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Post by Martin on Oct 14, 2019 9:23:35 GMT -5
No one is saying this is a great D and no one is praising them. If you listen you will hear people saying this D is improving. It seems you want instant results. That is not how the process works just to inform you. There is a process that will take place and as I watched over 50 years of football it was something I witnessed as a fan. There are some good pieces in place with some encouraging signs and due to years of neglect by our former GM what we see is more exciting than the crap we had. Maybe wishful thinking but that's all we have for the moment. Low expectations? I don't think so. Many here have watched some of the great D's of old. If you want to be the glass is half empty than so be it. Great post I just don't get this narrative always negative. Seems some think this team was a few players away from being a good team, for god sakes they were the worst team in the league # 32. in 2014 when they blew a 20 point lead to the Jags they took the crown as worst and 2016 didn't fix it they were even worse in 2017, this is a long term deal repairing this broken team. Your so right about 2014 through 2018's defense and no doubt repair is the exact word. Please don't get me started about Jerry Reese as I will get very long winded. Dave Gettleman although not perfect is doing a good job. I think next year with a few more pieces the team might move to approx. 9 wins. We have a potentially very good QB with a great RB in Barkely. We have TE's that are solid and don't come out of Stoneybrook U. (does anyone around here remember what kind of TE group we once had ?) The Oline is absolutely better as well as the D line. Depth is better also. Again your right it was a broken team and it takes time to fix it. Enough said!
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Post by dannydimes8 on Oct 14, 2019 9:41:37 GMT -5
Jones has 86 yards and 2 TDs rushing. I noted Murray because he’s on a high rushing pace for a QB. BS, .................you completely ignore his rushing TD's .I just listed his rushing stats. Jones is an athlete who had made some very nice throws downfield. His best intermediate pass was a dime in stride to Engram. However the intermediate part of the field is where QBs earn their living. That’s where the elite QBs operate. So far he’s had a lot of trouble in that section of the field. That’s where his INTs have come. And he just faced 2 tough Ds short handed. That’s why this Arizona game is a big one for him. 20 days prep, at home, bad D, should have as healthy an offense as you can expect around him. And he’s gonna be going toe to toe with a rookie. Big game for the kid, the team, the coach, everyone. They can exit the very bottom tier of teams with a win. 3-4 looks a lot better than 2-5.
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Post by luckydog on Oct 14, 2019 9:55:34 GMT -5
BS, .................you completely ignore his rushing TD's . I just listed his rushing stats. Jones is an athlete who had made some very nice throws downfield. His best intermediate pass was a dime in stride to Engram. However the intermediate part of the field is where QBs earn their living. That’s where the elite QBs operate. So far he’s had a lot of trouble in that section of the field. That’s where his INTs have come. And he just faced 2 tough Ds short handed. That’s why this Arizona game is a big one for him. 20 days prep, at home, bad D, should have as healthy an offense as you can expect around him. And he’s gonna be going toe to toe with a rookie. Big game for the kid, the team, the coach, everyone. They can exit the very bottom tier of teams with a win. 3-4 looks a lot better than 2-5. The amount of focus you put on a handful of games in DJ's first year is absurd. Context is everything. Who were those other teams playing? how were their defenses playing compared to offense? Who was hurt on each side. Comparing a handful of games in his first year against other rookies is meaningless. As much as I'm loath to use him as an example, Aikman went 0-11 his rookie year with 18 picks for 9 TD. I guess he was garbage and should have been thrown out. The more tape Defenses get on DJ, the more they will be able to defend him in the short term as he is young. I want to see Jones progress OVER THE YEAR, not expect a linear progression game by game. I could care less if he is playing another rookie QB this week, they don't play against each other. I want to see DJ flash good throws and get better overall throughout the year. So far the flashing of throws is there, hopefully the overall will come. No one will figure that out in 5 games.
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Post by Roosevelt on Oct 14, 2019 9:59:43 GMT -5
That's correct and exactly what RF used to do when posting on behalf of the Giants, which I don't recall members taking issue with. So we can post everything in an Article but the lass sentence and that's ok? Provided they link to the article yes. If that procedure was fine for the Giants, it’s fine for me too. If there is anyone who feels the differently; they can post the way they see fit. Likewise, if someone prefers to read the majority of the article on the writer’s site, no one is preventing them from doing so.
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Post by Roosevelt on Oct 14, 2019 10:26:42 GMT -5
So we can post everything in an Article but the lass sentence and that's ok? Its really not. The point is you should be encouraging people to use the link to the site where the content originated to read more. If you provide all or most of the article, that wont happen. I might agree with you if we were the old board where the admin was posting countless articles daily, but of course that is not us. This site is focused on us - GIANTS FANS. And while we obviously “promote” the Giants and those who write about them, that is not our purpose. This place is an outlet for us to enjoy and speak about the Giants. Period.
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Post by dannydimes8 on Oct 14, 2019 10:31:09 GMT -5
I just listed his rushing stats. Jones is an athlete who had made some very nice throws downfield. His best intermediate pass was a dime in stride to Engram. However the intermediate part of the field is where QBs earn their living. That’s where the elite QBs operate. So far he’s had a lot of trouble in that section of the field. That’s where his INTs have come. And he just faced 2 tough Ds short handed. That’s why this Arizona game is a big one for him. 20 days prep, at home, bad D, should have as healthy an offense as you can expect around him. And he’s gonna be going toe to toe with a rookie. Big game for the kid, the team, the coach, everyone. They can exit the very bottom tier of teams with a win. 3-4 looks a lot better than 2-5. The amount of focus you put on a handful of games in DJ's first year is absurd. Context is everything. Who were those other teams playing? how were their defenses playing compared to offense? Who was hurt on each side. Comparing a handful of games in his first year against other rookies is meaningless. As much as I'm loath to use him as an example, Aikman went 0-11 his rookie year with 18 picks for 9 TD. I guess he was garbage and should have been thrown out. The more tape Defenses get on DJ, the more they will be able to defend him in the short term as he is young. I want to see Jones progress OVER THE YEAR, not expect a linear progression game by game. I could care less if he is playing another rookie QB this week, they don't play against each other. I want to see DJ flash good throws and get better overall throughout the year. So far the flashing of throws is there, hopefully the overall will come. No one will figure that out in 5 games. You can’t compare kid QBs now to QBs from the Aikman era, the transition has gotten a lot easier for a variety of reasons. The guys I listed above are all inexperienced QBs playing in the here and now. We can’t excuse his INTs simply because he’s young and the above shows why. If Minshew has 2 INTs in more attempts v 6 that isn’t good. 4 games is 4 games, this will be a constant evaluation, but it is an evaluation. Fans always want to dismiss bad and promote good. For good it’s never early. It’s always early for bad.
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Post by Bigjeep on Oct 14, 2019 10:42:35 GMT -5
That's correct and exactly what RF used to do when posting on behalf of the Giants, which I don't recall members taking issue with. So we can post everything in an Article but the lass sentence and that's ok?
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Post by DandyDon on Oct 14, 2019 10:47:58 GMT -5
Its really not. The point is you should be encouraging people to use the link to the site where the content originated to read more. If you provide all or most of the article, that wont happen. I might agree with you if we were the old board where the admin was posting countless articles daily, but of course that is not us. This site is focused on us - GIANTS FANS. And while we obviously “promote” the Giants and those who write about them, that is not our purpose. This place is an outlet for us to enjoy and speak about the Giants. Period. You can run your site anyway you want. I'm just informing all on the proper way to quote other people's work. I'm done, thanks.
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Post by Bigjeep on Oct 14, 2019 10:51:49 GMT -5
So we can post everything in an Article but the lass sentence and that's ok? Provided they link to the article yes. If that procedure was fine for the Giants, it’s fine for me too. If there is anyone who feels the differently; they can post the way they see fit. Likewise, if someone prefers to read the majority of the article on the writer’s site, no one is preventing them from doing so. The partial articles posted on this board promote healthy ( sometimes LOL ) debates on the subject matter (NY Giants) where just links do not. BTY - If the rules change, fine! I'll change too!
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 14, 2019 11:12:18 GMT -5
Great post I just don't get this narrative always negative. Seems some think this team was a few players away from being a good team, for god sakes they were the worst team in the league # 32. in 2014 when they blew a 20 point lead to the Jags they took the crown as worst and 2016 didn't fix it they were even worse in 2017, this is a long term deal repairing this broken team. Your so right about 2014 through 2018's defense and no doubt repair is the exact word. Please don't get me started about Jerry Reese as I will get very long winded. Dave Gettleman although not perfect is doing a good job. I think next year with a few more pieces the team might move to approx. 9 wins. We have a potentially very good QB with a great RB in Barkely. We have TE's that are solid and don't come out of Stoneybrook U. (does anyone around here remember what kind of TE group we once had ?) The Oline is absolutely better as well as the D line. Depth is better also. Again your right it was a broken team and it takes time to fix it. Enough said! LOL I won't get you started I remember the JPP of tight ends and flipping Larry Donnel lol, every team and GM make mistakes it is what they do about them and how fast they react that counts.
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Post by luckydog on Oct 14, 2019 11:53:48 GMT -5
The amount of focus you put on a handful of games in DJ's first year is absurd. Context is everything. Who were those other teams playing? how were their defenses playing compared to offense? Who was hurt on each side. Comparing a handful of games in his first year against other rookies is meaningless. As much as I'm loath to use him as an example, Aikman went 0-11 his rookie year with 18 picks for 9 TD. I guess he was garbage and should have been thrown out. The more tape Defenses get on DJ, the more they will be able to defend him in the short term as he is young. I want to see Jones progress OVER THE YEAR, not expect a linear progression game by game. I could care less if he is playing another rookie QB this week, they don't play against each other. I want to see DJ flash good throws and get better overall throughout the year. So far the flashing of throws is there, hopefully the overall will come. No one will figure that out in 5 games. You can’t compare kid QBs now to QBs from the Aikman era, the transition has gotten a lot easier for a variety of reasons. The guys I listed above are all inexperienced QBs playing in the here and now. We can’t excuse his INTs simply because he’s young and the above shows why. If Minshew has 2 INTs in more attempts v 6 that isn’t good. 4 games is 4 games, this will be a constant evaluation, but it is an evaluation. Fans always want to dismiss bad and promote good. For good it’s never early. It’s always early for bad. Comparing career passing stats over different eras is a bad comparison as the game itself has changed, but showing how QBs start is not. But even if we throw the Aikman argument out (which i dont agree with), you don't address the other points. Rookie QB's walk into all kinds of situations including who they are playing, defense types, supporting casts, injuries...all of which are a part of the game and are different for each QB. A handful of games positive or negative for ANY of these QB's is not indicative of their ability. RG3 is a modern era QB who lit up the league his rookie year and has declined every year since. Even accounting for his injury. My point still stands. A handful of starts is not indicative of a young QB's ability for good or bad. Its the main reason people wanted DJ to start early this year. Seeing him in the last 2-3-4 games would not be enough to know what we have. The good news is we should have a "somewhat" better idea as the kid will get 14 games to start and can use that as a hell of a jumpstart on 2020 which is where I really hope he will shine.
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Post by Roosevelt on Oct 14, 2019 13:47:52 GMT -5
I might agree with you if we were the old board where the admin was posting countless articles daily, but of course that is not us. This site is focused on us - GIANTS FANS. And while we obviously “promote” the Giants and those who write about them, that is not our purpose. This place is an outlet for us to enjoy and speak about the Giants. Period. You can run your site anyway you want. I'm just informing all on the proper way to quote other people's work. I'm done, thanks. Great thanks.
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Post by Roosevelt on Oct 14, 2019 14:04:31 GMT -5
Provided they link to the article yes. If that procedure was fine for the Giants, it’s fine for me too. If there is anyone who feels the differently; they can post the way they see fit. Likewise, if someone prefers to read the majority of the article on the writer’s site, no one is preventing them from doing so. The partial articles posted on this board promote healthy ( sometimes LOL ) debates on the subject matter (NY Giants) where just links do not. I agree, and I offer that newspapers do not provide a place for their viewers to discuss their articles which is what we do. Further, I don’t believe for a second that people don’t visit these other sites because they may read a good portion of an article here. No one has any idea what is left to be read on that site. At the same time, I enjoy that I can read a decent amount of an article here with the annoyance of other sites pop-ups and ads. But if someone likes that, it is certainly their prerogative to click the link immediately to read it elsewhere.
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Post by Parademon1 on Oct 14, 2019 14:06:43 GMT -5
I think it's an insult to Troy Aikman to compare any of todays rookie QBs to him & say they might be better or are better than him. He'd tear up today's NFL if he was playing today. He never threw the ball 40-50x a game in his career like these QBs seem to today on a weekly basis. You can't become the all time #1 RB in yds/attempts/TDs in NFL history if you don't get the rock 30x a game like Emmitt Smith did at the expense of Troy's passing stats. Guess what? Troy didn't give a crap about his stats as long as the team won & until any of today's wonderkids get even 1 SB ring, let alone 3, they should not be mentioned in the same sentence with Aikman.
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Post by dvision on Oct 14, 2019 15:43:16 GMT -5
Minshew was terrible yesterday. Guess he is regressing.... Minshew - 1,442 Yards, 9 TDs, 2 INTs, 97.5 rating
Murray - 1,664 Yards, 7 TDs, 4 INTs 87.6 rating 238 yards rushing 2 TDs
Allen - 901 Yards, 7 TDs, 0 INTs, 106.6 rating
Jones - 821 Yards, 5 TDs, 6 INTs, 74.1 rating
Rudolph - 646 Yards, 7 TDs, 2 INTs 102.5 rating (4th stringer just played with him in concession protocol and beat Chargers)
For perspective Jones is clearly running last statistically here. And the turnovers stand out compared to other guys who are out there learning as well.
Guess what all the other QB's have that Jones hasn't in any of his starts? A stud RB!
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Post by luckydog on Oct 14, 2019 16:02:35 GMT -5
Guess what all the other QB's have that Jones hasn't in any of his starts? A stud RB ...well according to DD8 ,..................... Running Backs don't Matter!Tell that to Elway.....
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Post by Sarcasman on Oct 14, 2019 16:13:09 GMT -5
Minshew was terrible yesterday. Guess he is regressing.... Minshew - 1,442 Yards, 9 TDs, 2 INTs, 97.5 rating
Murray - 1,664 Yards, 7 TDs, 4 INTs 87.6 rating 238 yards rushing 2 TDs
Allen - 901 Yards, 7 TDs, 0 INTs, 106.6 rating
Jones - 821 Yards, 5 TDs, 6 INTs, 74.1 rating
Rudolph - 646 Yards, 7 TDs, 2 INTs 102.5 rating (4th stringer just played with him in concession protocol and beat Chargers)
For perspective Jones is clearly running last statistically here. And the turnovers stand out compared to other guys who are out there learning as well.
Someday some folks will come around to the idea that the team around the QB (or pretty much every other position on the football field) is much more important to the player's stats than vice versa. Or not. The media sells it really hard.
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Post by DandyDon on Oct 14, 2019 17:00:59 GMT -5
Minshew - 1,442 Yards, 9 TDs, 2 INTs, 97.5 rating
Murray - 1,664 Yards, 7 TDs, 4 INTs 87.6 rating 238 yards rushing 2 TDs
Allen - 901 Yards, 7 TDs, 0 INTs, 106.6 rating
Jones - 821 Yards, 5 TDs, 6 INTs, 74.1 rating
Rudolph - 646 Yards, 7 TDs, 2 INTs 102.5 rating (4th stringer just played with him in concession protocol and beat Chargers)
For perspective Jones is clearly running last statistically here. And the turnovers stand out compared to other guys who are out there learning as well.
Someday some folks will come around to the idea that the team around the QB (or pretty much every other position on the football field) is much more important to the player's stats than vice versa. Or not. The media sells it really hard. This is my bet.
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Post by SemperFi on Oct 14, 2019 17:31:05 GMT -5
What in the world are you going to do once we are really, really good...Tear off salamander's legs? The same thing I do as a Yankee fan..... Talk about big games? Have discussions where we analyze this team like a pro team rather than a minor league baseball team? Discuss coaching decisions? Etc. The thing I realize at all times is there are 32 teams. We are not a test tube football team in a lab. We can talk about specific players showing promise, that's fine as long as it is relative to specific players. All teams have some young players showing promise. We are the Scranton Yankees waiting for the NY Yankees to call up a few guys. We need the entire team as a group to be good. And the future does not hold all positives. It's not going to be A, B, C, D going well there will also be A, B, C, D going wrong i.e. losing players, injuries, guys not panning out or falling off. This team is weak at OT, we don't yet know about the QB a lot of young guys are playing well, Kyle Allen is 4-0, some 4th stringer just won for the Steelers, Minshew has put up better stats than Jones, he was a round 6. We need to have gotten that pick right and he's shown ability. We need to start seeing results because other young QBs are showing results. This next stretch is big for him. 10 days to prepare for a bad Arizona D is a spot where you have to expect him to play well. His best performance was in Game 1, each game in terms of stats has been worse since then. It's time to play well and get a W Sunday. Why? Because other kid QBs are doing it, so do it. See, that wasn't hard was it. Sounds good to me.
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Post by Martin on Oct 14, 2019 19:14:18 GMT -5
Your so right about 2014 through 2018's defense and no doubt repair is the exact word. Please don't get me started about Jerry Reese as I will get very long winded. Dave Gettleman although not perfect is doing a good job. I think next year with a few more pieces the team might move to approx. 9 wins. We have a potentially very good QB with a great RB in Barkely. We have TE's that are solid and don't come out of Stoneybrook U. (does anyone around here remember what kind of TE group we once had ?) The Oline is absolutely better as well as the D line. Depth is better also. Again your right it was a broken team and it takes time to fix it. Enough said! LOL I won't get you started I remember the JPP of tight ends and flipping Larry Donnel lol, every team and GM make mistakes it is what they do about them and how fast they react that counts. That's what I like about DG. When he makes a mistake he quickly deals with it not like "you know who" where he left players on the team collect paychecks for years that were horrible. yes LOL Larry Donnel ... I used to think watching him that this guy is destined to break his neck just to avoid being tackled. You can't make this stuff up!
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 14, 2019 20:28:49 GMT -5
LOL I won't get you started I remember the JPP of tight ends and flipping Larry Donnel lol, every team and GM make mistakes it is what they do about them and how fast they react that counts. That's what I like about DG. When he makes a mistake he quickly deals with it not like "you know who" where he left players on the team collect paychecks for years that were horrible. yes LOL Larry Donnel ... I used to think watching him that this guy is destined to break his neck just to avoid being tackled. You can't make this stuff up! All so true I used to say the same exact thing about Donnel he's gonna end up in a wheel chair because he wanted an extra yard. As far as check collectors go we have seen way to many to name in the last 6-7 years.
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Post by boxcarwillie on Oct 14, 2019 23:16:24 GMT -5
Instead of Michael Strahan and Osi Umenyiora, it was Markus Golden and Lorenzo Carter. To make that comparison makes me want to vomit. I've never actually WANTED to vomit. But hey, to each his own.
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