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Post by TEM on Jan 16, 2020 15:06:15 GMT -5
Turning a blind eye to it is acceptance to cheating . Just because he did hot benefit from it as a hitter is not an indicator of innocence. As I said; And I am looking at it from an unbias perspective. You cannot hold one player accountable with out holding the rest to the same standard . They all should be suspended. If MLB wants to have any credibility to all its fans. It must use the same standards for all participants. Or it is a sham. Not how it works. Otherwise sports wouldnt exist. So some can cheat and some cannot? Are you ok with Coal being a collaborator to cheating now on the Yankees? Like I said that can of worm is now open on player accountability in it. If it was just held to management. All the player would be exempt. That is not the case as of today.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Jan 16, 2020 15:18:20 GMT -5
Not how it works. Otherwise sports wouldnt exist. So some can cheat and some cannot? Are you ok with Coal being a collaborator to cheating now on the Yankees? Like I said that can of worm is now open on player accountability in it. If it was just held to management. All the player would be exempt. That is not the case as of today. So you think the teammates of a steroid user should get penalized like the steroid user?
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Post by TEM on Jan 16, 2020 15:33:47 GMT -5
So some can cheat and some cannot? Are you ok with Coal being a collaborator to cheating now on the Yankees? Like I said that can of worm is now open on player accountability in it. If it was just held to management. All the player would be exempt. That is not the case as of today. So you think the teammates of a steroid user should get penalized like the steroid user? That is not what I am saying . I am listing to the Mets press conference about Beltran as I write this. It seems that player rabbit hole is deep from the lack of commentary by the Mets . What was said; MLB is continuing the investigation on if other players knowledge of it.. The exact question I am presenting are being asked about other players knowledge of it. All Mets FO said was Beltran did admit to knowing about it and he is cooperating with MLB. Like I said that can of worms is now open.
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Post by DandyDon on Jan 16, 2020 16:43:08 GMT -5
I get why they did it, but it's not really fair - certainly Beltran was not the only player involved.
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Post by BronxBomberBlue on Jan 16, 2020 16:46:17 GMT -5
This wasn't a move by the Commissioner or MLB. It was a decision by the Mets' front office. It was due to pressure . Why aren't the Yankees stepping up than to do what is right? IMO it is scapegoating BS. if one is. All should be held accountable. What?? What does the Yankees have to do with this? It was Mets' decision to let Beltran go. There was absolutely no pressure of any kind from the Commish and/or fromMajor League Baseball. This decision was solely from upper management within the organization.
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Post by BronxBomberBlue on Jan 16, 2020 16:49:16 GMT -5
The Mets fired him because it would be a PR disaster keeping him as a manager. If he was the Yankees manager, I could see the same ending for him He was not in management at the time . He was a player. The Yankees should be doing the same with Cole as should the Astros with their players and all other teams with those in question players. What the player's role in Baseball today should be irrelevant. As it would be in a court of law. If one guy should be held accountable because of his holding a blind eye to the infractions as a player. All associated with it should be as well . It is sanctimonious to suggest; just because the player is still a player and not in managerial position should exempt them form a behavior standard that was set today. I am sorry that my friend is a double standard. The Yankees should be doing the same with Cole.... Ok, lol. For the record, the hitters were the ones that were cheating, not the pitchers.
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Post by BronxBomberBlue on Jan 16, 2020 16:52:57 GMT -5
Do you think the Mets should keep him as the manager? And this wouldnt be a distraction? MLB didnt fire him. His team did. Know why? Because he would be a complete disaster there with this on his back. It would dominate the papers and locker room after every game. Players on the Mets roster may have lost all respect for him after this. It was the obvious move for the Mets. As for Cole, when did he cheat? This was the best move for the Mets future. Turning a blind eye to it is acceptance to cheating . Just because he did hot benefit from it as a hitter is not an indicator of innocence. As I said; And I am looking at it from an unbias perspective. You cannot hold one player accountable with out holding the rest to the same standard . They all should be suspended. If MLB wants to have any credibility to all its fans. It must use the same standards for all participants. Or it is a sham. Nobody, I repeat nobody was holding Beltran to a different standard. The Houston investigation was completed, the suspensions were handed out, and Beltran along with all the other players were "NOT" suspended.
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Post by BronxBomberBlue on Jan 16, 2020 16:58:27 GMT -5
Not how it works. Otherwise sports wouldnt exist. So some can cheat and some cannot? Are you ok with Coal being a collaborator to cheating now on the Yankees? Like I said that can of worm is now open on player accountability in it. If it was just held to management. All the player would be exempt. That is not the case as of today. Sorry, but absolutely nothing has changed today in regards to the completed investigation itself. Beltran was not getting suspended for any involvement, just like all of his 2017 World Champion teammates. The New York Mets had every right to keep Beltran on board. They (and only they) chose not to because they didn't want the media circus all season long, which I completely understand on their part. It would've been a major distraction.
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Post by BronxBomberBlue on Jan 16, 2020 16:59:28 GMT -5
I get why they did it, but it's not really fair - certainly Beltran was not the only player involved. +1
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Post by TheAnalyst on Jan 16, 2020 17:00:39 GMT -5
So you think the teammates of a steroid user should get penalized like the steroid user? That is not what I am saying . I am listing to the Mets press conference about Beltran as I write this. It seems that player rabbit hole is deep from the lack of commentary by the Mets . What was said; MLB is continuing the investigation on if other players knowledge of it.. The exact question I am presenting are being asked about other players knowledge of it. All Mets FO said was Beltran did admit to knowing about it and he is cooperating with MLB. Like I said that can of worms is now open. Just saying, you sound like a mad Mets fan who hates the Yankees and is making zero sense.
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Jan 16, 2020 22:00:06 GMT -5
Who now? I bet it’s Bogar. Puke. Perez. Puke. Such a Mets thing to happen.
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Post by Sarcasman on Jan 17, 2020 3:28:22 GMT -5
Who now? I bet it’s Bogar. Puke. Perez. Puke. Such a Mets thing to happen. You can bet it'll be someone cheap.
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Post by TEM on Jan 17, 2020 7:56:01 GMT -5
What?? What does the Yankees have to do with this? It was Mets' decision to let Beltran go. There was absolutely no pressure of any kind from the Commish and/or fromMajor League Baseball. This decision was solely from upper management within the organization. The Yankees should be doing the same with Cole.... Ok, lol. For the record, the hitters were the ones that were cheating, not the pitchers. Nobody, I repeat nobody was holding Beltran to a different standard. The Houston investigation was completed, the suspensions were handed out, and Beltran along with all the other players were "NOT" suspended. Sorry, but absolutely nothing has changed today in regards to the completed investigation itself. Beltran was not getting suspended for any involvement, just like all of his 2017 World Champion teammates. The New York Mets had every right to keep Beltran on board. They (and only they) chose not to because they didn't want the media circus all season long, which I completely understand on their part. It would've been a major distraction. He was in the dugout. he knew it was happening. How is he innocent? Knowing and not reporting it is just as bad. If he benefited from the cheating with wins and a contract.? You guys crack me up You have no problem talking about other team cheating on your thread, Now when one played had direct knowledge of it and reaps the reward of it with a big contract. He is exonerated? I listened to the interview with he Mets yesterday MLB is not finished investigating players. As soon a Beltran as a player in implicated all of them are on the hook.
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Post by TEM on Jan 17, 2020 8:00:40 GMT -5
That is not what I am saying . I am listing to the Mets press conference about Beltran as I write this. It seems that player rabbit hole is deep from the lack of commentary by the Mets . What was said; MLB is continuing the investigation on if other players knowledge of it.. The exact question I am presenting are being asked about other players knowledge of it. All Mets FO said was Beltran did admit to knowing about it and he is cooperating with MLB. Like I said that can of worms is now open. Just saying, you sound like a mad Mets fan who hates the Yankees and is making zero sense. Hate the Yankees< I was rooting for them to win in the playoffs. I am saying all involved need to held accountable now that a player has been held accountable. Are really saying it should be a different standard for one player and not another because he is a Yankee?
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Post by TheAnalyst on Jan 17, 2020 8:27:29 GMT -5
Just saying, you sound like a mad Mets fan who hates the Yankees and is making zero sense. Hate the Yankees< I was rooting for them to win in the playoffs. I am saying all involved need to held accountable now that a player has been held accountable. Are really saying it should be a different standard for one player and not another because he is a Yankee? You still dont get it. One was going to the manager of a ball club, in the middle of a cheating scandal involving him. The other was a FA pitcher not involved in or tied to a cheating scandal as he wasnt even there in 2017 when it allegedly happened. Also one other nugget, for you, if Beltran was still playing,, he would be in trouble as much as Jose Altuve or Alex Bregman are. Which is not much. Know why? The players union protects its players. Beltran lost that privilege when he stopped playing so they can not protect him. And again, this is the Mets firing him, not MLB.
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Post by TEM on Jan 17, 2020 8:39:28 GMT -5
Hate the Yankees< I was rooting for them to win in the playoffs. I am saying all involved need to held accountable now that a player has been held accountable. Are really saying it should be a different standard for one player and not another because he is a Yankee? You still dont get it. One was going to the manager of a ball club, in the middle of a cheating scandal involving him. The other was a FA pitcher not involved in or tied to a cheating scandal as he wasnt even there in 2017 when it allegedly happened. Also one other nugget, for you, if Beltran was still playing,, he would be in trouble as much as Jose Altuve or Alex Bregman are. Which is not much. Know why? The players union protects its players. Beltran lost that privilege when he stopped playing so they can not protect him. And again, this is the Mets firing him, not MLB. There is You Tube videos of the cheating this year. He was in the dugout while it was happening. I will say it again during the press conference the Mets conveyed MLB said they are not done with who had knowledge of it and could comment on details . The union can not protect against cheating . If they could the rules mean nothing.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Jan 17, 2020 8:47:59 GMT -5
You still dont get it. One was going to the manager of a ball club, in the middle of a cheating scandal involving him. The other was a FA pitcher not involved in or tied to a cheating scandal as he wasnt even there in 2017 when it allegedly happened. Also one other nugget, for you, if Beltran was still playing,, he would be in trouble as much as Jose Altuve or Alex Bregman are. Which is not much. Know why? The players union protects its players. Beltran lost that privilege when he stopped playing so they can not protect him. And again, this is the Mets firing him, not MLB. There is You Tube videos of the cheating this year. He was in the dugout while it was happening. I will say it again during the press conference the Mets conveyed MLB said they are not done with who had knowledge of it and could comment on details . The union can not protect against cheating . If they could the rules mean nothing. MLB has only brought the hammer down on them for 2017. Everything else, like buzzers on Altuve and all that, is speculation and has not been punished by MLB. Do I think something was up? Absolutely. But much like in the steroid era, even if a guy appears to be cheating 100% and its pretty obvious, but MLB doesnt do anything about it, there is nothing anyone can do about it. Your infatuation with wanting Cole to get hammered for being associated with a team that was cheating is kinda insane (and its obvious its only due to him being a Yankee). Unless they find Cole using it to his advantage, or cheating some other way, its a moot point. Astros hitters were busted in 2017. Red Sox hitters are being investigated for 2018.
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Post by TEM on Jan 17, 2020 9:06:08 GMT -5
There is You Tube videos of the cheating this year. He was in the dugout while it was happening. I will say it again during the press conference the Mets conveyed MLB said they are not done with who had knowledge of it and could comment on details . The union can not protect against cheating . If they could the rules mean nothing. MLB has only brought the hammer down on them for 2017. Everything else, like buzzers on Altuve and all that, is speculation and has not been punished by MLB. Do I think something was up? Absolutely. But much like in the steroid era, even if a guy appears to be cheating 100% and its pretty obvious, but MLB doesnt do anything about it, there is nothing anyone can do about it. Your infatuation with wanting Cole to get hammered for being associated with a team that was cheating is kinda insane (and its obvious its only due to him being a Yankee). Unless they find Cole using it to his advantage, or cheating some other way, its a moot point. Astros hitters were busted in 2017. Red Sox hitters are being investigated for 2018. you make Sound like I wanted this. I knew if Beltran was held accountable. It would hurt baseball. It should have stopped at the managerial level It didn't. The flood gate on who knew what and when was open. MLB has a big problem It is already being exposed. If it doesn't go after all involved . Its credibility for sports betting and fan confidence will be questioned. And believe me the piggies are going to squeal . It has already started. Cole just singed a big contract. He has a very big X on his back. This rabbit hole is deep.
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Jan 17, 2020 11:11:58 GMT -5
Who now? I bet it’s Bogar. Puke. Perez. Puke. Such a Mets thing to happen. You can bet it'll be someone cheap. Above all else it will absolutely be that
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Post by BronxBomberBlue on Jan 17, 2020 11:24:55 GMT -5
You can bet it'll be someone cheap. Above all else it will absolutely be that Why doesn't Steve Cohen (the future owner of the Mets) tell the Wilpon's, "look, here's three or four million dollars. Now go get Buck Showalter" (or someone of that elk. Didn't he once buy a painting for $175 million?
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Post by BronxBomberBlue on Jan 17, 2020 11:58:55 GMT -5
What?? What does the Yankees have to do with this? It was Mets' decision to let Beltran go. There was absolutely no pressure of any kind from the Commish and/or fromMajor League Baseball. This decision was solely from upper management within the organization. The Yankees should be doing the same with Cole.... Ok, lol. For the record, the hitters were the ones that were cheating, not the pitchers. Nobody, I repeat nobody was holding Beltran to a different standard. The Houston investigation was completed, the suspensions were handed out, and Beltran along with all the other players were "NOT" suspended. Sorry, but absolutely nothing has changed today in regards to the completed investigation itself. Beltran was not getting suspended for any involvement, just like all of his 2017 World Champion teammates. The New York Mets had every right to keep Beltran on board. They (and only they) chose not to because they didn't want the media circus all season long, which I completely understand on their part. It would've been a major distraction. He was in the dugout. he knew it was happening. How is he innocent? Knowing and not reporting it is just as bad. If he benefited from the cheating with wins and a contract.? You guys crack me up You have no problem talking about other team cheating on your thread, Now when one played had direct knowledge of it and reaps the reward of it with a big contract. He is exonerated? I listened to the interview with he Mets yesterday MLB is not finished investigating players. As soon a Beltran as a player in implicated all of them are on the hook. I just checked the "MLB smackdown on Astros" thread... Why weren't you all up in arms over the players not being suspended "before" the Beltran firing? It seems it became an issue for you "after" the Mets solely made their decision withOUT any outside pressure from MLB.
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Post by TEM on Jan 17, 2020 12:21:30 GMT -5
He was in the dugout. he knew it was happening. How is he innocent? Knowing and not reporting it is just as bad. If he benefited from the cheating with wins and a contract.? You guys crack me up You have no problem talking about other team cheating on your thread, Now when one played had direct knowledge of it and reaps the reward of it with a big contract. He is exonerated? I listened to the interview with he Mets yesterday MLB is not finished investigating players. As soon a Beltran as a player in implicated all of them are on the hook. I just checked the "MLB smackdown on Astros" thread... Why weren't you all up in arms over the players not being suspended "before" the Beltran firing? It seems it became an issue for you "after" the Mets solely made their decision withOUT any outside pressure from MLB. I have already stated that it should have stopped with management. A player was now held accountable. A major league team acknowledging (a player and he was at the time) should be held accountable . That opens the door for the rest of the players that knew that the integrity of the game was compromised. This ain't football air pressure or filming practice. This in game real time cheating . The law suits have already started. Do you think the Vegas casinos, odds makers , online betting firms, Individual who placed bets thinking the odds were sound are not going bring a case? MLB is going to be forced to clean house on all involve to re-ensure the integrity of the game. Like I said Pete Rose was banned for life for betting on his team to win . This is way beyond that. It is an entire team for multiple seasons. What everyone that had knowledge of the cheating allowed the integrity of the game to be compromised. This is rabbit hole is deeper than you guys think.
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Post by Sarcasman on Jan 17, 2020 13:00:35 GMT -5
He was in the dugout. he knew it was happening. How is he innocent? Knowing and not reporting it is just as bad. If he benefited from the cheating with wins and a contract.? You guys crack me up You have no problem talking about other team cheating on your thread, Now when one played had direct knowledge of it and reaps the reward of it with a big contract. He is exonerated? I listened to the interview with he Mets yesterday MLB is not finished investigating players. As soon a Beltran as a player in implicated all of them are on the hook. I just checked the "MLB smackdown on Astros" thread... Why weren't you all up in arms over the players not being suspended "before" the Beltran firing? It seems it became an issue for you "after" the Mets solely made their decision withOUT any outside pressure from MLB. Well, Beltran is the only player - and also probably not coincidentally, the only non active player - punished for this so far. It's nearly impossible to sell the idea that every player and coach didn't know what was going on, I believe they did. But it's up to MLB to decode how they want to handle this. I've already seen stories accusing Altuve of wearing a buzzer to tip him off on pitches. This could get hugely messy or it could get swept under the rug. It's up to MLB. But if it's not swept under the rug, get ready for a ton of this: "But there is a disturbing account of the wink-wink level of how elements of the Astros’ system spread. Before the 2019 season, the New York Yankees hired Beltran as a special assistant to General Manager Brian Cashman. Last June, Boston gave up 29 runs in a two-game series sweep at the hands of the Yankees in London. Afterward, Cora addressed the sweep, and brought up Beltran — unsolicited. “I was joking with somebody that their biggest free agent acquisition was Carlos Beltran,” Cora said just before providing an exaggerated wink. “I know how he works. He’s helping a lot … I’m not saying ‘devices,’ all that stuff. It’s just stuff that the game will dictate, and we’ll scream at people and it’s right there. Throughout the evening, I was looking and I saw it.” In the moment, huh? But nearly seven months later, there’s new context to what Cora was talking about. And yet Cora is out of a job, and Beltran is about to start his."www.washingtonpost.com/sports/mlb/mlb-wont-punish-cheating-astros-players-and-thats-not-right/2020/01/15/7a41139c-37c1-11ea-bb7b-265f4554af6d_story.html
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Post by DandyDon on Jan 17, 2020 16:08:11 GMT -5
MLB has only brought the hammer down on them for 2017. Everything else, like buzzers on Altuve and all that, is speculation and has not been punished by MLB. Do I think something was up? Absolutely. But much like in the steroid era, even if a guy appears to be cheating 100% and its pretty obvious, but MLB doesnt do anything about it, there is nothing anyone can do about it. Your infatuation with wanting Cole to get hammered for being associated with a team that was cheating is kinda insane (and its obvious its only due to him being a Yankee). Unless they find Cole using it to his advantage, or cheating some other way, its a moot point. Astros hitters were busted in 2017. Red Sox hitters are being investigated for 2018. you make Sound like I wanted this. I knew if Beltran was held accountable. It would hurt baseball. It should have stopped at the managerial level It didn't. The flood gate on who knew what and when was open. MLB has a big problem It is already being exposed. If it doesn't go after all involved . Its credibility for sports betting and fan confidence will be questioned. And believe me the piggies are going to squeal . It has already started. Cole just singed a big contract. He has a very big X on his back. This rabbit hole is deep. This advantaged hitters. Why would a pitcher who was on the team have "a very big X on his back?"
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Post by TEM on Jan 17, 2020 17:07:34 GMT -5
you make Sound like I wanted this. I knew if Beltran was held accountable. It would hurt baseball. It should have stopped at the managerial level It didn't. The flood gate on who knew what and when was open. MLB has a big problem It is already being exposed. If it doesn't go after all involved . Its credibility for sports betting and fan confidence will be questioned. And believe me the piggies are going to squeal . It has already started. Cole just singed a big contract. He has a very big X on his back. This rabbit hole is deep. This advantaged hitters. Why would a pitcher who was on the team have "a very big X on his back?" He just singed a big contract . He was in the dugout while the infractions were occurring ( knowledge of) His win total could have been enhanced due to the cheating. How is it not an advantage for the pitcher for the cheating team?
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Jan 17, 2020 17:12:56 GMT -5
Lmao, now Jack McDowell says Larussa did the same shit in the 80’s. I have always figured Larussa as good at “cheating “ in a baseball sense. He won more games with meh rosters than any manager I can think of. I agree with the firing of Beltran, but the Astros were doing the same thing people gave been doing forever. I shutter to say it, but ESPN actually has a pretty good article about how the times and technology we live in put the public front and center in discovering the Astros tactics. Interesting and sad at the same time.
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Post by DandyDon on Jan 17, 2020 19:19:12 GMT -5
This advantaged hitters. Why would a pitcher who was on the team have "a very big X on his back?" He just singed a big contract . He was in the dugout while the infractions were occurring ( knowledge of) His win total could have been enhanced due to the cheating. How is it not an advantage for the pitcher for the cheating team? Ok...
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Post by TheAnalyst on Jan 17, 2020 19:33:06 GMT -5
He just singed a big contract . He was in the dugout while the infractions were occurring ( knowledge of) His win total could have been enhanced due to the cheating. How is it not an advantage for the pitcher for the cheating team? Ok... The blinding Yankee hate is strong with that one.
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Jan 17, 2020 19:39:11 GMT -5
Ok... The blinding Yankee hate is strong with that one. Duh get it right, it’s Yankme’s! 😎
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Post by DandyDon on Jan 17, 2020 19:40:41 GMT -5
Ok... The blinding Yankee hate is strong with that one. The commish has already publicly stated he was not going to go after players for a variety of good reasons. And why a pitcher would be more deserving of punishment just because he got a big contract? The logic eludes me...
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