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Post by nick030567 on Oct 11, 2019 10:26:10 GMT -5
Well first off we have to understand he's a rookie. But I think his accuracy is being over hyped thus far. He seriously has to improve his arm strength too. He throws some really great passes but he has a tendency to have plenty of inaccurate passes. We must also remember Eli looked bad his rookie year and had a lot of rough patches in 2005,06,07,10, and 13 ( I highlight these seasons because he made tons of bad mistakes, while contrary to popular belief I didn't see him make many bad decisions in say 2017 for instance, just a horrible team that year; just look at his interception totals for proof. In 2013 they were astronomical for instance)
I wouldn't even post these things if it wasn't for everyone gushing over how fantastic Jones is despite making worse decisions than Eli has made in recent years. I think it has a lot to do with his preseason performance, win against the BUcs and most of all his mobility. First impressions are huge for most people and not many rookies make the fantastic first impression Jones made. I just think people should be a little more balanced sometimes. I don't keep track but I'm sure a lot of those gushing over Jones shit all over Eli for having games like 28/36 269 yards, 2td and 1 Int with a horrible OL while being slow as molasses. While I see Jones making mistakes I think he's going to improve and become a great QB. A QB with the calm demeanor or Eli and the abilities of Aaron Rodgers.
With all of that said I still don't think JOnes played a bad game. We must remember that two of Jones' ints weren't his fault at all. On the first it was tipped and unluckily fell into the Pats arms, that just happens sometimes. The 2nd he was trying to throw it out of bounds, was highly pressured, his arm was hit and thus it effected his arm strength and went right to the Pats, but he tried making the right decision. The only int that was on him was the throw to Ellison, very bad ball placement. But I think he'll work on all of his other mistakes and be much improved next season.
This is possibly a game they might have won with Eli as starter because of his experience, but they definitely wouldn't have won the Bucs game without Jones.
Personally I think the Giants out played the Pats but the Giants mistakes were just too much to overcome. The punt block was huge and shouldn't have happened. The Refs also screwed the giants so many times I lost count. For instance the "late hit" call on Golden for blocking Brady in the field of play before the whistle was blown and the incomplete pass that should have been a fumble. The Pats are always getting extra help.
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 11, 2019 10:37:28 GMT -5
Seems he was dealing with the wind better than Brady I keep saying Brady is about done. He's obviously good still, but not close to what he was. The NE fans I work with talk about it all the time, the radio shows up here talk about it. They know the time is coming. He's 42.
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Post by nick030567 on Oct 11, 2019 10:38:38 GMT -5
his arm was hit on the one pick. That would be the bad decision...he held that ball way, way too long, given what was happening around him. Well Eli would get the ball to his check down in those scenarios and get lambasted on here. I do agree that Jones held on too long but I like his desire to make a play happen downfield.
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Post by Delicreep on Oct 11, 2019 10:46:29 GMT -5
That would be the bad decision...he held that ball way, way too long, given what was happening around him. Well Eli would get the ball to his check down in those scenarios and get lambasted on here. I do agree that Jones held on too long but I like his desire to make a play happen downfield. Well...the beauty of it may be that any decision was a bad decision, at least for this board!
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Post by Kruunch on Oct 11, 2019 10:55:53 GMT -5
I keep saying Brady is about done. He's obviously good still, but not close to what he was. The NE fans I work with talk about it all the time, the radio shows up here talk about it. They know the time is coming. He's 42. He’s a phenomenal player. And I’m not ashamed to say that. Guy is playing at an age that is unheard of at his position. Father Time usually kicks the door down on every athlete at one point. Brady has him in a headlock and giving him a noogie.
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Post by Fletch842 on Oct 11, 2019 11:36:22 GMT -5
Absolutely. The second pick was definitely a direct cause of that.
This is where coaching matters. I suspect he'll have a very good game next week though.
So these are the game experiences he needs...can't play the Skins every week and learn anything. Got to get beat up, fooled and beat. For sure. As he gains experience, his game will speed up. I don't see that as being a long term issue, just growing pains. I think last night will go a long way towards his education. Even with the turnovers, I'm quite impressed by him.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 11, 2019 11:57:09 GMT -5
He’s a phenomenal player. And I’m not ashamed to say that. Guy is playing at an age that is unheard of at his position. Father Time usually kicks the door down on every athlete at one point. Brady has him in a headlock and giving him a noogie. Yup... Thats what good PEDs do...
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mj312
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Post by mj312 on Oct 11, 2019 11:59:19 GMT -5
I think that jones did ok . That first game he had vs Tampa may have put too big of an expectation on him .. we all know he's talented but what he shows is exactly what most QBs would show with a lack of talent around him. I think he's trying to do too much and it's hurting him. I get It that we don't have saquan but it really sucks that have no one else that can run the ball . Gallman is ok but he just won't last unless he learns how to protect himself . He takes way too many big hits . After gallman we clearly can't run the ball which is putting way too much pressure on jones . I really don't understand how the Giants running backs always seem so below average . ( not including saquon ) . I feel like when I watch other teams no matter who runs the damn ball the backs are always making big plays and making people miss . The Giants always seem to have the most boring and basic backs on the market. I think what we are seeing is the the same thing most of us already know .. a very high percentage of QBs won't be successful without talent around them. They need guys making big plays to help them . Yeah Tate made a nice grab but it's just not enough . I don't want to see this kid lose his confidence. Shurmer needs to adapt a bit . We NEEDED a mobile Qb and Eli was holding the offense back sooooooo much because he's immobile and schurmer is running the same drop back passes with Jones . Get jones outside the pocket where he's not a sitting duck and let him be athletic and adapt a little .
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Post by nygiantfanalways on Oct 11, 2019 12:31:40 GMT -5
Considering he was without: Barkley, Shepard, Engram, and Gallmen I'd say he did OK. After all he was going against the #1 rated defense in the league. Not too mention the best head coach/defensive mind in NFL history. He is still a rookie and that was only his 4th start. There's going to be growing pains. That's just the way it is when your a rookie. Specially a rookie QB. But he has shown flashes in every game he's played. One thing I like is he seems to very accurate. The ball placement on the Tate TD was a thing of beauty. I'm sure we all can agree he's light years ahead of Eli's rookie season.
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DJones19
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Post by DJones19 on Oct 11, 2019 14:10:43 GMT -5
Looks like a rookie..... looks like Eli so inconsistent. That's much better than consistently bad like I've seen from many other rookie QBs who ended up having good careers
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gumby
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Post by gumby on Oct 11, 2019 14:20:38 GMT -5
One plus I did see from Jones was his ball sliced through the wind. He still threw some darts. Completely different from what we normally see with Eli and his floppy balls that flutter. Outside of that and the one pass to Tate for the TD, he was pretty bad. Wrong decisions, bad throws, still holds the ball way too long. Looks like a rookie..... looks like Eli so inconsistent. But you are not shocked that a rookie looks inconsistent, are you? DJ was terrible and inconsistent but no, I'm not shocked.
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Post by trueblueatnyc on Oct 11, 2019 14:49:32 GMT -5
He looked like a rookie last night and his play was one of the reasons they couldn't pull the upset. Every time the seemed to get some momentum he would turn the ball over.
He makes some really nice throws, and has good placement on the ball.
He really needs to work on his movement within the pocket. He drifts into pressure far too often and doesn't step up enough to let the pressure get redirected by him. Just solving that this season would make a huge difference in his game.
Another good point is that, the kid knows the score and knows when it's time to make risky throws in order to spark a comeback. Unfortunately, we don't seem to have any receivers that can consistently win contested balls.
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Post by IrishMike on Oct 11, 2019 14:51:54 GMT -5
I keep saying Brady is about done. He's obviously good still, but not close to what he was. The NE fans I work with talk about it all the time, the radio shows up here talk about it. They know the time is coming. He's 42. Oh I know. People keep trying to deny he is a human. Best damn 42 year old QB I have ever seen.
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Post by keyofgmen on Oct 11, 2019 14:59:59 GMT -5
I sure hope he makes it, but I'm a bit concerned. Mostly decision making. The 1st INT? That pass should have been in the 20th row 2 seconds earlier. I know... he will learn. I hope.
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Post by snyder55 on Oct 11, 2019 15:04:51 GMT -5
He is a rookie people . He is going to look horrible at times. He is going to look great at times. yep...so true..
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Post by Kruunch on Oct 11, 2019 15:11:45 GMT -5
He’s a phenomenal player. And I’m not ashamed to say that. Guy is playing at an age that is unheard of at his position. Father Time usually kicks the door down on every athlete at one point. Brady has him in a headlock and giving him a noogie. Yup... Thats what good PEDs do... Then I need the number of his dealer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2019 15:17:15 GMT -5
Yup... Thats what good PEDs do... Then I need the number of his dealer. So does Tate..
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Post by Kruunch on Oct 11, 2019 15:20:09 GMT -5
Then I need the number of his dealer. So does Tate.. After Tate’s response due to the suspension. I came to the conclusion he’s as sharp as a bag of wet hair.
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Post by jb456 on Oct 11, 2019 15:37:10 GMT -5
After Tate’s response due to the suspension. I came to the conclusion he’s as sharp as a bag of wet hair. That backwards walk into the endzone made me dislike him even more....
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Post by Delicreep on Oct 11, 2019 15:57:14 GMT -5
But you are not shocked that a rookie looks inconsistent, are you? DJ was terrible and inconsistent but no, I'm not shocked. Big Ben 27/24, 276 yards, 1 INT Fitzmagic 11/21, 89 yards, 3 INTs HOFer Josh Rosen 7/18, 97 yards, 1 INT HOFer Josh Allen 13/28, 153 yards 3 INTs
I skipped whoever the hell was behind center for the Jets and Colt McCoy for the Skins, but let's juts say, "not good". Two 2nd year guys highly touted...1 actual HOFer and career journeymen* Maybe DJ wasn't so terrible. Maybe that's a pretty good D. *I actually think that's not an apt description of Fitzpatrick, but it works here
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Post by DandyDon on Oct 11, 2019 16:14:22 GMT -5
I sure hope he makes it, but I'm a bit concerned. Mostly decision making. The 1st INT? That pass should have been in the 20th row 2 seconds earlier. I know... he will learn. I hope. The first int hit Tate right in the hands. It was a bit high, but it should have been caught. The second one you are correct.
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Post by keyofgmen on Oct 11, 2019 16:39:54 GMT -5
I sure hope he makes it, but I'm a bit concerned. Mostly decision making. The 1st INT? That pass should have been in the 20th row 2 seconds earlier. I know... he will learn. I hope. The first int hit Tate right in the hands. It was a bit high, but it should have been caught. The second one you are correct. yup... wrong order
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Post by lt56 on Oct 11, 2019 17:41:13 GMT -5
Shurmur just need to remind him to throw the ball away OUT OF BOUNDS
Rookie mistakes but he will only get better the more experience he gets, expected him to struggle vs Vikings and Patriots Defenses and he did. Those are some dominating Defenses. He had good moments against those Top Level Defenses as well which is something to build upon
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Post by Sarcasman on Oct 11, 2019 17:57:45 GMT -5
Seems he was dealing with the wind better than Brady I keep saying Brady is about done. He's obviously good still, but not close to what he was. The NE fans I work with talk about it all the time, the radio shows up here talk about it. They know the time is coming. That's been pretty obvious for a bit now. That said, him losing a bit off his fastball still makes him better than many other QBs and the system he is in does not require that he carry anything, just do his job. That helps enormously with longevity.
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Post by IrishMike on Oct 11, 2019 19:10:44 GMT -5
I keep saying Brady is about done. He's obviously good still, but not close to what he was. The NE fans I work with talk about it all the time, the radio shows up here talk about it. They know the time is coming. That's been pretty obvious for a bit now. That said, him losing a bit off his fastball still make shim better than many other QBs and the system he is on does not require that he carry anything, just do his job. That helps enormously with longevity. I agree. He just isn't the big bad boogy man any more. So is Patty Mahommes the best QB in the league right now? Is Wilson better than Brady this year? The changing of the guard is among us.
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Post by IrishMike on Oct 11, 2019 19:14:34 GMT -5
Shurmur just need to remind him to throw the ball away OUT OF BOUNDS Rookie mistakes but he will only get better the more experience he gets, expected him to struggle vs Vikings and Patriots Defenses and he did. Those are some dominating Defenses. He had good moments against those Top Level Defenses as well which is something to build upon Luckily it gets better playing the Cards and Lions the next 2 weeks. Then Dallas, Jets and Bears. We will see how the rest of the year goes, looking forward to watching this kid develop though. I was amazed all the Pats fans I work with were saying how impressed they were with Jones, even after that game. He really might be an ELIte Qb in the league in a couple years.
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Post by Kruunch on Oct 11, 2019 19:20:54 GMT -5
Shurmur just need to remind him to throw the ball away OUT OF BOUNDS Rookie mistakes but he will only get better the more experience he gets, expected him to struggle vs Vikings and Patriots Defenses and he did. Those are some dominating Defenses. He had good moments against those Top Level Defenses as well which is something to build upon Luckily it gets better playing the Cards and Lions the next 2 weeks. Then Dallas, Jets and Bears. We will see how the rest of the year goes, looking forward to watching this kid develop though. I was amazed all the Pats fans I work with were saying how impressed they were with Jones, even after that game. He really might be an ELIte Qb in the league in a couple years. You sure they weren’t being sarcastic with you? Besides the pass to Tate and a few throws in tight spots. What did he do that was not an utter disaster in last nights game? Want to give him credit for playing in a game with no weapons and no running game? I’ll give you that. And why are some downplaying the Lions? Same team that beat the Eagles and went toe to toe with the Chiefs and almost won? They aren’t a bad football team, we aren’t talking about the Detroit Tigers.
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Post by Miked1958 on Oct 11, 2019 19:25:03 GMT -5
Horrible conditions for passing last night, was very windy up here all night. Played the #1 with the best D coach ever perhaps. Had none of his weapons. With all that said he made some absolutely terrific throws. I mean just perfectly placed balls. Some other throws were a bit poor I think due to wind mostly. He for sure got confused on a few reads, that INT towards Ellison a good example. Overall he threw a TD pass against the Pats D and no one else has done that this year. technically he should of had 4 td passes against them. On 2 of them their D was totally beat. The long pass inches from Shepards fingertips. The one where shep wide open in back of endzone and threw to high And the one in endzone he put right on tue money and shep dropped it Nothing NE defense coukd of done about any of them. Slight miscues on DJs part and sheps. If the convert on those 3 add 18 points and they lose 35-32 Now on the 4th & 2 later in game if they had converted on the prior 3 they woukd of kicked a FG there. 35-35
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Post by IrishMike on Oct 11, 2019 20:06:04 GMT -5
technically he should of had 4 td passes against them. On 2 of them their D was totally beat. The long pass inches from Shepards fingertips. The one where shep wide open in back of endzone and threw to high And the one in endzone he put right on tue money and shep dropped it Nothing NE defense coukd of done about any of them. Slight miscues on DJs part and sheps. If the convert on those 3 add 18 points and they lose 35-32 Now on the 4th & 2 later in game if they had converted on the prior 3 they woukd of kicked a FG there. 35-35 Not to be a jerk but what are you talking about? Shep didn't play.
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Post by Nick6475 on Oct 11, 2019 20:11:53 GMT -5
DJ was terrible and inconsistent but no, I'm not shocked. Big Ben 27/24, 276 yards, 1 INT Fitzmagic 11/21, 89 yards, 3 INTs HOFer Josh Rosen 7/18, 97 yards, 1 INT HOFer Josh Allen 13/28, 153 yards 3 INTs
I skipped whoever the hell was behind center for the Jets and Colt McCoy for the Skins, but let's juts say, "not good". Two 2nd year guys highly touted...1 actual HOFer and career journeymen* Maybe DJ wasn't so terrible. Maybe that's a pretty good D. *I actually think that's not an apt description of Fitzpatrick, but it works here I don't know but 27/24 is pretty damn good...Big Ben managed to complete 3 passes he didn't even attempt!
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