...forever. I don't remember a group this competitive fighting for spots #4, 5 and 6 in a long time. Tate ,Sterling and Latimer are the top three. Vets Russell Shepard and Fowler. Slayton, Alonzo Russell and Reggie White. Figure. we will keep six receivers, on roster.
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Post by TEM on Aug 19, 2019 6:00:57 GMT -5
That is fair and true but I think it underscores my point which is, you don't win championships with dynamic receivers, you win with strong defense, strong in the trenches and a balanced TEAM and of course most often a great QB. Wrong If you don't have anything or anyone that forces a defense to allocate time and resources that compromise the overall integrity of the defense and make it vunerable to other things you wont win,unless you have Brady and.Bradys don't grow on trees. Whether it be a 12 formation with 2 matchup nightmare reciever TEs,one or 2 guys that cant be covered by one guy..you need something other than an O line,defense and a RB to win championships these days,including last year where both D lines dominated the game and Brady was off,and Edleman pretty much was the savior,and when the Rams overcompensated it opened up Gronk at the end. Sun Tzu disagrees. “All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.”
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Post by dannydimes8 on Aug 19, 2019 6:56:54 GMT -5
I think this offense will be above average. It scored down the stretch. I’d like to see Barkley sent downfield more rather than waiting for a checkdown which I hope to see minimized in 2019. Engram has been very productive when OBJ hasn’t played, hoping for a 1000 yard season from him which will require health. I hated the Tate signing from an age standpoint and the PED issue only enhanced my hatred of it. Shepard And our 3rd WR should have some big play elements. Barkley behind this improved Oline should make play action a weapon again. If it’s not we are doing something wrong.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 19, 2019 7:18:28 GMT -5
Sorry, I was reflecting on the guys after the top 3. I can see how I misled you. Our next group has been very weak over the past ……...forever. I don't remember a group this competitive fighting for spots #4, 5 and 6 in a long time. Tate ,Sterling and Latimer are the top three. Vets Russell Shepard and Fowler. Slayton, Alonzo Russell and Reggie White. Figure. we will keep six receivers, on roster. Do we get an extra roster spot while Tate is on the PED suspension? I forget how that works. Tate Sterling and Latimer are the top 3, Russell, Fowler and Shepard are my next 3. Slayton and White the next 2. Of course the next 2 games and injuries can change this.
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Post by DandyDon on Aug 19, 2019 7:47:08 GMT -5
Tate ,Sterling and Latimer are the top three. Vets Russell Shepard and Fowler. Slayton, Alonzo Russell and Reggie White. Figure. we will keep six receivers, on roster. Do we get an extra roster spot while Tate is on the PED suspension? I forget how that works. Tate Sterling and Latimer are the top 3, Russell, Fowler and Shepard are my next 3. Slayton and White the next 2. Of course the next 2 games and injuries can change this. Dont know for sure, but I would assume we do. Otherwise it would be punishing the team for what the player did.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Aug 19, 2019 9:19:28 GMT -5
LOL guess when OBJ was here they should just throw it to him open or not 15 20 times a game, .....well, that's what OBJ wanted. Don't know about that. I do know they were Eli was forcing some balls to him when others were open and he wasn't. As I said he is not a Plex type of receiver he has been out muscled more then a few times getting the ball out at the catch point he has great hops but he still is a small guy. Eli could throw 50/50 balls to Plex which was more like am80/20 in Plexs favor and back shoulders OBJ is a great receiver but none of those things were his strong point while here.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Aug 19, 2019 9:31:36 GMT -5
LOL guess when OBJ was here they should just throw it to him open or not 15 20 times a game, More nonsense. Ok I don't play these games go bother some one else. I will leave your post alone don't bother me.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Aug 19, 2019 9:35:29 GMT -5
Tate ,Sterling and Latimer are the top three. Vets Russell Shepard and Fowler. Slayton, Alonzo Russell and Reggie White. Figure. we will keep six receivers, on roster. Do we get an extra roster spot while Tate is on the PED suspension? I forget how that works. Tate Sterling and Latimer are the top 3, Russell, Fowler and Shepard are my next 3. Slayton and White the next 2. Of course the next 2 games and injuries can change this. I think so when he comes off they have to make a decision, if some was is playing well it could be a tough one.
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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 19, 2019 9:46:15 GMT -5
LOL guess when OBJ was here they should just throw it to him open or not 15 20 times a game, .....well, that's what OBJ wanted. And that's just not sound no matter how you look at it.. A dynamic guy is supposed to open everything up Tyreek hill is the reason Watkins finally put up big numbers (also having Kelcey ..oh...their base formation is the 12 btw)and the Chiefs were still able to have a really good running game with even their 3rd string back) Right here is what we SHOULD have been last year with Odell and what to me is what we SHOULD do here 50% out of the 12 meaning we have 2 matchup nightmares that can run block,Barkley ,a dynamic X factor that stresses the defense all over the field,which allows ybe other reciever to flourish...and balance with all 5 playmakers and between run and pase(misconception..the Chiefs actually ran the ball close to 45% of the time which in this era makes them a run heavy team). We run the same style as the Chiefs/Rams/Vikings/Seahawks/Eagles/and Bears... The next time we do get someone dynamic it will be different because all these teams preach balance,
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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 19, 2019 9:58:44 GMT -5
Tate ,Sterling and Latimer are the top three. Vets Russell Shepard and Fowler. Slayton, Alonzo Russell and Reggie White. Figure. we will keep six receivers, on roster. Do we get an extra roster spot while Tate is on the PED suspension? I forget how that works. Tate Sterling and Latimer are the top 3, Russell, Fowler and Shepard are my next 3. Slayton and White the next 2. Of course the next 2 games and injuries can change this. Russell needs to be on this roster,in fact I want to see him return kicks the next 2 games.Hight/Speed and and strength with him returning kicks ...I think it's a no brainer.And what makes him different from the usual preseason superstars(Washington,London,ect)is that he is 200% effort,what he did on that int was not human.He absolutely loves special teams(Carwash hated it). And Slayton has to get a spot as well,all he need to do at this early stage is run some simple sluggo type option routes out side,back shoulder fades,ect.. Build your young guy up slowly,your great ones that work from being a non priority draft spot or a UDFA are built this way because they execute a few things at a high level while not being "the guy"(its how for example Shurmer developed Diggs)then add some branches to the route tree (Slayton really wouldn't be needed to do any more than the simple route tree above other than some lateral behind the line of scrimmage misdirection plays in this scheme with what the rest of the players are doing)
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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 19, 2019 10:08:31 GMT -5
One other thing that relates to this thread
Was watching ths Seahawk/Vikings games last night (mirror image offensive scheme btw for the most part)
Something I didnt know but Seattle actually lines their number 1 reciever out of the skot.Baldwin always ran out of the slot and now Lockett plays out of the slot. Whomever or however that came up is very sound because it now opens up the entire field and also allows for some option routes if reciever has the football IQ to see an opening pre snap and relay the info via hand gesture of something to the qb that he is going option route ..and also makes it harder to double up .
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 12:21:32 GMT -5
I like what little Ive seen of Latimer. could be a go to dude
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Post by GameTime on Aug 19, 2019 12:26:59 GMT -5
I like what little Ive seen of Latimer. could be a go to dude he's been trying to be "that" guy for 6 seasons. Hopefully he has the drive and desire finally to achieve that
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Aug 19, 2019 13:23:44 GMT -5
.....well, that's what OBJ wanted. And that's just not sound no matter how you look at it.. A dynamic guy is supposed to open everything up Tyreek hill is the reason Watkins finally put up big numbers (also having Kelcey ..oh...their base formation is the 12 btw)and the Chiefs were still able to have a really good running game with even their 3rd string back) Right here is what we SHOULD have been last year with Odell and what to me is what we SHOULD do here 50% out of the 12 meaning we have 2 matchup nightmares that can run block,Barkley ,a dynamic X factor that stresses the defense all over the field,which allows ybe other reciever to flourish...and balance with all 5 playmakers and between run and pase(misconception..the Chiefs actually ran the ball close to 45% of the time which in this era makes them a run heavy team). We run the same style as the Chiefs/Rams/Vikings/Seahawks/Eagles/and Bears... The next time we do get someone dynamic it will be different because all these teams preach balance, My post was just answering a wise ass remark, I agree 100% in the second half thought they ran more 12 I hope that trend continues.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Aug 19, 2019 13:28:29 GMT -5
One other thing that relates to this thread Was watching ths Seahawk/Vikings games last night (mirror image offensive scheme btw for the most part) Something I didnt know but Seattle actually lines their number 1 reciever out of the skot.Baldwin always ran out of the slot and now Lockett plays out of the slot. Whomever or however that came up is very sound because it now opens up the entire field and also allows for some option routes if reciever has the football IQ to see an opening pre snap and relay the info via hand gesture of something to the qb that he is going option route ..and also makes it harder to double up . When KG ran an option route heavy offense, it was driving DBs crazy Cruz and Nicks were good reading the defense and Eli's pre snap was and probably in the top 3 in the league.
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Post by McCherry on Aug 19, 2019 13:37:10 GMT -5
Putting this in perspective, what team in the NFC East has dynamic receivers? Behind Cooper, how are the duo of Shepard/Tate not on par with the other starting WR's in the division? Cooper could be could be a dynamic weapon, but his week 1 status is up in the air and has yet to put it all together. Really, Ertz/Barkley are the only offensive skill players in the division I would consider near "elite".
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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 19, 2019 13:54:57 GMT -5
Putting this in perspective, what team in the NFC East has dynamic receivers? Behind Cooper, how are the duo of Shepard/Tate not on par with the other starting WR's in the division? Cooper could be could be a dynamic weapon, but his week 1 status is up in the air and has yet to put it all together. Really, Ertz/Barkley are the only offensive skill players in the division I would consider near "elite". This is so wrong on every level,and your thought process 1.the Eagles have the best 12 formation in the NFL with Ertz and Goetert already, Jefferies is a legit number 1 and Jackson still can blow the top off a defense,especially now that he is just a complementary piece. 2.Cooper is a legit number 1,even as a low end 1 he does just enough to make defenses pay for leaving him in single coverage,which then opens up Zeke,the facts are in the stats and wins after they acquired Cooper And why are you wanting to lower the standards of our offense to your fallacy of the NFC east not having dynamic playmakers or weapons in the first place.
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Post by Roswell on Aug 19, 2019 15:21:45 GMT -5
I think we have a great group of young wide outs. This is the best young group I can ever remember. A couple will emerge as real assets for our offense. I love what the Giants did. Trading the headache, giving someone else his number right away, turning the page.... Drama free camp. No stupid interviews. Finally can enjoy football again without the nonsense.
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Post by Roswell on Aug 19, 2019 15:24:39 GMT -5
This is the best young group I can ever remember. A couple will emerge as real assets for our offense. Im so confused... Best group of young WRs? This might be the worst group of WRs to start a season we have had since Eli was drafted. Better than 2011 young core of Cruz, Nicks, Manningham trio? We also had Jernigan, Barden, Hixon on that team... Im not saying some cant make some plays, but this to me is the worst group we have had to start a year... Hixon granted but Jernigan and Barden? Stop.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 19, 2019 15:55:37 GMT -5
Im so confused... Best group of young WRs? This might be the worst group of WRs to start a season we have had since Eli was drafted. Better than 2011 young core of Cruz, Nicks, Manningham trio? We also had Jernigan, Barden, Hixon on that team... Im not saying some cant make some plays, but this to me is the worst group we have had to start a year... Hixon granted but Jernigan and Barden? Stop. The expectations of those 2? Absolutely. We all had big dreams of what JJ and Ramses could do. Certainly more than Alonzo Rusell and Reggie White Jr... 2 third round picks vs 2 UDFA pickups.
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Post by Roswell on Aug 19, 2019 16:00:06 GMT -5
Hixon granted but Jernigan and Barden? Stop. The expectations of those 2? Absolutely. We all had big dreams of what JJ and Ramses could do. Certainly more than Alonzo Rusell and Reggie White Jr... 2 third round picks vs 2 UDFA pickups. Fair enough. Expectations wise I can see your point.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 19, 2019 16:03:19 GMT -5
The expectations of those 2? Absolutely. We all had big dreams of what JJ and Ramses could do. Certainly more than Alonzo Rusell and Reggie White Jr... 2 third round picks vs 2 UDFA pickups. Fair enough. Expectations wise I can see your point. Im actually still surprised Barden didnt make it. He absolutely looked dominant at times physically and caught everything thrown his way.
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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 19, 2019 16:09:07 GMT -5
Fair enough. Expectations wise I can see your point. Im actually still surprised Barden didnt make it. He absolutely looked dominant at times physically and caught everything thrown his way. The play at the end of that Sunday night game in Philly in 2012 where if he just locates the ball he runs under it for an easy TD(where instead he inexplicably mugs a beaten Asemwhah costing the Giants 10 yards and out of fg range,the game that ultimately cost the Giants the division)was his ultimate demise
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Post by lasion2 on Aug 19, 2019 16:42:41 GMT -5
We need one, I don’t think that’s debatable.
Whether we already have one is going to be really interesting to watch. 4 of these guys are gonna get a chance this season, and then again next preseason.
For what it’s worth I think we’re gonna need to spend a draft pick in the top 2 rounds on our guy. But, I’d love to see one of the “no names” step up and make Tate expendable.
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Post by McCherry on Aug 19, 2019 17:40:32 GMT -5
Putting this in perspective, what team in the NFC East has dynamic receivers? Behind Cooper, how are the duo of Shepard/Tate not on par with the other starting WR's in the division? Cooper could be could be a dynamic weapon, but his week 1 status is up in the air and has yet to put it all together. Really, Ertz/Barkley are the only offensive skill players in the division I would consider near "elite". This is so wrong on every level,and your thought process 1.the Eagles have the best 12 formation in the NFL with Ertz and Goetert already, Jefferies is a legit number 1 and Jackson still can blow the top off a defense,especially now that he is just a complementary piece. 2.Cooper is a legit number 1,even as a low end 1 he does just enough to make defenses pay for leaving him in single coverage,which then opens up Zeke,the facts are in the stats and wins after they acquired Cooper And why are you wanting to lower the standards of our offense to your fallacy of the NFC east not having dynamic playmakers or weapons in the first place. Alshon Jeffery is not a #1 WR by any stretch. It's been 5 years since his last 1000yd season. Jackson is 32 and his numbers have declined every season and fans talk about Tate being old? I gave you Cooper, but the drop-off from him to the rest of the Cowboys WR's is dramatic... Again, outside of Cooper/Ertz, I don't know how you place Tate, Engram, Shepard behind the rest of the division if we base any value on stats and production.
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Post by lasion2 on Aug 19, 2019 18:47:01 GMT -5
Sometimes the threat of the X out is enough to produce a dynamic rpo/12 formation game in the eagles case. Add in a top line and an mvp caliber qb....
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