|
Post by jimmieray on Jan 6, 2020 7:22:27 GMT -5
So are you saying if there was no Rooney Rule, these teams wouldn't bring in these guys if they were qualified for OC or DC positions? Like they just stumbled on them because they were forced to interview them? Also, why are there no Asian head coaches? No Middle Eastern HCs? No Russian HCs? To me the Rooney Rule seems to only apply to black candidates for some reason. Maybe its because the players are mostly black but Im not sure. There have been teams that have paid a fine and hired the coach they intended with their first interview without interviewing a minority candidate. I think I would bring in minority candidates that I actually want to hire. I wouldn't need a rule to make me. I feel teams interviewed minority coaches that had no intension of even considering them. Which might be more insulting than not interviewing them at all.
Rivera being hired by the Skins would also be considered a minority Head Coach ( you left out Hispanic in your sarcasm ). I believe there are now 3 minority HC's at this point. I have no idea how many OC's and DC's there are. Has the Rooney Rule made this possible or not ? I don't know.
I do believe Pittsburgh was blown away by Tomlin during his interview so I do believe the Rooney rule worked in that case.
I would definitely think interviewing without any real consideration is completely insulting. And this isn't like how most other businesses operate, where little is actually known about job candidates - everything these coaches do is on display and record.
Like I mentioned before - Tomlin was interviewed after Rivera, so the Rooney Rule was already satisfied. He would have been interviewed and likely hired by the Steelers, without any rule in place. He is not in any way an example of the rule "working".
|
|
|
Post by ThatGuyRich on Jan 6, 2020 15:32:40 GMT -5
There have been teams that have paid a fine and hired the coach they intended with their first interview without interviewing a minority candidate. I think I would bring in minority candidates that I actually want to hire. I wouldn't need a rule to make me. I feel teams interviewed minority coaches that had no intension of even considering them. Which might be more insulting than not interviewing them at all.
Rivera being hired by the Skins would also be considered a minority Head Coach ( you left out Hispanic in your sarcasm ). I believe there are now 3 minority HC's at this point. I have no idea how many OC's and DC's there are. Has the Rooney Rule made this possible or not ? I don't know.
I do believe Pittsburgh was blown away by Tomlin during his interview so I do believe the Rooney rule worked in that case.
I would definitely think interviewing without any real consideration is completely insulting. And this isn't like how most other businesses operate, where little is actually known about job candidates - everything these coaches do is on display and record.
Like I mentioned before - Tomlin was interviewed after Rivera, so the Rooney Rule was already satisfied. He would have been interviewed and likely hired by the Steelers, without any rule in place. He is not in any way an example of the rule "working".
Oh Thank You jimmieray, I wasn't aware Rivera interviewed before Tomlin. Thought I heard a number of times that Tomlin was the first recipient of the Rooney Rule. But have no idea where.
|
|
|
Post by jimmieray on Jan 6, 2020 15:38:33 GMT -5
I would definitely think interviewing without any real consideration is completely insulting. And this isn't like how most other businesses operate, where little is actually known about job candidates - everything these coaches do is on display and record.
Like I mentioned before - Tomlin was interviewed after Rivera, so the Rooney Rule was already satisfied. He would have been interviewed and likely hired by the Steelers, without any rule in place. He is not in any way an example of the rule "working".
Oh Thank You jimmieray, I wasn't aware Rivera interviewed before Tomlin. Thought I heard a number of times that Tomlin was the first recipient of the Rooney Rule. But have no idea where. I found it interesting, myself. Obviously, some group wants to badly show that the rule works with false information. If I were Tomlin, I'd certainly want that cleared up.
|
|
|
Post by Dogecoin on Jan 7, 2020 15:10:30 GMT -5
I think Marvin Lewis is a good coach and deserves an opportunity outside of Cincinnati. That said it's not fair to pin the weight of discrimination on judge because he's youngish and white. Well never know what factors went into that one hire.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Jan 7, 2020 18:29:40 GMT -5
So we went with the Patriots WR coach over more qualified black candidates and everyone on ESPN is up in arms.
|
|
Shim
Special Teams
Adapt or die.
Posts: 341
|
Post by Shim on Jan 8, 2020 12:14:56 GMT -5
So we went with the Patriots WR coach over more qualified black candidates and everyone on ESPN is up in arms. I'm actually discussing the Rooney Rule tonight with my other show hosts, and that's actually one of my questions: Define more qualified? Is it the years of experience in said coaching, or the accolades and feats that were accomplished during their tenure? So far, a guy with 3 Superbowls and 2 BCS titles under his belt seems more qualified than a guy who has been only a RBs coach and OC for his entire coaching career with maybe 2-3 playoff wins total? It should be a fun show lol.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Jan 8, 2020 12:20:50 GMT -5
So we went with the Patriots WR coach over more qualified black candidates and everyone on ESPN is up in arms. I'm actually discussing the Rooney Rule tonight with my other show hosts, and that's actually one of my questions: Define more qualified? Is it the years of experience in said coaching, or the accolades and feats that were accomplished during their tenure? So far, a guy with 3 Superbowls and 2 BCS titles under his belt seems more qualified than a guy who has been only a RBs coach and OC for his entire coaching career with maybe 2-3 playoff wins total? It should be a fun show lol. By more qualified I was talking about position / title. I dont think the championships are what got Judge the position with the Giants. It seems to be more character. But between guys like Bieniemy who went up the ranks and has been an OC for 2 years on a very successful Chiefs offense (Andy Reid?). Or what Byron Leftwich did in TB this past season as the OC. I think that is what they were talking about. I think it caught a lot of people off guard much like going Daniel Jones over Haskins. Like "Who is this kid? A white WRs coach from NE? Of course..." Which is ridiculous obviously.
|
|
|
Post by IrishMike on Jan 8, 2020 21:27:55 GMT -5
How do we define minority. Flores and Rivera are Hispanic, Tomlin and Anthony Lynn are black.
Here is the thing. Everyone blames the old white owners for this issue. But it's not like black guys are hiring a ton of black guys. Jerry Reese didn't hire any black HCs, Ozzie Newsome didn't either, Rick Smith didn't either, Sashi Brown did, Reggie McKenzie didn't either, Chris Grier didn't either although he did hire Flores. So 5 black GMs most hiring multiple HCs only hired 1 black HC and 1 Hispanic HC. It's almost like they are making their choices on what they think is best and not race.
The argument can be made that there aren't enough black coaches coming up through the ranks though. Shall we pull the numbers from the black HCs around the league to see how many black assistants they are hiring? Nah, those numbers look worse than the GMs.
My point is that you can convince me that an owner is racist. Marge Scott was, the dude from LA in basketball probably was. But you can't seriously think all NFL owners are racist. They are rich and want to stay that way and if a black man can get the job done the best they will hire him. For god sake the Giants of all organizations just had a black GM...suddenly they are racists because they didn't hire black coaches that interviewed (two coaches BTW no one else hired either).
There are racists in the world and it pisses me off that we try to turn non racists things into racism. It seriously detracts from the actual racists in the world.
|
|
|
Post by IrishMike on Jan 8, 2020 21:32:51 GMT -5
As for the Rooney rule itself I don't think it helps anymore. I actually think it could detract from guys because instead of assuming "hey this guy got two interviews for the HC job this year, he might be worth looking at" people instead think "he only got interviewed because of the Rooney rule". It was pretty clear around here many people think that way, I think some teams could think that way too.
|
|
|
Post by Nite on Jan 9, 2020 8:14:46 GMT -5
it is very binary . Either you can do the job or you cannot. Race has nothing to do with it. Ahhh logical and naive..
Not everyone thinks that way as you can see (some of) the discussions here on this board and elsewhere
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Jan 9, 2020 8:33:19 GMT -5
it is very binary . Either you can do the job or you cannot. Race has nothing to do with it. Ahhh logical and naive..
Not everyone thinks that way as you can see (some of) the discussions here on this board and elsewhere
How is it naïve? If Ozzie Newsome walked into the FO of an NFL team the was searching for a GM. Do think that owner or any owner would say no with his credentials because of his skin color? I would say if there were 32 GM openings , he could have his pick at any one of them.
|
|
|
Post by Nite on Jan 9, 2020 8:39:37 GMT -5
Ahhh logical and naive..
Not everyone thinks that way as you can see (some of) the discussions here on this board and elsewhere
How is it naïve? If Ozzie Newsome walked into the FO of an NFL team the was searching for a GM. Do think that owner or any owner would say no with his credentials because of his skin color? I would say if there were 32 GM openings , he could have his pick at any one of them. With Ozzie no..All I have to do is point you towards the insane discussions on ESPN, the twit verse and on various message boards you'll see my point. Some people's minds have been so completely taken over by ideology that they utterly lack the ability to think logically
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Jan 9, 2020 8:52:56 GMT -5
What would be interesting is if there were an established black GM in the league and he has hired 4-5 coaches throughout his tenure, and all of them were black, would that raise an eyebrow?
Probably not is my thinking.
I dont think the Rooney Rule works, but like I said, I'm just a white dude. I cant speak for everyone.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Jan 15, 2020 16:33:23 GMT -5
Welp Steelers owner Art Rooney II says changes will be made to Rooney Rule following recent lack of minority hiring Rooney said there is 'no excuse' for NFL teams not having a diverse pool of candidates in the hiring process "I think where we are right now is not where we want to be, not where we need to be, and we need to take a step back and look at what's happening with our hiring processes," Rooney said. "The first thing we'll do as part of our diversity committee is really review the past season's hiring cycle and make sure we understand what went on and talk to the people involved, both on the owner's side, management side, along as the people that were interviewed. "I think we have to look at is back when the Rooney Rule was past and put into effect in 2003, there was a period there where we did see an increase in minority hiring at the head coach position. And I think over a period of time, there were 10 or 12 minority coaches hired. Since then, that trend seems to reserve itself, particularly in the past few years. So we need to study what's going on, and understand better what's going on and really decide how we improve the situation." www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/steelers-owner-art-rooney-ii-says-changes-will-be-made-to-rooney-rule-following-recent-lack-of-minority-hiring/I wonder when the first "Trumps Fault" comment comes... I have a question, out of those 10-12 coaches hired, how many were due to the Rooney Rule, and how many were successful?
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Jan 15, 2020 16:49:00 GMT -5
no organization with any intelligence is going to pass on a person who is very qualified for a job simply because of the color of his skin or his religious beliefs, it just makes no sense....
|
|