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Post by jimmieray on Nov 27, 2019 6:51:15 GMT -5
You guys have to slow down on the Jackson hype train like he is a HOFer already. Media does too. It's getting out of hand. He is having a great year so far. I'll admit his passes are looking better, his TD INT ratio is great, but the thing is, he only had 169 yards throwing yesterday. It's still the legs with him. Sometimes it takes a bit to get figured out, or an injury happens. I love watching what he is doing though very exciting. Ravens did a great job so far developing and using him to his strengths, something I can almost guarantee the Giants would struggle with. He is very exciting to watch, and his team might just win a S.B. before that inevitable big injury. He's very fortunate to land on a team that knows how to maintain a roster in most areas.
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Post by giantsback2020 on Nov 27, 2019 6:59:57 GMT -5
You guys have to slow down on the Jackson hype train like he is a HOFer already. Media does too. It's getting out of hand. He is having a great year so far. I'll admit his passes are looking better, his TD INT ratio is great, but the thing is, he only had 169 yards throwing yesterday. It's still the legs with him. Sometimes it takes a bit to get figured out, or an injury happens. I love watching what he is doing though very exciting. Ravens did a great job so far developing and using him to his strengths, something I can almost guarantee the Giants would struggle with. He is very exciting to watch, and his team might just win a S.B. before that inevitable big injury. He's very fortunate to land on a team that knows how to maintain a roster in most areas. He reminds me of Cunningham. Cunningham lasted into his late 30s in a much more violent era. He’s gonna run for 1200 yards this year. I think that will change moving forward. I think v weaker opponents they’ll begin to reduce his usage in the running game. He will continue to evolve as a passer. He’s only 22 years old they have several years to make the evolution. There is no reason he’d get hurt relative to any other QB short term. Unlike acRB he’s mainly running in space and gets to slide. He’s not slamming himself into the Dline.
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Post by TCHOF on Nov 27, 2019 7:01:49 GMT -5
He is very exciting to watch, and his team might just win a S.B. before that inevitable big injury. He's very fortunate to land on a team that knows how to maintain a roster in most areas. He reminds me of Cunningham. Cunningham lasted into his late 30s in a much more violent era. He’s gonna run for 1200 yards this year. I think that will change moving forward. I think v weaker opponents they’ll begin to reduce his usage in the running game. He will continue to evolve as a passer. He’s only 22 years old they have several years to make the evolution. There is no reason he’d get hurt relative to any other QB short term. Unlike acRB he’s mainly running in space and gets to slide. He’s not slamming himself into the Dline. He’s running for 1200 yards and there is no reason he’d get hurt relative to other QB’s short term? Hmmm
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Post by giantsback2020 on Nov 27, 2019 7:06:08 GMT -5
He reminds me of Cunningham. Cunningham lasted into his late 30s in a much more violent era. He’s gonna run for 1200 yards this year. I think that will change moving forward. I think v weaker opponents they’ll begin to reduce his usage in the running game. He will continue to evolve as a passer. He’s only 22 years old they have several years to make the evolution. There is no reason he’d get hurt relative to any other QB short term. Unlike acRB he’s mainly running in space and gets to slide. He’s not slamming himself into the Dline. He’s running for 1200 yards and there is no reason he’d get hurt relative to other QB’s short term? Hmmm QBs get hurt in the pocket too. Ben. Brees. Mahomes got hurt on a simple sneak. Jackson doesn’t take contact on the majority of his runs. And on others it’s from corners where he knows it’s coming. QBs are most susceptible in the pocket where they don’t see a 260 pound DE coming.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 27, 2019 7:59:37 GMT -5
One interesting tidbit I heard on the radio this morning when they were talking about Lamars success this season. In the past, when the RPO started getting big, and scrambling / running QBs were using it, teams would just send a QB spy in on every RPO play and drill the QB regardless of if he kept the ball or not since its legal. With Lamar this season, for whatever reason, they havent done this to him. The defender coming in most the time pulls up and see's what he does with the ball first which gives Lamar the advantage. The analyst on the radio pointed out if teams decide to start doing that against him, it could completely change his thinking. I tend to agree. I dont have the numbers to back up his claims, but if teams arent doing that, and start doing drilling him on every play they are legally allowed to do so, I could definitely see it negatively impacting him. I just thought it was interesting he said teams werent doing this to him.
SF has the defensive personnel to do this so I dont know if he had inside info or not on their strategy but it is interesting.
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Post by giantsback2020 on Nov 27, 2019 8:09:58 GMT -5
One interesting tidbit I heard on the radio this morning when they were talking about Lamars success this season. In the past, when the RPO started getting big, and scrambling / running QBs were using it, teams would just send a QB spy in on every RPO play and drill the QB regardless of if he kept the ball or not since its legal. With Lamar this season, for whatever reason, they havent done this to him. The defender coming in most the time pulls up and see's what he does with the ball first which gives Lamar the advantage. The analyst on the radio pointed out if teams decide to start doing that against him, it could completely change his thinking. I tend to agree. I dont have the numbers to back up his claims, but if teams arent doing that, and start doing drilling him on every play they are legally allowed to do so, I could definitely see it negatively impacting him. I just thought it was interesting he said teams werent doing this to him. SF has the defensive personnel to do this so I dont know if he had inside info or not on their strategy but it is interesting. The Ravens only run about 15% RPOs. They are running layers of different offensive looks. They are largely built on a power run element which is enhanced by Jackson’s speed freezing defenders. They pound Ingram and Edwards. Jackson’s runs are a mix of RPOs, draws, and him just seeing a home be it immediately or as a pass play breaks down. He’s the most gifted runner I’ve seen. His field vision is incredible. And their running game can’t be stopped with a base D which gets him a lot of single coverage situations in the passing game which is something he’s been able to execute very well. Teams dont see this offense and they run it so well it’s going to be tough to stop. There is no great D in the AFC. You need a big athletic front 7 to stop them.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 27, 2019 8:14:02 GMT -5
One interesting tidbit I heard on the radio this morning when they were talking about Lamars success this season. In the past, when the RPO started getting big, and scrambling / running QBs were using it, teams would just send a QB spy in on every RPO play and drill the QB regardless of if he kept the ball or not since its legal. With Lamar this season, for whatever reason, they havent done this to him. The defender coming in most the time pulls up and see's what he does with the ball first which gives Lamar the advantage. The analyst on the radio pointed out if teams decide to start doing that against him, it could completely change his thinking. I tend to agree. I dont have the numbers to back up his claims, but if teams arent doing that, and start doing drilling him on every play they are legally allowed to do so, I could definitely see it negatively impacting him. I just thought it was interesting he said teams werent doing this to him. SF has the defensive personnel to do this so I dont know if he had inside info or not on their strategy but it is interesting. The Ravens only run about 15% RPOs. They are running layers of different offensive looks. They are largely built on a power run element which is enhanced by Jackson’s speed freezing defenders. They pound Ingram and Edwards. Jackson’s runs are a mix of RPOs, draws, and him just seeing a home be it immediately or as a pass play breaks down. He’s the most gifted runner I’ve seen. His field vision is incredible. And their running game can’t be stopped with a base D which gets him a lot of single coverage situations in the passing game which is something he’s been able to execute very well. Teams dont see this offense and they run it so well it’s going to be tough to stop. There is no great D in the AFC. You need a big athletic front 7 to stop them. Only 15%? Seems like more than that from what Ive seen them play. They definitely are using Ingram like a bulldozer though. Great game planning and scheme designs.
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Post by Roosevelt on Nov 27, 2019 9:06:29 GMT -5
In 2018 they could have traded back to middle of Round 1, taken Jackson @qb, and gotten a low Round 1/high Round 2 pick and taken Chubb @ RB. Jackson + Chubb versus Jones + Barkley? Thoughts I’m not sure what there is to gain by rehashing the draft. It looks as if we will be in the same position this spring. So based on the team’s needs and draft assets, do you want them to go hard for Young, or trade back? And which impact player do you see them getting if they trade back?
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Post by TEM on Nov 27, 2019 9:24:32 GMT -5
It is so easy to be a Savant Arm Chair GM . You can can display your genius months , years after the pick. There is only one problem with that profession. It never pays enough to get out of your parents basement. Many of us said it was asinine to take a RB at #2 with a roster as bad as ours BEFORE the pick was made But we both agree you must take the BPA on the board. After the fact GMs genius are dime a dozen.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 27, 2019 9:29:22 GMT -5
Jackson fell to 32, this is very much Monday Morning quarterbacking. There were serious concerns about Jackson as a passer. I still question if he can sustain this style for more than a couple years. His legs are off the charts. Theyve created an offense around that which is dynamic. However his legs are creating man throws which he’s able to make. As a traditional dropback passer he’d struggle mightily. I think they are going to win the SB this year having said that. I agree Monday morning QB'ing. But oth gettleman and shurmur make the big bucks to make moves like this. If they're not what's their value? 31 other teams didn't either, just like a few years back we could have had Watson with ease we had more to offer all hind sight, now if half the league was fighting over him you can call it a mistake but thats not the case.
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Post by scoostraw on Nov 27, 2019 9:31:39 GMT -5
You guys have to slow down on the Jackson hype train like he is a HOFer already. Media does too. It's getting out of hand. He is having a great year so far. I'll admit his passes are looking better, his TD INT ratio is great, but the thing is, he only had 169 yards throwing yesterday. It's still the legs with him. I think stats can be misleading. And Jackson is playing the pass game just fine IMO.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 27, 2019 9:33:05 GMT -5
You guys have to slow down on the Jackson hype train like he is a HOFer already. Media does too. It's getting out of hand. He is having a great year so far. I'll admit his passes are looking better, his TD INT ratio is great, but the thing is, he only had 169 yards throwing yesterday. It's still the legs with him. Sometimes it takes a bit to get figured out, or an injury happens. I love watching what he is doing though very exciting. Ravens did a great job so far developing and using him to his strengths, something I can almost guarantee the Giants would struggle with. He is very exciting to watch, and his team might just win a S.B. before that inevitable big injury. He's very fortunate to land on a team that knows how to maintain a roster in most areas. They have been working the meet and potatoes of the roster for years every year that is why they rarely will look like the Giants and they got the better of the 2 Harbough brothers. Jackson is fun to watch but now everyone has seen it so lets see if he can keep it going year in and year out.
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 27, 2019 9:40:28 GMT -5
You guys have to slow down on the Jackson hype train like he is a HOFer already. Media does too. It's getting out of hand. He is having a great year so far. I'll admit his passes are looking better, his TD INT ratio is great, but the thing is, he only had 169 yards throwing yesterday. It's still the legs with him. I think stats can be misleading. And Jackson is playing the pass game just fine IMO.
He is averaging 15 yards an ATTEMPT or some ridiculous number Meaning his completions are huge plays
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 27, 2019 9:41:23 GMT -5
You guys have to slow down on the Jackson hype train like he is a HOFer already. Media does too. It's getting out of hand. He is having a great year so far. I'll admit his passes are looking better, his TD INT ratio is great, but the thing is, he only had 169 yards throwing yesterday. It's still the legs with him. I think stats can be misleading. And Jackson is playing the pass game just fine IMO.
Stats absolutely can be misleading. His first threat is always his legs though. Thats all Im saying.
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Post by jimmieray on Nov 27, 2019 9:42:17 GMT -5
He’s running for 1200 yards and there is no reason he’d get hurt relative to other QB’s short term? Hmmm QBs get hurt in the pocket too. Ben. Brees. Mahomes got hurt on a simple sneak. Jackson doesn’t take contact on the majority of his runs. And on others it’s from corners where he knows it’s coming. QBs are most susceptible in the pocket where they don’t see a 260 pound DE coming. That spin move after already eluding other defenders was indeed a thing of beauty the other day. A guy can get self enamored over that type stuff, and go to the well one too many times. There will be a time a LBer will be airborne to meet him, that's a guarantee. And that's also why toothpicks come 484 to a box. Our guy hopefully will still be tearing up the league, well beyond then.
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Post by scoostraw on Nov 27, 2019 9:43:37 GMT -5
I think stats can be misleading. And Jackson is playing the pass game just fine IMO.
Stats absolutely can be misleading. His first threat is always his legs though. Thats all Im saying. I hearya.
So how do you think the Giants' defense would do against Baltimore? (Can you just imagine ??)
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 27, 2019 9:43:54 GMT -5
In 2018 they could have traded back to middle of Round 1, taken Jackson @qb, and gotten a low Round 1/high Round 2 pick and taken Chubb @ RB. Jackson + Chubb versus Jones + Barkley? Thoughts I’m not sure what there is to gain by rehashing the draft. It looks as if we will be in the same position this spring. So based on the team’s needs and draft assets, do you want them to go hard for Young, or trade back? And which impact player do you see them getting if they trade back? The only thing to gain is nothing not even an I told you so we are 2 drafts in and every player still has a lot of development to go. The sad part is people were just waiting for the moment that a great kid and talent like Barkely has a freak ankle injury so that they could say I told you so. I would prefer to talk about who we have and not who we could of had because that is all hind sight. Or talk about who we might have coming up in the next draft. I have missed a ton of college ball so I am depending on some of you to get the names out, so I could go the lazy route and cherry pick games and see these possible up and coming Giants.
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Post by GameTime on Nov 27, 2019 9:50:18 GMT -5
In 2018 they could have traded back to middle of Round 1, taken Jackson @qb, and gotten a low Round 1/high Round 2 pick and taken Chubb @ RB. Jackson + Chubb versus Jones + Barkley? Thoughts thoughts?? hind sight is BS... thats my thought. Unless you were a big fan of Jackson during the draft the any opinion now is just BS...
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Post by DandyDon on Nov 27, 2019 9:51:28 GMT -5
In 2018 they could have traded back to middle of Round 1, taken Jackson @qb, and gotten a low Round 1/high Round 2 pick and taken Chubb @ RB. Jackson + Chubb versus Jones + Barkley? Thoughts thoughts?? hind sight is BS... thats my thought. Unless you were a big fan of Jackson during the draft the any opinion now is just BS... He would already be on IR if he was with us.
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Post by giantsback2020 on Nov 27, 2019 9:52:01 GMT -5
I’m not sure what there is to gain by rehashing the draft. It looks as if we will be in the same position this spring. So based on the team’s needs and draft assets, do you want them to go hard for Young, or trade back? And which impact player do you see them getting if they trade back? The only thing to gain is nothing not even an I told you so we are 2 drafts in and every player still has a lot of development to go. The sad part is people were just waiting for the moment that a great kid and talent like Barkely has a freak ankle injury so that they could say I told you so. I would prefer to talk about who we have and not who we could of had because that is all hind sight. Or talk about who we might have coming up in the next draft. I have missed a ton of college ball so I am depending on some of you to get the names out, so I could go the lazy route and cherry pick games and see these possible up and coming Giants. What’s to gain by rehashing the draft is part of the evaluation of this GM. The Giants have caproom and high picks. This offseason is going to set the nucleus of the roster for Jones cheap 2-5 years. If we mess this offseason up we will be beyond repair. Based on DG’s 2 years and the Williams trade, I’d fire him.
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Post by TEM on Nov 27, 2019 9:52:13 GMT -5
I think stats can be misleading. And Jackson is playing the pass game just fine IMO.
Stats absolutely can be misleading. His first threat is always his legs though. Thats all Im saying. I agree. His passing attempts are not even close to the other 11 game starters. He is at 299. 27 attempts per game The average is around 380 . 35 attempts per game.
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Post by GameTime on Nov 27, 2019 9:59:33 GMT -5
Stats absolutely can be misleading. His first threat is always his legs though. Thats all Im saying. I agree. His passing attempts are not even close to the other 11 game starters. He is at 299. 27 attempts per game The average is around 380 . 35 attempts per game. 27 attempts per game is very good. Whats so bad about finding a sweet spot for the QB and the offense. Not like like he's throwing 15 times a game. The other QBs with more attempts are not doing what Jackson is doing. There is no misleading stats at all....just different stats. The kid is having a banner season....plain and simple
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Post by TEM on Nov 27, 2019 10:05:13 GMT -5
I agree. His passing attempts are not even close to the other 11 game starters. He is at 299. 27 attempts per game The average is around 380 . 35 attempts per game. 27 attempts per game is very good. Whats so bad about finding a sweet spot for the QB and the offense. Not like like he's throwing 15 times a game. The other QBs with more attempts are not doing what Jackson is doing. There is no misleading stats at all....just different stats. The kid is having a banner season....plain and simple No doubt. I am not convinced about his longevity. At some point he is going to have to stop running and be just a QB. I am not sure he can do that. Can he sit back and go through his reads? We will know with in the next 3 - 4 seasons.
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Post by GameTime on Nov 27, 2019 10:08:13 GMT -5
27 attempts per game is very good. Whats so bad about finding a sweet spot for the QB and the offense. Not like like he's throwing 15 times a game. The other QBs with more attempts are not doing what Jackson is doing. There is no misleading stats at all....just different stats. The kid is having a banner season....plain and simple No doubt. I am not convinced about his longevity. At some point he is going to have to stop running and be just a QB. I am not sure he can do that. Can he sit back and go through his reads? We will know with in the nest 3 - 4 seasons. I didnt like his game for the NFL and when Harbaugh said he was going to run 300 times for the season I figured it would be a joke. So far I am 100% wrong. He has shown some pocket prowess already as well. This team is constructed around his abilities. It will be interesting to see how long he can keep his game the way it is.
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 27, 2019 10:10:45 GMT -5
This is a cross post from NFL section I made about this there
It also has to do with personal and having matchup issues all over the field Perfect storm
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 27, 2019 10:11:36 GMT -5
Here is an interesting take on Lamars season by comp %. Average QB is the yellow line. As you can see, he is above average on the 0-15 yard passes for the most part. Below average from 17 yards to 33 yards. And WAY above average 35 yards plus. This is the deep ball he is nailing. Most of these come when the safety comes up respecting the run and a WR like Brown gets past the secondary. The bottom chart shows his density of throws by yardage. Most of Lamars throws are at 5ish yards. The league average is 9ish yards. So he is utilizing the shorter passes much more than the average QB, but nailing the deep balls when attempting them.
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Post by Morehead State on Nov 27, 2019 10:32:19 GMT -5
The guy Jackson reminds me of is RG III before he got hurt. This kid isn't built like Russell Wilson. He's much more slightly built. I think he's an injury waiting to happen. He's a terrific and dynamic player, just like RGIII was. I hope he doesn't suffer the same fate.
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soflo
Special Teams
Posts: 1,718
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Post by soflo on Nov 27, 2019 10:33:59 GMT -5
It's funny because just a couple of years ago Harbaugh was on the hot seat. Now he's a top coach again.
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Post by DandyDon on Nov 27, 2019 10:38:52 GMT -5
The guy Jackson reminds me of is RG III before he got hurt. This kid isn't built like Russell Wilson. He's much more slightly built. I think he's an injury waiting to happen. He's a terrific and dynamic player, just like RGIII was. I hope he doesn't suffer the same fate. Totally agree.
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Post by Sarcasman on Nov 27, 2019 10:42:10 GMT -5
Which of those QBs has proven to be a better pick than Jones? And while we're at it, how about Beckham? Didn't you posit that he was guaranteed to have a much, much better season now that he's got a real QB throwing to him? Abwahahhahahahahahahhahahha! That one never gets old! I am not sure what you mean I am new around here. Sorry, my bad. Plus you seem far too smart to support such a ridiculous and embarrassing position, right?
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