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Post by DrRumack on Dec 14, 2019 9:09:16 GMT -5
With Jenkins: 28th scoring defense (27.8 ppg) 27th total defense (376.3 ypg) 26th passing defense (261.8 ypg) 28th passing defense (101.3 QB rating) I mean.... we were pretty much getting lit up every week with him.Ā So what's the difference? True but you have to admit it is actually worse without him. Instead of throwing to the opposite side of the field he is playing. QBs can now throw it everywhere I donāt know if itās worse without him. Havenāt seen it yet. What I have seen is teams, for years, pass at will on us. So Iām not exactly sure how I can distinguish the smell of shit with Jenkins is better than the smell of shit without him. They both smell like shit to me. |
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Post by TCHOF on Dec 14, 2019 9:14:48 GMT -5
We're going to invest heavily in the secondary this offseason. Free agency, premium draft picks. The big challenge of the new staff will be to turn Baker around. Beal can run but is so far behind, who knows if he'll ever stay healthy enough to get to where he should be. Ballantine will just be another player in the mix. And if Gettleman goes too it just throws a bigger question mark on everything. Um, yeah, this is not happening unless Gettleman goes and the new guy decides that he hates the young kids |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2019 9:22:22 GMT -5
True but you have to admit it is actually worse without him. Instead of throwing to the opposite side of the field he is playing. QBs can now throw it everywhere I donāt know if itās worse without him. Havenāt seen it yet. What I have seen is teams, for years, pass at will on us. So Iām not exactly sure how I can distinguish the smell of shit with Jenkins is better than the smell of shit without him. They both smell like shit to me. I guess we will see these last 3 games. Unfortunately. The only good QB we will face is Wentz. Baker our #1 CB at this point is ranked dead last by PFF. Some shits smell worse then others. |
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Post by DandyDon on Dec 14, 2019 10:48:13 GMT -5
I'm ready for it...let's see what they've got. Maybe Bettcher will finally just let them play. Let them get up on people and cover and see how they do. I read a good article on how complicated his coverage schemes are. I am 100% sure that is why these guys struggled so much this season. Also why Baker has been fantastic the last 3 games. I am positive with some more time Ballentine and Beal will be fine. Going into next season with Baker, Ballentine, Beal, Love and Peppers I feel very good about. They are all very talented, we just need them to learn this crazy system. All you have to do is re-watch the final scoring play last week. These guys literally have no idea at times who is supposed to cover which receiver. Their best receiver is left wide open at the post and the defenders are looking at each other and raising their arms after the play. |
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Post by fifthavephil on Dec 14, 2019 12:04:04 GMT -5
If, for some reason , Giants donāt get CY. ( priority NO.1)
Trade down, get an extra NO.1
Draft Thomas (OT) and Delpit (FS).
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Post by McCherry on Dec 14, 2019 13:02:37 GMT -5
We're going to invest heavily in the secondary this offseason. Free agency, premium draft picks. The big challenge of the new staff will be to turn Baker around. Beal can run but is so far behind, who knows if he'll ever stay healthy enough to get to where he should be. Ballantine will just be another player in the mix. And if Gettleman goes too it just throws a bigger question mark on everything. Um, yeah, this is not happening unless Gettleman goes and the new guy decides that he hates the young kids It's not a question of hating the kids, one of their first jobs is to fix one of the worst secondaries in football history. Whoever it is, they'll have no attachments or reasons to justify Sam Beal or any other rookies from the staff we just fired. As of now Peppers is the only real starter we have in the secondary. |
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Post by TCHOF on Dec 14, 2019 16:32:41 GMT -5
Um, yeah, this is not happening unless Gettleman goes and the new guy decides that he hates the young kids It's not a question of hating the kids, one of their first jobs is to fix one of the worst secondaries in football history. Whoever it is, they'll have no attachments or reasons to justify Sam Beal or any other rookies from the staff we just fired. As of now Peppers is the only real starter we have in the secondary. Rookies from the staff we just fired??? Gettleman made all of those picks. If he stays he will not be putting premium draft capital (first and second round picks) into the DB position |
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Post by IrishMike on Dec 14, 2019 17:51:37 GMT -5
I read a good article on how complicated his coverage schemes are. I am 100% sure that is why these guys struggled so much this season. Also why Baker has been fantastic the last 3 games. I am positive with some more time Ballentine and Beal will be fine. Going into next season with Baker, Ballentine, Beal, Love and Peppers I feel very good about. They are all very talented, we just need them to learn this crazy system. All you have to do is re-watch the final scoring play last week. These guys literally have no idea at times who is supposed to cover which receiver. Their best receiver is left wide open at the post and the defenders are looking at each other and raising their arms after the play. 100%. I said it week 1 all the mistakes on D were mental, not physical. Guys weren't getting burned, they just weren't covering the right guys. I thought this would be fixed by now but seems to still be an issue at times. Could have to do with adding more young guys to the mix (Love, Ballentine and Beal all getting playing time now). They need to fix it by next year though cause even if we had LT blitzing we would give up TDs by not covering players. |
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Post by IrishMike on Dec 14, 2019 17:53:48 GMT -5
As of now Peppers is the only real starter we have in the secondary. This is flat out wrong. Most of these young guys can play, they need to fix our scheme so they know who to cover. Baker has played lights out the last few weeks. Love has been solid. Beal and Ballentine both have the talent but need time in this system. |
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Post by giants38 on Dec 14, 2019 23:23:18 GMT -5
As of now Peppers is the only real starter we have in the secondary. This is flat out wrong. Most of these young guys can play, they need to fix our scheme so they know who to cover. Baker has played lights out the last few weeks. Love has been solid. Beal and Ballentine both have the talent but need time in this system. Here is the problem. Beal has a considerable injury history. Ballentine already has two concussions. Serious issues considering that they have not had that much playing time. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 14, 2019 23:30:39 GMT -5
It would be telling if all of a sudden the secondary looks like they are on the same page and actually shows progress as a very young unit I think in the end more next year Love and Peppers maybe the best safety tandem we have had in years. Love is a really smart player instinctive he had pretty tight coverage on Ertz for not knowing what the formation was if wentz isn't perfect there no TD. This kid hopefully will take control of that secondary next year, or by the end of this year. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 14, 2019 23:34:16 GMT -5
This is flat out wrong. Most of these young guys can play, they need to fix our scheme so they know who to cover. Baker has played lights out the last few weeks. Love has been solid. Beal and Ballentine both have the talent but need time in this system. Here is the problem. Beal has a considerable injury history. Ballentine already has two concussions. Serious issues considering that they have not had that much playing time. Love is coming on and lets see if Baker can keep getting better his second half is starting to shape up Beal and Ballentine need to have some time to see if they can beat the injury bug. They have three games to prove they can survive. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 14, 2019 23:45:18 GMT -5
It's not a question of hating the kids, one of their first jobs is to fix one of the worst secondaries in football history. Whoever it is, they'll have no attachments or reasons to justify Sam Beal or any other rookies from the staff we just fired. As of now Peppers is the only real starter we have in the secondary. Rookies from the staff we just fired??? Gettleman made all of those picks. If he stays he will not be putting premium draft capital (first and second round picks) into the DB position Think he might sign one if the boys let Jones see the market or the Ravens let Peterson test it. They need one more at least. |
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Post by McCherry on Dec 15, 2019 0:27:16 GMT -5
As of now Peppers is the only real starter we have in the secondary. This is flat out wrong. Most of these young guys can play, they need to fix our scheme so they know who to cover. Baker has played lights out the last few weeks. Love has been solid. Beal and Ballentine both have the talent but need time in this system. I agree that Love looks okay. But Baker graded well in one game in a season where he's been ranked dead last among CB's. I'm not saying these kids couldn't become players one day. But a new staff isn't going to come here and simply hand them jobs again. Beal and Baker's painfully slow development are part of the reason people are getting fired. There's going to be a whole new system, no-one knows how our players will fit in. |
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Post by IrishMike on Dec 15, 2019 7:46:48 GMT -5
This is flat out wrong. Most of these young guys can play, they need to fix our scheme so they know who to cover. Baker has played lights out the last few weeks. Love has been solid. Beal and Ballentine both have the talent but need time in this system. Here is the problem. Beal has a considerable injury history. Ballentine already has two concussions. Serious issues considering that they have not had that much playing time. I agree. It is a never ending process. At this time though Ballentine/Beal would be better than "insert random LB here". We need help at LB more than anything on D...imo. |
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Post by jintslifer1 on Dec 15, 2019 7:51:18 GMT -5
True but you have to admit it is actually worse without him. Instead of throwing to the opposite side of the field he is playing. QBs can now throw it everywhere I donāt know if itās worse without him. Havenāt seen it yet. What I have seen is teams, for years, pass at will on us. So Iām not exactly sure how I can distinguish the smell of shit with Jenkins is better than the smell of shit without him. They both smell like shit to me. Thatās damn funny. But true. |
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Post by IrishMike on Dec 15, 2019 7:52:01 GMT -5
This is flat out wrong. Most of these young guys can play, they need to fix our scheme so they know who to cover. Baker has played lights out the last few weeks. Love has been solid. Beal and Ballentine both have the talent but need time in this system. I agree that Love looks okay. But Baker graded well in one game in a season where he's been ranked dead last among CB's. I'm not saying these kids couldn't become players one day. But a new staff isn't going to come here and simply hand them jobs again. Beal and Baker's painfully slow development are part of the reason people are getting fired. There's going to be a whole new system, no-one knows how our players will fit in. Graded well by who? Please don't say PFF. In the last 3 weeks he has been targeted 12 times and given up 2 catches for 32 yards with a QBR of 42 against him. He has been fantastic the last three weeks. I don't think this staff will be fired (maybe Bettcher), but even if they are I think Baker will win the starting CB role because he is a really good player with huge potential. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2019 7:53:02 GMT -5
The Giants secondary have given up almost 2 miles of yards on defense. So when you drive to go pick up milk at your local store just think of our beloved Giants secondary.  |
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Post by IrishMike on Dec 15, 2019 7:56:26 GMT -5
Love is coming on and lets see if Baker can keep getting better his second half is starting to shape up Beal and Ballentine need to have some time to see if they can beat the injury bug. They have three games to prove they can survive. The injury thing is scary, but I think the talent is there. Ballentine reminds me of Webster so much it's not even funny. CB is the hardest position in the NFL to learn other than QB and Bettchers system is even more complicated than a normal system. Here is a snip from an article...
"pattern match coverage assignments vary on each specific play by the position of the ball on the field (near-hash, far-hash, middle of the field), the alignment of the offensive players, and (to some extent) the direction of the offensive players off their stem; these types of variables will determine if the deep Cover 1 safety will shade to one specific side of the field, so boundary corners must know these rules and align themselves accordingly on their respective assignments. "
Now wonder this secondary we completely blowing coverage's early on. The more time they get the better they will play. An entire offseason should do wonders to help their development...staying healthy is another issue.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 15, 2019 12:15:22 GMT -5
Love is coming on and lets see if Baker can keep getting better his second half is starting to shape up Beal and Ballentine need to have some time to see if they can beat the injury bug. They have three games to prove they can survive. The injury thing is scary, but I think the talent is there. Ballentine reminds me of Webster so much it's not even funny. CB is the hardest position in the NFL to learn other than QB and Bettchers system is even more complicated than a normal system. Here is a snip from an article...
"pattern match coverage assignments vary on each specific play by the position of the ball on the field (near-hash, far-hash, middle of the field), the alignment of the offensive players, and (to some extent) the direction of the offensive players off their stem; these types of variables will determine if the deep Cover 1 safety will shade to one specific side of the field, so boundary corners must know these rules and align themselves accordingly on their respective assignments. "
Now wonder this secondary we completely blowing coverage's early on. The more time they get the better they will play. An entire offseason should do wonders to help their development...staying healthy is another issue.
Another guy who is coming on and he is getting snaps in the slot as well as FS is Love he is better then solid. |
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Post by IrishMike on Dec 15, 2019 12:51:38 GMT -5
I agree. It is a never ending process. At this time though Ballentine/Beal would be better than "insert random LB here". We need help at LB more than anything on D...imo. Actual have been saying this for years! You and me and damn near every other smart fan. |
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Post by IrishMike on Dec 15, 2019 12:53:22 GMT -5
Another guy who is coming on and he is getting snaps in the slot as well as FS is Love he is better then solid. I'm a life long Notre Dame fan and a huge fan of Love so I try to not speak too highly. I think Love will be a great safety though. Love, Peppers, Baker will be the start of our best secondary in years. If we get Ballentine and Beal to show up we can turn this into a strength of our team. |
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Post by jb456 on Dec 15, 2019 13:36:14 GMT -5
Why would the secondary look better after losing their best corner? I'm not saying Jenkins was awesome but he has pretty good with the exception of the Evan's debacle... Mike Evans is averaging 17.3 YPC has over 1100 yards receiving so far and has made as big a ādebacleā of 2 other CB this season that he has of Jenkins. Mike Evans is one of the top WR in NFL. If you watched the game, you would be questioning my choice of words. Evans made him his bitch. It was one of the most embarrassing games a corner has had I have ever seen. With that said, I did say Jenkins was the best Giants corner... |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 15, 2019 17:18:21 GMT -5
Another guy who is coming on and he is getting snaps in the slot as well as FS is Love he is better then solid. I'm a life long Notre Dame fan and a huge fan of Love so I try to not speak too highly. I think Love will be a great safety though. Love, Peppers, Baker will be the start of our best secondary in years. If we get Ballentine and Beal to show up we can turn this into a strength of our team. I know it's the dolphins but the kids looked good today and Baker looked good for the 4th straight game. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 15, 2019 17:19:55 GMT -5
Another guy who is coming on and he is getting snaps in the slot as well as FS is Love he is better then solid. I'm a life long Notre Dame fan and a huge fan of Love so I try to not speak too highly. I think Love will be a great safety though. Love, Peppers, Baker will be the start of our best secondary in years. If we get Ballentine and Beal to show up we can turn this into a strength of our team. Love is gonna gonna be a heck of a player for the Giants think they need to give him more work in the slat also. |
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Post by DandyDon on Dec 15, 2019 17:32:56 GMT -5
I'm a life long Notre Dame fan and a huge fan of Love so I try to not speak too highly. I think Love will be a great safety though. Love, Peppers, Baker will be the start of our best secondary in years. If we get Ballentine and Beal to show up we can turn this into a strength of our team. I know it's the dolphins but the kids looked good today and Baker looked good for the 4th straight game. Still a lot of wide open wrs early. Hopefully they will progress to playing well for a full game. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 15, 2019 17:35:41 GMT -5
I know it's the dolphins but the kids looked good today and Baker looked good for the 4th straight game. Still a lot of wide open wrs early. Hopefully they will progress to playing well for a full game. They need a true slot corner Love has done it at a high level in college. Think he might be able to play like Rolle did here in the slot and down in the box as a safety. |
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Post by IrishMike on Dec 15, 2019 18:50:30 GMT -5
I know it's the dolphins but the kids looked good today and Baker looked good for the 4th straight game. Still a lot of wide open wrs early. Hopefully they will progress to playing well for a full game. I'm guessing they were guys assigned to Beal or Ballentine. It is going to be tough sledding until guys get the experience in this system. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 15, 2019 19:35:14 GMT -5
Still a lot of wide open wrs early. Hopefully they will progress to playing well for a full game. I'm guessing they were guys assigned to Beal or Ballentine. It is going to be tough sledding until guys get the experience in this system. The problem has been the slot the whole season Baker was rough to but the slot was and might still over 80% completion percentage. |
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Post by giants38 on Dec 15, 2019 23:01:30 GMT -5
Still a lot of wide open wrs early. Hopefully they will progress to playing well for a full game. I'm guessing they were guys assigned to Beal or Ballentine. It is going to be tough sledding until guys get the experience in this system. There is a system? |
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