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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 15:21:41 GMT -5
This is your concern then you must hate the draft pick. He played on a bad team in college and must have all these "permanent bad habits" from carrying them for a few years! Not true . I like the pick . The kid looks good. Too many QB have failed. Not because of their talent as a QB but the situation they were place into. There is a reason Eli and Archie did not want any party of the Chargers. If DJ falters I want him to fail because he was not good . Not because the team around was not into a position to prop up a Rookie QB. When Eli came in . He had a descent O-line , Tiki, A good core of a defense. Out of SB i am not convinced the other two are up to par. Jones had a terrible team in college so he must have developed all these bad traits due to that as you believe will happen on the Giants. Sorry but you can't have it both ways.
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Post by TEM on Aug 19, 2019 15:28:23 GMT -5
So this is the it On a short lash and if he plays good , he is gone . I am glad I have more faith in the FO than some do. Because if he can get to the Playoffs and beyond. I see an extension. I sure hope you are mistaken about the possibility of an Eli extension if he plays well this year. So if the QB plays well . You cut him loose. Very innovative thinking. You should convey that to Pittsburgh. New Orleans, The Chargers and New England . Because according to you . They have been doing it wrong.
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Post by Sarcasman on Aug 19, 2019 15:34:43 GMT -5
I sure hope you are mistaken about the possibility of an Eli extension if he plays well this year. So if the QB plays well . You cut him loose. Very innovative thinking. You should convey that to Pittsburgh. New Orleans, The Chargers and New England . Because according to you . They have been doing it wrong. The Steelers doubled down and are paying a fortune per year for fort holding while they locate their next QB. But their team is mediocre so that makes it smart.
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Post by TEM on Aug 19, 2019 15:34:49 GMT -5
Not true . I like the pick . The kid looks good. Too many QB have failed. Not because of their talent as a QB but the situation they were place into. There is a reason Eli and Archie did not want any party of the Chargers. If DJ falters I want him to fail because he was not good . Not because the team around was not into a position to prop up a Rookie QB. When Eli came in . He had a descent O-line , Tiki, A good core of a defense. Out of SB i am not convinced the other two are up to par. Jones had a terrible team in college so he must have developed all these bad traits due to that as you believe will happen on the Giants. Sorry but you can't have it both ways. Statistical failure rates among NFL rookie are inline with what I sate. There are exceptions but most fail. Not as you say "can't have it both ways . If you have some other reason for the high 70% .Qb failure rate . Lets here it.
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Post by TEM on Aug 19, 2019 15:42:49 GMT -5
So if the QB plays well . You cut him loose. Very innovative thinking. You should convey that to Pittsburgh. New Orleans, The Chargers and New England . Because according to you . They have been doing it wrong. The Steelers doubled down and are paying a fortune per year for fort holding while they locate their next QB. But their team is mediocre so that makes it smart. Ben puts up numbers . I agree that team would not be good for a rookie QB . It would be like Miami with Tannehill.
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Post by Sarcasman on Aug 19, 2019 15:49:15 GMT -5
The Steelers doubled down and are paying a fortune per year for fort holding while they locate their next QB. But their team is mediocre so that makes it smart. Ben puts up numbers . I agree that team would not be good for a rookie QB . It would be like Miami with Tannehill. I'm not arguing it, just pointing out that they - like many teams including the Giants - have made a decision to overpay for that service and that decision is more common than it is out of the norm.
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Post by KingCap88 on Aug 19, 2019 16:16:35 GMT -5
If Eli plays well then there's no reason for the Giants to start Jones this year. But the beginning of the end of the Eli Era began the minute the Giants spent a Top 10 pick on Jones after multiple losing seasons with an aging, expensive QB. The only real mystery is how the transition will take place. Will the Giants handle it the way they did with Eli and Kurt Warner and bench Eli the first chance they get OR will they do it like the Chiefs did with Smith and Mahomes and move on after the season regardless of whether Eli played well or not? So you are saying, even if Eli has a career year and looks like he drank a TB12 PED shake, and we make a deep playoff run/ SB, they just let Eli walk? I'm not so sure about that. It might make the Favre/Rodgers situation real life. Dont get me wrong though, I see Eli struggling anyways I'd be shocked if the Giants went the Favre/Rodgers route with Eli and Jones. Favre was still playing at a high level when the Packers drafted Rodgers late in the first round so they could afford to let Rodgers ride the bench for 3 years. Eli hasn't been playing at a high level in recent years, which is why the Giants drafted Jones where they did. Now, assuming Eli has a good year, he's still a free agent after this season so if you're the Giants why give him another expensive extension, which would likely include another no-trade clause, when you could just start over with the younger, cheaper and more mobile QB that you drafted in the Top 10? Now, if by some miracle Eli was able to help the Giants win another SB then that would likely change the equation.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 16:28:12 GMT -5
So you are saying, even if Eli has a career year and looks like he drank a TB12 PED shake, and we make a deep playoff run/ SB, they just let Eli walk? I'm not so sure about that. It might make the Favre/Rodgers situation real life. Dont get me wrong though, I see Eli struggling anyways I'd be shocked if the Giants went the Favre/Rodgers route with Eli and Jones. Favre was still playing at a high level when the Packers drafted Rodgers late in the first round so they could afford to let Rodgers ride the bench for 3 years. Eli hasn't been playing at a high level in recent years, which is why the Giants drafted Jones where they did. Now, assuming Eli has a good year, he's still a free agent after this season so if you're the Giants why give him another expensive extension, which would likely include another no-trade clause, when you could just start over with the younger, cheaper and more mobile QB that you drafted in the Top 10? Now, if by some miracle Eli was able to help the Giants win another SB then that would likely change the equation. Mara may pull a kraft and send jones packing, like grappolo. But lets be honest eli isnt going to have a monster year, and that isn't all his fault, we dont have the personal as well as his play declining.
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Post by TEM on Aug 19, 2019 16:36:17 GMT -5
Ben puts up numbers . I agree that team would not be good for a rookie QB . It would be like Miami with Tannehill. I'm not arguing it, just pointing out that they - like many teams including he Giants - have made a decision to overpay for that service and that decision is more common than it is out of the norm. NFL teams really have no faith in the QB readiness coming out of The NCAA . When they have a QB that can run the offense teams stick with it. That is what I see the evidence pointing to.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 19, 2019 16:45:56 GMT -5
I'd be shocked if the Giants went the Favre/Rodgers route with Eli and Jones. Favre was still playing at a high level when the Packers drafted Rodgers late in the first round so they could afford to let Rodgers ride the bench for 3 years. Eli hasn't been playing at a high level in recent years, which is why the Giants drafted Jones where they did. Now, assuming Eli has a good year, he's still a free agent after this season so if you're the Giants why give him another expensive extension, which would likely include another no-trade clause, when you could just start over with the younger, cheaper and more mobile QB that you drafted in the Top 10? Now, if by some miracle Eli was able to help the Giants win another SB then that would likely change the equation. Mara may pull a kraft and send jones packing, like grappolo. But lets be honest eli isnt going to have a monster year, and that isn't all his fault, we dont have the personal as well as his play declining. his play this season may be better than it has the last two seasons......I mean I think he is done but it would not surprise me in the least if he had a last hurrah....
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Post by Sarcasman on Aug 19, 2019 16:57:17 GMT -5
I'm not arguing it, just pointing out that they - like many teams including he Giants - have made a decision to overpay for that service and that decision is more common than it is out of the norm. NFL teams really have no faith in the QB readiness coming out of The NCAA . When they have a QB that can run the offense teams stick with it. That is what I see the evidence pointing to. For good reason. It's not like you could just plug the guy in on Day 1 and everything will not only go perfectly, it will immediately improve. The only time you could do that when drafting a QB was last year. And scientists have said it won't happen again for another 76 years.
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Post by Martin on Aug 19, 2019 16:58:47 GMT -5
Its all about the oline. If its a sound oline then you can put him in at any point of the season. IMO we wait until there is a clear vision as to who this oline is. If there competitive up front and Eli just isn't playing well and losing games you have the option to put DJ in. If its both a shitty Eli and Oline than let the kid sit. Fine, what do you do if it's the Defense? Say your O is scoring and playing well with Eli but the Defense can't hold a lead ? To assume the loss's were all on Eli or the O line is wrong. You leave Eli in if the D sucks and O and Eli are good. The main thing is not to destroy the kids confidence with a porous oline. I get what your saying though.
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Post by DandyDon on Aug 19, 2019 18:29:13 GMT -5
Fine, what do you do if it's the Defense? Say your O is scoring and playing well with Eli but the Defense can't hold a lead ? To assume the loss's were all on Eli or the O line is wrong. You leave Eli in if the D sucks and O and Eli are good. The main thing is not to destroy the kids confidence with a porous oline. I get what your saying though. Not once you are out of playoff contention. At that point there is zero reason not to put the kid in.
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Post by Martin on Aug 19, 2019 19:16:55 GMT -5
You leave Eli in if the D sucks and O and Eli are good. The main thing is not to destroy the kids confidence with a porous oline. I get what your saying though. Not once you are out of playoff contention. At that point there is zero reason not to put the kid in. I would agree with that. I am a fan of getting the kid as much experience as possible as long as the oline holds. If the oline cant pass protect than let Eli take the lumps. This QB transition will be interesting.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 20:30:01 GMT -5
Not once you are out of playoff contention. At that point there is zero reason not to put the kid in. I would agree with that. I am a fan of getting the kid as much experience as possible as long as the oline holds. If the oline cant pass protect than let Eli take the lumps. This QB transition will be interesting. dont buy into that myth , they can pass protect at least at an avg level. its enough for jones . he will be fine.
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 19, 2019 22:48:02 GMT -5
Let's face it people....Eli will NEVER leave. They will roll him out on the field in a wheelchair if it ever comes to that.
This is it. This is who we are. No amount of losing will ever change their minds.
If 8-24 hasn't...you think a few early losses this year will?
Forget it.
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Post by Fletch842 on Aug 20, 2019 6:29:37 GMT -5
Let's face it people....Eli will NEVER leave. They will roll him out on the field in a wheelchair if it ever comes to that. This is it. This is who we are. No amount of losing will ever change their minds. If 8-24 hasn't...you think a few early losses this year will? Forget it. First the Rocket, now Eli, when will it end!!!!!! www.funnyordie.com/2007/6/14/17695296/roger-clemens-2057
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Post by Fletch842 on Aug 20, 2019 6:30:09 GMT -5
How is this still a 4 page thread talking point? Eli is starting. Check back after week 4 to see how things are going. He stole my milk money, slept with my wife and got my dog pregnant. I hate Eli Manning so much and that’s why he can not be allowed to start any games this year, otherwise the world will implode in on itself and mankind as a civilization will be lost. I think someone needs to reach out to Abby!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2019 7:09:02 GMT -5
Fine, what do you do if it's the Defense? Say your O is scoring and playing well with Eli but the Defense can't hold a lead ? To assume the loss's were all on Eli or the O line is wrong. You leave Eli in if the D sucks and O and Eli are good. The main thing is not to destroy the kids confidence with a porous oline. I get what your saying though. This doesn't make sense. If the Giants are losing but the oline is playing good which means Eli would have nice stats any ways then this is the perfect time to bring in Jones. Isn't that what you claim that the oline needs to be good in order not to ruin Jones's fragile ego?
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Post by bizcliz on Aug 20, 2019 7:09:49 GMT -5
Let's face it people....Eli will NEVER leave. They will roll him out on the field in a wheelchair if it ever comes to that. This is it. This is who we are. No amount of losing will ever change their minds. If 8-24 hasn't...you think a few early losses this year will? Forget it. you sound like that's the worst thing in the world
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Post by DandyDon on Aug 20, 2019 8:49:38 GMT -5
Let's face it people....Eli will NEVER leave. They will roll him out on the field in a wheelchair if it ever comes to that. This is it. This is who we are. No amount of losing will ever change their minds. If 8-24 hasn't...you think a few early losses this year will? Forget it. Have a Snickers bud...
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Post by GameTime on Aug 20, 2019 8:51:38 GMT -5
Let's face it people....Eli will NEVER leave. They will roll him out on the field in a wheelchair if it ever comes to that. This is it. This is who we are. No amount of losing will ever change their minds. If 8-24 hasn't...you think a few early losses this year will? Forget it. they never a top round draft pick waiting either... big difference. Eli's last season as a NYG is 2019 and he may not even finish it as the #1 QB on the team .
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 20, 2019 12:56:41 GMT -5
Let's face it people....Eli will NEVER leave. They will roll him out on the field in a wheelchair if it ever comes to that. This is it. This is who we are. No amount of losing will ever change their minds. If 8-24 hasn't...you think a few early losses this year will? Forget it. you sound like that's the worst thing in the world Being 20 games under .500 over the past 6 years may not be the worst thing....but it's in the top 10.
But I'm on board. Losing doesn't matter. Eli's feelings are what counts.
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Post by Speedman on Aug 20, 2019 18:56:13 GMT -5
Interesting that so many people are afraid to see Eli with a decent OL.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 20, 2019 19:51:30 GMT -5
Interesting that so many people are afraid to see Eli with a decent OL. odd statement.....and not true I would guess With that said I think Eli is what he is at this point and while his performance may be a bit better his days of playing well consistently enough to make a difference are gone.
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Post by Delicreep on Aug 20, 2019 20:04:13 GMT -5
you sound like that's the worst thing in the world Being 20 games under .500 over the past 6 years may not be the worst thing....but it's in the top 10.
But I'm on board. Losing doesn't matter. Eli's feelings are what counts.
Now, call me crazy, but... If it were possible to factor Eli out of the equation, it looks like the team was not happy with the thought of any of the QB's available to them in the past few years, with the exception of an attempt to trade up for Mahomes. Could they have been wrong? Absolutely. They certainly took flyers at QB's...Lauletta and future HOFer Davis Webb are examples. But it also looks like they found a QB that they love and took him this year...conventional wisdom says the overpaid for him. Again...they could be wrong, but they certainly committed to him, and in doing so, removed the opportunity to get Eli that one weapon he needed. And they put into place an inescapable pressure to see that new QB, short of a playoff run lead by Eli. Now this is the part where I am probably suppose to make some comment about you hating Eli, except I don't believe that's true. You hate the losing. I would suggest that Mara/DG do as well; they just took what they thought was the measured path to becoming a winning team again that differs from your path. So where does that leave us: You think that no matter what, Jones doesn't play this year. I think Eli is being given a chance to win this year, but he is also being paid to mentor Jones in the Giants way. Eli won't finish the year as the starter, and the future will begin.
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Post by Delicreep on Aug 20, 2019 20:05:57 GMT -5
Interesting that so many people are afraid to see Eli with a decent OL. I don't think people are afraid...I think they just don't see him suddenly becoming effective game in, game out.
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Post by Delicreep on Aug 20, 2019 20:11:38 GMT -5
I don't think people are afraid...I think they just don't see him suddenly becoming effective game in, game out. I would say that about the entire team , see I would factor in the defense or lack of it game in and game out.Last year being a very good example. See...when I consider the state of the team, it makes me want to see Jones out there sooner rather than later. If they are a work in progress, then Jones represents a key piece of the future; get him in and growing right now.
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Post by Roswell on Aug 21, 2019 4:58:51 GMT -5
Jeez.
Hasn’t anyone here ever read Tao Te Ching?
Eli is the starter until he isn’t.
😎
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Post by KingCap88 on Aug 21, 2019 7:34:15 GMT -5
I'd be shocked if the Giants went the Favre/Rodgers route with Eli and Jones. Favre was still playing at a high level when the Packers drafted Rodgers late in the first round so they could afford to let Rodgers ride the bench for 3 years. Eli hasn't been playing at a high level in recent years, which is why the Giants drafted Jones where they did. Now, assuming Eli has a good year, he's still a free agent after this season so if you're the Giants why give him another expensive extension, which would likely include another no-trade clause, when you could just start over with the younger, cheaper and more mobile QB that you drafted in the Top 10? Now, if by some miracle Eli was able to help the Giants win another SB then that would likely change the equation. Mara may pull a kraft and send jones packing, like grappolo. But lets be honest eli isnt going to have a monster year, and that isn't all his fault, we dont have the personal as well as his play declining. Eli's best days are definitely behind him. But like you said, it isn't all his fault. Part of the problem is that he's in decline and the other part is that the Giants have had issues with personnel and coaching.
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