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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 19, 2019 19:07:56 GMT -5
Sometimes the threat of the X out is enough to produce a dynamic rpo/12 formation game in the eagles case. Add in a top line and an mvp caliber qb.... A 12 with 2 TEs that are legit recievers that are matchup nightmares can also act like a dynamic playmaker as well,Jeffries is indeed a number 1 that makes teams pay when in single coverage,which teams have to do when you have Ertz and Goetert running rampant all over the field and can block as well
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Post by Fletch842 on Aug 20, 2019 6:07:46 GMT -5
Aren't Saquon and Engram dynamic playmakers as well? It doesn't only have to come from the WR slot.
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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 20, 2019 7:48:01 GMT -5
Aren't Saquon and Engram dynamic playmakers as well? It doesn't only have to come from the WR slot. Yes and no. For Engram to be dynamic he needs a 2nd legit pass catching threat to open up the offense as 2 matchup nightmares crate a ****ton of issues for the defense,which will open everything else up I feel we might have this on the roster already,either if they use Ellison to his full capacities in the passing game or Conrad is as advertised. Barkley can be gameplned out if there isnt anything to clear out the box or keep people from sitting in a shallow zone to blitz him on every play(see Tennessee game)
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Post by bringsimmsback on Aug 20, 2019 10:50:57 GMT -5
Aren't Saquon and Engram dynamic playmakers as well? It doesn't only have to come from the WR slot. Yes and no. For Engram to be dynamic he needs a 2nd legit pass catching threat to open up the offense as 2 matchup nightmares crate a ****ton of issues for the defense,which will open everything else up I feel we might have this on the roster already,either if they use Ellison to his full capacities in the passing game or Conrad is as advertised. Barkley can be gameplned out if there isnt anything to clear out the box or keep people from sitting in a shallow zone to blitz him on every play(see Tennessee game) I think Barckley is a bit of a wildcard at this point. He may end up being one of those players that set a new model. If he can effectively take on some WR like routes, he may be the fix for the problems you see. Not saying this is the case, just saying that they have talked him up as touched by God and he did seem pretty amazing so I don't think it is crazy to think of him as being mold-breaker type of player. All that said, I'm more confident in Engram and Ellison stepping up to fill the void you've mentioned (if Engram plays more than he has in the past, that is).
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yoho
Special Teams
Posts: 1,848
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Post by yoho on Aug 20, 2019 14:06:10 GMT -5
What does “dynamic” really mean? Does it means guy who can take it to the house on any given play? Because that usually requires speed. We have four guys with good speed... Slayton, Ladimer, and Zo Russel. Then there is Tate that has league high yac. Then we have Fowler, who has a large frame and uses body position. Then we have TJ Jones, who is quick, runs good routes, and is getting open, very similar to what Sterling Shepard brings. All of them have been showing good hands. I think it’s a solid group. Engram only adds to this. I think if you have an OBJ who is open on almost every play, that is s nice to have, but if you have a consistent running game, spreading the ball around can be affective as well.
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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 20, 2019 15:46:16 GMT -5
What does “dynamic” really mean? Does it means guy who can take it to the house on any given play? Because that usually requires speed. We have four guys with good speed... Slayton, Ladimer, and Zo Russel. Then there is Tate that has league high yac. Then we have Fowler, who has a large frame and uses body position. Then we have TJ Jones, who is quick, runs good routes, and is getting open, very similar to what Sterling Shepard brings. All of them have been showing good hands. I think it’s a solid group. Engram only adds to this. I think if you have an OBJ who is open on almost every play, that is s nice to have, but if you have a consistent running game, spreading the ball around can be affective as well. Dynamic/number 1 type of guy Someone to force a defense to change the way it plays against you,or on conjunction with having a really good 12 formation Until I see proof otherwise (where we are getting the required 400 yards plus/27 points plus and winning TOP regularly to be considered relevant in the league that something is causing)its TBD at best if this is on the roster
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Post by McCherry on Aug 20, 2019 17:09:02 GMT -5
What does “dynamic” really mean? Does it means guy who can take it to the house on any given play? Because that usually requires speed. We have four guys with good speed... Slayton, Ladimer, and Zo Russel. Then there is Tate that has league high yac. Then we have Fowler, who has a large frame and uses body position. Then we have TJ Jones, who is quick, runs good routes, and is getting open, very similar to what Sterling Shepard brings. All of them have been showing good hands. I think it’s a solid group. Engram only adds to this. I think if you have an OBJ who is open on almost every play, that is s nice to have, but if you have a consistent running game, spreading the ball around can be affective as well. NFL offenses are not run by gimmick players who can take it to the house on any given play. The majority of successful pass plays in any game are routine routes that were effectively executed. Is Cody Latimer dynamic because he made an over-the-shoulder catch of a perfectly thrown pass in tight coverage? Jones identified singe coverage and did his job. All Latimer did was catch the ball. We're seeing what happens when a QB has time for a play to develop, go through his progressions and find the open receiver. Wait until we can run play action with the best RB in football.
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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 20, 2019 17:34:39 GMT -5
What does “dynamic” really mean? Does it means guy who can take it to the house on any given play? Because that usually requires speed. We have four guys with good speed... Slayton, Ladimer, and Zo Russel. Then there is Tate that has league high yac. Then we have Fowler, who has a large frame and uses body position. Then we have TJ Jones, who is quick, runs good routes, and is getting open, very similar to what Sterling Shepard brings. All of them have been showing good hands. I think it’s a solid group. Engram only adds to this. I think if you have an OBJ who is open on almost every play, that is s nice to have, but if you have a consistent running game, spreading the ball around can be affective as well. NFL offenses are not run by gimmick players who can take it to the house on any given play. The majority of successful pass plays in any game are routine routes that were effectively executed. Is Cody Latimer dynamic because he made an over-the-shoulder catch of a perfectly thrown pass in tight coverage? Jones identified singe coverage and did his job. All Latimer did was catch the ball. We're seeing what happens when a QB has time for a play to develop, go through his progressions and find the open receiver. Wait until we can run play action with the best RB in football. And that's the big misconception. This offense (as does its contemporaries in Kansas city,LA,Philly,Chicago,Indy,Minnesota and Sea9)functions at an extraordinary high level when all the components do the jobs they are supposed to do that at the end of the day,if it is the qb has a glaring mismatch (,or multiple) he can exploit making the correct call on the line. All of these teams (the biggest misconception with those offenses )are run heavy(or are supposed to be.)because if the playmakers are doing their job or threaten a defense with known personnel there will be a huge arrow pointing at the heart of the defense saying "run the ball here and keep doing it until the defense adjusts or dies " At the same time if the defense overlays the run there will be mismatches in the passing game all over the field if there is a number 1/dynamic type guy also frightening the defense into overcompensating.. And also a staple of these offenses are all the misdirection horizontal plays/action behind the LOS,the end arounds,jet sweeps, and fakes which creates more chaos for the defense to decipher...now add in play action/RPO.. This is what we will be doing, Its TBD if we have all the parts we need to be up there with the standard setters that also run this A gimmick offense is what Baltimore is running ..
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Post by Kase1 on Aug 20, 2019 17:45:08 GMT -5
Everyone needs to remember that we won Super Bowls with WR named Manuel, Johnson and McConkey. The game has changed but we don't need more "name guys" out there. We need guys who are hungry, smart and looking to make plays. We haven't even seen Shepherd yet... We'll be plenty good at WR this year.. To be fair. We won with those guys on the backs of Taylor, Carson, Bavaro, Marshall and many others. The receivers on those great teams just so happened to be playing on some of the best Giants teams in the franchises history. To be fair we also won with Toomer, Plax, Cruz and Nicks all of which were at the top of their game and top of the league Its a MUCH different game than when we won with LT, Carson, Bavaro, etc
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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 20, 2019 17:59:19 GMT -5
To be fair. We won with those guys on the backs of Taylor, Carson, Bavaro, Marshall and many others. The receivers on those great teams just so happened to be playing on some of the best Giants teams in the franchises history. To be fair we also won with Toomer, Plax, Cruz and Nicks all of which were at the top of their game and top of the league Its a MUCH different game than when we won with LT, Carson, Bavaro, etc This argument from people stuck in the ancient past is getting old Thank God our regime seems to actually be on the cutting edge with what they are trying to do
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yoho
Special Teams
Posts: 1,848
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Post by yoho on Aug 21, 2019 8:41:53 GMT -5
This argument from people stuck in the ancient past is getting old Thank God our regime seems to actually be on the cutting edge with what they are trying to do Might be getting old but it's a proven way to win. The rules changes have taken the teeth out of defenses, and the old Giants way of hard nosed defense. The way you can’t touch receivers has given the advantage to passing the ball, so if you can’t pass with the rest of the teams in the league, you just won’t be there in the end. You need to be able to score points quickly. It was however very interesting that New England basically ran the ball down their opponents throats in the playoffs last year, after being pass heavy all year.
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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 21, 2019 9:10:44 GMT -5
Might be getting old but it's a proven way to win. The rules changes have taken the teeth out of defenses, and the old Giants way of hard nosed defense. The way you can’t touch receivers has given the advantage to passing the ball, so if you can’t pass with the rest of the teams in the league, you just won’t be there in the end. You need to be able to score points quickly. It was however very interesting that New England basically ran the ball down their opponents throats in the playoffs last year, after being pass heavy all year. And you know why? Teams feared their passing game so much that it was littarly a gimmie 6 yards a pop.(if we had even an average O line in 2011 with how teams played us it would have been the same)So again the pass/or the threat of it)set up the run. All your dynamic offenses run it quite well and with balance because teams have something to fear enough to give teams the ability to pound it and use the short/air raid concepts underneath.
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