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Post by Morehead State on Oct 9, 2019 11:37:05 GMT -5
Yes we have injuries. But why on earth are we this bad when guys get hurt?
Let's look at it.
The Giants have NO veteran depth. We have essentially one veteran corner. We had two RB's entering the season. Our depth all over the field are guys who have never played NFL football.
Why has Dave put us here? We have over $40MM in dead cap money.....and THAT is on Dave. That doesn't include the $17MM we could have saved if we didn't pick up Eli's last year of his deal...which we didn't have to. He's the most expensive back up QB in the NFL.
He traded Odell which gave us a $16MM dead cap hit. That was shortly after he SIGNED Odell (not to trade him). The trading of Snacks, Vernon and Apple gave us a combined $14MM in dead cap money. he signed Omameh and then cut him which cost us another $3MM in 2019.
Now Dave gets a pass if we improve dramatically next season. All this dead cap money is off the books in 2020.
It looks like he hit on Daniel Jones and that's a huge check on his side of the ledger. But he has played Russian Roulette with our future by paying a bunch of guys a lot of money NOT to play for us. He banked on a long shot for the 2019 Giants....and seems to have lost. Another wasted season.
That is why we have NO depth. That is why when OUR guys get hurt, the team falls apart. We are fielding a glorified college team if we can't stay healthy...and what NFL team ever stays healthy?
So look straight to Dave Gettleman for the impending disaster in 2019. Let's hope his HUGE gamble pays off in following years.
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Post by Jomo on Oct 9, 2019 11:44:12 GMT -5
We have had terrible depth for a long time.....it didn't start with DG but he certainly owns it now.
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Post by SG88 on Oct 9, 2019 11:54:03 GMT -5
Well said and agreed. This team is severely handicapped and their depth is paper thin. Anyways, it is what it is. Despite all of that, I am all in for 2020. If they aren't good by the end of next year, they need to reshuffle the deck.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2019 11:57:25 GMT -5
I was wondering why nobody was discussing all the dead money and how hard it is to field a competitive team with this much. I guess we now get the chance and like others are saying it's 2020 for them or see you later!
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Post by Roswell on Oct 9, 2019 12:00:04 GMT -5
And with it all, missing their best player, starting their rookie QB, and trading their superstar WR, the NY Giants are one game out of first heading into week 6.
They are not good but football is a funny game.
For all we know, Thursday night is an Eli Penny Party.
You never know.
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Post by GameTime on Oct 9, 2019 12:06:33 GMT -5
when was 2019 supposed be a "good season" for the Giants?
2019 was getting Jones in and getting the rest of the young guys playing time.
This what is happening.
Injuries happen to all teams but to have 4 starting players out at the same time for the offense is a bit extreme. Even for the NFL
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Post by Roosevelt on Oct 9, 2019 12:21:44 GMT -5
Yes we have injuries. But why on earth are we this bad when guys get hurt?
Let's look at it.
The Giants have NO veteran depth. We have essentially one veteran corner. We had two RB's entering the season. Our depth all over the field are guys who have never played NFL football.
Why has Dave put us here? We have over $40MM in dead cap money.....and THAT is on Dave. That doesn't include the $17MM we could have saved if we didn't pick up Eli's last year of his deal...which we didn't have to. He's the most expensive back up QB in the NFL.
He traded Odell which gave us a $16MM dead cap hit. That was shortly after he SIGNED Odell (not to trade him). The trading of Snacks, Vernon and Apple gave us a combined $14MM in dead cap money. he signed Omameh and then cut him which cost us another $3MM in 2019.
Now Dave gets a pass if we improve dramatically next season. All this dead cap money is off the books in 2020.
It looks like he hit on Daniel Jones and that's a huge check on his side of the ledger. But he has played Russian Roulette with our future by paying a bunch of guys a lot of money NOT to play for us. He banked on a long shot for the 2019 Giants....and seems to have lost. Another wasted season.
That is why we have NO depth. That is why when OUR guys get hurt, the team falls apart. We are fielding a glorified college team if we can't stay healthy...and what NFL team ever stays healthy?
So look straight to Dave Gettleman for the impending disaster in 2019. Let's hope his HUGE gamble pays off in following years.
I’m with you about Eli and that was something I questioned when we signed Jones. Eli’s salary could have gone to help the defense. When you get down to 53 and then keep moving players, that tells you that your team doesn’t have good depth and that is exactly what we’ve seen the last 3 years from this team. It takes time to build your roster and that includes the back ups..
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Post by trueblueatnyc on Oct 9, 2019 12:22:06 GMT -5
Yes we have injuries. But why on earth are we this bad when guys get hurt? Let's look at it.
The Giants have NO veteran depth. We have essentially one veteran corner. We had two RB's entering the season. Our depth all over the field are guys who have never played NFL football. Why has Dave put us here? We have over $40MM in dead cap money.....and THAT is on Dave. That doesn't include the $17MM we could have saved if we didn't pick up Eli's last year of his deal...which we didn't have to. He's the most expensive back up QB in the NFL. He traded Odell which gave us a $16MM dead cap hit. That was shortly after he SIGNED Odell (not to trade him). The trading of Snacks, Vernon and Apple gave us a combined $14MM in dead cap money. he signed Omameh and then cut him which cost us another $3MM in 2019. Now Dave gets a pass if we improve dramatically next season. All this dead cap money is off the books in 2020.
It looks like he hit on Daniel Jones and that's a huge check on his side of the ledger. But he has played Russian Roulette with our future by paying a bunch of guys a lot of money NOT to play for us. He banked on a long shot for the 2019 Giants....and seems to have lost. Another wasted season.
That is why we have NO depth. That is why when OUR guys get hurt, the team falls apart. We are fielding a glorified college team if we can't stay healthy...and what NFL team ever stays healthy? So look straight to Dave Gettleman for the impending disaster in 2019. Let's hope his HUGE gamble pays off in following years. DG didn't sign Beckham just to trade him. He signed him in the hopes that the 2018 Giants were closer to the 11-5 2016 team than they were to the 3-13 2017 team. Once it became apparent that they were closer to the 2017 team, and that the 2016 was an aberration, than he did what good managers do, he pivoted. And ODB was our best trade chip. A chip that has so far turned into two young defensive starters this year, and who knows what more it can be once he can use the freed up cap space next year. The ODB trade has the potential to net the Giants 4 or 5 starting players. This is what a rebuild looks like when you start off with a team full of a bunch of over paid veterans. There was no way they could do a proper rebuild while keeping all of those bloated contracts on the books. He quickly moved most of them off the books. And pretty much all of them will be off by next offseason. Including Eli. Saving cap space for this year made no sense when the goal was for this to be a rebuilding season. Even the Golden Tate and Ogletree contracts they can get out of after this year. Better to go 4-12 than 6-10 or 7-9. Especially going into an offseason that may again have a number of top QB prospects where you can possibly get alot out of trading down.
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Post by gmen21 on Oct 9, 2019 12:24:16 GMT -5
I agree, but....
DG has been building for the future since day one, regardless of what he says to the media.
His first rule of business was to build a better culture. Our culture was horrible for years! I believe DG has done that by getting rid of the "bad" and brining in what he considers "good people."
I believe he was being honest when he said "you don't give up on talent" and "I didn't sign him to trade him" when speaking of OBJ. He was giving OBJ a chance, trusting that he grew up. He went all in on OBJ, giving him massive money, basically saying "ok, OBJ we believe in you, here's the money, now prove me right." OBJ didn't follow his end of the bargin almost immediately, when he threw Eli under the bus and said he didn't "like NY." OBJ was part of the problem, not the solution regardless of his unreal talent.
It's hard to judge now because we have an extremely young team. Eventually they will all be veterans and hopefully great leaders and great players.
If we focus on all the rookies play so far this year, it has been extremely promising, they all have improved since week 1. They all seem like "great kids and good teammates." Same goes for the second year players. Peppers too, he seems like he's growing into a fantastic leader and player.
The future of this team is now...they just have to grow. We won't see the full body of work payoff until 2021...maybe 2020, we have a ton of cap space for this offseason to build depth.
Thats just my 2 cents...
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Post by Delicreep on Oct 9, 2019 12:29:32 GMT -5
Yes we have injuries. But why on earth are we this bad when guys get hurt?
Let's look at it.
The Giants have NO veteran depth. We have essentially one veteran corner. We had two RB's entering the season. Our depth all over the field are guys who have never played NFL football.
Why has Dave put us here? We have over $40MM in dead cap money.....and THAT is on Dave. That doesn't include the $17MM we could have saved if we didn't pick up Eli's last year of his deal...which we didn't have to. He's the most expensive back up QB in the NFL.
He traded Odell which gave us a $16MM dead cap hit. That was shortly after he SIGNED Odell (not to trade him). The trading of Snacks, Vernon and Apple gave us a combined $14MM in dead cap money. he signed Omameh and then cut him which cost us another $3MM in 2019.
Now Dave gets a pass if we improve dramatically next season. All this dead cap money is off the books in 2020.
It looks like he hit on Daniel Jones and that's a huge check on his side of the ledger. But he has played Russian Roulette with our future by paying a bunch of guys a lot of money NOT to play for us. He banked on a long shot for the 2019 Giants....and seems to have lost. Another wasted season.
That is why we have NO depth. That is why when OUR guys get hurt, the team falls apart. We are fielding a glorified college team if we can't stay healthy...and what NFL team ever stays healthy?
So look straight to Dave Gettleman for the impending disaster in 2019. Let's hope his HUGE gamble pays off in following years.
Fair enough, but.... I was OK with the Stewart signing last year because we invested a lot of draft capital on a team with a lot of "culture issues" and the relatively small amount of money spent for a guy to mentor Barkley seems like a no brainer to me. Eli...again, the draft capital spent was enormous, and keeping Eli around as a mentor wasn't the worst idea in the world, particularly if they FO wanted to make sure that DJ learned the Giants way from day 1. Not happy about he cost this time, but again...I get the concept. Before you answer...no, I would not trust the passing on of a team culture to anyone I didn't personally know understands it and could communicate it. It's not an "any vet" proposition. And yes...I fully expect you to tell me how the culture doesn't matter, you want guys that can win (which we also didn't have) What was the better (or cheaper) way to go with Snacks, Vernon and Apple? team was a mess, and it appears that the decision was that it has to get a bit messier before it gets better.
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Post by Roswell on Oct 9, 2019 12:33:04 GMT -5
Yes we have injuries. But why on earth are we this bad when guys get hurt?
Let's look at it.
The Giants have NO veteran depth. We have essentially one veteran corner. We had two RB's entering the season. Our depth all over the field are guys who have never played NFL football.
Why has Dave put us here? We have over $40MM in dead cap money.....and THAT is on Dave. That doesn't include the $17MM we could have saved if we didn't pick up Eli's last year of his deal...which we didn't have to. He's the most expensive back up QB in the NFL.
He traded Odell which gave us a $16MM dead cap hit. That was shortly after he SIGNED Odell (not to trade him). The trading of Snacks, Vernon and Apple gave us a combined $14MM in dead cap money. he signed Omameh and then cut him which cost us another $3MM in 2019.
Now Dave gets a pass if we improve dramatically next season. All this dead cap money is off the books in 2020.
It looks like he hit on Daniel Jones and that's a huge check on his side of the ledger. But he has played Russian Roulette with our future by paying a bunch of guys a lot of money NOT to play for us. He banked on a long shot for the 2019 Giants....and seems to have lost. Another wasted season.
That is why we have NO depth. That is why when OUR guys get hurt, the team falls apart. We are fielding a glorified college team if we can't stay healthy...and what NFL team ever stays healthy?
So look straight to Dave Gettleman for the impending disaster in 2019. Let's hope his HUGE gamble pays off in following years.
Yeah. And I’m sure Thanos meant well, but I’ve got to go by actual events and results so when you bring up dead cap money, which of those signings (and eventual departures) between Beckham, Vernon, Apple and Harrison are really worth laying at the feet of the GM?
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Post by jb456 on Oct 9, 2019 12:42:56 GMT -5
Yes we have injuries. But why on earth are we this bad when guys get hurt? Let's look at it.
The Giants have NO veteran depth. We have essentially one veteran corner. We had two RB's entering the season. Our depth all over the field are guys who have never played NFL football. Why has Dave put us here? We have over $40MM in dead cap money.....and THAT is on Dave. That doesn't include the $17MM we could have saved if we didn't pick up Eli's last year of his deal...which we didn't have to. He's the most expensive back up QB in the NFL. He traded Odell which gave us a $16MM dead cap hit. That was shortly after he SIGNED Odell (not to trade him). The trading of Snacks, Vernon and Apple gave us a combined $14MM in dead cap money. he signed Omameh and then cut him which cost us another $3MM in 2019. Now Dave gets a pass if we improve dramatically next season. All this dead cap money is off the books in 2020.
It looks like he hit on Daniel Jones and that's a huge check on his side of the ledger. But he has played Russian Roulette with our future by paying a bunch of guys a lot of money NOT to play for us. He banked on a long shot for the 2019 Giants....and seems to have lost. Another wasted season.
That is why we have NO depth. That is why when OUR guys get hurt, the team falls apart. We are fielding a glorified college team if we can't stay healthy...and what NFL team ever stays healthy? So look straight to Dave Gettleman for the impending disaster in 2019. Let's hope his HUGE gamble pays off in following years. DG didn't sign Beckham just to trade him. He signed him in the hopes that the 2018 Giants were closer to the 11-5 2016 team than they were to the 3-13 2017 team. Once it became apparent that they were closer to the 2017 team, and that the 2016 was an aberration, than he did what good managers do, he pivoted. And ODB was our best trade chip. A chip that has so far turned into two young defensive starters this year, and who knows what more it can be once he can use the freed up cap space next year. The ODB trade has the potential to net the Giants 4 or 5 starting players. This is what a rebuild looks like when you start off with a team full of a bunch of over paid veterans. There was no way they could do a proper rebuild while keeping all of those bloated contracts on the books. He quickly moved most of them off the books. And pretty much all of them will be off by next offseason. Including Eli. Saving cap space for this year made no sense when the goal was for this to be a rebuilding season. Even the Golden Tate and Ogletree contracts they can get out of after this year. Better to go 4-12 than 6-10 or 7-9. Especially going into an offseason that may again have a number of top QB prospects where you can possibly get alot out of trading down. I strongly agree with your OBJ statement. Managers need to be decisive regarding big assets and their potential return in the future. Keeping a WR on a $90 Million dollar contract when a team is completely in the toilet makes no sense whatsoever... In addition, reports were coming out that OBJ wasn't even happy with the Giants and he also has a propensity to do and say stupid things. I just don't understand who in their right mind would want to keep a player like that when you are trying to develop a young team... So lets look at his production in Clevland through 5 games and see that he has 67 yards per game and one TD (Most of these yards and the TD came from 1 play). Wahoooo!
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Post by hadenough on Oct 9, 2019 12:46:12 GMT -5
He has set everything up for next year. Right now about $65 mil under the cap. With possible cuts of Ogletree, Martin, Ellison and/or Jenkins...they can add about $30 mil more space. They will likely be Top 5 in cap space next year.
Eli and Odell off the books next year.
This has always been about next year and the years after.
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Merlin
Special Teams
Posts: 330
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Post by Merlin on Oct 9, 2019 12:47:06 GMT -5
Yes we have injuries. But why on earth are we this bad when guys get hurt?
Let's look at it.
The Giants have NO veteran depth. We have essentially one veteran corner. We had two RB's entering the season. Our depth all over the field are guys who have never played NFL football.
Why has Dave put us here? We have over $40MM in dead cap money.....and THAT is on Dave. That doesn't include the $17MM we could have saved if we didn't pick up Eli's last year of his deal...which we didn't have to. He's the most expensive back up QB in the NFL.
He traded Odell which gave us a $16MM dead cap hit. That was shortly after he SIGNED Odell (not to trade him). The trading of Snacks, Vernon and Apple gave us a combined $14MM in dead cap money. he signed Omameh and then cut him which cost us another $3MM in 2019.
Now Dave gets a pass if we improve dramatically next season. All this dead cap money is off the books in 2020.
It looks like he hit on Daniel Jones and that's a huge check on his side of the ledger. But he has played Russian Roulette with our future by paying a bunch of guys a lot of money NOT to play for us. He banked on a long shot for the 2019 Giants....and seems to have lost. Another wasted season.
That is why we have NO depth. That is why when OUR guys get hurt, the team falls apart. We are fielding a glorified college team if we can't stay healthy...and what NFL team ever stays healthy?
So look straight to Dave Gettleman for the impending disaster in 2019. Let's hope his HUGE gamble pays off in following years.
This is all true. He def sacrificed this current yr for the future. All will be forgiven based on what he does with the cap in 2020 and the progression of Jones, along with his 2 draft classes.
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Post by jb456 on Oct 9, 2019 12:58:25 GMT -5
Yes we have injuries. But why on earth are we this bad when guys get hurt?
Let's look at it.
The Giants have NO veteran depth. We have essentially one veteran corner. We had two RB's entering the season. Our depth all over the field are guys who have never played NFL football.
Why has Dave put us here? We have over $40MM in dead cap money.....and THAT is on Dave. That doesn't include the $17MM we could have saved if we didn't pick up Eli's last year of his deal...which we didn't have to. He's the most expensive back up QB in the NFL.
He traded Odell which gave us a $16MM dead cap hit. That was shortly after he SIGNED Odell (not to trade him). The trading of Snacks, Vernon and Apple gave us a combined $14MM in dead cap money. he signed Omameh and then cut him which cost us another $3MM in 2019.
Now Dave gets a pass if we improve dramatically next season. All this dead cap money is off the books in 2020.
It looks like he hit on Daniel Jones and that's a huge check on his side of the ledger. But he has played Russian Roulette with our future by paying a bunch of guys a lot of money NOT to play for us. He banked on a long shot for the 2019 Giants....and seems to have lost. Another wasted season.
That is why we have NO depth. That is why when OUR guys get hurt, the team falls apart. We are fielding a glorified college team if we can't stay healthy...and what NFL team ever stays healthy?
So look straight to Dave Gettleman for the impending disaster in 2019. Let's hope his HUGE gamble pays off in following years.
Yeah. And I’m sure Thanos meant well, but I’ve got to go by actual events and results so when you bring up dead cap money, which of those signings (and eventual departures) between Beckham, Vernon, Apple and Harrison are really worth laying at the feet of the GM? He has made mistakes for sure but to your point they had to get rid of a bunch of existing players that were never going to get the Giants to their ultimate goal. The sign and trade of OBJ was by far his worst decision and the Giants paid for it in terms a big Cap hit this year. A $3M dead cap hit for Omameh is small potatoes in terms of cap space. Getting rid of Vernon and Apple was a smart move. The giants need another draft or 2 to replenish their ranks but realistically Shermur and maybe DG have only until the end of 2020 to show some real improvement or they are done....
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smitty
Special Teams
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Post by smitty on Oct 9, 2019 13:06:01 GMT -5
They paid Eli for three reasons. First,they had to see Jones' development over the Summer to see if he was viable to play this year. Second, Eli was/is a perfect mentor for a rookie QB. Third, they honored Eli's contract as a reward for his countless years of dutiful service.
Regarding OBJ, I thought it was a shrewd move re-signing and then trading him. DG played that off beautifully as just fielding an offer he couldn't refuse, not the reality of the headache he was trying to rid himself of. We got top dollar for Odell and were able to acquire Peppers and Zeitler, while ridding ourselves of that pig Vernon and letting Collins go.
Snacks and Apple? Good riddance and thankful we got a 4th and a 5th.
I think you will see Gettleman be conservative about FA acquisitions upcoming, but he will have plenty of capital. All the cap pain ends after this year.
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Post by dannydimes8 on Oct 9, 2019 13:28:22 GMT -5
The GM and HCs job performance is graded in wins and losses. Not caproom, potential, individual moves or draft picks. The 53 man roster and how it plays are their job. So far they are 7-14 going on 7-15.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 9, 2019 13:33:12 GMT -5
Yup....BUT you can't blame it on Eli!!! the old scape goat is gone heres a new one, were they supposed to keep the most over paid non productive free agents in the league for the life of there lousy over paid contracts lol, so soon the record breaking defense of 2017 record breaking for all the wrong reasons and injury free is forgotten, 18 months you couldn't fix that disaster 36 months, If your gonna be bad do it with young growing players , not OV Snacks and JPP having royal rumble and LC and Eli Apple at war and 1 linebacker under contract and 2 OLs, where are the vets coming from lol, remember 1 thing there is 40 mill in dead cap because if they didn't cut bait it would have stalled this rebuild until they got rid of that dead weight and it was dead weight.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 9, 2019 13:36:42 GMT -5
The GM and HCs job performance is graded in wins and losses. Not caproom, potential, individual moves or draft picks. The 53 man roster and how it plays are their job. So far they are 7-14 going on 7-15. They just got done house cleaning the filth that was left for them this past offseason lol you don't fix 7-8 years of bad drafts and bad free agency signings in 18 or 20 months.
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Post by hadenough on Oct 9, 2019 13:40:21 GMT -5
The GM and HCs job performance is graded in wins and losses. Not caproom, potential, individual moves or draft picks. The 53 man roster and how it plays are their job. So far they are 7-14 going on 7-15. They just got done house cleaning the filth that was left for them this past offseason lol you don't fix 7-8 years of bad drafts and bad free agency signings in 18 or 20 months. Right...at some point they are judged. But, not the beginning of a rebuild. Their time will start next year.
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Post by Roswell on Oct 9, 2019 13:44:18 GMT -5
DG didn't sign Beckham just to trade him. He signed him in the hopes that the 2018 Giants were closer to the 11-5 2016 team than they were to the 3-13 2017 team. Once it became apparent that they were closer to the 2017 team, and that the 2016 was an aberration, than he did what good managers do, he pivoted. And ODB was our best trade chip. A chip that has so far turned into two young defensive starters this year, and who knows what more it can be once he can use the freed up cap space next year. The ODB trade has the potential to net the Giants 4 or 5 starting players. This is what a rebuild looks like when you start off with a team full of a bunch of over paid veterans. There was no way they could do a proper rebuild while keeping all of those bloated contracts on the books. He quickly moved most of them off the books. And pretty much all of them will be off by next offseason. Including Eli. Saving cap space for this year made no sense when the goal was for this to be a rebuilding season. Even the Golden Tate and Ogletree contracts they can get out of after this year. Better to go 4-12 than 6-10 or 7-9. Especially going into an offseason that may again have a number of top QB prospects where you can possibly get alot out of trading down. I strongly agree with your OBJ statement. Managers need to be decisive regarding big assets and their potential return in the future. Keeping a WR on a $90 Million dollar contract when a team is completely in the toilet makes no sense whatsoever... In addition, reports were coming out that OBJ wasn't even happy with the Giants and he also has a propensity to do and say stupid things. I just don't understand who in their right mind would want to keep a player like that when you are trying to develop a young team... So lets look at his production in Clevland through 5 games and see that he has 67 yards per game and one TD (Most of these yards and the TD came from 1 play). Wahoooo! And to your point, Slayton has actually out produced Beckham over the games they have both played. That’s bound to correct itself but at least there’s no drama and embarrassment.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 9, 2019 13:46:52 GMT -5
Yeah. And I’m sure Thanos meant well, but I’ve got to go by actual events and results so when you bring up dead cap money, which of those signings (and eventual departures) between Beckham, Vernon, Apple and Harrison are really worth laying at the feet of the GM? He has made mistakes for sure but to your point they had to get rid of a bunch of existing players that were never going to get the Giants to their ultimate goal. The sign and trade of OBJ was by far his worst decision and the Giants paid for it in terms a big Cap hit this year. A $3M dead cap hit for Omameh is small potatoes in terms of cap space. Getting rid of Vernon and Apple was a smart move. The giants need another draft or 2 to replenish their ranks but realistically Shermur and maybe DG have only until the end of 2020 to show some real improvement or they are done.... Shurmur has till 2020, think the way the GM is drafting he will be here hiring the next coach, the OBJ deal was a big mistake but one thing that is new and unusual around here is actually seeing your mistake and cutting Bait, if that happened in the past DG might not be here and that over paid load of under achievers wouldn't either that have caused a massive cap hit, couldn't start a rebuild with that dead weight on the roster, Giants don't like firing GMs even when they have every reason to they won't that was proven from 2008 to 2017.
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Post by Kase1 on Oct 9, 2019 13:47:28 GMT -5
Yes we have injuries. But why on earth are we this bad when guys get hurt?
Let's look at it.
The Giants have NO veteran depth. We have essentially one veteran corner. We had two RB's entering the season. Our depth all over the field are guys who have never played NFL football.
Why has Dave put us here? We have over $40MM in dead cap money.....and THAT is on Dave. That doesn't include the $17MM we could have saved if we didn't pick up Eli's last year of his deal...which we didn't have to. He's the most expensive back up QB in the NFL.
He traded Odell which gave us a $16MM dead cap hit. That was shortly after he SIGNED Odell (not to trade him). The trading of Snacks, Vernon and Apple gave us a combined $14MM in dead cap money. he signed Omameh and then cut him which cost us another $3MM in 2019.
Now Dave gets a pass if we improve dramatically next season. All this dead cap money is off the books in 2020.
It looks like he hit on Daniel Jones and that's a huge check on his side of the ledger. But he has played Russian Roulette with our future by paying a bunch of guys a lot of money NOT to play for us. He banked on a long shot for the 2019 Giants....and seems to have lost. Another wasted season.
That is why we have NO depth. That is why when OUR guys get hurt, the team falls apart. We are fielding a glorified college team if we can't stay healthy...and what NFL team ever stays healthy?
So look straight to Dave Gettleman for the impending disaster in 2019. Let's hope his HUGE gamble pays off in following years.
Well tbh, it wasnt about THIS year. No matter how many people thought it WAS about this year, it wasnt. It was about next year and the years after that. We have a painfully young team who most of us knew that we werent doing much this year. While DJ looked good its not like he was gonna bring us to the big game, THIS YEAR. As for the dead money, we shed alot of big contracts that will put us in a great position for next years free agent class. [Im not sure if its a good class, but we will have the money to spend on what we need]. If you ask me he payed alot of money to not keep these older players with big contracts on our payroll, but its about the future, not the now. Come 2020 we will probably look for more veteran depth since we will actually have the money to do so. Sometimes you have to burn it to the ground to build a new This is 1 of the 1st years that im OK with it being a wash in the win/loss column, rather than just floating in a rudder-less boat circling around and going nowhere. I feel like we actually have the pieces in place to make an impact in the future.
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Post by hungrrrry on Oct 9, 2019 13:48:41 GMT -5
Yes we have injuries. But why on earth are we this bad when guys get hurt?
Let's look at it.
The Giants have NO veteran depth. We have essentially one veteran corner. We had two RB's entering the season. Our depth all over the field are guys who have never played NFL football.
Why has Dave put us here? We have over $40MM in dead cap money.....and THAT is on Dave. That doesn't include the $17MM we could have saved if we didn't pick up Eli's last year of his deal...which we didn't have to. He's the most expensive back up QB in the NFL.
He traded Odell which gave us a $16MM dead cap hit. That was shortly after he SIGNED Odell (not to trade him). The trading of Snacks, Vernon and Apple gave us a combined $14MM in dead cap money. he signed Omameh and then cut him which cost us another $3MM in 2019.
Now Dave gets a pass if we improve dramatically next season. All this dead cap money is off the books in 2020.
It looks like he hit on Daniel Jones and that's a huge check on his side of the ledger. But he has played Russian Roulette with our future by paying a bunch of guys a lot of money NOT to play for us. He banked on a long shot for the 2019 Giants....and seems to have lost. Another wasted season.
That is why we have NO depth. That is why when OUR guys get hurt, the team falls apart. We are fielding a glorified college team if we can't stay healthy...and what NFL team ever stays healthy?
So look straight to Dave Gettleman for the impending disaster in 2019. Let's hope his HUGE gamble pays off in following years.
We had to get rid of Odel...it became more apparent after the new contract was signed. I wanted that turd gone years ago! He is, and now the healing can start but there is a lot that Gettleman inherited and Eli (and the ownership's unspoken desire to have him retire as a Giant). So we take a loss for the 2019 season but who knows, maybe we salvage some things we didn't know we had. -Omameh was a blunder, no doubt, -Darious Slayton looks like he could contribute nicely. We wouldn't have seen him at all if OBJ was here. It may be a lost season to you but you need to look more closely and see where we are improving. -The Oline has improved and will trend upwards. Now we can focus on what we will need to do on defense. -Signing Golden is a priority already, this we now know. Lorenzo Carter is solid but not as well improved as I thought he would be to this point. Xminies is showing great promise as is Dexter Lawrence and even Deandre Baker is improving. These guys are all young!!!! -You have to look at it long term. Cleveland banked on managing for results now. I believe Gettleman is banking on results long term...I'll go with that everytime.
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Post by Parademon1 on Oct 9, 2019 13:53:31 GMT -5
This season's a wash guys. I just wanna see DJ progress & improve as QB. He has a stud RB, now he needs a stud WR to take the top off a D next yr, a couple more pieces added to the OL & improvement on the front 7 next yr. This team needs to show vast improvement in 20' & be a legit perennial playoff contender starting in 21'! None of this BS "make the playoffs 1 yr then miss it 2-3 yrs straight, then make it again"! I wanna see this team win 3 straight NFCE titles for the 1st time in their history! 89'-90' were the only 2 seasons that they won back to back div titles! That is totally pathetic.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 9, 2019 13:56:17 GMT -5
They just got done house cleaning the filth that was left for them this past offseason lol you don't fix 7-8 years of bad drafts and bad free agency signings in 18 or 20 months. Right...at some point they are judged. But, not the beginning of a rebuild. Their time will start next year. 2022 the clock starts ticking on the GM they are not even 2 years in with this rebuild they have 2 draft classes in the books, out of those 2 classes they yielded Barkely Heranadez Lawrence might be as good as any of them connelly Slayton Hill Carter is a decent 3rd rounder and still not even 2 years in Got Peppers who is an upgrade to Collins and Zietler who is the bst OL here in the last 8-9 years.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2019 13:57:05 GMT -5
But......everyone knew all this already. Why is it an issue NOW? Did DJ put a glimmer of hope in your heart only to have it come crashing down when you realized that the rest of the team still sucks? Why all the vitriol towards Gettleman before his plan is even completely fulfilled? He's rebuilding the roster. That's not something that's accomplished in one off-season and 4 games. This is a marathon and we are only at the first leg of it. We are not going to win very many games this year. At best we win 7 and that's being optimistic.
And I got news for some of you who think DG is on his way out after 2020. Take a look at your Giants history and just see how quickly they move on from GM's. Shurmur may be gone if he can't get that offense humming by the end of 2020, but Gettleman will be given time to rebuild.
Just try and accept that we are not making the playoffs and remember that Jones is getting some valuable experience playing in adverse conditions.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 9, 2019 14:08:26 GMT -5
Yes we have injuries. But why on earth are we this bad when guys get hurt?
Let's look at it.
The Giants have NO veteran depth. We have essentially one veteran corner. We had two RB's entering the season. Our depth all over the field are guys who have never played NFL football.
Why has Dave put us here? We have over $40MM in dead cap money.....and THAT is on Dave. That doesn't include the $17MM we could have saved if we didn't pick up Eli's last year of his deal...which we didn't have to. He's the most expensive back up QB in the NFL.
He traded Odell which gave us a $16MM dead cap hit. That was shortly after he SIGNED Odell (not to trade him). The trading of Snacks, Vernon and Apple gave us a combined $14MM in dead cap money. he signed Omameh and then cut him which cost us another $3MM in 2019.
Now Dave gets a pass if we improve dramatically next season. All this dead cap money is off the books in 2020.
It looks like he hit on Daniel Jones and that's a huge check on his side of the ledger. But he has played Russian Roulette with our future by paying a bunch of guys a lot of money NOT to play for us. He banked on a long shot for the 2019 Giants....and seems to have lost. Another wasted season.
That is why we have NO depth. That is why when OUR guys get hurt, the team falls apart. We are fielding a glorified college team if we can't stay healthy...and what NFL team ever stays healthy?
So look straight to Dave Gettleman for the impending disaster in 2019. Let's hope his HUGE gamble pays off in following years.
We had to get rid of Odel...it became more apparent after the new contract was signed. I wanted that turd gone years ago! He is, and now the healing can start but there is a lot that Gettleman inherited and Eli (and the ownership's unspoken desire to have him retire as a Giant). So we take a loss for the 2019 season but who knows, maybe we salvage some things we didn't know we had. -Omameh was a blunder, no doubt, -Darious Slayton looks like he could contribute nicely. We wouldn't have seen him at all if OBJ was here. It may be a lost season to you but you need to look more closely and see where we are improving. -The Oline has improved and will trend upwards. Now we can focus on what we will need to do on defense. -Signing Golden is a priority already, this we now know. Lorenzo Carter is solid but not as well improved as I thought he would be to this point. Xminies is showing great promise as is Dexter Lawrence and even Deandre Baker is improving. These guys are all young!!!! -You have to look at it long term. Cleveland banked on managing for results now. I believe Gettleman is banking on results long term...I'll go with that everytime. Most of the issues that were pointed out were inherrited past free agent mistakes, and as we saw with DG he don't care if he brings you in or Reese if they don't produce they will be gone and if they can do it sooner as in Omameh case they will.
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 9, 2019 14:19:58 GMT -5
For all of you who say that 2019 was always going to suck...then why keep Eli? A $17MM mentor? Really?
Dave thought 2018 was going to be much better. Then Dave thought 2019 was going to be much better. He was wrong both times.
It's clear to me that he "hoped" Eli could function with a better O line and that IF everyone stayed healthy...we could have a decent year.
Wrong again.
It seems to me one of the biggest problems with our team the last two seasons is that Dave mis-judged them. We have a GM who has shown poor judgement regarding our team over the last two years.
We hired him FOR his judgement......Right?
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Post by trueblueatnyc on Oct 9, 2019 14:21:21 GMT -5
I really don't get the premise of people saying DG made a mistake by signing Odell. Signing ODB and paying that signing bonus money is what allowed DG to get a good return on Beckham. If they don't resign ODB, and let him walk this past offseason, all they get is a 3rd round comp pick for him. By signing him, then trading him, they got a 1st, Peppers and a 3rd rounder. That's a pretty good return considering that the biggest downside with the signing was eating cap space in a year you weren't going to be a player in free agency anyway.
Now. I doublt DG planned for it to all happen this way. But. Signing ODB was certainly the right move. They either got the trade out of him, or they kept a great player.
And again. ODB may eventually turn into 5 starting players for this team. That's a huge return on moving an asset.
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