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Post by jb456 on Oct 11, 2019 21:25:24 GMT -5
Why wouldn't we consider resigning him? He's a solid CB and his experience is valuable on a young team. Assuming he's not asking for the moon, I'd be fine having him back. I wouldn't let him fo or release him for nothing but im sure you seen a decline in his play. The wheels can fall off pretty quickly at corner so that's why I said get something for him now....
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Post by bringsimmsback on Oct 11, 2019 22:59:04 GMT -5
Why wouldn't we consider resigning him? He's a solid CB and his experience is valuable on a young team. Assuming he's not asking for the moon, I'd be fine having him back. I wouldn't let him fo or release him for nothing but im sure you seen a decline in his play. The wheels can fall off pretty quickly at corner so that's why I said get something for him now.... This. We can already see he isn't playing as well as he used to and we need to find his replacement next year regardless of trading him or not so may as well see what the young guys offer and get an extra draft pick to work with if they prove to only be depth. Another way to think about it: would we be willing to pay 11 million (what we save by cutting him) 1 year deal for him next year? If not, get what we can now.
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Post by ocgiant on Oct 11, 2019 23:25:36 GMT -5
We’re going to trade our best corner for a late round pick at best? Come on guys, I get this is a lost season. But are we waving the white flag before Halloween? It's not the time to go wholesale trading in the least Need to watch the season respectably with a chance to win This lose now to get a pick in the draft next year is nuts Root for the team not the future pick Makes little or no sense to me as a fan
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Post by DandyDon on Oct 11, 2019 23:53:23 GMT -5
He literally held Edleman for an entire play on 4th down. It was one of the worse holds I have ever seen and it resulted in a 1st down on 4th and 7. He is definitely declining, get a 5th and be done with it.... I mentioned this in another thread, but wanted to come back to it. I like JJ, but this was the worst mugging of a receiver I've ever seen. He basically had him wrapped up off the LOS, and wrestled with him for another 10 yards working back across the OL. It was almost like he wanted to get called.
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Post by TheAussieGiant on Oct 12, 2019 6:01:10 GMT -5
Baker does some very impressive things out there when he has a route well diagnosed. From what I can see his zone coverage can be tightened up. He doesn’t seem to squeeze on those zones when he has receivers moving through them.
Maybe it’s some confusion on his part about who he should keying on or maybe I am making assumptions on his responsibilities.
I also only see Jenkins getting traded if the coaching staff loves Ballentine. They don’t seem as enamoured with him as the board is. I thought Ballentine looked amazingly athletic out there and would love to see him get some playing time. But the coaches know how he is doing at training.
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Jaydub
Special Teams
Posts: 595
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Post by Jaydub on Oct 12, 2019 6:45:11 GMT -5
The trade deadline is the end of October. The Giants will not keep Jack Rabbit after this season ends, so it’s time to trade him. This move will hurt the Giants the rest of this season, but will allow the rookies to play, and better set the Giants up for the future, while bringing in a pretty good draft choice (maybe a 3rd round 2020 pick) and creating even more cap space for free agents and re-signing of better young players currently on the roster. This should and will happen....maybe during this 10 day break before the next game. I'm fine with trading him but please don't tell me he played well last night. He was getting torched all night.
The Tampa game was pretty awful too. Mike Evans had his way with him all day. It may be a sign of things to come as age creeps up on him, so a trade would not be unreasonable IMO
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Post by Kase1 on Oct 12, 2019 7:22:42 GMT -5
So we trade Jenkins and THEN who are our starting CBs??
Ballentine who hasnt seen many defensive snaps?? Beal who hasnt seen a field with out getting hurt?? Haley who is a nickel AT BEST??
Im all for trading Ogletree and Bethea, even Solder, but not Jenkins if we dont have a plan in place
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Post by Fletch842 on Oct 12, 2019 7:27:12 GMT -5
I see signs that the defense may be starting to gel. For now, I'd prefer that they give it a few more games, and don't trade anyone, unless they get a tremendous offer. 4th and 5th round picks don't excite me so much.
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Post by TEM on Oct 12, 2019 9:36:56 GMT -5
I see signs that the defense may be starting to gel. For now, I'd prefer that they give it a few more games, and don't trade anyone, unless they get a tremendous offer. 4th and 5th round picks don't excite me so much. So we trade Jenkins and THEN who are our starting CBs?? Ballentine who hasnt seen many defensive snaps?? Beal who hasnt seen a field with out getting hurt?? Haley who is a nickel AT BEST?? Im all for trading Ogletree and Bethea, even Solder, but not Jenkins if we dont have a plan in place Didn't you guys know it is trendy to trade away you Vets for scrap heap draft picks. I do not know what some of these trade away the vets are using as model for precedent. I have never seen a team that wins do that.
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Post by Kruunch on Oct 12, 2019 9:46:03 GMT -5
I see signs that the defense may be starting to gel. For now, I'd prefer that they give it a few more games, and don't trade anyone, unless they get a tremendous offer. 4th and 5th round picks don't excite me so much. So we trade Jenkins and THEN who are our starting CBs?? Ballentine who hasnt seen many defensive snaps?? Beal who hasnt seen a field with out getting hurt?? Haley who is a nickel AT BEST?? Im all for trading Ogletree and Bethea, even Solder, but not Jenkins if we dont have a plan in place Didn't you guys know it is trendy to trade away you Vets for scrap heap draft picks. I do not know what some of these trade away the vets are using as model for precedent. I have never seen a team that wins do that. Not just that go up to all the cornerbacks on this team and ask them what they think of Jenkins on this team. All of them would say the same thing, his leadership and what he has taught them how to play in this league is valuable. He’s forgotten more about this game than all these youngsters can even grasp right now. Having a good player who is a veteran is so important in this league. And yes Jenkins can still play. Every week his assignment is the oppositions best receiver. Not an easy task when the league has handicapped defenses especially the cornerback position. Try covering a world class athlete with your hands tied behind your back... Not an easy task. And if Jenkins was not part of the solution why would he still be here? Clearly Gettleman likes what he brings to the team and Shurmur has been on record of how valuable and great of a player Jenkins is.
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Post by TEM on Oct 12, 2019 9:52:43 GMT -5
Didn't you guys know it is trendy to trade away you Vets for scrap heap draft picks. I do not know what some of these trade away the vets are using as model for precedent. I have never seen a team that wins do that. Not just that go up to all the cornerbacks on this team and ask them what they think of Jenkins on this team. All of them would say the same thing, his leadership and what he has taught them how to play in this league is valuable. He’s forgotten more about this game than all these youngsters can even grasp right now. Having a good player who is a veteran is so important in this league. And yes Jenkins can still play. Every week his assignment is the oppositions best receiver. Not an easy task when the league has handicapped defenses especially the cornerback position. Try covering a world class athlete with your hands tied behind your back... Not an easy task. And if Jenkins was not part of the solution why would he still be here? Clearly Gettleman likes what he brings to the team and Shurmur has been on record of how valuable and great of a player Jenkins is. You can say the same about Ogletree, Bertha and Solder . The get rid of them, do not have any understanding of what you just stated. IMO: Your best post of the year.
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Jaydub
Special Teams
Posts: 595
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Post by Jaydub on Oct 12, 2019 10:01:48 GMT -5
I see signs that the defense may be starting to gel. For now, I'd prefer that they give it a few more games, and don't trade anyone, unless they get a tremendous offer. 4th and 5th round picks don't excite me so much. So we trade Jenkins and THEN who are our starting CBs?? Ballentine who hasnt seen many defensive snaps?? Beal who hasnt seen a field with out getting hurt?? Haley who is a nickel AT BEST?? Im all for trading Ogletree and Bethea, even Solder, but not Jenkins if we dont have a plan in place Didn't you guys know it is trendy to trade away you Vets for scrap heap draft picks. I do not know what some of these trade away the vets are using as model for precedent. I have never seen a team that wins do that. This team isn’t winning, they’re in the process of building for the future. Vet leadership is vital, yes, but if you can get something for a player showing signs of decline, and you’re planning ahead for the next 5 years, you take what you can get.
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Post by TEM on Oct 12, 2019 10:05:17 GMT -5
Didn't you guys know it is trendy to trade away you Vets for scrap heap draft picks. I do not know what some of these trade away the vets are using as model for precedent. I have never seen a team that wins do that. This team isn’t winning, they’re in the process of building for the future. Vet leadership is vital, yes, but if you can get something for a player showing signs of decline, and you’re planning ahead for the next 5 years, you take what you can get. I disagree You do not just trade away your vets away for a 4th or 5th round draft picks as some are suggesting .
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Post by Kruunch on Oct 12, 2019 10:13:22 GMT -5
Didn't you guys know it is trendy to trade away you Vets for scrap heap draft picks. I do not know what some of these trade away the vets are using as model for precedent. I have never seen a team that wins do that. This team isn’t winning, they’re in the process of building for the future. Vet leadership is vital, yes, but if you can get something for a player showing signs of decline, and you’re planning ahead for the next 5 years, you take what you can get. Also to piggyback from what TEM stated. We fans know it’s a lost season, but Shurmur and the rest of the coaching staff do not. Right now they’re 2-4 with 10 more games to go. Why give up a good player for a lottery ticket? They coach to win just as players play to win. Next year is next year, who knows what will happen. No coach in NFL history would want to deplete his team for next season, nothing is promised for the following year.
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Post by bringsimmsback on Oct 12, 2019 10:20:11 GMT -5
This team isn’t winning, they’re in the process of building for the future. Vet leadership is vital, yes, but if you can get something for a player showing signs of decline, and you’re planning ahead for the next 5 years, you take what you can get. I disagree You do not just trade away your vets away for a 4th or 5th round draft picks as some are suggesting . I agree, but a third has me thinking about it. A second isn't crazy either, if a team thinks they are one player away from making a run.
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Post by jb456 on Oct 12, 2019 10:24:09 GMT -5
So we trade Jenkins and THEN who are our starting CBs?? Ballentine who hasnt seen many defensive snaps?? Beal who hasnt seen a field with out getting hurt?? Haley who is a nickel AT BEST?? Im all for trading Ogletree and Bethea, even Solder, but not Jenkins if we dont have a plan in place You want to trade the Giants starting left tackle, accelerate a cap hit of 25 million this year over a 11million dollar corner that probably won't be on the team next year? What's your plan for Daniel Jones CTE?
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Post by TEM on Oct 12, 2019 10:35:37 GMT -5
I disagree You do not just trade away your vets away for a 4th or 5th round draft picks as some are suggesting . I agree, but a third has me thinking about it. A second isn't crazy either, if a team thinks they are one player away from making a run. That is ail fine and dandy when it is the everything is jolly side of the equation. Who is out LT if Solder is traded. Who is the Corner if JJ is traded. Who is our MLB if Tree was traded . Who is FS if Bethea is traded. let alone their Veteran presence alone brings to the team Chad Slade as our LT? Re sign Wheeler? Nate Stupar as our MLB? Sam Chandler or rookie 4th round pick Julian Love FS A 6th round rookie Corey Ballentine ? If there guys were not backups or and are ready . Why aren't they playing? It seems the trade them away group has none of the answers to who is going to take the vacancy that trade will produce.
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Post by TCHOF on Oct 12, 2019 10:42:52 GMT -5
I disagree You do not just trade away your vets away for a 4th or 5th round draft picks as some are suggesting . I agree, but a third has me thinking about it. A second isn't crazy either, if a team thinks they are one player away from making a run. Jenkins doesn’t bring back a second in a million years. The ceiling is probably a 5th.
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Post by Roswell on Oct 12, 2019 11:03:12 GMT -5
This team isn’t winning, they’re in the process of building for the future. Vet leadership is vital, yes, but if you can get something for a player showing signs of decline, and you’re planning ahead for the next 5 years, you take what you can get. I disagree You do not just trade away your vets away for a 4th or 5th round draft picks as some are suggesting . Sometimes you do. If you feel the guy has packed it in or is creating issues. Not sure if JJ fits that description. Don't forget, a pick in the 4th or 5th round isn't just an extra pick in the 4th or 5th round. It could be used as a chip to trade up ahead of a team in an earlier round that you feel might be targeting a player that you rate highly and want on your team.
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Post by Blue Hulk on Oct 12, 2019 11:20:30 GMT -5
It is the sensible thing to do since we won't get a comp pick waiving him in the offseason. He has another year left on his contract btw
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Post by TEM on Oct 12, 2019 11:37:08 GMT -5
I disagree You do not just trade away your vets away for a 4th or 5th round draft picks as some are suggesting . Sometimes you do. If you feel the guy has packed it in or is creating issues. Not sure if JJ fits that description. Don't forget, a pick in the 4th or 5th round isn't just an extra pick in the 4th or 5th round. It could be used as a chip to trade up ahead of a team in an earlier round that you feel might be targeting a player that you rate highly and want on your team.Not a legitimate excuse to trade a player from the GMs prospective . From a fan I get that. From the GMs view. Must have the player to fill the vacant role. I do not see that we do, Trading a player for a potential trade up pick. " what if scenario" A) Team must be willing to allow you to move up B) Must have player targeted to move up for. C) No intelligent GM will make a move on a what if mindset. There must be some tangible reason or value to make the trade. Not one of these above mentioned players fit the value added attitude.
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Post by bringsimmsback on Oct 12, 2019 17:35:32 GMT -5
I agree, but a third has me thinking about it. A second isn't crazy either, if a team thinks they are one player away from making a run. That is ail fine and dandy when it is the everything is jolly side of the equation. Who is out LT if Solder is traded. Who is the Corner if JJ is traded. Who is our MLB if Tree was traded . Who is FS if Bethea is traded. let alone their Veteran presence alone brings to the team Chad Slade as our LT? Re sign Wheeler? Nate Stupar as our MLB? Sam Chandler or rookie 4th round pick Julian Love FS A 6th round rookie Corey Ballentine ? If there guys were not backups or and are ready . Why aren't they playing? It seems the trade them away group has none of the answers to who is going to take the vacancy that trade will produce. Well, a lot of that is for others to answer since I'm only thinking of Jenkins right now. I would never trade Soldier.
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Post by bringsimmsback on Oct 12, 2019 17:38:18 GMT -5
I agree, but a third has me thinking about it. A second isn't crazy either, if a team thinks they are one player away from making a run. Jenkins doesn’t bring back a second in a million years. The ceiling is probably a 5th. I respectfully disagree. If you are correct though, then discussion is closed for me - his value as mentor is worth more than a 5th to me.
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Post by jb456 on Oct 12, 2019 21:20:42 GMT -5
Jenkins doesn’t bring back a second in a million years. The ceiling is probably a 5th. I respectfully disagree. If you are correct though, then discussion is closed for me - his value as mentor is worth more than a 5th to me. Some team would have to be desperate and even then he maxes out as a 4th. No chance in hell would anyone offer a 3rd...
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Post by nygiantfanalways on Oct 14, 2019 14:18:49 GMT -5
The trade deadline is the end of October. The Giants will not keep Jack Rabbit after this season ends, so it’s time to trade him. This move will hurt the Giants the rest of this season, but will allow the rookies to play, and better set the Giants up for the future, while bringing in a pretty good draft choice (maybe a 3rd round 2020 pick) and creating even more cap space for free agents and re-signing of better young players currently on the roster. This should and will happen....maybe during this 10 day break before the next game. Trade our best cover corner because he had a good game. That really doesn't make much since to me. Although the way DG operates it wouldn't surprise me....
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Post by Nullusion on Oct 14, 2019 14:30:13 GMT -5
Not everyone wants our mediocre players with large contracts. I don't think Ogletree or Tate are going anywhere. I'd even be surprised if Jenkins was traded because we don't really have any veterans behind him. Plus he forgets how to tackle every other week.
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