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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 11:17:10 GMT -5
I like Jones, but if the TOP QB in College is there for us, why not draft him! Let them fight it out in camp. Either one will have value in the trade market! Or trade the pick to a team that needs a QB and grab a bunch of defensive players. Wow, just when I proclaimed the OP's post to be the dumbest post ever, an even dumber one comes along.
You want to take another QB in the first round and keep Jones, with all of the holes on this team that we need to fill.
For God's sake, please make this stop.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 11:19:14 GMT -5
And I get warnings and threats for calling an idiot an idiot. Seems to me there should be special exceptions for threads and posters such as these. Idiots can say whatever they want.....including making snide remarks about my health issues....but I'm not allowed to call out their idiocy. Seems fair. Where lies the problem. Instead of seeing the root cause of where some of the problems are. It is not the individual calling a duck a duck. It is allowing an environment where the duck is comfortable in stirring up an response to stir S### up. Seems to me that this board is being overrun with idiocy and the one's trying to keep it in check are being pushed out. If that's what you guys want, then fine. It's your board. I will just be here far less now. I'm sure that dullards will be happy to hear that. They can now say any stupid thing on their minds without fear of being called out for it. Great environment.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 11:21:09 GMT -5
And I get warnings and threats for calling an idiot an idiot. Seems to me there should be special exceptions for threads and posters such as these. Idiots can say whatever they want.....including making snide remarks about my health issues....but I'm not allowed to call out their idiocy. Seems fair. Seems that blame the victim/protect the troll/help the hot take fountain mentality has taken over. The shit that I see allowed to happen on here and the good knowledgeable posters getting warmed is going to drive the good ones away Not claiming to be good or knowledgeable, but I know I will certainly be spending less and less time here because of it.
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 11, 2019 11:21:41 GMT -5
Where lies the problem. Instead of seeing the root cause of where some of the problems are. It is not the individual calling a duck a duck. It is allowing an environment where the duck is comfortable in stirring up an response to stir S### up. Seems to me that this board is being overrun with idiocy and the one's trying to keep it in check are being pushed out. If that's what you guys want, then fine. It's your board. I will just be here far less now. I'm sure that dullards will be happy to hear that. They can now say any stupid thing on their minds without fear of being called out for it. Great environment. The reason I bailed from the main site
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 11:22:13 GMT -5
OMG trade Jones only 7 games into his career? And with 2 games with 4 TDs? 65% completion - almost no weapons and NO running game...and with the mountain of holes on this team...wow thats seriously stupid... Careful, you are in serious danger of a formal finger wagging.
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 11, 2019 11:24:36 GMT -5
Seems that blame the victim/protect the troll/help the hot take fountain mentality has taken over. The shit that I see allowed to happen on here and the good knowledgeable posters getting warmed is going to drive the good ones away Not claiming to be good or knowledgeable, but I know I will certainly be spending less and less time here because of it. I'm going to be spending most of my time in the free agent/draft forum to be honest
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Post by bringsimmsback on Nov 11, 2019 11:27:24 GMT -5
I think we are seeing the results of a trend in society where instant gratification is expected. Have we hit the farthest extreme yet or will we continue along the spectrum? Wanting to pick a QB in the top 10 two years in a row seems pretty far along into the extreme need for immediate results, to me. Any flaws I've seen from Jones, so far, seem to fall in the correctable category so picking a new QB so soon is a waste of resources. To me, the best way to turn the negative of a bad year into a positive is to trade the pick to a QB starving team for a windfall of picks. I keep the pick only for a LT I have graded as a top 10 talent. Even for that, I'm thinking of trading the pick. Do not under any circumstances trade back if Thomas or Young are there. Both are unicorns at high instant impact positions I hear you and respect your opinion (because unlike many, it is an informed opinion) but I think teams are better off, generally, with more picks. Every year, it seems there is a "unicorn" who doesn't do as well as expected and other, generally thought to be good prospects, who end up excelling. Instead of 1 very high pick, give me multiple high picks over a number of years and I will have a team with better over-all talent and an easier to manage CAP. All that said, I have to trust the experts and if they are super confident a prospect will be a "game-changer," they have to take him. My reservations stem from, will that one "game-changer" change the game more than the 3 players I could have gotten instead? Or even more players if I consider the CAP cost of keeping him past his rookie deal? Will those multiple picks over multiple years give me greater flexibility to deal with aging vets or mistakes made elsewhere? Hard to say and that is why I'm slow to criticize the pros.
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Post by TEM on Nov 11, 2019 11:27:56 GMT -5
And I get warnings and threats for calling an idiot an idiot. Seems to me there should be special exceptions for threads and posters such as these. Idiots can say whatever they want.....including making snide remarks about my health issues....but I'm not allowed to call out their idiocy. Seems fair. Seems that blame the victim/protect the troll/help the hot take fountain mentality has taken over. The shit that I see allowed to happen on here and the good knowledgeable posters getting warmed is going to drive the good ones away The hands off moderation only works if all the individuals are here with the intentions of rational discourse . Just a few that are not here for that, If allowed to go unchecked. The trolls will always get their goals obtained.
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Post by TEM on Nov 11, 2019 11:33:20 GMT -5
Where lies the problem. Instead of seeing the root cause of where some of the problems are. It is not the individual calling a duck a duck. It is allowing an environment where the duck is comfortable in stirring up an response to stir S### up. Seems to me that this board is being overrun with idiocy and the one's trying to keep it in check are being pushed out. If that's what you guys want, then fine. It's your board. I will just be here far less now. I'm sure that dullards will be happy to hear that. They can now say any stupid thing on their minds without fear of being called out for it. Great environment. I have already said this past week. I will make my decision to stay or move on at the end of the FF season. I made the obligation when I singed up for the season. As it stands now .it is not looking good for me staying. This site is turning into a troll haven.
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Post by bringsimmsback on Nov 11, 2019 11:42:19 GMT -5
And I get warnings and threats for calling an idiot an idiot. Seems to me there should be special exceptions for threads and posters such as these. Idiots can say whatever they want.....including making snide remarks about my health issues....but I'm not allowed to call out their idiocy. Seems fair. Where lies the problem. Instead of seeing the root cause of where some of the problems are. It is not the individual calling a duck a duck. It is allowing an environment where the duck is comfortable in stirring up an response to stir S### up. I don't know guys, I vacillate a bit on this. There are times in life you have to directly confront stupidity - if not it can fester and cause major problems (see decades of warnings about the health implications of smoking and pollution). But, sometimes, direct confrontation of stupidity just lowers the over-all discourse, making everyone more stupid. Because of my profession, I deal with immature people every day. While they aren't stupid, they often say things that are easy to interpret as stupid and I have learned that directly saying the equivalent of "that is stupid" just stirs up a lot of energy-wasting activity. What has worked better for me has been re-directing statements or questions that sometimes leave the original party behind but improve the group's conversation leading, I believe, to a net gain in wisdom. This, in turn, indirectly helps the original speaker-of-stupid-things because, even if they didn't get it from the conversation just described, the group as a whole will be better able to help them during the next conversation.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 11:43:08 GMT -5
Seems to me that this board is being overrun with idiocy and the one's trying to keep it in check are being pushed out. If that's what you guys want, then fine. It's your board. I will just be here far less now. I'm sure that dullards will be happy to hear that. They can now say any stupid thing on their minds without fear of being called out for it. Great environment. I have already said this past week. I will make my decision to stay or move on at the end of the FF season. I made the obligation when I singed up for the season. As it stands now .it is not looking good for me staying. This site is turning into a troll haven. And they're being protected. Being able to push back against them at least made this place bearable.
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Post by bringsimmsback on Nov 11, 2019 11:44:38 GMT -5
Seems to me that this board is being overrun with idiocy and the one's trying to keep it in check are being pushed out. If that's what you guys want, then fine. It's your board. I will just be here far less now. I'm sure that dullards will be happy to hear that. They can now say any stupid thing on their minds without fear of being called out for it. Great environment. I have already said this past week. I will make my decision to stay or move on at the end of the FF season. I made the obligation when I singed up for the season. As it stands now .it is not looking good for me staying. This site is turning into a troll haven. Well, I hope you stay.
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Post by TEM on Nov 11, 2019 11:48:20 GMT -5
Where lies the problem. Instead of seeing the root cause of where some of the problems are. It is not the individual calling a duck a duck. It is allowing an environment where the duck is comfortable in stirring up an response to stir S### up. I don't know guys, I vacillate a bit on this. There are times in life you have to directly confront stupidity - if not it can fester and cause major problems (see decades of warnings about the health implications of smoking and pollution). But, sometimes, direct confrontation of stupidity just lowers the over-all discourse, making everyone more stupid. Because of my profession, I deal with immature people every day. While they aren't stupid, they often say things that are easy to interpret as stupid and I have learned that directly saying the equivalent of "that is stupid" just stirs up a lot of energy-wasting activity. What has worked better for me has been re-directing statements or questions that sometimes leave the original party behind but improve the group's conversation leading, I believe, to a net gain in wisdom. This, in turn, indirectly helps the original speaker-of-stupid-things because, even if they didn't get it from the conversation just described, the group as a whole will be better able to help them during the next conversation. That is fine if it is stupidity. This is not. It is purposeful in its intended design.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 11:50:00 GMT -5
Where lies the problem. Instead of seeing the root cause of where some of the problems are. It is not the individual calling a duck a duck. It is allowing an environment where the duck is comfortable in stirring up an response to stir S### up. I don't know guys, I vacillate a bit on this. There are times in life you have to directly confront stupidity - if not it can fester and cause major problems (see decades of warnings about the health implications of smoking and pollution). But, sometimes, direct confrontation of stupidity just lowers the over-all discourse, making everyone more stupid. Because of my profession, I deal with immature people every day. While they aren't stupid, they often say things that are easy to interpret as stupid and I have learned that directly saying the equivalent of "that is stupid" just stirs up a lot of energy-wasting activity. What has worked better for me has been re-directing statements or questions that sometimes leave the original party behind but improve the group's conversation leading, I believe, to a net gain in wisdom. This, in turn, indirectly helps the original speaker-of-stupid-things because, even if they didn't get it from the conversation just described, the group as a whole will be better able to help them during the next conversation. That doesn't work here. They are allowed to troll in several different threads, even hijacking threads to crow-bar in their idiotic points of view. Then whine and cry to the mods when they get called out for it. I get that Rosie & company wanted a better atmosphere for this board compared to the TAGF board, but allowing trolls to go unchecked isn't the way. If anything, it's going to make it worse. If they are allowed to post without any fear of being ridiculed then they will be the only ones left here to post.
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Post by Blue Hulk on Nov 11, 2019 11:52:00 GMT -5
**sigh**
Yeah, let's replace the rookie QB that keeps us in games after a rookie year behind a terrible OL.....Yeah, let's draft another QB behind our terrible OL....That'll fix the problem...
Just like drafting a generational talent helps when your OL sucks.....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 11:55:41 GMT -5
**sigh** Yeah, let's replace the rookie QB that keeps us in games after a rookie year behind a terrible OL.....Yeah, let's draft another QB behind our terrible OL....That'll fix the problem... It literally boggles the mind.
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Post by TEM on Nov 11, 2019 11:56:09 GMT -5
I don't know guys, I vacillate a bit on this. There are times in life you have to directly confront stupidity - if not it can fester and cause major problems (see decades of warnings about the health implications of smoking and pollution). But, sometimes, direct confrontation of stupidity just lowers the over-all discourse, making everyone more stupid. Because of my profession, I deal with immature people every day. While they aren't stupid, they often say things that are easy to interpret as stupid and I have learned that directly saying the equivalent of "that is stupid" just stirs up a lot of energy-wasting activity. What has worked better for me has been re-directing statements or questions that sometimes leave the original party behind but improve the group's conversation leading, I believe, to a net gain in wisdom. This, in turn, indirectly helps the original speaker-of-stupid-things because, even if they didn't get it from the conversation just described, the group as a whole will be better able to help them during the next conversation. That doesn't work here. They are allowed to troll in several different threads, even hijacking threads to crow-bar in their idiotic points of view. Then whine and cry to the mods when they get called out for it. I get that Rosie & company wanted a better atmosphere for this board compared to the TAGF board, but allowing trolls to go unchecked isn't the way. If anything, it's going to make it worse. If they are allowed to post without any fear of being ridiculed then they will be the only ones left here to post. When it goes unchecked this what you end up with. Why I want to leave.
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Nov 11, 2019 12:03:23 GMT -5
The only real issue with Jones is ball security and that can be fixed. You think they haven’t been trying to fix this issue all season long? The kid had the same issues in College. This isn’t just some “easy” fix. This is a concern. Our best hope he’s able to slow it down a bit. The turnovers will continue, the hope is it’s not as frequent. I wouldn't be surprised if Shurmur hasn't even thought about it, much less actually done anything about it. ...and Eli was a turnover machine, pretty much his whole career, and ended up with two SB MVP's, so......
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Post by bringsimmsback on Nov 11, 2019 12:05:00 GMT -5
That doesn't work here. They are allowed to troll in several different threads, even hijacking threads to crow-bar in their idiotic points of view. Then whine and cry to the mods when they get called out for it. I get that Rosie & company wanted a better atmosphere for this board compared to the TAGF board, but allowing trolls to go unchecked isn't the way. If anything, it's going to make it worse. If they are allowed to post without any fear of being ridiculed then they will be the only ones left here to post. When it goes unchecked this what you end up with. Why I want to leave. I'm not advocating letting it go unchecked. I'm suggesting there may be better ways to check it then wasting (in my opinion) time telling the stupid they are stupid. Trolls love to hi-jack boards and threads but they aren't immune to being hi-jacked and then ignored themselves. My only concern that I haven't figured out how to deal with is that sometimes it is hard to find good threads because there have been too many "stupid" threads started.
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Post by bringsimmsback on Nov 11, 2019 12:09:45 GMT -5
I don't know guys, I vacillate a bit on this. There are times in life you have to directly confront stupidity - if not it can fester and cause major problems (see decades of warnings about the health implications of smoking and pollution). But, sometimes, direct confrontation of stupidity just lowers the over-all discourse, making everyone more stupid. Because of my profession, I deal with immature people every day. While they aren't stupid, they often say things that are easy to interpret as stupid and I have learned that directly saying the equivalent of "that is stupid" just stirs up a lot of energy-wasting activity. What has worked better for me has been re-directing statements or questions that sometimes leave the original party behind but improve the group's conversation leading, I believe, to a net gain in wisdom. This, in turn, indirectly helps the original speaker-of-stupid-things because, even if they didn't get it from the conversation just described, the group as a whole will be better able to help them during the next conversation. That doesn't work here. They are allowed to troll in several different threads, even hijacking threads to crow-bar in their idiotic points of view. Then whine and cry to the mods when they get called out for it. I get that Rosie & company wanted a better atmosphere for this board compared to the TAGF board, but allowing trolls to go unchecked isn't the way. If anything, it's going to make it worse. If they are allowed to post without any fear of being ridiculed then they will be the only ones left here to post. What if every response was either a purposeful non-response or a thought-provoking question that other posters then answer while ignoring the original giver of stupidity? While I truly hate the like/dislike mentality of our social media addled society, maybe adding a dislike feature would make it easier for certain posts to be ignored?
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Post by bringsimmsback on Nov 11, 2019 12:14:36 GMT -5
You think they haven’t been trying to fix this issue all season long? The kid had the same issues in College. This isn’t just some “easy” fix. This is a concern. Our best hope he’s able to slow it down a bit. The turnovers will continue, the hope is it’s not as frequent. I wouldn't be surprised if Shurmur hasn't even thought about it, much less actually done anything about it. ...and Eli was a turnover machine, pretty much his whole career, and ended up with two SB MVP's, so...... I don't recall a single commentator talking about fumbling prior to or after the draft. He fumbled 19 times over three seasons behind a horrible line - not good but is it running around with your hair on fire bad? I don't think it is unreasonable to see how this plays out over a few seasons before making a decision.
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Post by Kruunch on Nov 11, 2019 12:15:53 GMT -5
You think they haven’t been trying to fix this issue all season long? The kid had the same issues in College. This isn’t just some “easy” fix. This is a concern. Our best hope he’s able to slow it down a bit. The turnovers will continue, the hope is it’s not as frequent. I wouldn't be surprised if Shurmur hasn't even thought about it, much less actually done anything about it. ...and Eli was a turnover machine, pretty much his whole career, and ended up with two SB MVP's, so...... Shurmur is a terrible head coach but he's not an idiot. His young QB gives the ball away like it's going out of style, he has to be addressing that issue more so than not. If he isn't he should be fired on the basis of being a imbecile.
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Post by trueblueatnyc on Nov 11, 2019 12:18:05 GMT -5
The only way that happens is if Gettleman is somehow fired after this season, which I doubt happens.
However, while the OP is getting bashed, the logic is sound.
If you are the GM and Coaching group and you realize that Jones is not "the guy", better to admit you were wrong and try to get the right QB than to push forward with a QB that you know doesn't have the goods. I think ARZ certainly made that clear with their handling of Rosen. Yes, it's not the most efficient way to build a team. Yes, it does make that pick of Jones the laughing stock people said it was. But, all that matters in the end is getting the right QB in there.
Now, I disagree with the OPs assessment of Jones. Lots of rookie QBs have turnover problems. Many of them dont come with that same rookie also making some big plays as well. Jones has shown enough so far for the team to continue with him.
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Post by Blue Hulk on Nov 11, 2019 12:35:50 GMT -5
That strategy worked great for the Cardinals..
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 11, 2019 13:17:17 GMT -5
That strategy worked great for the Cardinals.. Jones >Rosen The only reason it worked (so far) It's a horrible buisness model
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Post by Roswell on Nov 11, 2019 13:42:09 GMT -5
This year was all about clearing out the knuckleheads and landing the QB. It's year 2.
It's not pretty and there's still big holes but Jones will learn and this guy Slayton is helping to wash away Beckham's issues.
The biggest issue is a coaching staff that's drowning every game.
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Post by DrRumack on Nov 11, 2019 13:55:01 GMT -5
Lots of bold assumptions and guesses in that post b The only assumption is the trade. And that Gettleman will be fired.
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Post by krappdetector on Nov 11, 2019 14:00:26 GMT -5
You need to be a bit more forceful with your posts, no need to hold back with your opinions ... lolI wonder how some of these people are able to get through life with the thought processes that they display here. My guess is that some of these people are posting from mental institutions. My god, you're right. It hadn't occurred to me but it's entirely true, and pretty likely, when people can post from anywhere !
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Post by DrRumack on Nov 11, 2019 14:10:07 GMT -5
Where lies the problem. Instead of seeing the root cause of where some of the problems are. It is not the individual calling a duck a duck. It is allowing an environment where the duck is comfortable in stirring up an response to stir S### up. Seems to me that this board is being overrun with idiocy and the one's trying to keep it in check are being pushed out. If that's what you guys want, then fine. It's your board. I will just be here far less now. I'm sure that dullards will be happy to hear that. They can now say any stupid thing on their minds without fear of being called out for it. Great environment. I mostly lurk Giants forums. Rarely post. The Giants are really bad now (and the past couple of years). Seems like negativity is affecting everyone. From what they say to how they read/hear it. Human emotions, I guess. There’s another board (name is escaping me right now) but it is worse than this one. If a member is critical of the team (any component) there are about a dozen or so regular members who will chastise said member. Even the moderators are intolerant and are suspending or banning members perceived to be “negative.” So that Board is filled with, in my opinion, fantasy optimism and lots of kool aid being passed around. Far worse things being said than here, if you could imagine.
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soflo
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Post by soflo on Nov 11, 2019 14:16:32 GMT -5
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