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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 9, 2019 15:38:55 GMT -5
What? You never heard the story about the frog and the scorpion? He must be one of the frog's warts. Baaahahahaaaaa
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 9, 2019 15:39:58 GMT -5
Please, Gettleman did the right thing to clear the books and rid the team of cancers and overpaid non-performers. Reese is the moron that put the Giants in cap hell. Gettleman is now unwinding it. Only a nitwit would think he wasn’t right to do what he did. Perhaps if you relaxed and thought about it carefully you would understand.....but after reading this I’ll-conceived rant it is clear that thinking may not be your strong suit. ...can I assume that Morehead is sleeping with your ex-wife? Because that would be about he only thing that would explain the tone of your response. He is like this with everyone
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Post by Delicreep on Oct 9, 2019 15:42:48 GMT -5
...can I assume that Morehead is sleeping with your ex-wife? Because that would be about he only thing that would explain the tone of your response. He is like this with everyone Is everyone sleeping with his ex-wife?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2019 15:44:01 GMT -5
...can I assume that Morehead is sleeping with your ex-wife? Because that would be about he only thing that would explain the tone of your response. He is like this with everyone Penis envy
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2019 15:46:11 GMT -5
Yup....BUT you can't blame it on Eli!!! ..............they will anyway. Let's not start down that rabbit hole again. Focus.
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Post by TEM on Oct 9, 2019 15:48:06 GMT -5
I was wondering why nobody was discussing all the dead money and how hard it is to field a competitive team with this much. I guess we now get the chance and like others are saying it's 2020 for them or see you later! He is at an inherent disadvantage . His team has 18% less of the cap to spend because of the enormous dead cap money
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Post by snyder55 on Oct 9, 2019 15:55:43 GMT -5
one of my problems with this team right now is that it is paying 17 million dollars to a guy who is sitting on the bench because he is no longer good enough to start, who does that? certainly not smart teams.
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Post by TEM on Oct 9, 2019 16:05:18 GMT -5
Yes we have injuries. But why on earth are we this bad when guys get hurt?
Let's look at it.
The Giants have NO veteran depth. We have essentially one veteran corner. We had two RB's entering the season. Our depth all over the field are guys who have never played NFL football.
Why has Dave put us here? We have over $40MM in dead cap money.....and THAT is on Dave. That doesn't include the $17MM we could have saved if we didn't pick up Eli's last year of his deal...which we didn't have to. He's the most expensive back up QB in the NFL.
He traded Odell which gave us a $16MM dead cap hit. That was shortly after he SIGNED Odell (not to trade him). The trading of Snacks, Vernon and Apple gave us a combined $14MM in dead cap money. he signed Omameh and then cut him which cost us another $3MM in 2019.
Now Dave gets a pass if we improve dramatically next season. All this dead cap money is off the books in 2020.
It looks like he hit on Daniel Jones and that's a huge check on his side of the ledger. But he has played Russian Roulette with our future by paying a bunch of guys a lot of money NOT to play for us. He banked on a long shot for the 2019 Giants....and seems to have lost. Another wasted season.
That is why we have NO depth. That is why when OUR guys get hurt, the team falls apart. We are fielding a glorified college team if we can't stay healthy...and what NFL team ever stays healthy?
So look straight to Dave Gettleman for the impending disaster in 2019. Let's hope his HUGE gamble pays off in following years.
We sucked in part because the previous FO staff spent 57% of the cap on 13 players. ( 2017) That is not Dave fault. 13 mid level contract (1-3 million a year)and 59 (under a million) revolving door bottom dwellers. It is next to impossible to win with that combination of disparity in pay . The team was handcuffed by poor money management. Dave had to get rid of the big contracts. Next year he needs to purge the bottom dwellers and use the freed up cap space on Mid Level contracts (depth) . Bottom Dwellers are not depth. They are excuses for lack of resources needed to field a competitive team
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Post by snyder55 on Oct 9, 2019 16:05:41 GMT -5
I think that you might be underestimating the FO's desire to bring DJ in to the Giants fold as smoothly as possible. There is no one on the planet more suited to guiding the next franchise QB than Eli...a lot of money, but a small investment when you consider the value that has I don't have an issue with keeping Eli because we weren't going to compete this year anyway and our cap space next year is what I'm really looking forward to. But I don't think he should have ever started over Jones. I know its not my money but I have a problem with the team paying Eli 17 million dollars to sit on the bench, to me that's money that could have been better spent, it was just a bad decision in keeping Eli ...
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Post by Kruunch on Oct 9, 2019 16:19:31 GMT -5
I’ve been bashing Gettleman since the day he got hired. What is the common responses when Gettleman is questioned with his moves? He’s fixing a broken culture, he found our QB, it takes time to rebuild, blah blah blah. So far we’re still losing.. again.. Shocking, and we’re rebuilding, well it seems Gettleman took notes from how to rebuild Rome. Because it seems it will take forever to finally get it fixed. He not only tore the team apart, but he has found new and exotic ways to rebuild the roster two straight years. One year we’re a win now team, BS, the next we’re rebuilding. What’s the plan? Is there a plan? If so let me know.. I’m so glad that not only are we losing, but we’re losing with class.
Everything the OP stated is true, you can polish a turd all you want and give it a nice name. But it’s still a turd. When the wins start coming I’ll start to have faith, until then bring on the loses.. Because they’re coming
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Post by shocknaweny on Oct 9, 2019 16:27:03 GMT -5
Dave did not sign guys like Vernon or Harrison in the first place and he did not draft that garbage sack Apple....that is all on Jerry Reese. Eli that is on him but I am sure his hands were tied by that dope of an owner we have
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 9, 2019 16:33:38 GMT -5
A well run team doesn't have to spend 200 mill in free agency a well run team doesn't have to 50 or 60 mill in free agency, the Giants are trying to become a well run team, first you have to erase the sins of the past, the point here is they spent a ton of money in 2015 -2016 what they got for that money were a group of guys that had 0 allegiance to the Giants they weren't drafted by the Giants and when it came down to it they were happy to win a little in 2016 and seemed just as satisfied to collect a huge check every week and put an embarrassing product on the field in 2017, several of them loved being the highest paid players at their positions and made it clear they had no interest in being leaders helping the younger guys coming in, this is why we need to build through the draft and take our lumps, as far as keeping Eli on the books he gave more then all of these guys let go combined, he still is working with the rookie and doing all he can for the team, if your counting on free agency to make this team competitive you better rethink that strategy it has all ready failed here and all over the NFL.
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Post by Kruunch on Oct 9, 2019 16:42:21 GMT -5
I’ve been bashing Gettleman since the day he got hired Everything the OP stated is true, Yes you have and so have others . The OP makes some points but to blame DG in reality is wrong. Yes as the GM of the Giants he will take the responsibility but being realistic , no. No one in their first year could fix this cluster that was left to him by Reese , his second year there is improvement and I think we can all agree he has done well draft wise so far ,as for FA it's up to question. Barkley , a good move, Odell trade a good move, not resigning Collins , the Danial Jones draft a good move and we have picked up some nice young talent but the sad part is we need alot more . The good news is Gettleman gives me so much material to use. The guy is a goldmine for jokes, at his expense of course... This season seems to be a give up year, which I find to be utterly ridiculous. When does he become accountable for what is on the field? It seems Gettleman has so much rope to do what he wants that he not only will strangle our team but us as well. Patience is not my virtue.
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Post by Kruunch on Oct 9, 2019 16:51:06 GMT -5
When does he become accountable for what is on the field? Patience is not my virtue. He has always accepted responsibility it's we as fans that need to be smarter. If patience is not "your virtue",................you picked the wrong team to root for. No, I picked the right team. I just won’t be fooled by someone pissing on my shoulder and telling me it’s raining.
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Post by nick030567 on Oct 9, 2019 17:14:31 GMT -5
Yup....BUT you can't blame it on Eli!!! the old scape goat is gone heres a new one, were they supposed to keep the most over paid non productive free agents in the league for the life of there lousy over paid contracts lol, so soon the record breaking defense of 2017 record breaking for all the wrong reasons and injury free is forgotten, 18 months you couldn't fix that disaster 36 months, If your gonna be bad do it with young growing players , not OV Snacks and JPP having royal rumble and LC and Eli Apple at war and 1 linebacker under contract and 2 OLs, where are the vets coming from lol, remember 1 thing there is 40 mill in dead cap because if they didn't cut bait it would have stalled this rebuild until they got rid of that dead weight and it was dead weight. Yeah some people don't understand that those signings were pretty much desperation signings from years of bad drafting, and bad injury luck. There were no impact players on defense aside from JPP who had lost some fingers. It helped for a season but imploded after that. In hindsight it probably would've made more sense to stick with Amukamara rather than sign Jenkins, keep Joseph opposed to having to sign Snacks. At least there would be that Giants Super Bowl culture and camaraderie.
The facts are that after trading those players this team has gotten better for the future. And the defense was just as bad with Snacks and Vernon too.
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Post by Sarcasman on Oct 9, 2019 17:16:51 GMT -5
And with it all, missing their best player, starting their rookie QB, and trading their superstar WR, the NY Giants are one game out of first heading into week 6. They are not good but football is a funny game. For all we know, Thursday night is an Eli Penny Party. You never know. I think Gettleman knows full well that to be average in this league doesn't take all that much and that's been his approach while making long term decisions to try to create a winning roster and build a solid and deep team that is sustainable for the long term. I'm not to buy into the idea that this happened recently, it didn't, The roster has been warmed over crap for nearly a decade (yeah, yeah tell me more about the fabulous weapons as if this actually was a fantasy football team) and it takes time to build not only a solid starting roster but the depth behind it. Add to that a meddlesome owner who may or may not have exacerbated these issue both now and in the past and I'm not the least bit surprised we are where we are.
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Post by TEM on Oct 9, 2019 17:20:32 GMT -5
And with it all, missing their best player, starting their rookie QB, and trading their superstar WR, the NY Giants are one game out of first heading into week 6. They are not good but football is a funny game. For all we know, Thursday night is an Eli Penny Party. You never know. I think Gettleman knows full well that to be average in this league doesn't take all that much and that's been his approach while making long term decisions to try to create a winning roster and build a solid and deep team that is sustainable for the long term. I'm not to buy into the idea that this happened recently, it didn't, The roster has been warmed over crap for nearly a decade (yeah, yeah tell me more about the fabulous weapons as if this actually was a fantasy football team) and it takes time to build not only a solid starting roster but the depth behind it. Add to that a meddlesome owners who may or may not have exacerbated these issue both now and in the past and I'm not the least bit surprised we are where we are. Had to fix that for you . Chris has his spoon in the soup as well.
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Post by Sarcasman on Oct 9, 2019 17:22:20 GMT -5
But......everyone knew all this already. Why is it an issue NOW? Did DJ put a glimmer of hope in your heart only to have it come crashing down when you realized that the rest of the team still sucks? Why all the vitriol towards Gettleman before his plan is even completely fulfilled? He's rebuilding the roster. That's not something that's accomplished in one off-season and 4 games. This is a marathon and we are only at the first leg of it. We are not going to win very many games this year. At best we win 7 and that's being optimistic. And I got news for some of you who think DG is on his way out after 2020. Take a look at your Giants history and just see how quickly they move on from GM's. Shurmur may be gone if he can't get that offense humming by the end of 2020, but Gettleman will be given time to rebuild. Just try and accept that we are not making the playoffs and remember that Jones is getting some valuable experience playing in adverse conditions. There's probably more than a few folks here that were secretly wishing for validation that complicated problems were actually solvable with simple solutions. Count me amongst those that never believed that, even after the Tampa game.
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Post by Sarcasman on Oct 9, 2019 17:27:36 GMT -5
Please, Gettleman did the right thing to clear the books and rid the team of cancers and overpaid non-performers. Reese is the moron that put the Giants in cap hell. Gettleman is now unwinding it. Only a nitwit would think he wasn’t right to do what he did. Perhaps if you relaxed and thought about it carefully you would understand.....but after reading this I’ll-conceived rant it is clear that thinking may not be your strong suit. Southern bumpkin the actual biggest overpaid non-performer over the past few years has been Eli and while we can’t call Eli a cancer we can definitely say he’s killed our cap being paid like he was a good player when he wasn’t worth a wooden nickel. The other players might not have been what Gettleman’s vision was what a Giant looks like but at least they were still producing and the most overpaid was the one killing the team. Of course, look how much better we are now.
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Post by trueblueatnyc on Oct 9, 2019 17:49:44 GMT -5
I don't have an issue with keeping Eli because we weren't going to compete this year anyway and our cap space next year is what I'm really looking forward to. But I don't think he should have ever started over Jones. I know its not my money but I have a problem with the team paying Eli 17 million dollars to sit on the bench, to me that's money that could have been better spent, it was just a bad decision in keeping Eli ... Why? They weren't spending that money this year anyway, especially on any player that would have significantly changed the course of this season. On the other side, you get to evaluate your team around a known commodity at QB who you also know likes the kid and will mentor him. And his money comes off the board when the team really intends to use it, in 2020. Also, it gives the team the chance to say they tried with Eli, and it makes it easier to them to keep him as a spokesperson and all that stuff. In the end, come next year no one will care what Eli was being paid in 2019 to be a back-up.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2019 19:05:37 GMT -5
I’ve been bashing Gettleman since the day he got hired. What is the common responses when Gettleman is questioned with his moves? He’s fixing a broken culture, he found our QB, it takes time to rebuild, blah blah blah. So far we’re still losing.. again.. Shocking, and we’re rebuilding, well it seems Gettleman took notes from how to rebuild Rome. Because it seems it will take forever to finally get it fixed. He not only tore the team apart, but he has found new and exotic ways to rebuild the roster two straight years. One year we’re a win now team, BS, the next we’re rebuilding. What’s the plan? Is there a plan? If so let me know.. I’m so glad that not only are we losing, but we’re losing with class. Everything the OP stated is true, you can polish a turd all you want and give it a nice name. But it’s still a turd. When the wins start coming I’ll start to have faith, until then bring on the loses.. Because they’re coming I really don't understand your line of thinking on this. I really don't. All of the stuff you are calling "blah blah blah" are actual facts!! Do you think the mess he inherited was going to be fixed overnight? Are you an "instant gratification" millennial? We are all sick of losing, but you have to be more realistic. This team has sucked for years. Give the ****ing guy a break and let's see how things play out. He's not going anywhere anytime soon.
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Post by southerner on Oct 9, 2019 19:06:11 GMT -5
So many here want instantaneous “wins” without any regard for the future....that was the Reese way...and it doesn’t work. Gettleman is building a team and some here are freaking it isn’t done after 1 and third seasons...that is ridiculous. It will take 3 full years, like it or not.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2019 19:09:12 GMT -5
So many here want instantaneous “wins” without any regard for the future....that was the Reese way...and it doesn’t work. Gettleman is building a team and some here are freaking it isn’t done after 1 and third seasons...that is ridiculous. It will take 3 full years, like it or not. So you CAN make a valid point without being a condescending asshat. There's hope for you yet.
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Post by cruzsoldier on Oct 9, 2019 19:23:05 GMT -5
For all of you who say that 2019 was always going to suck...then why keep Eli? A $17MM mentor? Really? Dave thought 2018 was going to be much better. Then Dave thought 2019 was going to be much better. He was wrong both times. It's clear to me that he "hoped" Eli could function with a better O line and that IF everyone stayed healthy...we could have a decent year. Wrong again. It seems to me one of the biggest problems with our team the last two seasons is that Dave mis-judged them. We have a GM who has shown poor judgement regarding our team over the last two years. We hired him FOR his judgement......Right? I agree. In fact, I called for Eli to go after we drafted Jones. It's exactly what should have happened. But, I think you are completely down playing Mara's role in all this. Fbomb, morehead, myself have probably been the biggest advocates to replace Eli on this message board. I’m sure there are more “Eli haters” that wanted to replace him but I’m glad we are transitioning this year and not giving Eli another excuse to have our team in the toilet again. This team isn’t good at a lot of positions on the team. We have a lot of needs here are the major ones: 1. We need a bonafide pass rushing LB to play in the 3-4. 2. We are stuck with Nate Solder another year but we need 2 offensive tackles. 3. We need a true #1 WR Sheppard is no better than a #2 and Golden Tate’s(probably at best a 2nd to 3rd option) contract was mind boggling. 4.We need a FS to cover the deep part of the field.
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Post by cruzsoldier on Oct 9, 2019 19:31:22 GMT -5
Southern bumpkin the actual biggest overpaid non-performer over the past few years has been Eli and while we can’t call Eli a cancer we can definitely say he’s killed our cap being paid like he was a good player when he wasn’t worth a wooden nickel. The other players might not have been what Gettleman’s vision was what a Giant looks like but at least they were still producing and the most overpaid was the one killing the team. Of course, look how much better we are now. Well great point nothing has changed this is still a bad team what will Gettleman say now “well at least we have a good culture?” He might have made a few good draft picks but he’s not making quality moves with our cap space.
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 9, 2019 20:12:05 GMT -5
So if I'm understanding you correctly you are saying that he dumped a bunch of good players because they were bad guys in the locker room.....Is this right? Snacks, Vernon, Odell.....all bad dudes? So if he was willing to absorb a $40MM+ dead cap hit in 2019...then why keep Eli? Why add $17MM to that $40MM?
As one reads your inane opening rant, you are rarely right. If you read my post it states that he got rid of cancers AND those overpaid non performers. If you can’t see that, you are clueless. Signing Odell was a leap of faith by ownership, which Gettleman would never have done left to his own devices....just ask Steve Smith and Josh Norman. Paying ANY WR $20M is insane and creates weaknesses everywhere in the roster.......and now the Browns are learning that hard lesson as they now have an offensive line like that Giants had last season. Was Odell a cancer YES he was, and so was Collins. Both teams acquiring them now suck. Still Gettleman was able to gather a whole lot of draft capital by trading Odell that was under contract...3 starters and this is NOT what he would have received if he traded Odell before this contract was in hand.....once again, think. Please define "cancer" in this context.
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 9, 2019 20:14:21 GMT -5
Why must you act like an asshole ALL THE TIME? What? You never heard the story about the frog and the scorpion? Excellent reference.
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 9, 2019 20:15:26 GMT -5
So many here want instantaneous “wins” without any regard for the future....that was the Reese way...and it doesn’t work. Gettleman is building a team and some here are freaking it isn’t done after 1 and third seasons...that is ridiculous. It will take 3 full years, like it or not. It is year two. How much improvement do you see?
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Post by Roswell on Oct 9, 2019 20:43:30 GMT -5
So many here want instantaneous “wins” without any regard for the future....that was the Reese way...and it doesn’t work. Gettleman is building a team and some here are freaking it isn’t done after 1 and third seasons...that is ridiculous. It will take 3 full years, like it or not. It is year two. How much improvement do you see? Fair question. Well, they’ve seemingly had two good drafts in a row. That’s something that hasn’t happened in forever. Also, they have what’s a pretty good bet to be their franchise QB. That’s really what this year had to be all about. Additionally, he shed the inherited contracts of Apple, Vernon and others and ate the money in a year when they weren’t going to be in the playoff hunt. He cut Flowers and Hart. For that alone he should get the Nobel prize. And he got rid of the biggest headache in team history before said headache could throw a wrench into the development of the young QB with his non stop drama. He let Collins walk instead of overpaying for him. Has he made mistakes? Of course. But the Beckham issue is on the owner. We both know that GMs don’t write $90m checks. Owners do. And GMs don’t burn huge money to move a guy, owners do. His mistakes are well documented with Omaneh, Stewart and others. But he owned those quickly. Eli’s signing was another mistake. Again I feel it was in large part influenced by ownership. They are finally on the right track. They just need Mara to stay out of it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2019 20:47:08 GMT -5
It is year two. How much improvement do you see? Fair question. Well, they’ve seemingly had two good drafts in a row. That’s something has hasn’t happened in forever. Also, they have what’s a pretty good bet to be their franchise QB. That’s really what this year had to be all about. Additionally, he shed the inherited contracts of Apple, Vernon and others and ate the money in a year when they weren’t going to be in the playoff hunt. He cut Flowers and Hart. For that alone he should get the Nobel prize. And he got rid of the biggest headache in team history before said headache could throw a wrench into the development of the young QB with his non stop drama. He let Collins walk instead of overpaying for him. Has he made mistakes? Of course. But the Beckham issue is on the owner. We both know that GMs don’t write $90m checks. Owners do. And GMs don’t burn huge money to move a guy, owners do.
His mistakes are well documented with Omaneh, Stewart and others. But he owned those quickly. Eli’s signing was another mistake. Again I feel it was in large part influenced by ownership. They are finally on the right track. They just need Mara to stay out of it. The last several years of football misery lies at one person's feet.
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