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Post by Delicreep on Jan 1, 2020 10:04:36 GMT -5
Absolutely no disputing any of this. Yes, we can. Are you suggesting the reason we lost, and fell to the expectations, expectations of, and I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none, was because of Shurmurs coaching and... running Barkley through a gap his lack of talented offensive line could not create? Yes, we lost not because we gave away every talented player we had, and signed stiffs on the OL...gave away OBJ and the rest, had no talent, rookies everywhere, and expected a rookie QB and Barkley, running away from any gaps, to win? Again, everybody...and I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none....thought we would have a losing season Why so surprised? I knew there was a lack of talent on the O-line Shurmur knew there was a lack of talent on the O-line A blind monkey knew there was a lack of talent on the O-line You seem to think it's good coaching to ignore that fact and just run those plays over and over again. In a lot of places, doing that kind of thing is exactly what gets you fired.
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Post by Delicreep on Jan 1, 2020 10:05:42 GMT -5
Yes, we can. Are you suggesting the reason we lost, and fell to the expectations, expectations of, and I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none, was because of Shurmurs coaching and... running Barkley through a gap his lack of talented offensive line could not create? Yes, we lost not because we gave away every talented player we had, and signed stiffs on the OL...gave away OBJ and the rest, had no talent, rookies everywhere, and expected a rookie QB and Barkley, running away from any gaps, to win? Again, everybody...and I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none....thought we would have a losing season Why so surprised? Shurmur should be a hot commodity on the HC interview circuit then, right? I expect that he will get multiple interviews and will generate a bidding war between multiple teams. He will NEVER get another HC jobHe's in line, right after my niece. Super sweet kid...uses a lot of emojis.
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Post by TEM on Jan 1, 2020 10:06:49 GMT -5
So that is you answer to 7 easy questions I have already show his first 2 seasons at Baylor and Temple to make a definitive hypothesis You obviously have selective reading. I knew you would not answer any of the questions . Because you do not have anything or you would have. Yet you to ask other MB members to answer you questions and chastise them for not. Your selective use of statistics with no accompanying perspective or logic is funny. Pat Shurmur had a career .297 winning percentage but you wanted to keep him. Matt Rhule is a proven CEO leader and a program builder. He has obviously never done this at the pro level, so there is certainly a risk there, but there is a risk with all of these candidates. All have risk Some less than others . This guy is off the scales with risk . CEO HC . What does that mean? Does he delegate responsibility? Is he a micro manager? Is he hands off until necessary Is saying I really don't know so I hire people that do . none of these are attributes you want in a HC. Some keep saying this new CEO HC Buzz word phrase. No one explains what it is This an HC Hands in with players and staff Has high-level knowledge of everyone's job underneath him Is willing to find a common ground with all parties to work with and communicate effectively.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 10:09:51 GMT -5
You're losing the debate...now spinning into semantics. You have edited the post to fit your needs...facts were presented after you asked for ...as you called for them, specifically You brought up Handley vs Shurmur and I explained the factual differences..specifically. You are now suggesting Daniel Jones has suffered immense regression because of the 8 game losing streak. Then you suggest every person on this planet, thought Shurmur should have been fired. I and many others, the others who I assume are not every person on the planet, suggest Jones, lack of talent, young rookies, and get to the fact no other coach might feel comfy with a 2 year window the Giants provide...in actuality, all I see are the usual impatient NY sport fans that want vengeance on their frail mentality, because how dare this rebuilding team be exactly what all these, and I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none, thought we would be. A non playoff rebuilding team with betting odds at 6-10, with Eli Manning ...far worse with a rookie QB Keep trying my impatient emotional NY sports fan So no fact? Not even one...shocking. Because my original post was your contention that Shurmur didn't have enough time to finish the job is as ridiculous as saying Handley didn't have enough time. Listed at least 5 But we're still using this as your fact...I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none. So, let's continue using your fact...I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none, and apply that to the beginning of the year. If, I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none, thought we were going to lose out last year, why not fire Shurmur before we had to endure a season of Barkley in the A gap? Facts you present...I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none. My facts are the same Rookie QB First year players OBJ and many other talented players sent packing Solder not blocking Remmers not blocking OL not blocking Barkley hurt Engram hurt Wide outs out with concussions, and PED problems Dead cap hell No linebackers on a 3-4 Seems my facts suggest lack of talent...and lean towards a bad Dave Gettleman Regarding my facts, I will use yours...I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none, expected at best 6-10...with Eli Manning Can we use Las Vegas as a fact? If they say a 3 point favorite, can we bet on that fact? How about 6-10? I took under.
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Post by Delicreep on Jan 1, 2020 10:12:29 GMT -5
So no fact? Not even one...shocking. Because my original post was your contention that Shurmur didn't have enough time to finish the job is as ridiculous as saying Handley didn't have enough time. Listed at least 5 But we're still using this as your fact...I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none. So, let's continue using your fact...I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none, and apply that to the beginning of the year. If, I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none, thought we were going to lose out last year, why not fire Shurmur before we had to endure a season of Barkley in the A gap? Facts you present...I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none. My facts are the same Rookie QB First year players OBJ and many other talented players sent packing Solder not blocking Remmers not blocking OL not blocking Barkley hurt Engram hurt Wide outs out with concussions, and PED problems Dead cap hell No linebackers on a 3-4 Seems my facts suggest lack of talent...and lean towards a bad Dave Gettleman Regarding my facts, I will use yours...I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none, expected at best 6-10...with Eli Manning Can we use Las Vegas as a fact? If they say a 3 point favorite, can we bet on that fact? How about 6-10? I took under. None of those things are an indicator of Shurmur being a good coach, something he has never shown...ever.
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Post by TEM on Jan 1, 2020 10:15:33 GMT -5
Well, you can all watch a major bowl game today with Matty...Baylor is taking on Georgia in the Sugar bowl... “At the end of the day, I’m never going to be in an arranged marriage,” Rhule told KRZI-AM in Waco, Texas on Thursday, via Manish Mehta of the New York Daily News. “I’m never going to subcontract jobs to the offense and defense. I always want to hire people that believe in what I believe, that are going to do things our way, that are going to believe in process, that are going to be part of a program. I truly believe that programs win.”-Matt Ruhle The problem with group think . There is no voice of reason when the S### hits the fan. That last thing an NFL HC wants is clones of himself. When that happens. Because; if what he believes becomes wrong and he keeps doing it. He has no one to tell him to try a different path. I agree the staff should believe in the process , but if the process goes bad. Yes men are your worst people to surround yourself with.
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Post by roundabout on Jan 1, 2020 10:17:11 GMT -5
So no fact? Not even one...shocking. Because my original post was your contention that Shurmur didn't have enough time to finish the job is as ridiculous as saying Handley didn't have enough time. Listed at least 5 But we're still using this as your fact...I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none. So, let's continue using your fact...I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none, and apply that to the beginning of the year. If, I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none, thought we were going to lose out last year, why not fire Shurmur before we had to endure a season of Barkley in the A gap? Facts you present...I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none. My facts are the same Rookie QB First year players OBJ and many other talented players sent packing Solder not blocking Remmers not blocking OL not blocking Barkley hurt Engram hurt Wide outs out with concussions, and PED problems Dead cap hell No linebackers on a 3-4 Seems my facts suggest lack of talent...and lean towards a bad Dave Gettleman Regarding my facts, I will use yours...I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none, expected at best 6-10...with Eli Manning Can we use Las Vegas as a fact? If they say a 3 point favorite, can we bet on that fact? How about 6-10? I took under. You can give all the excuses you like for Shurmer,The fact is any idiot that watched this guy coach this year could see he wasn't a good head coach.Even Mara figured it out.What does that say about your lame argument? Hmmmm
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Post by TEM on Jan 1, 2020 10:19:18 GMT -5
Listed at least 5 But we're still using this as your fact...I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none. So, let's continue using your fact...I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none, and apply that to the beginning of the year. If, I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none, thought we were going to lose out last year, why not fire Shurmur before we had to endure a season of Barkley in the A gap? Facts you present...I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none. My facts are the same Rookie QB First year players OBJ and many other talented players sent packing Solder not blocking Remmers not blocking OL not blocking Barkley hurt Engram hurt Wide outs out with concussions, and PED problems Dead cap hell No linebackers on a 3-4 Seems my facts suggest lack of talent...and lean towards a bad Dave Gettleman Regarding my facts, I will use yours...I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none, expected at best 6-10...with Eli Manning Can we use Las Vegas as a fact? If they say a 3 point favorite, can we bet on that fact? How about 6-10? I took under. None of those things are an indicator of Shurmur being a good coach, something he has never shown...ever. Those factors all came into play. Why I am staunch in believing . Him being a good or bad HC is undetermined. You cannot ignore the influence those issues had on the season outside of the HC.
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Post by Delicreep on Jan 1, 2020 10:24:37 GMT -5
None of those things are an indicator of Shurmur being a good coach, something he has never shown...ever. Those factors all came into play. Why I am staunch in believing . Him being a good or bad HC is undetermined. You cannot ignore the influence those issues had on the season outside of the HC. And if I had absolutely a single shred of evidence that he was a great HC, then I would want him retained. Here's the thing: he probably will be in the league again very shortly as an OC or QB coach. If there were some magical way to keep him as DJ's QB coach, I would do it. He has not shown himself to be a great HC, which is what I want.
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Post by TEM on Jan 1, 2020 10:25:24 GMT -5
Listed at least 5 But we're still using this as your fact...I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none. So, let's continue using your fact...I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none, and apply that to the beginning of the year. If, I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none, thought we were going to lose out last year, why not fire Shurmur before we had to endure a season of Barkley in the A gap? Facts you present...I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none. My facts are the same Rookie QB First year players OBJ and many other talented players sent packing Solder not blocking Remmers not blocking OL not blocking Barkley hurt Engram hurt Wide outs out with concussions, and PED problems Dead cap hell No linebackers on a 3-4 Seems my facts suggest lack of talent...and lean towards a bad Dave Gettleman Regarding my facts, I will use yours...I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none, expected at best 6-10...with Eli Manning Can we use Las Vegas as a fact? If they say a 3 point favorite, can we bet on that fact? How about 6-10? I took under. You can give all the excuses you like for Shurmer,The fact is any idiot that watched this guy coach this year could see he wasn't a good head coach.Even Mara figured it out.What does that say about your lame argument? Hmmmm The 4 owners in the FO are the problem They scapegoated Gilbride , Fewell TC McAdoo Reese Now Shurmur. Suggesting all of them were the problem . Yet the same exact issues again came into play with each face change. You got to admit , There is a pattern here. Not one thing done so far this offseason (2020) has shown that pattern is going to change anytime soon.
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Post by dream88 on Jan 1, 2020 10:28:24 GMT -5
He took Temple from 2-10 to 10-4 and a perennial Bowl team. He took Baylor from 1-11 to 11-2, now the 7th ranked team in the country. Pretty drastic turnarounds for both programs, I thought it was impressive but that's just me He is still only 53% In temple his first 2 years he had losing records 2-10 6-6 . In Baylor 1-11 and 9-7 So what some of you guys are saying it's ok if the HC has his first 2 losing seasons if it is the guy we want. Well first off, 6-6 isn’t a losing record and he also didn’t have a losing record his 2nd year at Baylor. He took over both programs as 2 and 1 win teams respectively and both of these teams are now suddenly perennial contenders, his team this year was one win away from making the CFP. This is Baylor football. Not Bama, Georgia, or LSU. Baylor. Looking at numbers like the “53%” in a vacuum is shortsighted. The context is huge. The “what has he won?” question is a weird question. If you’re saying because he hasn’t taken the likes of Temple and Baylor football to a National Championship he’s a bad coach, that’s not really a sound argument
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 10:28:32 GMT -5
Yes, we can. Are you suggesting the reason we lost, and fell to the expectations, expectations of, and I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none, was because of Shurmurs coaching and... running Barkley through a gap his lack of talented offensive line could not create? Yes, we lost not because we gave away every talented player we had, and signed stiffs on the OL...gave away OBJ and the rest, had no talent, rookies everywhere, and expected a rookie QB and Barkley, running away from any gaps, to win? Again, everybody...and I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none....thought we would have a losing season Why so surprised? Shurmur should be a hot commodity on the HC interview circuit then, right? I expect that he will get multiple interviews and will generate a bidding war between multiple teams. He will NEVER get another HC job He shouldn't of gotten this job to begin with I've said as much as most the entire board was for hiring him... My point was/is, now saying for the 300th time, as it seems the way you win arguments on this board is not with facts, but in how many times you can repeat your arguments over and over...it's that he deserved another year for many reasons explained, and not because of lack of coaching, cause we did not lose because of that...we lost because we simply have/had no talent. If you wanted him canned this year, why not last year? If you wanted him this year, why not want him expelled when the experts said what all knew, we had a bad team going into the year? Were you expecting his lack of coaching to somehow take this team into a playoffs? It's not really hard to understand my point if you open up your mind, past the off with his head, my emotions have had enough, mentality. Did you and the rest of the mob all of a sudden expect a coach of his caliber to take this gutted and rookie populated team to a playoffs this year? We were a 6-10 betting dog to begin the season...then we went rookie QB...what exactly did you think was going to happen? I'm not surprised at the season and record, at all...I am surprised we didn't do the correct organizational maneuver and keep him for another year, or not hire him when we all seen that bad record in Cleveland, using non facts such as a "it was Cleveland, all coaches suck there...can't count that".... I feel Pat was shafted, yes...but I also feel that the Giants created more future problems by leaning back into the methods of franchises with less then stellar reputations. Soon, it will be coaches hired from the Giants 2 year plans that will have fans saying the same exact thing we did bringing Shurmur in... "it was the Giants, all coaches suck there...can't count that"....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 10:29:12 GMT -5
Listed at least 5 But we're still using this as your fact...I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none. So, let's continue using your fact...I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none, and apply that to the beginning of the year. If, I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none, thought we were going to lose out last year, why not fire Shurmur before we had to endure a season of Barkley in the A gap? Facts you present...I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none. My facts are the same Rookie QB First year players OBJ and many other talented players sent packing Solder not blocking Remmers not blocking OL not blocking Barkley hurt Engram hurt Wide outs out with concussions, and PED problems Dead cap hell No linebackers on a 3-4 Seems my facts suggest lack of talent...and lean towards a bad Dave Gettleman Regarding my facts, I will use yours...I mean absolutely every pundit, expert and commentator on the planet, bar none, expected at best 6-10...with Eli Manning Can we use Las Vegas as a fact? If they say a 3 point favorite, can we bet on that fact? How about 6-10? I took under. None of those things are an indicator of Shurmur being a good coach, something he has never shown...ever. Why did we hire him?
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Post by Delicreep on Jan 1, 2020 10:31:33 GMT -5
None of those things are an indicator of Shurmur being a good coach, something he has never shown...ever. Why did we hire him? Mistake from second one...something Mara has done twice now with the HC hire...3 times if you wanna count him being opposed to TC.
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Post by TEM on Jan 1, 2020 10:31:43 GMT -5
Those factors all came into play. Why I am staunch in believing . Him being a good or bad HC is undetermined. You cannot ignore the influence those issues had on the season outside of the HC. And if I had absolutely a single shred of evidence that he was a great HC, then I would want him retained. Here's the thing: he probably will be in the league again very shortly as an OC or QB coach. If there were some magical way to keep him as DJ's QB coach, I would do it. He has not shown himself to be a great HC, which is what I want. Delli I will say it again . I said undetermined not good , not great, not bad. So right now we are same boat wit the next HC "undetermined " and instead of the one more year that it would have been with Shurmur (2020) . It will take 2 with or 3 with the next HC. I think 3 because Dave will be scapegoated next offseason.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 10:35:10 GMT -5
Shurmur should be a hot commodity on the HC interview circuit then, right? I expect that he will get multiple interviews and will generate a bidding war between multiple teams. He will NEVER get another HC jobHe's in line, right after my niece. Super sweet kid...uses a lot of emojis. Why did the Giants hire him with his losing Browns record? Why did the Giants give him a HC job before your sweet niece? When did you first start complaining about Pat Shurmur being a bad coach? Was it with the Browns? After last year? This year?...when?
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Post by cdngfan on Jan 1, 2020 10:38:44 GMT -5
I can't feel too strongly about either side of the fence with Shurmur.
the 2nd half of this season was meaningless game after meaningless game, and this roster played hard.
I think its under appreciated that we don't have enough QB experience or talent in our passing targets or o-line to counter teams that just keep the box loaded all game. Until one of those three factors change, we're not a hard offense to play against.
But he's a horrible in game manager. At the end of the day, he's got too much experience in the NFL for there to be any reason to mismanage the clock, time outs, challenges. Just Fs across the board.
I don't regret having him as an HC, i think this entire fanbase underestimates the putrid state of the lockerroom DG and PS inherited. Its light-years better.
But to me he's an extremely talented OC (i don't buy the 'bad playcalling' stuff, at all) who's proven that the stuff he can control as an HC (in game management) he just can't handle well, at all.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 10:42:23 GMT -5
Mistake from second one...something Mara has done twice now with the HC hire...3 times if you wanna count him being opposed to TC. So, can you believe the way we fire somebody, after only 2 years, is also important...in regards to how an organization maintains a respected flavor around the league? Taking it another leap...what's the plan on the next hiring? I see this firing the low point...a reaction to a bad decision, and a reaction that has as much negative consequences as the original hiring.
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Post by TEM on Jan 1, 2020 10:51:02 GMT -5
He is still only 53% In temple his first 2 years he had losing records 2-10 6-6 . In Baylor 1-11 and 9-7 So what some of you guys are saying it's ok if the HC has his first 2 losing seasons if it is the guy we want. Well first off, 6-6 isn’t a losing record and he also didn’t have a losing record his 2nd year at Baylor. He took over both programs as 2 and 1 win teams respectively and both of these teams are now suddenly perennial contenders, his team this year was one win away from making the CFP. This is Baylor football. Not Bama, Georgia, or LSU. Baylor. Looking at numbers like the “53%” in a vacuum is shortsighted. The context is huge. The “what has he won?” question is a weird question. If you’re saying because he hasn’t taken the likes of Temple and Baylor football to a National Championship he’s a bad coach, that’s not really a sound argument 6-6 is mediocracy . He has neve won a major bowl. 53% is a hard fact. How is that short sited ? His record in 2 second rate conferences is average. I read a bunch of Bull S$$$ that tries to dismiss hard facts. Here they are again He is 47-42 53% That is in the NFL between 8-8 and 9-7 He has won the Texas bowl beat Vanderbilt. Who cares? Never an NFL OC Never an NFL DC Never been a part of An NFL daft team Has never won anything in the NCAA of substance Big 12- Baylor not a good conference FBS -Temple not a good conference Why if he is so good, is not in the ACC , Big 10 , Pac 12 SEC. Why did the teams in these conferences not want his services after Temple? I has shown a lot of evidence that question his credentials. Not one of you has ever gave a compelling argument on why he will be a good NFL HC. Other than he is a shiny object.
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Post by Delicreep on Jan 1, 2020 10:52:02 GMT -5
Mistake from second one...something Mara has done twice now with the HC hire...3 times if you wanna count him being opposed to TC. So, can you believe the way we fire somebody, after only 2 years, is also important...in regards to how an organization maintains a respected flavor around the league? Taking it another leap...what's the plan on the next hiring? I see this firing the low point...a reaction to a bad decision, and a reaction that has as much negative consequences as the original hiring. It is a reaction to the bad signing; the alternative is to continue down the wrong path and compound that bad decision. I said this to TEM: if you have a losing hand at the poker table and I offer to deal you two new cards off the top of the deck, do you keep your losing cards or do you take a chance with 2 new cards? 100% of the time, you take those 2 new cards. And if you are thinking that I have some new found faith that Mara won't repeat his mistakes...I don't. I am somewhat hopeful that he has considered a different path and we will get a different result. If he hasn't, it will be the same blind luck as the two new cards.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 10:54:26 GMT -5
So, can you believe the way we fire somebody, after only 2 years, is also important...in regards to how an organization maintains a respected flavor around the league? Taking it another leap...what's the plan on the next hiring? I see this firing the low point...a reaction to a bad decision, and a reaction that has as much negative consequences as the original hiring. It is a reaction to the bad signing; the alternative is to continue down the wrong path and compound that bad decision. I said this to TEM: if you have a losing hand at the poker table and I offer to deal you two new cards off the top of the deck, do you keep your losing cards or do you take a chance with 2 new cards? 100% of the time, you take those 2 new cards. And if you are thinking that I have some new found faith that Mara won't repeat his mistakes...I don't. I am somewhat hopeful that he has considered a different path and we will get a different result. If he hasn't, it will be the same blind luck as the two new cards. But, wouldn't you prefer firing a coach the correct way, to keep the organization looking semi sweet, to increase those cards being some new connected paint?
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Post by Delicreep on Jan 1, 2020 11:00:51 GMT -5
It is a reaction to the bad signing; the alternative is to continue down the wrong path and compound that bad decision. I said this to TEM: if you have a losing hand at the poker table and I offer to deal you two new cards off the top of the deck, do you keep your losing cards or do you take a chance with 2 new cards? 100% of the time, you take those 2 new cards. And if you are thinking that I have some new found faith that Mara won't repeat his mistakes...I don't. I am somewhat hopeful that he has considered a different path and we will get a different result. If he hasn't, it will be the same blind luck as the two new cards. But, wouldn't you prefer firing a coach the correct way, to keep the organization looking semi sweet, to increase those cards being some new connected paint? I have no idea how either would work out, but Rhule and McCarthy* seem to be the hottest names out there...both seem to have no issue interviewing with us, as does virtually every other name out there. We seem to look pretty sweet to every candidate out there; the problem is the guy making that selection. *Have a concern about McCarthy now...Browns have lined up a former Packer for the GM roll, so they may make a better offer to him.
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Post by dream88 on Jan 1, 2020 11:20:42 GMT -5
Well first off, 6-6 isn’t a losing record and he also didn’t have a losing record his 2nd year at Baylor. He took over both programs as 2 and 1 win teams respectively and both of these teams are now suddenly perennial contenders, his team this year was one win away from making the CFP. This is Baylor football. Not Bama, Georgia, or LSU. Baylor. Looking at numbers like the “53%” in a vacuum is shortsighted. The context is huge. The “what has he won?” question is a weird question. If you’re saying because he hasn’t taken the likes of Temple and Baylor football to a National Championship he’s a bad coach, that’s not really a sound argument 6-6 is mediocracy . He has neve won a major bowl. 53% is a hard fact. How is that short sited ? His record in 2 second rate conferences is average. I read a bunch of Bull S$$$ that tries to dismiss hard facts. Here they are again He is 47-42 53% That is in the NFL between 8-8 and 9-7 He has won the Texas bowl beat Vanderbilt. Who cares? Never an NFL OC Never an NFL DC Never been a part of An NFL daft team Has never won anything in the NCAA of substance Big 12- Baylor not a good conference FBS -Temple not a good conference Why if he is so good, is not in the ACC , Big 10 , Pac 12 SEC. Why did the teams in these conferences not want his services after Temple? I has shown a lot of evidence that question his credentials. Not one of you has ever gave a compelling argument on why he will be a good NFL HC. Other than he is a shiny object. Why do teams in the NFL want his service then? If he’s not good enough for the ACC, Big 10, SEC, why are several NFL teams knocking at his door? I’ve shown just as much evidence as you, even if you just choose not to acknowledge it. 2 wins to 10 wins at Temple. 1 win to 11 wins and a Top 10 team in the country at Baylor. Drastic turnarounds both under his direction. Meanwhile you‘re just regurgitating the same “53%” and “hasn’t won anything of substance” without any context as if he’s had Alabama and Clemson level talent to work with when he hasn’t had close to it
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 11:22:57 GMT -5
But, wouldn't you prefer firing a coach the correct way, to keep the organization looking semi sweet, to increase those cards being some new connected paint? I have no idea how either would work out, but Rhule and McCarthy* seem to be the hottest names out there...both seem to have no issue interviewing with us, as does virtually every other name out there. We seem to look pretty sweet to every candidate out there; the problem is the guy making that selection. *Have a concern about McCarthy now...Browns have lined up a former Packer for the GM roll, so they may make a better offer to him. I'm just hoping we start giving these new coaches, any new coaches... more than two years on their 5 year deals...Pat's was on a third that was about to have another high draft pick, with Thomas possibly the LT we need, and after a few obvious cuts, near 100 million in a FA shopping spree...I simply can not see the positives of firing coaches after two years, win or lose, as losing was expected with anybody knowing talent... I still believe Pat Shurmur could of corrected many of those in game decisions...that's not fact based, but on the same opinion as saying a Daniel Jones will develop a clock when we get more talent on the offensive line. I'm not sold on any coach...although, after Michigan plays Alabama..... On edit...Rhule needs more control with his staff hiring, and college guys are always huge crap shoots...and another one, established, is headed to the Redskins, when you would "think" the Giants would be perfect for him.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jan 1, 2020 11:23:16 GMT -5
He’s not Pat Shurmur. That’s enough for me.. No No don't go down that road. That's what I said about McAdoo and we wound up with Schurmur. And I was against the Schurmer hire from jump street but I was so giddy to be rid of McAdoo I was happy to get anybody.
So here we are at the same place 2 years later, and around it goes.
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Post by snyder55 on Jan 1, 2020 11:25:06 GMT -5
quality coaching staffs are what can make all the difference more so than having superstars..
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Post by TEM on Jan 1, 2020 11:27:39 GMT -5
6-6 is mediocracy . He has neve won a major bowl. 53% is a hard fact. How is that short sited ? His record in 2 second rate conferences is average. I read a bunch of Bull S$$$ that tries to dismiss hard facts. Here they are again He is 47-42 53% That is in the NFL between 8-8 and 9-7 He has won the Texas bowl beat Vanderbilt. Who cares? Never an NFL OC Never an NFL DC Never been a part of An NFL daft team Has never won anything in the NCAA of substance Big 12- Baylor not a good conference FBS -Temple not a good conference Why if he is so good, is not in the ACC , Big 10 , Pac 12 SEC. Why did the teams in these conferences not want his services after Temple? I has shown a lot of evidence that question his credentials. Not one of you has ever gave a compelling argument on why he will be a good NFL HC. Other than he is a shiny object. Why do teams in the NFL want his service then? If he’s not good enough for the ACC, Big 10, SEC, why are several NFL teams knocking at his door? I’ve shown just as much evidence as you, even if you just choose not to acknowledge it. 2 wins to 10 wins at Temple. 1 win to 11 wins and a Top 10 team in the country at Baylor. Drastic turnarounds both under his direction. Meanwhile you‘re just regurgitating the same “53%” and “hasn’t won anything of substance” without any context as if he’s had Alabama and Clemson level talent to work with when he hasn’t had close to it Because teams every year are drawn to the shiny object in the draft. Without looking at the whole picture . Why wouldn't they do the same with a has done nothing shiny object HC. The difference between me and most. I look at the other side of the coin as well. All he has is won a few games in 2nd rate conferences after that it is all fluff.
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Post by Martin on Jan 1, 2020 11:32:42 GMT -5
He’s not Pat Shurmur. That’s enough for me.. No No don't go down that road. That's what I said about McAdoo and we wound up with Schurmur. And I was against the Schurmer hire from jump street but I was so giddy to be rid of McAdoo I was happy to get anybody.
So here we are at the same place 2 years later, and around it goes.
Absolutely! I was in the same place with McAdoo. Mara has to make the right decision and take his time. I have not been a fan of his (Mara) decision making for a while now but I pray the football Gods are watching over him. This team needs a strong leader in HC.
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Post by Delicreep on Jan 1, 2020 11:35:19 GMT -5
I have no idea how either would work out, but Rhule and McCarthy* seem to be the hottest names out there...both seem to have no issue interviewing with us, as does virtually every other name out there. We seem to look pretty sweet to every candidate out there; the problem is the guy making that selection. *Have a concern about McCarthy now...Browns have lined up a former Packer for the GM roll, so they may make a better offer to him. I'm just hoping we start giving these new coaches, any new coaches... more than two years on their 5 year deals...Pat's was on a third that was about to have another high draft pick, with Thomas possibly the LT we need, and after a few obvious cuts, near 100 million in a FA shopping spree...I simply can not see the positives of firing coaches after two years, win or lose, as losing was expected with anybody knowing talent... I still believe Pat Shurmur could of corrected many of those in game decisions...that's not fact based, but on the same opinion as saying a Daniel Jones will develop a clock when we get more talent on the offensive line. I'm not sold on any coach...although, after Michigan plays Alabama..... Well...I don't watch any college football, so I won't see that game either. I have hesitancy with any college coach - he can grow into the job but should be limited initially, but he will make mistakes as well. Keep him as a HC only initially, and move from there. McCarthy should be past that part of his career, and I hope that concept is something Mara is looking for
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 11:36:18 GMT -5
Nothing, he appears to be a good coach, that is a good COLLEGE coach.....there is nothing to suggest he would be good in the NFL, but then again nothing to say he wouldn’t be. Hiring him would be very risky. Who would be a "non-risky" hire? Belichick.
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