|
|
Post by EliDaGoat713 on Sept 27, 2019 13:36:05 GMT -5
Janoris Jenkins + Kareem Martin + a 2nd or 3rd for Diggs. Who says no?
|
|
Shim
Special Teams
Adapt or die.
Posts: 341 
|
Post by Shim on Sept 27, 2019 14:31:30 GMT -5
So we can have 3 slot receivers?  |
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Sept 27, 2019 15:26:01 GMT -5
Janoris Jenkins + Kareem Martin + a 2nd or 3rd for Diggs. Who says no? Gettleman said "anytime you have the opportunity to add talent to your roster you do it" and just because we have some other WRs on the roster doesn't mean we can't upgrade the overall talent on the team.... |
|
|
|
Post by EliDaGoat713 on Sept 27, 2019 16:47:26 GMT -5
So we can have 3 slot receivers? Diggs can play on the outside too and he's 6 foot tall. Having Diggs, Tate, Shepard, Latimer, Fowler, Engram, Ellison, and Saquon as DJ's weapons moving forward would not be bad at all. |
|
|
|
Post by Kase1 on Sept 27, 2019 16:52:48 GMT -5
Id honestly rather wait and grab 1 of the top WRs in the upcoming draft. There are a few excellent choices that may drop due to all the teams that may move up to draft their qb of the future
|
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Sept 27, 2019 16:57:45 GMT -5
Id honestly rather wait and grab 1 of the top WRs in the upcoming draft. There are a few excellent choices that may drop due to all the teams that may move up to draft their qb of the future . This 100% Why does this poster continually push for trading for/acquiring players with big contracts in what is a throw away rebuilding developmental year? And why is he the only one talking about Diggs,have not seen one word on this, And why would Minnesota even think about a trade like this |
|
|
|
Post by cruzsoldier on Sept 27, 2019 18:16:07 GMT -5
Janoris Jenkins + Kareem Martin + a 2nd or 3rd for Diggs. Who says no? Minnesota will say no... |
|
|
|
Post by TCHOF on Sept 27, 2019 18:28:54 GMT -5
Janoris Jenkins + Kareem Martin + a 2nd or 3rd for Diggs. Who says no? Why on earth would the Vikings do this? |
|
|
|
Post by TCHOF on Sept 27, 2019 18:30:01 GMT -5
So we can have 3 slot receivers? Haha. Bunk! |
|
|
|
Post by EliDaGoat713 on Sept 27, 2019 19:03:16 GMT -5
Id honestly rather wait and grab 1 of the top WRs in the upcoming draft. There are a few excellent choices that may drop due to all the teams that may move up to draft their qb of the future . This 100% Why does this poster continually push for trading for/acquiring players with big contracts in what is a throw away rebuilding developmental year? And why is he the only one talking about Diggs,have not seen one word on this, And why would Minnesota even think about a trade like this We have no room to draft a top receiver when we should be going pass rusher first, then LT of the future, then CB. |
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Sept 27, 2019 19:32:59 GMT -5
. This 100% Why does this poster continually push for trading for/acquiring players with big contracts in what is a throw away rebuilding developmental year? And why is he the only one talking about Diggs,have not seen one word on this, And why would Minnesota even think about a trade like this We have no room to draft a top receiver when we should be going pass rusher first, then LT of the future, then CB. That is not how the draft works. You don't ever ever draft in position of desire order,no team ever does that. That is how you catastrophe reach and end up letting really good players that can help go past you to other teams in every round. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2019 8:21:38 GMT -5
Janoris Jenkins + Kareem Martin + a 2nd or 3rd for Diggs. Who says no? Minnesota SHOULD say no... Fixed that |
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Sept 28, 2019 8:37:22 GMT -5
Minnesota SHOULD say no... Fixed that At the least Minnesota would want a #1 or two #2. The question is would the FO be willing to do that and take on the albatross that is his contract. I do not think the FO would want to part with the pics not to mention his contract. |
|
|
|
Post by giants8493 on Sept 28, 2019 9:43:43 GMT -5
We have no room to draft a top receiver when we should be going pass rusher first, then LT of the future, then CB. That is not how the draft works. You don't ever ever draft in position of desire order,no team ever does that. That is how you catastrophe reach and end up letting really good players that can help go past you to other teams in every round. Couldn't you say the same thing about drafting a WR? At least those three positions are positions of dire need instead of one position where the Giants have a few competent players already |
|
|
|
Post by DandyDon on Sept 28, 2019 9:56:30 GMT -5
So we can have 3 slot receivers? And an even worst backfield?  |
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Sept 28, 2019 10:32:39 GMT -5
That is not how the draft works. You don't ever ever draft in position of desire order,no team ever does that. That is how you catastrophe reach and end up letting really good players that can help go past you to other teams in every round. Couldn't you say the same thing about drafting a WR? At least those three positions are positions of dire need instead of one position where the Giants have a few competent players already How can you say they are a dire need only 3 games into the season when we used major draft capital the past 2 years(4 draft picks,including 3 in the first 4 rounds),2 edge rushers and 2 D linemen with high picks?You can't overdraft a position either because you end up sacrificing other areas of the team.Let the kids play and develop before declaring positions a dire need.This also goes for Slayton which brings me to "a few competent players"..you mean 2 career journeymen on 1 year stop gap deals and Tate on a more expensive stop gap deal that can be deleted. We will need at least 2 if not 3 if none are brought back,and I definitely think upgrading this unit benefits the team and Jones with as much long term talent as possible,and this draft has a bumper crop of top end talent that would fit BPA meets need and value early that would be foolish to pass up next year,and trading forma guy that is making 70 million would be counter productive in the lost draftvpock assets standpoint and probably getting a better player on a rookie deal as well. |
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Sept 28, 2019 10:39:24 GMT -5
At the least Minnesota would want a #1 or two #2. The question is would the FO be willing to do that and take on the albatross that is his contract. I do not think the FO would want to part with the pics not to mention his contract. Hypothetically we are picking 13th and we take CeeDee Lamb We have someone already on paper as good as a rookie with the chance to be a dynamic X factor type the next 4 years on a rookie deal or Diggs who is a nice 1a type with a huge contract. Yeah I know what ths sane thing to do is |
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Sept 28, 2019 10:43:22 GMT -5
At the least Minnesota would want a #1 or two #2. The question is would the FO be willing to do that and take on the albatross that is his contract. I do not think the FO would want to part with the pics not to mention his contract. Hypothetically we are picking 13th and we take CeeDee Lamb We have someone already on paper as good as a rookie with the chance to be a dynamic X factor type the next 4 years on a rookie deal or Diggs who is a nice 1a type with a huge contract. Yeah I know what ths sane thing to do is I see us taking an OT. Perhaps Walker Little or Trey Adams. |
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Sept 28, 2019 10:54:42 GMT -5
Hypothetically we are picking 13th and we take CeeDee Lamb We have someone already on paper as good as a rookie with the chance to be a dynamic X factor type the next 4 years on a rookie deal or Diggs who is a nice 1a type with a huge contract. Yeah I know what ths sane thing to do is I see us taking an OT. Perhaps Walker Little or Trey Adams. Gettleman doesn't take linemen early,especially round 1,and has had a lot of success in Carolina doing this because he knows how to sniff out the types of linemen that succeed in the league. Which would be unfortunate if my boy Wirfs is there because he legit fits the mold of "safest pick in draft/,10 year starter at RT", I actually see us signing a T in free agency for 4 or 5 years to get RT locked down so we can not shop hungry at the draft and make the line that much better instantly.At least that's what I would do. Because we would be in the luxury position of BPA throughout the early part of the draft |
|
|
|
Post by giants8493 on Sept 28, 2019 12:52:42 GMT -5
Couldn't you say the same thing about drafting a WR? At least those three positions are positions of dire need instead of one position where the Giants have a few competent players already How can you say they are a dire need only 3 games into the season when we used major draft capital the past 2 years(4 draft picks,including 3 in the first 4 rounds),2 edge rushers and 2 D linemen with high picks?You can't overdraft a position either because you end up sacrificing other areas of the team.Let the kids play and develop before declaring positions a dire need.This also goes for Slayton which brings me to "a few competent players"..you mean 2 career journeymen on 1 year stop gap deals and Tate on a more expensive stop gap deal that can be deleted. We will need at least 2 if not 3 if none are brought back,and I definitely think upgrading this unit benefits the team and Jones with as much long term talent as possible,and this draft has a bumper crop of top end talent that would fit BPA meets need and value early that would be foolish to pass up next year,and trading forma guy that is making 70 million would be counter productive in the lost draftvpock assets standpoint and probably getting a better player on a rookie deal as well. That's exactly what I mean. Tate and Sheppard are arguably top 20 to top 30 wrs in the NFL imo. That means they are both above average at worst. Having two above average wrs is actually pretty good. Throw in a top 5 receiving option in Engram and the weapons on this team are actually one of the better trios in the game. Big contract to Shepard and and tate this offseason is already a rather large allotment of resources at the WR position. Now going forward having a qb on a rookie deal DOES provide a little extra flexibility since that's an extra 15 million per year b or so you can spend elsewhere to fill other needs... But still with those guys locked up for a few years still and the defense looking as incompetent as it has been I think it would make more sense to spend as many resources at other positions as possible possible until that defense is shored up. Now with all that being said I am absolutely 100% on board with drafting based on the best talent available in the draft... But I thought you indicated that you thought drafting a WR in the first round is the way to go, but then went on about bpa when anther poster mentioned drafting better positions of need. I just think that was a little unusual considering all the other help this team needs in other spots. All this is relative to who the best players in the draft are though, which is also tough to evaluate this early. I personally think we are ok at WR for now. It feels a lot worse then it is since we haven't seen tate yet. I would see how Slayton develops and maybe draft another guy in the middle rounds depending on what's out there. So I guess I would rather not draft a WR high or trade for Diggs and would rather extend Engram vs sign or trade for another big name WR. |
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Sept 28, 2019 13:25:21 GMT -5
How can you say they are a dire need only 3 games into the season when we used major draft capital the past 2 years(4 draft picks,including 3 in the first 4 rounds),2 edge rushers and 2 D linemen with high picks?You can't overdraft a position either because you end up sacrificing other areas of the team.Let the kids play and develop before declaring positions a dire need.This also goes for Slayton which brings me to "a few competent players"..you mean 2 career journeymen on 1 year stop gap deals and Tate on a more expensive stop gap deal that can be deleted. We will need at least 2 if not 3 if none are brought back,and I definitely think upgrading this unit benefits the team and Jones with as much long term talent as possible,and this draft has a bumper crop of top end talent that would fit BPA meets need and value early that would be foolish to pass up next year,and trading forma guy that is making 70 million would be counter productive in the lost draftvpock assets standpoint and probably getting a better player on a rookie deal as well. That's exactly what I mean. Tate and Sheppard are arguably top 20 to top 30 wrs in the NFL imo. That means they are both above average at worst. Having two above average wrs is actually pretty good. Throw in a top 5 receiving option in Engram and the weapons on this team are actually one of the better trios in the game. Big contract to Shepard and and tate this offseason is already a rather large allotment of resources at the WR position. Now going forward having a qb on a rookie deal DOES provide a little extra flexibility since that's an extra 15 million per year b or so you can spend elsewhere to fill other needs... But still with those guys locked up for a few years still and the defense looking as incompetent as it has been I think it would make more sense to spend as many resources at other positions as possible possible until that defense is shored up. Now with all that being said I am absolutely 100% on board with drafting based on the best talent available in the draft... But I thought you indicated that you thought drafting a WR in the first round is the way to go, but then went on about bpa when anther poster mentioned drafting better positions of need. I just think that was a little unusual considering all the other help this team needs in other spots. All this is relative to who the best players in the draft are though, which is also tough to evaluate this early. I personally think we are ok at WR for now. It feels a lot worse then it is since we haven't seen tate yet. I would see how Slayton develops and maybe draft another guy in the middle rounds depending on what's out there. So I guess I would rather not draft a WR high or trade for Diggs and would rather extend Engram vs sign or trade for another big name WR. My point about the defense is that it's way too early to declare it completely incompetent after 3 games to the point we deadicate 80% of our recourses next year again on that side of the ball while neglecting adding resources around what looks to be a young franchise qb for a long time.OK at reciever now can change in an instant(just like in 2017 we looked to be deep in the secondary and we saw how quickly that went south). At the same time a big name reciever with a huge cap number would be just as assenine as reaching for a pass rusher mid first round because its a need and the value says Lamb or Wirfs blaring you in bright red neon lights(luckily our GM is one to run to the podium if an obvious BPA is there ) My issue with this poster is that not only is he advocating trading for a big name receiver (and Diggs is a nice number 1 type that to be honest while would be a fit here would make our WRs very redundant and also tie up 150 million in cap space at WR when Lamb,Higgins,ect would be on a rookie deal)and losing draft assets that could be used for other needs,he made the very uneducated take of prioritizing a particular need to a round. You never ever go into a draft with the mindset that you have to (his words) 1.take a pass rusher first no matter what 2.take an OT next no matter what 3.take a linebacker next no matter what. Do you see a problem with this mindset? Because if a team actually did this,not only would they be missing out on much better players all over but probably getting players at the desired positions that are so inferior to their value that these positions would be major needs again in years,would be the ultimate reach draft.If I was an owner and my front office drafted like this the entire group would be fired on the spot. But getting back to the recievers, To me Slayton holds the key how much of a need WR is because this offense needs a dynamic deep threat to really make it flourish the way Shurmer wants it to. The Buffalo game showed just as much with the way they sat on the underneath stuff and m running game with nothing to fear over the top If this team is to be as run heavy as Shurmer wants they have to clear out the box and push the safeties back(which also opens up Engram and Sheppard) And even if Slayton is the guy,at most Tate has one more year left here before he can be deleted with little dead money(he might even be deleted without dead money next year because of his PED situation), So my ideal situation is that Slayton shows he is legit,we delete Tate,don't bring back Latimer and Fowler,so we will need recievers in a very reciever rich draft,money saved on WR goes to Conklin (example),RT is fixed for 5 years. Now if Carter and X man show promise as edge guys while our front 3 become what we think they can become(I'm also extending Tomlinson early while we have the space along with Engram)and Connelly looks as legit as he is showing,that front 7 all of a sudden looks a hell of a lot better which means the defense has drastically improved.We have to let Baker,Beal and Ballentine show they can't play before making a panic reach early in the draft as well. So what I'm saying is BPA probably could be a WR that would instantly make this offense insanely lethal with just buying a RT Then you find your LT in the draft to groom behind Soldier and add line depth as welk.. But again,let's let the season play out, |
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Sept 28, 2019 15:30:11 GMT -5
I see us taking an OT. Perhaps Walker Little or Trey Adams. Gettleman doesn't take linemen early,especially round 1,and has had a lot of success in Carolina doing this because he knows how to sniff out the types of linemen that succeed in the league. Which would be unfortunate if my boy Wirfs is there because he legit fits the mold of "safest pick in draft/,10 year starter at RT", I actually see us signing a T in free agency for 4 or 5 years to get RT locked down so we can not shop hungry at the draft and make the line that much better instantly.At least that's what I would do. Because we would be in the luxury position of BPA throughout the early part of the draft That is not what he did with Hernandez. He took him with 34. I disagree with the notion he wont take O-Line early. |
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Sept 28, 2019 15:45:39 GMT -5
Gettleman doesn't take linemen early,especially round 1,and has had a lot of success in Carolina doing this because he knows how to sniff out the types of linemen that succeed in the league. Which would be unfortunate if my boy Wirfs is there because he legit fits the mold of "safest pick in draft/,10 year starter at RT", I actually see us signing a T in free agency for 4 or 5 years to get RT locked down so we can not shop hungry at the draft and make the line that much better instantly.At least that's what I would do. Because we would be in the luxury position of BPA throughout the early part of the draft That is not what he did with Hernandez. He took him with 34. I disagree with the notion he wont take O-Line early. Hernandez was the outleir because he was about as a no brainer BPA as you can have(you think Cleveland is regretting passing on him right about now?) Gettleman is pretty much a by the books BPA and has for the most part weighed high impact players early. To me that theory was proven when we traded back into the first when I thought for sure it was for one of the OTs and he went for a playmaker on defense |
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Sept 28, 2019 15:59:52 GMT -5
That is not what he did with Hernandez. He took him with 34. I disagree with the notion he wont take O-Line early. Hernandez was the outleir because he was about as a no brainer BPA as you can have(you think Cleveland is regretting passing on him right about now?) Gettleman is pretty much a by the books BPA and has for the most part weighed high impact players early. To me that theory was proven when we traded back into the first when I thought for sure it was for one of the OTs and he went for a playmaker on defense I find it presumptive that you would assume that a OT at the time of the pick would not be BPA. On the last post you said he does not like to take O- line early. If the OT was the BPA are you saying he would not take him? I am not trying to be condescending. Rather trying get a feel from where you are coming from. |
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Sept 28, 2019 16:10:08 GMT -5
Hernandez was the outleir because he was about as a no brainer BPA as you can have(you think Cleveland is regretting passing on him right about now?) Gettleman is pretty much a by the books BPA and has for the most part weighed high impact players early. To me that theory was proven when we traded back into the first when I thought for sure it was for one of the OTs and he went for a playmaker on defense I find it presumptive that you would assume that a OT at the time of the pick would not be BPA. On the last post you said he does not like to take O- line early. If the OT was the BPA are you saying he would not take him? I am not trying to be condescending. Rather trying get a feel from where you are coming from. Personally when we traded up I thought OT was BPA by a wide margin last year(to me I was salivating at the ....forget his name but the tackle from Kansas )but Gettleman thought otherwise? It's too early to tell right now for obvious reasons what would be ballpark figure for BPA as we are only in week 4. But passing on a T last year when we kinda had the pick of the litter for some highly graded ones tells me Gettleman likes for the most part draft his linemen mid rounds. All I know is next year we have a very talented class of dynamic playmaker WRs,obviously the QBs,2 stud edge rushers that we probably have to have a top 7 pick to even think about,and about 2 or 3 good tackles. Where we end up will tell the story as well as who develops this year. Not to mention FA and all the cap space we have. We ink Conklin and all of a sudden tackle becomes more of a developmental type mid round pick |
|
|
|
Post by Blue Hulk on Sept 30, 2019 9:44:56 GMT -5
You can't trade injured players....
Golden tate is the same player and Shep is just as good... We need a big Mike Evans type of possession receiver. You see how effective Evan Engram has been
|
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Sept 30, 2019 16:19:20 GMT -5
You can't trade injured players.... Golden tate is the same player and Shep is just as good... We need a big Mike Evans type of possession receiver. You see how effective Evan Engram has been We have posession types all over the roster I'd rather have the dynamic guy that opens everything else up so all levels are threatened |
|
|
|
Post by cruzsoldier on Sept 30, 2019 21:09:44 GMT -5
Gettleman doesn't take linemen early,especially round 1,and has had a lot of success in Carolina doing this because he knows how to sniff out the types of linemen that succeed in the league. Which would be unfortunate if my boy Wirfs is there because he legit fits the mold of "safest pick in draft/,10 year starter at RT", I actually see us signing a T in free agency for 4 or 5 years to get RT locked down so we can not shop hungry at the draft and make the line that much better instantly.At least that's what I would do. Because we would be in the luxury position of BPA throughout the early part of the draft That is not what he did with Hernandez. He took him with 34. I disagree with the notion he wont take O-Line early. Remember Gettleman’s famous term “HOG MOLLIE” that’s exactly what he said Hernandez was. I’m comfortable with the way Gettleman evaluates offensive linemen he just needs to be better at getting the right type of free agents. To be honest if Tate doesn’t produce if I was Gettleman I’d just void his contract at the end of the season and use those resources on trying to upgrade our team on either side of the ball. I really like Slayton and I’d like to see what he can do. |
|
|
|
Post by cruzsoldier on Sept 30, 2019 21:32:55 GMT -5
You can't trade injured players.... Golden tate is the same player and Shep is just as good... We need a big Mike Evans type of possession receiver. You see how effective Evan Engram has been That WR would be Colorado WR Laviska Shenault he’s that Larry Fitzgerald/JuJu Smith Shuster type and I think he would be great at blocking for Barkley on sweep and he can get a lot of yards after the catch. |
|
|
|
Post by bigbluerekncrew on Oct 3, 2019 16:20:42 GMT -5
So we can have 3 slot receivers? Diggs would be our clear deep threat as well as our WR1. WR1 for only 10 Mil a year? Take a risk on a WR in the draft who may or may not pan out? At least with Diggs you know you're getting a legit proven NFL talent. |
|
