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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2019 18:57:29 GMT -5
They continued to try and build the team around Eli for far too long. They even promoted McAdoo for the sake of continuity. It's been about what's in the best interest of Eli for years. They just thought it was better for him to get more weapons rather than olineman.
Exactly. So they failed to give their franchise QB the support he needed and like Sarcasman said, instead they kept hoping Eli would continue to pull playoff victories out of his ass.
John Mara in no way created a well-oiled machine. He kept adding parts, as parts kept falling off.
I'm not saying it was a successful endeavor. I'm saying that it was the mindset behind sll the decision making over the last several years. What can they do to help Eli improve. They bought him weapons but ignored the line. For continuity, they will keep Shurmur on through the 2020 season. I'm not saying its the right way either....but it's the Giants way
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Post by Morehead State on Nov 13, 2019 18:58:56 GMT -5
Basically...everyone in the NFL runs some version of the WCO. Not nessisarily true Oh you dear boy. Let me give you a hug......
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Post by nick030567 on Nov 13, 2019 19:11:06 GMT -5
In terms of a veteran coach with winning experience is there a bigger name out there than McCarthy? I said it before I would look at Chuck Pagano. DC Bears. I think that's a solid idea.
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Post by nick030567 on Nov 13, 2019 19:12:29 GMT -5
They continued to try and build the team around Eli for far too long. They even promoted McAdoo for the sake of continuity. It's been about what's in the best interest of Eli for years. They just thought it was better for him to get more weapons rather than olineman.
Exactly. So they failed to give their franchise QB the support he needed and like Sarcasman said, instead they kept hoping Eli would continue to pull playoff victories out of his ass.
John Mara in no way created a well-oiled machine. He kept adding parts, as parts kept falling off.
Yeah it's ridiculous to expect 2011 every season as the talent around him diminished year after year, especially as an immobile QB. Same with Jones, people can't expect that Tampa Bay victory every week, it's unrealistic and unfair.
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Post by Sarcasman on Nov 13, 2019 21:33:53 GMT -5
They continued to try and build the team around Eli for far too long. They even promoted McAdoo for the sake of continuity. It's been about what's in the best interest of Eli for years. They just thought it was better for him to get more weapons rather than olineman.
Exactly. So they failed to give their franchise QB the support he needed and like Sarcasman said, instead they kept hoping Eli would continue to pull playoff victories out of his ass.
John Mara in no way created a well-oiled machine. He kept adding parts, as parts kept falling off.
And that is not imply in any way that Manning did that by himself. He clearly did not. Those teams all coalesced at the right time. The defense played great, the OL pulled together, so many things had to go right and they did. In my opinion believing that was a formula for sustained success was irresponsible.
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Post by Roosevelt on Nov 13, 2019 21:40:34 GMT -5
Exactly. So they failed to give their franchise QB the support he needed and like Sarcasman said, instead they kept hoping Eli would continue to pull playoff victories out of his ass.
John Mara in no way created a well-oiled machine. He kept adding parts, as parts kept falling off.
And that is not imply in any way that Manning did that by himself. He clearly did not. Those teams all coalesced at the right time. The defense played great, the OL pulled together, so many things had to go right and they did. In my opinion believing that was a formula for sustained success was irresponsible.
Exactly.
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 13, 2019 21:45:14 GMT -5
Exactly. So they failed to give their franchise QB the support he needed and like Sarcasman said, instead they kept hoping Eli would continue to pull playoff victories out of his ass.
John Mara in no way created a well-oiled machine. He kept adding parts, as parts kept falling off.
And that is not imply in any way that Manning did that by himself. He clearly did not. Those teams all coalesced at the right time. The defense played great, the OL pulled together, so many things had to go right and they did. In my opinion believing that was a formula for sustained success was irresponsible. See my point for the team being kinda never complete because of having to make up for bad drafts and then having to band aid via FA to cover mistakes since 2000 At the very least this cycle of operation is over with this entire franchise reset. Now In theory The young talent all improves and grows by 2021 and any free agents we bring in are high end win now team finishing moves in their prime and for a 5 year window the team dominates,while smart drafting is starting to build depth to replace aging parts and plug some holes caused by free agency or players starting to get old.
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Post by spaceweather on Nov 13, 2019 21:50:14 GMT -5
Greg Roman, please.
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Post by Roosevelt on Nov 13, 2019 21:51:35 GMT -5
And that is not imply in any way that Manning did that by himself. He clearly did not. Those teams all coalesced at the right time. The defense played great, the OL pulled together, so many things had to go right and they did. In my opinion believing that was a formula for sustained success was irresponsible. See my point for the team being kinda never complete because of having to make up for bad drafts and then having to band aid via FA to cover mistakes since 2000 At the very least this cycle of operation is over with this entire franchise reset. Now In theory The young talent all improves and grows by 2021 and any free agents we bring in are high end win now team finishing moves in their prime and for a 5 year window the team dominates,while smart drafting is starting to build depth to replace aging parts and plug some holes caused by free agency or players starting to get old.
Um...I'm expecting a Patriot-type domination. I don't want no 5 year window!
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 13, 2019 21:55:31 GMT -5
See my point for the team being kinda never complete because of having to make up for bad drafts and then having to band aid via FA to cover mistakes since 2000 At the very least this cycle of operation is over with this entire franchise reset. Now In theory The young talent all improves and grows by 2021 and any free agents we bring in are high end win now team finishing moves in their prime and for a 5 year window the team dominates,while smart drafting is starting to build depth to replace aging parts and plug some holes caused by free agency or players starting to get old.
Um...I'm expecting a Patriot-type domination. I don't want no 5 year window! . Then Jones better be Brady 2.0 and someone better be Bellicheck 2.0.
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 13, 2019 21:55:54 GMT -5
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Post by Roosevelt on Nov 13, 2019 22:00:10 GMT -5
Um...I'm expecting a Patriot-type domination. I don't want no 5 year window! . Then Jones better be Brady 2.0 and someone better be Bellicheck 2.0.
So realistically we're looking at maybe 2 years!
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 13, 2019 22:04:54 GMT -5
. Then Jones better be Brady 2.0 and someone better be Bellicheck 2.0.
So realistically we're looking at maybe 2 years!
Most mortal teams this day in the salary cap era get a 5 to 7 year window See Seahawks Then like the Seahawks who have an established elite qb(which Wilson is)they can start a 2nd window because in theory they used all their future cap space when the players were on rookie deals wisely by front loading and much bonus money as possible early,leaving little dead money prorated,then they start the 2nd cycle (like Seattle is now)with a fully mature top end elite qb with little drop off. Of course you have to hit on 50% of your draft picks to maintain
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Post by Kruunch on Nov 13, 2019 22:08:30 GMT -5
See my point for the team being kinda never complete because of having to make up for bad drafts and then having to band aid via FA to cover mistakes since 2000 At the very least this cycle of operation is over with this entire franchise reset. Now In theory The young talent all improves and grows by 2021 and any free agents we bring in are high end win now team finishing moves in their prime and for a 5 year window the team dominates,while smart drafting is starting to build depth to replace aging parts and plug some holes caused by free agency or players starting to get old.
Um...I'm expecting a Patriot-type domination. I don't want no 5 year window! Knowing our luck we'll win our 6th super bowl and right after the parade John Mara moves the team to jolly old England. Reason for the move? John with out hesitation "dad would of wanted it this way." John Mara has the pulse of a dead man when it comes to reading his fan base.
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Post by giants38 on Nov 13, 2019 23:07:53 GMT -5
**** continuity. Go get the best coach. I concur. Jones is only one year into this system so making a change at this stage would be fine. Mara IMO must think long and hard about this coach. Is this guy the right head coach for this franchise. Can he lead us where we need to go? Or are we just going to waste another couple years and then move on? It seems like this coach makes fundamental mistakes in every game now. I've given him the benefit of the doubt since day one, but I can no longer support what I am seeing.
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Post by Jomo on Nov 13, 2019 23:36:45 GMT -5
Then it had better be Jay Gruden then becsuse he runs the same system which means continuity,which is the best thing for a young qb And he really wanted the Skins to get Jones **** continuity. Go get the best coach. Continuity is overrated.
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Post by Sarcasman on Nov 14, 2019 0:52:56 GMT -5
So realistically we're looking at maybe 2 years!
Most mortal teams this day in the salary cap era get a 5 to 7 year window See Seahawks Then like the Seahawks who have an established elite qb(which Wilson is)they can start a 2nd window because in theory they used all their future cap space when the players were on rookie deals wisely by front loading and much bonus money as possible early,leaving little dead money prorated,then they start the 2nd cycle (like Seattle is now)with a fully mature top end elite qb with little drop off. Of course you have to hit on 50% of your draft picks to maintain Wilson is such a great player. I love watching him. That 49er game the other night was a clinic in how to play behind no OL. Amazing.
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Post by jimmieray on Nov 14, 2019 6:30:30 GMT -5
Since we are wishing instead of predicting, I would give Magilla's left nut if they would back up the Brinks truck and bring Pete Carroll here. Always loved that guy. Sean Payton as well. This is something I still can't grasp about acquiring top coaching. I understand even the best HCs make about the same as an average WR, and the most successful one doesn't have the highest salary. Considering their contract doesn't even count against the team salary cap, and the owners are all billionaires who are not running teams to necessarily make more money as their priority - why isn't considerably more money being thrown at the best coaches to lure them? Is it just a matter of what level of control the HC is permitted?
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Post by TEM on Nov 14, 2019 6:41:59 GMT -5
Carrol was 7 and 9 in his 1st 2 seasons in Seattle
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Post by Fletch842 on Nov 14, 2019 7:16:17 GMT -5
I'm a little late to this party, but my 2 cents: Hypothetically if we dump Shurmur this year and went after a college coach, the 3 that I would be in favor of (in order of preference) are Shaw, Sweeney, and Riley (Riley may be the only one that we could pry from the college ranks realistically though). I would prefer that we don't hire a retread head coach at this point, and am not very familiar with the up and coming assistants on other NFL teams, so won't comment on them.
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Post by Morehead State on Nov 14, 2019 10:12:57 GMT -5
Carrol was 7 and 9 in his 1st 2 seasons in Seattle Right now?......7-9 sounds like heaven.
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Post by jmike on Nov 14, 2019 10:19:57 GMT -5
LOL
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Post by Morehead State on Nov 14, 2019 11:38:01 GMT -5
Right now?......7-9 sounds like heaven. But in previous post you called that losing and unacceptable why is it ok now? I guess losing slightly less is better Red.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 12:05:28 GMT -5
But in previous post you called that losing and unacceptable why is it ok now? I guess losing slightly less is better Red. It's better for bragging rights (if that is even possible with a losing record), but we are still losing and giving up valuable draft positions.
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Post by scoostraw on Nov 14, 2019 12:07:31 GMT -5
**** continuity. Go get the best coach. Continuity is overrated. "Continuity" is why McAdoo was promoted to HC.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 12:08:17 GMT -5
"Continuity" is why McAdoo was promoted to HC. yep
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Post by jaymas on Nov 14, 2019 13:10:07 GMT -5
Could you tell us who he is first? Seems like a fair question....
44 years old. Grew up in NYC Walk-on LB at Penn State under Paterno Asst OL coach under TC (when the OL was good and when Gettleman was here) - so there is a Giants connection (which we know the Giants love) HC at Temple - took a crappy program and led them to two straight 10 win seasons (first time ever in school history) HC at Baylor - has turned around a program that was even more of a mess than the Giants (hard to believe). Team is currently undefeated.
It seems like most NFL teams miss on HC's by taking a non-HC and hoping that he can be a HC. As it turns out, a lot of these guys are just not the CEO types that you need to run an entire organization (see, Pat Shurmur). Rhule is the CEO type and has actually turned around two down-trodden teams (albeit on the college level).
Rhule interests me.
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Post by jmike on Nov 14, 2019 13:12:18 GMT -5
"Continuity" is why McAdoo was promoted to HC. What I don't quite grasp is: If you are firing your head coach it would mean things are not going well. Why would you want continuity in this situation?
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Post by jaymas on Nov 14, 2019 13:13:15 GMT -5
That's all well and good. Fan's can scream whatever they want, but just ask yourselves "What do the Giants brass favor when it comes to replacing coaches?" It's the same reason they drafted Eli 2.0. Continuity.
That makes absolutely no sense. I'm not saying you're wrong, but how could John Mara believe the Giants did a great job handling the Eli Manning era? Yes they had themselves a top 10 QB for many years who elevated his game in 2011 to become a top 5 QB, and helped them miraculously win a couple Super Bowls. But those teams were 10 and 9 win regular season teams. The Giants never established themselves as a truly solid franchise for any extended period of time, nor was Eli able to maintain that top 5 position at QB other than that 1 season.
With every contract Eli signed there were questions surrounding his game, and while that never stopped the Giants from signing him, those questions remained right up until this season.
The only continuity I see from John Mara's Giants, is a franchise which scrambles every year to try and get things fixed.
Perfectly stated.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 13:18:18 GMT -5
"Continuity" is why McAdoo was promoted to HC. What I don't quite grasp is: If you are firing your head coach it would mean things are not going well. Why would you want continuity in this situation? I disagree. Firing your HC because you are in the first year of a rebuild and things aren't going well is a knee jerk over reaction. This is only going to happen in the impatient fan base's head. Shurmur will get at least another year. If it hasn't gotten any better (or gets worse) by the end of that season, then they will fire him. On the question of continuity while things are not going well, all one has to do is look at all the decisions made for the sake of continuity over the last 8 years. Not saying it;s the right way.......but it is the Giants way.
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