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Post by JoeBigBlue on Aug 18, 2019 18:12:58 GMT -5
That is good side . I am worried about the the other side that can be a reality. Which seems to be more often than not . The side where the QB takes on bad habits because of the over compensation for the bad team around him . Those bad habits can become permanent. That is my worry with the "bad team" mid-season switch scenario. I do get that...it's a worthwhile risk in my opinion. I also take into account what they have been saying what is between DJ's ears. Coach a smart player up and he can deal with anything. Carr was really the only QB I can think of that never really had a chance; catch is, we really have no idea if he ever would have turned out anyway. IMO Carr could've been a starter on a few of today's NFL teams....he wasn't a bad QB....
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Post by Roosevelt on Aug 18, 2019 18:57:53 GMT -5
TEM, do you have any idea how Eli will play this year? Either do I. Sounds like Mara is saying he doesn’t know either...and there is a plan in place if he doesnt
We've been told that just like it was Tom's decision on when in 2004, it's Pat's decision this year.
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Aug 18, 2019 19:00:31 GMT -5
Sounds like Mara is saying he doesn’t know either...and there is a plan in place if he doesnt
We've been told that just like it was Tom's decision on when in 2004, it's Pat's decision this year.
Tom= 3 letter name with a T Pat= 3 letter name with a T T= Team.....Super Bowl Team.....
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Post by Roosevelt on Aug 18, 2019 19:07:13 GMT -5
We've been told that just like it was Tom's decision on when in 2004, it's Pat's decision this year.
Tom= 3 letter name with a T Pat= 3 letter name with a T T= Team.....Super Bowl Team.....
Everything is just falling into place.
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Post by Delicreep on Aug 18, 2019 19:07:30 GMT -5
Sounds like Mara is saying he doesn’t know either...and there is a plan in place if he doesnt
We've been told that just like it was Tom's decision on when in 2004, it's Pat's decision this year.
I feel Pat will pull that trigger when it needs to be pulled. Realistically, Tom couldn't have been seeing much from Eli...let's hope DJ continues to shine.
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Post by Sarcasman on Aug 18, 2019 22:33:16 GMT -5
He likely can't but he can accomplish two important things: firstly he'll run around a bit which will be exciting and he will make some plays that way. The overall results won't be different but sometimes simple motion is enough to placate mouthbreathers. More importantly it gets him in pro games at pro speed so he can log the necessary reps. I think it will help immensely and be critical to his development and growth. The sooner that starts the better. I am on the other side of the fence on that. I have a theory on why the NFL's QB failure rate is so high. It is because rookie QB are placed into unfavorable situations. They attempt to counter the poor production the rest of the team is creating . In order to counter the inept play of the team. The Qb takes on patriarchal role. Most are not experienced enough to do that. In order to compensate for his lack of experience . The Qb engages in reckless mannerism that put his confidence in a compromising ordeal . That then become bad habits. I do not want that to happen to DJ. I would rather see Eli get abused out there than the rookie placed into a situation he can not thrive in. I can see that. If that's the case then yeah, you don't use your brand new car as the station beater.
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Post by Sarcasman on Aug 18, 2019 22:34:04 GMT -5
Now we are getting into the meat of the conversation . It is a team thing. Just my opinion . If you replace the vet QB because the team around him is substandard with the rookie . How can the rookie thrive? it is a paradox. I am OK with the team actually doing worse with DJ*, if it means he learns and grows. *I am not saying we will...it's an example. hater
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Post by Martin on Aug 19, 2019 7:01:01 GMT -5
I am OK with the team actually doing worse with DJ*, if it means he learns and grows. *I am not saying we will...it's an example. That is good side . I am worried about the the other side that can be a reality. Which seems to be more often than not . The side where the QB takes on bad habits because of the over compensation for the bad team around him . Those bad habits can become permanent. That is my worry with the "bad team" mid-season switch scenario. Its all about the oline. If its a sound oline then you can put him in at any point of the season. IMO we wait until there is a clear vision as to who this oline is. If there competitive up front and Eli just isn't playing well and losing games you have the option to put DJ in. If its both a shitty Eli and Oline than let the kid sit.
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Post by dannydimes8 on Aug 19, 2019 7:06:34 GMT -5
Eli is the starter for week 1 from there his results and the team results need to be good. Anything short of that and the switch can’t come soon enough. This is about 2020 for me I have severe concerns about the pairing of this pass rush and a young secondary. I think this D will likely improve as the season goes on, but I think it’s gonna rank poorly in the first 8 games. Carter and a corner opposite Jenkins emerging are vital.
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Post by bizcliz on Aug 19, 2019 7:16:18 GMT -5
I think the short leash story is real, just not in the way many of the greenhorn GMs think. The leash refers to the team's performance. I think the fallacy here is that Manning somehow has some control over his destiny, he doesn't. The team's play will likely dictate how long he remains in the starting role. It's gonna be severely disappointing when he gets sacked and then throws an incompletion in the first game and Shurmur doesn't make the switch. I may need to quickly open up a TV repair shop. Now we are getting into the meat of the conversation . It is a team thing. Just my opinion . If you replace the vet QB because the team around him is substandard with the rookie . How can the rookie thrive? it is a paradox. well all ive heard is that we were a mobile QB away from winning 14 games a season so
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 7:31:10 GMT -5
I am OK with the team actually doing worse with DJ*, if it means he learns and grows. *I am not saying we will...it's an example. That is good side . I am worried about the the other side that can be a reality. Which seems to be more often than not . The side where the QB takes on bad habits because of the over compensation for the bad team around him . Those bad habits can become permanent. That is my worry with the "bad team" mid-season switch scenario. This is your concern then you must hate the draft pick. He played on a bad team in college and must have all these "permanent bad habits" from carrying them for a few years!
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Merlin
Special Teams
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Post by Merlin on Aug 19, 2019 7:35:49 GMT -5
Jones to this point has still only seen vanilla defenses vs backups and has only 19 reps.
Its still the smarter play to have him watch a couple games as teams utilize more complicated looks.
It will come down to the Giants record for when Jones plays.
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Post by Fletch842 on Aug 19, 2019 8:38:40 GMT -5
Its all about the oline. If its a sound oline then you can put him in at any point of the season. IMO we wait until there is a clear vision as to who this oline is. If there competitive up front and Eli just isn't playing well and losing games you have the option to put DJ in. If its both a shitty Eli and Oline than let the kid sit. Fine, what do you do if it's the Defense? Say your O is scoring and playing well with Eli but the Defense can't hold a lead ? To assume the loss's were all on Eli or the O line is wrong. You still make the change, since if we are no longer in contention, getting DJ valuable playing time would be of prime importance. The change would not be a knock on Eli/Offense, just what's best for the team going forward.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 19, 2019 8:46:52 GMT -5
What if Eli find his fountain of youth and plays great this year and forces the Giants to play him all year long? Is it a no doubt 100% we just let him go after this season and start DJ in 2020? If Eli plays well then there's no reason for the Giants to start Jones this year. But the beginning of the end of the Eli Era began the minute the Giants spent a Top 10 pick on Jones after multiple losing seasons with an aging, expensive QB. The only real mystery is how the transition will take place. Will the Giants handle it the way they did with Eli and Kurt Warner and bench Eli the first chance they get OR will they do it like the Chiefs did with Smith and Mahomes and move on after the season regardless of whether Eli played well or not? So you are saying, even if Eli has a career year and looks like he drank a TB12 PED shake, and we make a deep playoff run/ SB, they just let Eli walk? I'm not so sure about that. It might make the Favre/Rodgers situation real life. Dont get me wrong though, I see Eli struggling anyways
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Post by GameTime on Aug 19, 2019 9:03:30 GMT -5
If Eli plays well then there's no reason for the Giants to start Jones this year. But the beginning of the end of the Eli Era began the minute the Giants spent a Top 10 pick on Jones after multiple losing seasons with an aging, expensive QB. The only real mystery is how the transition will take place. Will the Giants handle it the way they did with Eli and Kurt Warner and bench Eli the first chance they get OR will they do it like the Chiefs did with Smith and Mahomes and move on after the season regardless of whether Eli played well or not? So you are saying, even if Eli has a career year and looks like he drank a TB12 PED shake, and we make a deep playoff run/ SB, they just let Eli walk? I'm not so sure about that. It might make the Favre/Rodgers situation real life. Dont get me wrong though, I see Eli struggling anyways I feel like that is case. Unless Jones gets hurt Eli is done as NYG even if they win the SB...
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Post by jintsfan666 on Aug 19, 2019 9:39:47 GMT -5
nope...this is Eli's swan song no matter how he plays. At least thats my view So this is the it On a short lash and if he plays good , he is gone . I am glad I have more faith in the FO than some do. Because if he can get to the Playoffs and beyond. I see an extension. I sure hope you are mistaken about the possibility of an Eli extension if he plays well this year.
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Post by Delicreep on Aug 19, 2019 9:56:32 GMT -5
So this is the it On a short lash and if he plays good , he is gone . I am glad I have more faith in the FO than some do. Because if he can get to the Playoffs and beyond. I see an extension. I sure hope you are mistaken about the possibility of an Eli extension if he plays well this year. If Eli played very well, and if we made a deep playoff run, I would be OK with an Eli extension that was a) 1 year, and b) very team friendly...very.
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Post by Sarcasman on Aug 19, 2019 10:31:40 GMT -5
Also, shouldn't this be moved to the Eli section? Shouldn’t every post?
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Merc
Special Teams
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Post by Merc on Aug 19, 2019 10:36:45 GMT -5
I don't care who we win with, as long as we win.
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Post by IrishMike on Aug 19, 2019 10:55:58 GMT -5
How is this still a 4 page thread talking point? Eli is starting. Check back after week 4 to see how things are going.
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Post by Sarcasman on Aug 19, 2019 10:59:12 GMT -5
How is this still a 4 page thread talking point? Eli is starting. Check back after week 4 to see how things are going. He stole my milk money, slept with my wife and got my dog pregnant. I hate Eli Manning so much and that’s why he can not be allowed to start any games this year, otherwise the world will implode in on itself and mankind as a civilization will be lost.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 19, 2019 11:02:28 GMT -5
How is this still a 4 page thread talking point? Eli is starting. Check back after week 4 to see how things are going. He stole my milk money, slept with my wife and got my dog pregnant. I hate Eli Manning so much and that’s why he can not be allowed to start any games this year, otherwise the world will implode in on itself and mankind as a civilization will be lost. well....he slept with your wife AND your dog... thats crossing the line for sure!! Bench him!!
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Post by Sarcasman on Aug 19, 2019 11:05:07 GMT -5
He stole my milk money, slept with my wife and got my dog pregnant. I hate Eli Manning so much and that’s why he can not be allowed to start any games this year, otherwise the world will implode in on itself and mankind as a civilization will be lost. well....he slept with your wife AND your dog... thats crossing the line for sure!! Bench him!! There can be no other reasonable explanation for my disproportionate impotent rage.
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Post by IrishMike on Aug 19, 2019 11:05:38 GMT -5
How is this still a 4 page thread talking point? Eli is starting. Check back after week 4 to see how things are going. He stole my milk money, slept with my wife and got my dog pregnant. I hate Eli Manning so much and that’s why he can not be allowed to start any games this year, otherwise the world will implode in on itself and mankind as a civilization will be lost. Big Ben is starting and surely he assaulted a woman this year. Lets give Eli a chance too lol.
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Post by Sarcasman on Aug 19, 2019 11:07:56 GMT -5
He stole my milk money, slept with my wife and got my dog pregnant. I hate Eli Manning so much and that’s why he can not be allowed to start any games this year, otherwise the world will implode in on itself and mankind as a civilization will be lost. Big Ben is starting and surely he assaulted a woman this year. Lets give Eli a chance too lol. That’s different. He lacks sufficient familiarity for our contempt. The view from here is that that grass is as green as Ireland.
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Aug 19, 2019 11:11:25 GMT -5
How is this still a 4 page thread talking point? Eli is starting. Check back after week 4 to see how things are going. He stole my milk money, slept with my wife and got my dog pregnant. I hate Eli Manning ....and yet people still say he's not mobile......
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Post by TEM on Aug 19, 2019 15:03:54 GMT -5
That is good side . I am worried about the the other side that can be a reality. Which seems to be more often than not . The side where the QB takes on bad habits because of the over compensation for the bad team around him . Those bad habits can become permanent. That is my worry with the "bad team" mid-season switch scenario. Its all about the oline. If its a sound oline then you can put him in at any point of the season. IMO we wait until there is a clear vision as to who this oline is. If there competitive up front and Eli just isn't playing well and losing games you have the option to put DJ in. If its both a shitty Eli and Oline than let the kid sit. i agree but if Giants are losing game because the Defense. There is the paradox.
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Post by TEM on Aug 19, 2019 15:11:55 GMT -5
That is good side . I am worried about the the other side that can be a reality. Which seems to be more often than not . The side where the QB takes on bad habits because of the over compensation for the bad team around him . Those bad habits can become permanent. That is my worry with the "bad team" mid-season switch scenario. This is your concern then you must hate the draft pick. He played on a bad team in college and must have all these "permanent bad habits" from carrying them for a few years! Not true . I like the pick . The kid looks good. Too many QB have failed. Not because of their talent as a QB but the situation they were place into. There is a reason Eli and Archie did not want any party of the Chargers. If DJ falters I want him to fail because he was not good . Not because the team around was not into a position to prop up a Rookie QB. When Eli came in . He had a descent O-line , Tiki, A good core of a defense. Out of SB i am not convinced the other two are up to par.
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Post by TEM on Aug 19, 2019 15:18:57 GMT -5
Now we are getting into the meat of the conversation . It is a team thing. Just my opinion . If you replace the vet QB because the team around him is substandard with the rookie . How can the rookie thrive? it is a paradox. well all ive heard is that we were a mobile QB away from winning 14 games a season so Is he a good pass rusher also. If that is the case Hell we are undefeated.
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