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Post by jmike on Nov 18, 2019 16:11:40 GMT -5
No there were rumors swirling that Denver wanted to trade up. Now the fact that someone is saying that they were willing to give up 2 firsts and a second is inaccurate. I've had many issues with Gettleman, but I never once questioned his ability to move around the draft board. I have no doubt that if they actually offered that, that DG would've done the deal. A lot of you guys seem to forget, but there was one team that offered him something (which I think may have been Denver) and it was an insulting offer so this is how he responded to them when he was asked by reporters. Ben Albright is a legit NFL source. Doesn't make stuff up like many of these guys .... I'm not doubting Albright reporting what he believes to be accurate information. The question is if the person is diliberately giving him bad info. Maybe, maybe not, who knows. It didn't happen, could have been possible, could have not been possible; and they might have made the deal, drafted a couple of bust players and been abused here for not taking Barkley when they could have. Nobody knows what the future may bring, maybe Barkley becomes the best RB of all time and is the reason this team wins 4 SBs, maybe not. LT was just a LBer and at the time RB was a more premier (important) position. So the Saints took Rogers. If someone offered the Giants a great deal for that #2 pick, would it really much matter to the fan base when all is said and done how good the offer was if LT was reeking havoc for the Cardinals instead? Gettleman is in year 2. Some of his decisions have turned out well, and some not so much. The success rate there doesn't matter, it only matters if he can make this team a winning franchise again. Right now, Barkley is part of that hope. For all our sakes, lets hope he made the right call.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 18, 2019 16:40:39 GMT -5
Are you guys not believing Denver wanted to jump the Jets to draft Darnold? Or just the value they were willing to give up? I'm simply challenging the word fact. Like I said, everything else is just real housewives shit. Well, its true its not a fact until its is. Like Peyton Manning isnt a HOF QB.... until he is. IT is my opinion the reasonable offer DG received was from the Broncos and Elway for Darnold, and he didnt even want to think about losing out of Barkley no matter if we could have absolutely robbed them. Guess we will never know with 100% certainty though.
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Post by Sarcasman on Nov 18, 2019 17:12:55 GMT -5
I'm simply challenging the word fact. Like I said, everything else is just real housewives shit. Well, its true its not a fact until its is. Like Peyton Manning isnt a HOF QB.... until he is. IT is my opinion the reasonable offer DG received was from the Broncos and Elway for Darnold, and he didnt even want to think about losing out of Barkley no matter if we could have absolutely robbed them. Guess we will never know with 100% certainty though. I agree. I think its possible that it went down that way. My view on that is that the offer from Denver was probably half decent but not great. That would certainly foot to this brand new little known fact(sic) all of a sudden coming to light from Denver's media guy. If it actually is a fact, Ben can prove it easily. I sincerely doubt that he ever will. Which makes this is all just the usual media bullshit.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 18, 2019 17:15:16 GMT -5
Well, its true its not a fact until its is. Like Peyton Manning isnt a HOF QB.... until he is. IT is my opinion the reasonable offer DG received was from the Broncos and Elway for Darnold, and he didnt even want to think about losing out of Barkley no matter if we could have absolutely robbed them. Guess we will never know with 100% certainty though. I agree. I think its possible that it went down that way. My view on that is that the offer from Denver was probably half decent but not great. That would certainly foot to this brand new little known fact(sic) all of a sudden coming to light from Denver's media guy. If it actually is a fact, Ben can prove it easily. I sincerely doubt that he ever will. Which makes this is all just the usual media bullshit. Just curious, if it really did happen, how can he prove it outside of saying he was told it was truth which no one here would ever believe? Drafts are always like this. So much rumor and distorted truths. Sometimes it is real though. I always wish GMs had to present a draft list after the draft that they followed to the media, including any attempted trades. Would make for great TV. I know I would watch.
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Post by Sarcasman on Nov 18, 2019 17:19:46 GMT -5
I agree. I think its possible that it went down that way. My view on that is that the offer from Denver was probably half decent but not great. That would certainly foot to this brand new little known fact(sic) all of a sudden coming to light from Denver's media guy. If it actually is a fact, Ben can prove it easily. I sincerely doubt that he ever will. Which makes this is all just the usual media bullshit. Just curious, if it really did happen, how can he prove it outside of saying he was told it was truth which no one here would ever believe? Drafts are always like this. So much rumor and distorted truths. Sometimes it is real though. I always wish GMs had to present a draft list after the draft that they followed to the media, including any attempted trades. Would make for great TV. I know I would watch. I don't know, that's on him. If I state something is a fact, I fully expect to have to back it up if I'm called on it. If I can't then I was full of shit and it wasn't/isnt a fact. Someone repeating what someone else said isn't a fact. It's hearsay.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 18, 2019 17:22:07 GMT -5
Just curious, if it really did happen, how can he prove it outside of saying he was told it was truth which no one here would ever believe? Drafts are always like this. So much rumor and distorted truths. Sometimes it is real though. I always wish GMs had to present a draft list after the draft that they followed to the media, including any attempted trades. Would make for great TV. I know I would watch. I don't know, that's on him. If I state something is a fact, I fully expect to have to back it up if I'm called on it. If I can't then I was full of shit and it wasn't/isnt a fact. Someone repeating what someone else said isn't a fact. It's hearsay. I agree, I was just pointing out the obvious, that it cant really be proven without taking someones word.
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Post by Morehead State on Nov 18, 2019 17:24:23 GMT -5
I don't know, that's on him. If I state something is a fact, I fully expect to have to back it up if I'm called on it. If I can't then I was full of shit and it wasn't/isnt a fact. Someone repeating what someone else said isn't a fact. It's hearsay. I agree, I was just pointing out the obvious, that it cant really be proven without taking someones word. One thing we DO know....and that's the fact that Dave refused to take calls once he was on the clock for the 2nd pick. We know this because he said so himself.
I consider that GM malpractice....but that's me.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 18, 2019 17:29:48 GMT -5
I agree, I was just pointing out the obvious, that it cant really be proven without taking someones word. One thing we DO know....and that's the fact that Dave refused to take calls once he was on the clock for the 2nd pick. We know this because he said so himself.
I consider that GM malpractice....but that's me.
100% agreed. I mean, what if the actual hand of God was holding the phone on the other side trying to call him? Does that not trump a player touched by the hand of God?
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Post by Morehead State on Nov 18, 2019 17:32:08 GMT -5
One thing we DO know....and that's the fact that Dave refused to take calls once he was on the clock for the 2nd pick. We know this because he said so himself.
I consider that GM malpractice....but that's me.
100% agreed. I mean, what if the actual hand of God was holding the phone on the other side trying to call him? Does that not trump a player touched by the hand of God? You just blew my mind.
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Post by Sarcasman on Nov 18, 2019 17:42:55 GMT -5
I don't know, that's on him. If I state something is a fact, I fully expect to have to back it up if I'm called on it. If I can't then I was full of shit and it wasn't/isnt a fact. Someone repeating what someone else said isn't a fact. It's hearsay. I agree, I was just pointing out the obvious, that it cant really be proven without taking someones word. I agree. From an informational standpoint it was a very poor choice of words. That said, I'm sure it was intentional as he knew it wasn't a fact, knew he would never get called out on it and knew that a negative can't be proven.
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Post by Sarcasman on Nov 18, 2019 17:44:02 GMT -5
One thing we DO know....and that's the fact that Dave refused to take calls once he was on the clock for the 2nd pick. We know this because he said so himself.
I consider that GM malpractice....but that's me.
100% agreed. I mean, what if the actual hand of God was holding the phone on the other side trying to call him? Does that not trump a player touched by the hand of God? If God called, he really should have answered it.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 18, 2019 17:58:03 GMT -5
100% agreed. I mean, what if the actual hand of God was holding the phone on the other side trying to call him? Does that not trump a player touched by the hand of God? If God called, he really should have answered it. Ha! Wait a second... Thats messed up. I think God did try calling him at one point but he sent it to voicemail.
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Post by jmike on Nov 19, 2019 9:01:00 GMT -5
I agree, I was just pointing out the obvious, that it cant really be proven without taking someones word. One thing we DO know....and that's the fact that Dave refused to take calls once he was on the clock for the 2nd pick. We know this because he said so himself.
I consider that GM malpractice....but that's me.
See, this I find funny. You and others often complain that DG is a liar and can't tell the truth. Yet here you are claiming something he said is a fact. I don't think there are words to describe the lunacy of that disconnected thought process.
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nyg2
Starter
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Post by nyg2 on Nov 19, 2019 9:20:52 GMT -5
And he also said there was one significant deal offered, but he couldn't give up Barkley. That could have been Denver for all we know too. “We had such a strong conviction on Saquon. I was talking to people. Not a lot, but we all had such a conviction on this kid. At the end of the day, very frankly, today, Baker Mayfield goes. The only reason that pick wasn’t in at 9:58 was because we had to wait till the five-minute mark,” he said Thursday night. www.bigblueview.com/2018/4/30/17304910/ny-giants-2018-nfl-draft-dave-gettleman-saquon-barkley-no-2-pick-trade-offerHe didnt even want to work the phones to see how great a deal he could get. Fair enough, you think Denver was the one who made the reasonable offer. I think it was Buffalo, because they were the only team that year in need of a QB, and had 2 1st rounders. I just don't see how DG passes up the #5 overall pick and next years first round pick from Denver with the strong possibility that Saquon could've been there at 5 if he had traded down.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 19, 2019 9:22:59 GMT -5
One thing we DO know....and that's the fact that Dave refused to take calls once he was on the clock for the 2nd pick. We know this because he said so himself.
I consider that GM malpractice....but that's me.
See, this I find funny. You and others often complain that DG is a liar and can't tell the truth. Yet here you are claiming something he said is a fact. I don't think there are words to describe the lunacy of that disconnected thought process. What would be his motive for lying about that though?
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 19, 2019 9:25:17 GMT -5
And he also said there was one significant deal offered, but he couldn't give up Barkley. That could have been Denver for all we know too. “We had such a strong conviction on Saquon. I was talking to people. Not a lot, but we all had such a conviction on this kid. At the end of the day, very frankly, today, Baker Mayfield goes. The only reason that pick wasn’t in at 9:58 was because we had to wait till the five-minute mark,” he said Thursday night. www.bigblueview.com/2018/4/30/17304910/ny-giants-2018-nfl-draft-dave-gettleman-saquon-barkley-no-2-pick-trade-offerHe didnt even want to work the phones to see how great a deal he could get. Fair enough, you think Denver was the one who made the reasonable offer. I think it was Buffalo, because they were the only team that year in need of a QB, and had 2 1st rounders. I just don't see how DG passes up the #5 overall pick and next years first round pick from Denver with the strong possibility that Saquon could've been there at 5 if he had traded down. I dont think SQB was making it past Cleveland at 4. And as we saw again in this past draft, if DG likes someone, he wont play the waiting game.
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 19, 2019 11:18:07 GMT -5
And he also said there was one significant deal offered, but he couldn't give up Barkley. That could have been Denver for all we know too. “We had such a strong conviction on Saquon. I was talking to people. Not a lot, but we all had such a conviction on this kid. At the end of the day, very frankly, today, Baker Mayfield goes. The only reason that pick wasn’t in at 9:58 was because we had to wait till the five-minute mark,” he said Thursday night. www.bigblueview.com/2018/4/30/17304910/ny-giants-2018-nfl-draft-dave-gettleman-saquon-barkley-no-2-pick-trade-offerHe didnt even want to work the phones to see how great a deal he could get. Fair enough, you think Denver was the one who made the reasonable offer. I think it was Buffalo, because they were the only team that year in need of a QB, and had 2 1st rounders. I just don't see how DG passes up the #5 overall pick and next years first round pick from Denver with the strong possibility that Saquon could've been there at 5 if he had traded down. Same And I think Cleveland had Ward in their sights the entire time to be honest
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Post by Morehead State on Nov 19, 2019 11:29:29 GMT -5
One thing we DO know....and that's the fact that Dave refused to take calls once he was on the clock for the 2nd pick. We know this because he said so himself.
I consider that GM malpractice....but that's me.
See, this I find funny. You and others often complain that DG is a liar and can't tell the truth. Yet here you are claiming something he said is a fact. I don't think there are words to describe the lunacy of that disconnected thought process. When he admits something that is uncomplimentary? Yes of course.
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Post by jmike on Nov 19, 2019 12:43:31 GMT -5
See, this I find funny. You and others often complain that DG is a liar and can't tell the truth. Yet here you are claiming something he said is a fact. I don't think there are words to describe the lunacy of that disconnected thought process. When he admits something that is uncomplimentary? Yes of course. As of yet, the only example of his lying that you have cited to me is a case of him telling the truth and now you are using his words as a statement of fact. So how exactly do you see him as a liar when he states the truth and utters facts? Sorry, I really can't find the line of Truth + Facts = Lying. I'm trying, honestly I am. I just can't follow that logic.
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Post by Sarcasman on Nov 19, 2019 12:44:59 GMT -5
When he admits something that is uncomplimentary? Yes of course. As of yet, the only example of his lying that you have cited to me is a case of him telling the truth and now you are using his words as a statement of fact. So how exactly do you see him as a liar when he states the truth and utters facts? Sorry, I really can't find the line of Truth + Facts = Lying. I'm trying, honestly I am. I just can't follow that logic. Maybe logic isn’t the right word.
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Post by jmike on Nov 19, 2019 12:50:41 GMT -5
As of yet, the only example of his lying that you have cited to me is a case of him telling the truth and now you are using his words as a statement of fact. So how exactly do you see him as a liar when he states the truth and utters facts? Sorry, I really can't find the line of Truth + Facts = Lying. I'm trying, honestly I am. I just can't follow that logic. Maybe logic isn’t the right word. Maybe. Now I have always just figured most of what comes out of a GM's mouth is at best half-truths. But for the most part you can expect lies, spin and misdirection from anyone in that position. So I generally don't pay much attention to what they say. The more these people try to convince me that he is dishonest, the more I start questioning my original thought process. DG is looking fairly direct and honest based on their explanations of his dishonesty. Maybe they just don't understand the difference between truth and lies. They must watch a lot of legacy media, those ideas do get kind of twisted in their hands.
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Post by jmike on Nov 19, 2019 13:05:12 GMT -5
Now I am just joking around, but more seriously you answer makes one very simple statement quite clear.
"Dave Gettleman only tells the truth when it fits my preconceived notions. Anything that does not confirm what I already think cannot be the truth."
You might want to stick that in your tag line for everyone to better understand your utterings. You're welcome.
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Post by Morehead State on Nov 19, 2019 13:11:02 GMT -5
When he admits something that is uncomplimentary? Yes of course. As of yet, the only example of his lying that you have cited to me is a case of him telling the truth and now you are using his words as a statement of fact. So how exactly do you see him as a liar when he states the truth and utters facts? Sorry, I really can't find the line of Truth + Facts = Lying. I'm trying, honestly I am. I just can't follow that logic. Give yourself time.......you will.
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Post by jmike on Nov 19, 2019 13:20:57 GMT -5
As of yet, the only example of his lying that you have cited to me is a case of him telling the truth and now you are using his words as a statement of fact. So how exactly do you see him as a liar when he states the truth and utters facts? Sorry, I really can't find the line of Truth + Facts = Lying. I'm trying, honestly I am. I just can't follow that logic. Give yourself time.......you will. Unlikely, they are contradictory.
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Post by Morehead State on Nov 19, 2019 13:49:32 GMT -5
Give yourself time.......you will. Unlikely, they are contradictory. Well let me explain. It is not my contention that every word that comes out of Dave's mouth is a lie. It IS my contention that he has said a few things that were clearly not true. It is also reasonable to suggest that when someone makes an admission like the one I described, it's highly unlikely that he is not telling the truth. There is absolutely no reason to be less than truthful.
But you can cling to whatever fantasy makes you feel better. When a GM says he took no calls when he was on the clock, why on earth would he lie? Folks lie when they get defensive....or can gain somehow. Neither seems applicable here.
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Post by jmike on Nov 19, 2019 14:02:46 GMT -5
Unlikely, they are contradictory. Well let me explain. It is not my contention that every word that comes out of Dave's mouth is a lie. It IS my contention that he has said a few things that were clearly not true. It is also reasonable to suggest that when someone makes an admission like the one I described, it's highly unlikely that he is not telling the truth. There is absolutely no reason to be less than truthful.
But you can cling to whatever fantasy makes you feel better. When a GM says he took no calls when he was on the clock, why on earth would he lie? Folks lie when they get defensive....or can gain somehow. Neither seems applicable here.
Why would he lie about that? Oh, I don't know, to further emphasize his conviction on making the selection maybe. Like all the other comments about the pick that seemed to be hyperbole to show the level of conviction on selecting Barkley. But no, that one was just the straight truth, of course! Because he is only honest when it confirms what you already think. Maybe he really thinks the hand of a divine entity reached from the spiritual realm and touched Barkley with a hand as well. I mean a divine entity would need hands...I guess....and he would need to touch a person with that hand for his powers to work...for reasons...yeah, that's the ticket! And....you did say that every word out of his mouth is a lie.....I figured it was hyperbole, but it is what you said. To date, you have yet to provide a single example of a lie. Really shouldn't be hard if he is such a liar.
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