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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 18, 2019 10:47:25 GMT -5
What if Eli find his fountain of youth and plays great this year and forces the Giants to play him all year long? Is it a no doubt 100% we just let him go after this season and start DJ in 2020? What if he told Gettleman last Jan that he is done after this year no matter what and wants to go out on a high note. Nothing wrong with leaving with a little in the tank. I'd rather have his last memory being a good one than a qb on the bench a broken down shell of himself that hung on a year long He hasnt been good the past 4-5 years though. Some would say longer.
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Post by Roosevelt on Aug 18, 2019 11:31:20 GMT -5
I admit that is my interpretation and its not based on anything ( other than my take on what ever the talk between DG and Eli was) I read but that mid set does not show a lack of confidence in Eli at all. Its just a game plan for the season. If Eli plays great and the offense produces then ride it. If he doesnt then for the first time in 15 seasons they have their legit shot at the next franchise QB. The entire short leash narrative suggests lack of confidence in the QB . Any HC that puts a guy behind center that he lacks confidence in is not a good HC. TEM, do you have any idea how Eli will play this year? Either do I.
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Post by TEM on Aug 18, 2019 11:42:01 GMT -5
The entire short leash narrative suggests lack of confidence in the QB . Any HC that puts a guy behind center that he lacks confidence in is not a good HC. TEM, do you have any idea how Eli will play this year? Either do I. None of us do, but if the HC has any reservations and plays him. That is what a short leash suggests. I see that as a problem . Do you agree?
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Post by Delicreep on Aug 18, 2019 11:42:22 GMT -5
The entire short leash narrative suggests lack of confidence in the QB . Any HC that puts a guy behind center that he lacks confidence in is not a good HC. TEM, do you have any idea how Eli will play this year? Either do I. Sounds like Mara is saying he doesn’t know either...and there is a plan in place if he doesnt
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 11:48:51 GMT -5
TEM, do you have any idea how Eli will play this year? Either do I. None of us do, but if the HC has any reservations and plays him. That is what a short leash suggests. I see that as a problem . Do you agree? I do. If PS as ANY reservations about Eli, he should definitely start Jones.
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Post by McCherry on Aug 18, 2019 12:12:07 GMT -5
Eli threw for over 4,000 yards and completed 66% of his passes while being sacked 47 times last year. If he's the starting QB week 1, he'll be the last player on the field I'll be worrying about.
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Post by Sarcasman on Aug 18, 2019 12:16:44 GMT -5
wow...like this is ground breaking news??. Who doesnt think this is the scenario?? Eli starts with a short to very short leash. By that I mean he will get 4 to 5 games of poor performance before he is pulled. In the best case scenario for the team Eli plays very well and they make the playoffs. Eli retires or goes elsewhere and Jones steps in next season. IMO......I would rather have Jones in at some point this season other than mop up. But that means they are not doing well but I want to this kid in sooner rather than later because he is like a new toy I do not think Eli is on a shot leash. That is fabricated and it keeps being parroted . Not once has anyone inside the organization stated that. There is no logic in that thinking If he is on a short leash as some believe. It can be interpreted as lack of faith in the starting QB .If the HC has any questioning about the QBs abilities. The HC should not start him period . If he does, He is not HC material. Not at any time , even a leak coming out of the FO has there been a question about Eli's abilities. I think the short leash story is real, just not in the way many of the greenhorn GMs think. The leash refers to the team's performance. I think the fallacy here is that Manning somehow has some control over his destiny, he doesn't. The team's play will likely dictate how long he remains in the starting role. It's gonna be severely disappointing when he gets sacked and then throws an incompletion in the first game and Shurmur doesn't make the switch. I may need to quickly open up a TV repair shop.
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Post by roundabout on Aug 18, 2019 12:17:42 GMT -5
Eli threw for over 4,000 yards and completed 66% of his passes while being sacked 47 times last year. If he's the starting QB week 1, he'll be the last player on the field I'll be worrying about. You can put up all the stats you want .. from the eye test he definitely did not have a good year last year. Stats Can definitely be deceiving
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Post by Sarcasman on Aug 18, 2019 12:20:42 GMT -5
That makes no sense at all. Either you go with a Qb or do not. If HC questions his starting QB abilities ,that is what you are implying . Then the HC is a clueless moron. I do not see Pat as that. The last HC was an on doubter. It makes total sense, you just don't like the narrative. Or what you "perceive" as the narrative. Eli is the starting QB until PS changes that. Eli and DJ's play will determine when that happens. Could not be any clearer. I am not implying anything. I think there is a larger variable at play in this scenario, the team's record.
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Post by Sarcasman on Aug 18, 2019 12:25:03 GMT -5
nope...this is Eli's swan song no matter how he plays. At least thats my view So this is the it On a short lash and if he plays good , he is gone . I am glad I have more faith in the FO than some do. Because if he can get to the Playoffs and beyond. I see an extension. I don't. At most I could see a year to year thing like the Saints are doing with Brees but even that would shock me. I think it would take a SB win for that to even be floated as a possibility, particularly when it would create an unlikely but somewhat perfect coda. I doubt you'll see them make the same mistake as Pittsburgh.
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Post by Sarcasman on Aug 18, 2019 12:26:00 GMT -5
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Merc
Special Teams
Posts: 1,679
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Post by Merc on Aug 18, 2019 12:27:14 GMT -5
Eli now has a decent OL to play behind. I expect him to up his game. If not DJ is waiting in the wings. So far we have 4 QBs that are performing well. I see potential of trading at least 1. Keeping a third as a future #2 is possible.
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Post by Sarcasman on Aug 18, 2019 12:30:17 GMT -5
Of course Eli is starting the season. Outside maybe 2 people everyone else knew it was Eli's job from day one. This is Eli's swan song, I find it very unlikely Eli his getting an extension this year. The Giants made that clear when they drafted Jones 6th overall. Giants mgt and coaching staff have already made the heart to heart talk with Eli. If I were to guess they told him this is most likely your last season with the club, we will give you every opportunity to go out on your terms this season. But if it gets way out of hand we have to pull you and put Jones in. Eli is a competitor but he's also not a dummy. This is a business first, hurting feelings is part of the game. Take it too personal and you'll end up being like Beckham or Collins. Most of us want to see Jones play right away, I know I do. Get the kid out there make him earn his bones and take his lumps and learn on the field and not on the sidelines. We'll see a lot of terrible plays but that's what rookies do, have to learn from it. But the Giants are not that type of franchise, they want Jones to crawl before they teach him how to walk. They don't want to damage him mentally before he even knows what hit him. 2 pre season games and he looks like he has what it takes. But realistically he has not seen anything yet.. Once the season starts he's going to see the level of the competition change dramatically, the scheme which the opposing defenses will run will look like he's reading instructions in a different language. There's a reason quarterbacks get paid so well, it's the most difficult position and most valuable position in the game. And lastly because I think we all tend to forget I know I have. The face of the franchise, the consummate professional on and off the field, the 2x super bowl MVP might be his last season in blue. Let's try and enjoy it.. Let's all pause to reflect on this great post. 4....3...2...1 - OK, that's enough. Back to your respective partisan bunkers.
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Post by McCherry on Aug 18, 2019 13:05:54 GMT -5
Eli threw for over 4,000 yards and completed 66% of his passes while being sacked 47 times last year. If he's the starting QB week 1, he'll be the last player on the field I'll be worrying about. Stats Can definitely be deceiving Especially when they don't support your opinion.
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Post by Sarcasman on Aug 18, 2019 13:19:43 GMT -5
Eli threw for over 4,000 yards and completed 66% of his passes while being sacked 47 times last year. If he's the starting QB week 1, he'll be the last player on the field I'll be worrying about. You can put up all the stats you want .. from the eye test he definitely did not have a good year last year. Stats Can definitely be deceiving When in doubt or unhappy with what the data indicates always go with the most subjective and least reliable recollection.
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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 18, 2019 13:50:33 GMT -5
You can put up all the stats you want .. from the eye test he definitely did not have a good year last year. Stats Can definitely be deceiving When in doubt or unhappy with what the data indicates always go with the most subjective and least reliable recollection. Unbelievable This is why I stay out of 90% of these Eli war threads.. Everyone is moving the goalposts to the point both sets are now in the parking lot.
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Post by Roosevelt on Aug 18, 2019 14:23:26 GMT -5
TEM, do you have any idea how Eli will play this year? Either do I. None of us do, but if the HC has any reservations and plays him. That is what a short leash suggests. I see that as a problem . Do you agree? The first thing Shurmur told Eli after they drafted Jones is that it’s Eli’s job to keep Jones on the bench. I don’t think anything’s changed. I think Shurmur will play the guy he feels gives us the best chance to win. At least I hope so.
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Post by boxcarwillie on Aug 18, 2019 14:48:47 GMT -5
Pat Shurmur- 16 more seasons NYG Head Coach 12 playoff births 7 trips to NFC Championship Game 4 Super Bowl appearances 3 Super Bowl titles Why do so many people look to start over again so quickly? Stay the course ! 😎
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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 18, 2019 16:00:42 GMT -5
Pat Shurmur- 16 more seasons NYG Head Coach 12 playoff births 7 trips to NFC Championship Game 4 Super Bowl appearances 3 Super Bowl titles Why do so many people look to start over again so quickly? Stay the course ! 😎 The instant gratification crowd
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Post by TEM on Aug 18, 2019 16:05:06 GMT -5
None of us do, but if the HC has any reservations and plays him. That is what a short leash suggests. I see that as a problem . Do you agree? The first thing Shurmur told Eli after they drafted Jones is that it’s Eli’s job to keep Jones on the bench. I don’t think anything’s changed. I think Shurmur will play the guy he feels gives us the best chance to win. At least I hope so. I agree 100%
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Post by TEM on Aug 18, 2019 16:11:25 GMT -5
I do not think Eli is on a shot leash. That is fabricated and it keeps being parroted . Not once has anyone inside the organization stated that. There is no logic in that thinking If he is on a short leash as some believe. It can be interpreted as lack of faith in the starting QB .If the HC has any questioning about the QBs abilities. The HC should not start him period . If he does, He is not HC material. Not at any time , even a leak coming out of the FO has there been a question about Eli's abilities. I think the short leash story is real, just not in the way many of the greenhorn GMs think. The leash refers to the team's performance. I think the fallacy here is that Manning somehow has some control over his destiny, he doesn't. The team's play will likely dictate how long he remains in the starting role. It's gonna be severely disappointing when he gets sacked and then throws an incompletion in the first game and Shurmur doesn't make the switch. I may need to quickly open up a TV repair shop. Now we are getting into the meat of the conversation . It is a team thing. Just my opinion . If you replace the vet QB because the team around him is substandard with the rookie . How can the rookie thrive? it is a paradox.
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Post by TEM on Aug 18, 2019 16:18:47 GMT -5
None of us do, but if the HC has any reservations and plays him. That is what a short leash suggests. I see that as a problem . Do you agree? I do. If PS as ANY reservations about Eli, he should definitely start Jones. You are spot on. Out of respect for Eli ( he deserves it ) you don't put him on a string.
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Post by Sarcasman on Aug 18, 2019 16:19:19 GMT -5
Pat Shurmur- 16 more seasons NYG Head Coach 12 playoff births 7 trips to NFC Championship Game 4 Super Bowl appearances 3 Super Bowl titles Why do so many people look to start over again so quickly? Stay the course ! 😎 The instant gratification crowd Works great in fantasy..
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Post by Sarcasman on Aug 18, 2019 16:25:45 GMT -5
I think the short leash story is real, just not in the way many of the greenhorn GMs think. The leash refers to the team's performance. I think the fallacy here is that Manning somehow has some control over his destiny, he doesn't. The team's play will likely dictate how long he remains in the starting role. It's gonna be severely disappointing when he gets sacked and then throws an incompletion in the first game and Shurmur doesn't make the switch. I may need to quickly open up a TV repair shop. Now we are getting into the meat of the conversation . It is a team thing. Just my opinion . If you replace the vet QB because the team around him is substandard with the rookie . How can the rookie thrive? it is a paradox. He likely can't but he can accomplish two important things: firstly he'll run around a bit which will be exciting and he will make some plays that way. The overall results won't be different but sometimes simple motion is enough to placate mouthbreathers. More importantly it gets him in pro games at pro speed so he can log the necessary reps. I think it will help immensely and be critical to his development and growth. The sooner that starts the better.
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Post by TEM on Aug 18, 2019 16:40:29 GMT -5
Now we are getting into the meat of the conversation . It is a team thing. Just my opinion . If you replace the vet QB because the team around him is substandard with the rookie . How can the rookie thrive? it is a paradox. He likely can't but he can accomplish two important things: firstly he'll run around a bit which will be exciting and he will make some plays that way. The overall results won't be different but sometimes simple motion is enough to placate mouthbreathers. More importantly it gets him in pro games at pro speed so he can log the necessary reps. I think it will help immensely and be critical to his development and growth. The sooner that starts the better. I am on the other side of the fence on that. I have a theory on why the NFL's QB failure rate is so high. It is because rookie QB are placed into unfavorable situations. They attempt to counter the poor production the rest of the team is creating . In order to counter the inept play of the team. The Qb takes on patriarchal role. Most are not experienced enough to do that. In order to compensate for his lack of experience . The Qb engages in reckless mannerism that put his confidence in a compromising ordeal . That then become bad habits. I do not want that to happen to DJ. I would rather see Eli get abused out there than the rookie placed into a situation he can not thrive in.
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Post by Delicreep on Aug 18, 2019 16:51:43 GMT -5
None of us do, but if the HC has any reservations and plays him. That is what a short leash suggests. I see that as a problem . Do you agree? The first thing Shurmur told Eli after they drafted Jones is that it’s Eli’s job to keep Jones on the bench. I don’t think anything’s changed. I think Shurmur will play the guy he feels gives us the best chance to win. At least I hope so. Spot on. But I think there's a better window for the team to move on from Eli. Ben "benched" Eli for Geno, the answer to a question no one asked. No one on the planet thought that Geno was our future. If we are not winning, people will be clamoring to see Jones...even more than they are now!
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Post by Delicreep on Aug 18, 2019 16:57:17 GMT -5
I think the short leash story is real, just not in the way many of the greenhorn GMs think. The leash refers to the team's performance. I think the fallacy here is that Manning somehow has some control over his destiny, he doesn't. The team's play will likely dictate how long he remains in the starting role. It's gonna be severely disappointing when he gets sacked and then throws an incompletion in the first game and Shurmur doesn't make the switch. I may need to quickly open up a TV repair shop. Now we are getting into the meat of the conversation . It is a team thing. Just my opinion . If you replace the vet QB because the team around him is substandard with the rookie . How can the rookie thrive? it is a paradox. I am OK with the team actually doing worse with DJ*, if it means he learns and grows. *I am not saying we will...it's an example.
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Post by TEM on Aug 18, 2019 17:05:32 GMT -5
Now we are getting into the meat of the conversation . It is a team thing. Just my opinion . If you replace the vet QB because the team around him is substandard with the rookie . How can the rookie thrive? it is a paradox. I am OK with the team actually doing worse with DJ*, if it means he learns and grows. *I am not saying we will...it's an example. That is good side . I am worried about the the other side that can be a reality. Which seems to be more often than not . The side where the QB takes on bad habits because of the over compensation for the bad team around him . Those bad habits can become permanent. That is my worry with the "bad team" mid-season switch scenario.
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Post by KingCap88 on Aug 18, 2019 17:30:53 GMT -5
Eli is the franchise QB so he's going to be the starter. But he's going to be on a shorter leash since he's never had a potential successor waiting in the wings to take his job. While the Giants would ideally like Eli to be the starter for the entire year, I don't doubt that they'd bench him for Jones if Eli struggles and the season starts slipping away. What if Eli find his fountain of youth and plays great this year and forces the Giants to play him all year long? Is it a no doubt 100% we just let him go after this season and start DJ in 2020? If Eli plays well then there's no reason for the Giants to start Jones this year. But the beginning of the end of the Eli Era began the minute the Giants spent a Top 10 pick on Jones after multiple losing seasons with an aging, expensive QB. The only real mystery is how the transition will take place. Will the Giants handle it the way they did with Eli and Kurt Warner and bench Eli the first chance they get OR will they do it like the Chiefs did with Smith and Mahomes and move on after the season regardless of whether Eli played well or not?
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Post by Delicreep on Aug 18, 2019 17:37:29 GMT -5
I am OK with the team actually doing worse with DJ*, if it means he learns and grows. *I am not saying we will...it's an example. That is good side . I am worried about the the other side that can be a reality. Which seems to be more often than not . The side where the QB takes on bad habits because of the over compensation for the bad team around him . Those bad habits can become permanent. That is my worry with the "bad team" mid-season switch scenario. I do get that...it's a worthwhile risk in my opinion. I also take into account what they have been saying what is between DJ's ears. Coach a smart player up and he can deal with anything. Carr was really the only QB I can think of that never really had a chance; catch is, we really have no idea if he ever would have turned out anyway.
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