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Post by TheAnalyst on Dec 31, 2019 11:17:59 GMT -5
The Rooney Rule is a National Football League policy that requires league teams to interview ethnic-minority candidates for head coaching and senior football operation jobs. It is sometimes cited as an example of affirmative action, as there is no quota or preference given to minorities in the hiring of candidates.
The question is, does it work?
To this date, there are only 3 minority head coaches in the NFL. And there is only 1 minority GM.
Thats less than 10% of the HCs and less than 4% the GMs.
It seems like when ever a minority is brought in for an interview, most of the time everyone just says its "to complete the Rooney Rule", and another HC is already picked. Perfect example, Kris Richard has an interview set up with the Giants. Does anyone think he is a true candidate to get the job? Or as another poster said yesterday, it is just to get past the Rooney Rule and get to the real choices of McCarthy and Rhule?
I will say, I am white, so maybe I have a different perspective on this as a minority would, but I just dont think this rule works at all. I did hear on TV yesterday they were talking about making it a rule to have to interview 2 or 3 minorities minimum and that would help, but I disagree. Personally I just think its making a mockery of it. Like they have to bring in a couple of minorities to to appease people. Seems ridiculous.
Personally, I feel like if you are a great HC, regardless of color, you would get the job. Maybe thats just me being naive and thinking racism isnt as bad as TV and the media is making it seem, but if a minority HC candidate comes to me and I was a GM or Owner, I would compare resumes and not give a flying crap about race. If a HC can win and motivate, why would it matter? It kinda reminds me of Chris Carter saying the Giants passed on Haskins because they wanted a white QB to be the face of the franchise. Complete nonsense.
Without getting all personal and attacking each other on a somewhat touchy subject, what do you guys think? Does the Rooney Rule work? Or is it just a way to appease people?
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Post by TEM on Dec 31, 2019 11:21:23 GMT -5
it is very binary . Either you can do the job or you cannot. Race has nothing to do with it.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Dec 31, 2019 11:47:03 GMT -5
it is very binary . Either you can do the job or you cannot. Race has nothing to do with it. Thats kinda why I wanted to discuss this. A lot of people DO feel it is partially race related. But does this Rooney Rule work?
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Post by TEM on Dec 31, 2019 11:53:59 GMT -5
it is very binary . Either you can do the job or you cannot. Race has nothing to do with it. Thats kinda why I wanted to discuss this. A lot of people DO feel it is partially race related. But does this Rooney Rule work? I can only look from my perceptive. I am not going to delve into the politics of the rule. I do not want to because politics are pure opinion . I have none on this To me there is only one side of the fence . The Fix the team side of the fence.
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Post by jimmieray on Dec 31, 2019 12:06:17 GMT -5
it is very binary . Either you can do the job or you cannot. Race has nothing to do with it. Thats kinda why I wanted to discuss this. A lot of people DO feel it is partially race related. But does this Rooney Rule work? I had a feeling this might come up, in detail. Seems it is now an obstacle for our team, having to wait on the fellow you mentioned. Was Rivera considered a minority, assuming he is Hispanic? Wouldn't Gettleman be considered a minority, being Jewish?
Sorry, I'm answering questions with questions. No, IMO it does not work.
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Post by giantlegacy on Dec 31, 2019 13:15:41 GMT -5
We are actually interviewing 2 minorities (Biennemy and Richardson)and Biennemy is one of the top candidates..
If anything it makes teams think and not jump on the first guy,in fact Tomlin was a Rooney Rule interview and he blew the Steelers away so much he got the job.
The more people you interview the better chance you find a great coach.
Also widens the net come time to look for assistants as well(Richardson is soon to be unemployed because his contract is done mid January)so even if we dont hire him,we could circle back and see if he wants a job as an assistant Personally my favorite candidate would be a Rooney rule interview,David Shaw
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Post by Morehead State on Dec 31, 2019 17:35:20 GMT -5
I think it helps but there is a long way to go. The % of minority coaches and FO people is very low compared to the % of minority players in the league. Ironically, as I remember, the first hire under the Rooney Rule was by the Steelers themselves with Mike Tomlin. That obviously, worked out very well for them since he's one of the best HC's in the NFL.
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Post by Delicreep on Dec 31, 2019 19:19:33 GMT -5
I think it helps but there is a long way to go. The % of minority coaches and FO people is very low compared to the % of minority players in the league. Ironically, as I remember, the first hire under the Rooney Rule was by the Steelers themselves with Mike Tomlin. That obviously, worked out very well for them since he's one of the best HC's in the NFL. So I like to think that the Rooney Rule kinda churns up options from an under represented group...and correctly does not require a hire. If that process helps move minorities further up the chain, great. With no quotas, there is not a lot of harm being done.
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Post by Delicreep on Dec 31, 2019 19:27:56 GMT -5
The Rooney Rule is a National Football League policy that requires league teams to interview ethnic-minority candidates for head coaching and senior football operation jobs. It is sometimes cited as an example of affirmative action, as there is no quota or preference given to minorities in the hiring of candidates. The question is, does it work? To this date, there are only 3 minority head coaches in the NFL. And there is only 1 minority GM. Thats less than 10% of the HCs and less than 4% the GMs. It seems like when ever a minority is brought in for an interview, most of the time everyone just says its "to complete the Rooney Rule", and another HC is already picked. Perfect example, Kris Richard has an interview set up with the Giants. Does anyone think he is a true candidate to get the job? Or as another poster said yesterday, it is just to get past the Rooney Rule and get to the real choices of McCarthy and Rhule?I will say, I am white, so maybe I have a different perspective on this as a minority would, but I just dont think this rule works at all. I did hear on TV yesterday they were talking about making it a rule to have to interview 2 or 3 minorities minimum and that would help, but I disagree. Personally I just think its making a mockery of it. Like they have to bring in a couple of minorities to to appease people. Seems ridiculous. Personally, I feel like if you are a great HC, regardless of color, you would get the job. Maybe thats just me being naive and thinking racism isnt as bad as TV and the media is making it seem, but if a minority HC candidate comes to me and I was a GM or Owner, I would compare resumes and not give a flying crap about race. If a HC can win and motivate, why would it matter? It kinda reminds me of Chris Carter saying the Giants passed on Haskins because they wanted a white QB to be the face of the franchise. Complete nonsense. Without getting all personal and attacking each other on a somewhat touchy subject, what do you guys think? Does the Rooney Rule work? Or is it just a way to appease people? Let's make him white for a second...Is it in Richards best interest to interview with and network with a teams owner? He stands zero chance of getting this job, but a good interview may well set him up for a job in the future. The fruits of the Rooney Rule may come years from now. Having said that, I also see the flip side.
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Post by cruzsoldier on Dec 31, 2019 21:30:15 GMT -5
To be honest it’s basically a token interview. I would love to witness the whole process but honestly I don’t care what color my head coach or quarterback is I just was the best candidate for the job.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Dec 31, 2019 21:46:05 GMT -5
To be honest it’s basically a token interview. I would love to witness the whole process but honestly I don’t care what color my head coach or quarterback is I just was the best candidate for the job. I honestly think 99% of people feel that way in this business. Maybe I'm wrong....
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Post by Delicreep on Dec 31, 2019 21:56:19 GMT -5
To be honest it’s basically a token interview. I would love to witness the whole process but honestly I don’t care what color my head coach or quarterback is I just was the best candidate for the job. A very fair point. I prefer to look at it as chance to make your case to a GM when he might not otherwise be looking for it.
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Post by TEM on Dec 31, 2019 22:26:37 GMT -5
To be honest it’s basically a token interview. I would love to witness the whole process but honestly I don’t care what color my head coach or quarterback is I just was the best candidate for the job. No one should care.
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Post by Sarcasman on Dec 31, 2019 23:09:36 GMT -5
I think it helps but there is a long way to go. The % of minority coaches and FO people is very low compared to the % of minority players in the league. Ironically, as I remember, the first hire under the Rooney Rule was by the Steelers themselves with Mike Tomlin. That obviously, worked out very well for them since he's one of the best HC's in the NFL. So I like to think that the Rooney Rule kinda churns up options from an under represented group...and correctly does not require a hire. If that process helps move minorities further up the chain, great. With no quotas, there is not a lot of harm being done. I agree. It seems to be about trying to create a little more equally of opportunity without dictating outcomes, which imo is a good approach.
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Post by Parademon1 on Jan 1, 2020 11:08:32 GMT -5
Nope. Just another PC move. Should a minority get a job just based on their skin color or nationality. You pick the best candidate regardless of race, period! Same goes for the military being forced by PC politicians to except women into all male MOS's & elite forces such as the SEALs, Rangers, Marine Force recon/snipers. The standards are lowered which is not fair to the males that have to do more. Same in Law enforcement & Fire dept. Some outta shape female in the NYFD couldn't get a ladder off the vehicle w/o problems, then got hurt & was then collecting workers comp! Many people will die or have died because of these BS PC standards being pushed on the military, the police/Fire dept. God created Men & women for different functions in life. Men for the most part are stronger, faster, quicker & more agile. If women were truly our physical equal, then why don't they compete vs men in sports? The worst NBA team can blow away the best WNBA team by 75, a 120 loss MLB team can destroy the best Women's baseball team but they only can play fast pitch softball. Be it sports, military special ops, law enforcement, fire dept or business , you hire the best qualified candidate regardless of gender, race or nationality, period!
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Post by fifthavephil on Jan 1, 2020 11:34:11 GMT -5
Let's not forget ; Jerry Reese and Reggie McKenzie were let go , after long tenures. Ozzie Newsome , Ravens GM retired . Steve Wilks HC Arizona was let go , after one year. Todd Bowles former Jets HC. Broncos former HC Vance Joseph.
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Post by snyder55 on Jan 1, 2020 11:37:50 GMT -5
the Rooney rule is just something else that people find a way around to suit their needs..
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jan 1, 2020 11:47:23 GMT -5
I agree the Rooney rule doesn't bring immediate results but it can make these candidates upgraded later on or called back for OC's or DC's. At least people are recognized. But to me it makes no difference I'm not hiring a minority coach or GM unless their the best available.
This year I'm really interested in Biennemy of K.C. That offense would look great to me dressed in blue in N.J. And it has nothing to do with the Rooney rule.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Jan 1, 2020 14:00:06 GMT -5
I agree the Rooney rule doesn't bring immediate results but it can make these candidates upgraded later on or called back for OC's or DC's. At least people are recognized. But to me it makes no difference I'm not hiring a minority coach or GM unless their the best available. This year I'm really interested in Biennemy of K.C. That offense would look great to me dressed in blue in N.J. And it has nothing to do with the Rooney rule. So are you saying if there was no Rooney Rule, these teams wouldn't bring in these guys if they were qualified for OC or DC positions? Like they just stumbled on them because they were forced to interview them? Also, why are there no Asian head coaches? No Middle Eastern HCs? No Russian HCs? To me the Rooney Rule seems to only apply to black candidates for some reason. Maybe its because the players are mostly black but Im not sure.
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Post by snyder55 on Jan 1, 2020 16:25:44 GMT -5
short answer is that skin color shouldn't be a reason to not hire a guy or to hire him, qualifications should determine all of it...
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Post by dvision on Jan 1, 2020 16:35:33 GMT -5
I agree the Rooney rule doesn't bring immediate results but it can make these candidates upgraded later on or called back for OC's or DC's. At least people are recognized. But to me it makes no difference I'm not hiring a minority coach or GM unless their the best available. This year I'm really interested in Biennemy of K.C. That offense would look great to me dressed in blue in N.J. And it has nothing to do with the Rooney rule. So are you saying if there was no Rooney Rule, these teams wouldn't bring in these guys if they were qualified for OC or DC positions? Like they just stumbled on them because they were forced to interview them? Also, why are there no Asian head coaches? No Middle Eastern HCs? No Russian HCs? To me the Rooney Rule seems to only apply to black candidates for some reason. Maybe its because the players are mostly black but Im not sure. I surmise because there are very few Asian, Middle Eastern, and Russian players? The Rooney Rule doesn't state you must interview a "black" candidate... it states a "diverse" candidate... that would include the groups you mentioned along with Hispanics, etc....
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Post by TheAnalyst on Jan 1, 2020 17:03:40 GMT -5
So are you saying if there was no Rooney Rule, these teams wouldn't bring in these guys if they were qualified for OC or DC positions? Like they just stumbled on them because they were forced to interview them? Also, why are there no Asian head coaches? No Middle Eastern HCs? No Russian HCs? To me the Rooney Rule seems to only apply to black candidates for some reason. Maybe its because the players are mostly black but Im not sure. I surmise because there are very few Asian, Middle Eastern, and Russian players? The Rooney Rule doesn't state you must interview a "black" candidate... it states a "diverse" candidate... that would include the groups you mentioned along with Hispanics, etc.... Well I know what it says, it's just odd. And that's why I said the last sentence. Not many players. Not all these candidates are ex players though.
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Post by Fletch842 on Jan 1, 2020 17:12:32 GMT -5
The good ole boys network in coaching was so deeply ingrained they had to do something to start opening the doors to minority candidates. They just were not getting any opportunities at all. It may be far from perfect, but I think its still needed.
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Post by Morehead State on Jan 1, 2020 17:25:53 GMT -5
Nope. Just another PC move. Should a minority get a job just based on their skin color or nationality. You pick the best candidate regardless of race, period! Same goes for the military being forced by PC politicians to except women into all male MOS's & elite forces such as the SEALs, Rangers, Marine Force recon/snipers. The standards are lowered which is not fair to the males that have to do more. Same in Law enforcement & Fire dept. Some outta shape female in the NYFD couldn't get a ladder off the vehicle w/o problems, then got hurt & was then collecting workers comp! Many people will die or have died because of these BS PC standards being pushed on the military, the police/Fire dept. God created Men & women for different functions in life. Men for the most part are stronger, faster, quicker & more agile. If women were truly our physical equal, then why don't they compete vs men in sports? The worst NBA team can blow away the best WNBA team by 75, a 120 loss MLB team can destroy the best Women's baseball team but they only can play fast pitch softball. Be it sports, military special ops, law enforcement, fire dept or business , you hire the best qualified candidate regardless of gender, race or nationality, period! There is no requirement to hire anyone based on their skin color in the Rooney Rule. Please try to know what you're talking about in future posts.
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Post by Parademon1 on Jan 1, 2020 22:27:36 GMT -5
Nope. Just another PC move. Should a minority get a job just based on their skin color or nationality. You pick the best candidate regardless of race, period! Same goes for the military being forced by PC politicians to except women into all male MOS's & elite forces such as the SEALs, Rangers, Marine Force recon/snipers. The standards are lowered which is not fair to the males that have to do more. Same in Law enforcement & Fire dept. Some outta shape female in the NYFD couldn't get a ladder off the vehicle w/o problems, then got hurt & was then collecting workers comp! Many people will die or have died because of these BS PC standards being pushed on the military, the police/Fire dept. God created Men & women for different functions in life. Men for the most part are stronger, faster, quicker & more agile. If women were truly our physical equal, then why don't they compete vs men in sports? The worst NBA team can blow away the best WNBA team by 75, a 120 loss MLB team can destroy the best Women's baseball team but they only can play fast pitch softball. Be it sports, military special ops, law enforcement, fire dept or business , you hire the best qualified candidate regardless of gender, race or nationality, period! There is no requirement to hire anyone based on their skin color in the Rooney Rule. Please try to know what you're talking about in future posts.
Ya , so minorities have the same color skin tone as Caucasians? Whatever floats your boat buddy. Is that why Rivera was one of the 1st HCs interviewed, cuz he looks just like McCarthy? If there is no such requirement, why make a dumbass PC 'Rooney rule" in the 1st place?
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Post by Fletch842 on Jan 2, 2020 7:36:48 GMT -5
There is no requirement to hire anyone based on their skin color in the Rooney Rule. Please try to know what you're talking about in future posts.
Ya , so minorities have the same color skin tone as Caucasians? Whatever floats your boat buddy. Is that why Rivera was one of the 1st HCs interviewed, cuz he looks just like McCarthy? If there is no such requirement, why make a dumbass PC 'Rooney rule" in the 1st place? The Rooney rule requires that teams interview candidates. It does not mandate who they hire. I think you are missing the point of the rule entirely.
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Post by Parademon1 on Jan 2, 2020 13:33:19 GMT -5
Ya , so minorities have the same color skin tone as Caucasians? Whatever floats your boat buddy. Is that why Rivera was one of the 1st HCs interviewed, cuz he looks just like McCarthy? If there is no such requirement, why make a dumbass PC 'Rooney rule" in the 1st place? The Rooney rule requires that teams interview candidates. It does not mandate who they hire. I think you are missing the point of the rule entirely. Really! Then pray tell, why are people on this topic just mentioning Black & Hispanic coaches/GMs then? Prior to the "Rooney rules", isn't that what teams did, interview "candidates" & the best qualified "candidate" got the job regardless of race or creed?
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smitty
Special Teams
Posts: 902
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Post by smitty on Jan 2, 2020 14:50:59 GMT -5
The Rooney rule is ineffective. It is a forced contrivance to try to appease the masses that hiring preferences are fair. They’re not.
Just look at the racial demographics of the NFL owners compared to the players and it is obvious.
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Post by jimmieray on Jan 3, 2020 9:06:39 GMT -5
We are actually interviewing 2 minorities (Biennemy and Richardson)and Biennemy is one of the top candidates.. If anything it makes teams think and not jump on the first guy,in fact Tomlin was a Rooney Rule interview and he blew the Steelers away so much he got the job. The more people you interview the better chance you find a great coach. Also widens the net come time to look for assistants as well(Richardson is soon to be unemployed because his contract is done mid January)so even if we dont hire him,we could circle back and see if he wants a job as an assistant Personally my favorite candidate would be a Rooney rule interview,David Shaw I did a little research, and read that the Steelers first interviewed Ron Rivera for the HC position - which technically makes him the required initial Rooney Rule candidate. And why would any successful HC want to be known as that, regardless of his ethnicity? Hispanic is a very broad term, and of course someone considered as that can be quite white - what's the difference between Spain and all the other European countries that would not apply, anyway? The buffoon lawyer Johnnie Cochran was the one to initiate all this, anyway - when there were already black HCs in the league, who were properly promoted by their own merits.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jan 4, 2020 20:14:51 GMT -5
I agree the Rooney rule doesn't bring immediate results but it can make these candidates upgraded later on or called back for OC's or DC's. At least people are recognized. But to me it makes no difference I'm not hiring a minority coach or GM unless their the best available. This year I'm really interested in Biennemy of K.C. That offense would look great to me dressed in blue in N.J. And it has nothing to do with the Rooney rule. So are you saying if there was no Rooney Rule, these teams wouldn't bring in these guys if they were qualified for OC or DC positions? Like they just stumbled on them because they were forced to interview them? Also, why are there no Asian head coaches? No Middle Eastern HCs? No Russian HCs? To me the Rooney Rule seems to only apply to black candidates for some reason. Maybe its because the players are mostly black but Im not sure. There have been teams that have paid a fine and hired the coach they intended with their first interview without interviewing a minority candidate. I think I would bring in minority candidates that I actually want to hire. I wouldn't need a rule to make me. I feel teams interviewed minority coaches that had no intension of even considering them. Which might be more insulting than not interviewing them at all.
Rivera being hired by the Skins would also be considered a minority Head Coach ( you left out Hispanic in your sarcasm ). I believe there are now 3 minority HC's at this point. I have no idea how many OC's and DC's there are. Has the Rooney Rule made this possible or not ? I don't know.
I do believe Pittsburgh was blown away by Tomlin during his interview so I do believe the Rooney rule worked in that case.
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