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Post by TCHOF on Jan 14, 2020 16:13:27 GMT -5
Because we fans don't have the kinds of information that those doing the hiring do. You could literally make that exact same argument for the hiring, firing, retention of any coach. We have the same amount of info on him as a DC as we did with Bettcher as a DC. They both had bad units last year. Not true at all. A lot of us are well-versed on the Giants defensive personnel and watched Betcher's shit defenses for two years in order to determine he was a terrible coach. It was not just based upon a perspective-less review of statistics.
How many Dolphins games did you watch last year? How much do you know about the Dolphins defensive personnel?
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Post by trueblueatnyc on Jan 14, 2020 16:19:48 GMT -5
The AHC designation being used by the Giants as a means of blocking MIA from preventing the move would make more sense to me than what you said in the first half of your post. I mean, afterall, Miami is on the east coast, just not the northeast. And I'm sure there are lots of more established assistants that would like to "go home". As much as these coaches are all buddies, they also know how competitive the job is and I can't see a guy like Flores, who isn't on exactly solid footing in his position, being willing to just let go of a great assistant coach that helps him keep his job just for sentimental sake. As I said previously, I meant northeast.
I guess the Miami beat writer was lying then.
Or just parroting a talking point the team put out? Like I said, the assistant HC designation making headway for the team to take Graham away makes more sense than the fluffy stuff you mentioned. Otherwise coordinators making these kinds of lateral moves would be more common.
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Post by trueblueatnyc on Jan 14, 2020 16:23:52 GMT -5
You could literally make that exact same argument for the hiring, firing, retention of any coach. We have the same amount of info on him as a DC as we did with Bettcher as a DC. They both had bad units last year. Not true at all. A lot of us are well-versed on the Giants defensive personnel and watched Betcher's shit defenses for two years in order to determine he was a terrible coach. It was not just based upon a perspective-less review of statistics.
How many Dolphins games did you watch last year? How much do you know about the Dolphins defensive personnel?
I watched probably 7 or 8 Dolphins games this year, and their personnel was sub par. But, this isn't knowing any sort of inside information or anything. It's the same information we had access to with all of our other coaches. Put it this way. If the Redskins today went and did the exact same move, are you talking about how WAS made some significant upgrade to their defensive coaching staff? Or are you questioning what they did?
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Post by TCHOF on Jan 14, 2020 16:39:03 GMT -5
Not true at all. A lot of us are well-versed on the Giants defensive personnel and watched Betcher's shit defenses for two years in order to determine he was a terrible coach. It was not just based upon a perspective-less review of statistics.
How many Dolphins games did you watch last year? How much do you know about the Dolphins defensive personnel?
I watched probably 7 or 8 Dolphins games this year, and their personnel was sub par. But, this isn't knowing any sort of inside information or anything. It's the same information we had access to with all of our other coaches. Put it this way. If the Redskins today went and did the exact same move, are you talking about how WAS made some significant upgrade to their defensive coaching staff? Or are you questioning what they did? I fully recognize that I don't have enough information one way or the other to judge the hire. I did not watch 7 or 8 Dolphins games this year.
I do know that the Dolphins defense was starting 3 players who couldn't even make our shit-ass team: John Jenkins, Calvin Munson and Avery Moss. So I'm not going to pan the hire just based on the performance of Miami's D last year. Just like I didn't call for Betcher to be fired just because our defense performed poorly statistically.
I'm taking a wait and see approach and if I see the same confusion, scheme issues, lack of player development that I saw with Betcher, I'll want this guy gone too. Until then, though, I am taking a wait-and-see approach.
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 14, 2020 20:31:57 GMT -5
You can't judge a DC based on one year of being a DC. There is way too much variance in things. Matt Patricia was the DC of some great teams in NE, was Detroits D all that good this year? No.
IMO Judge is making these hires based on exactly what he said, teachers. Maybe Graham is the greatest teacher in the world but Flores and him didn't set up the right D, or maybe Miami's players were complete trash. I think our D has a ton to build on and with the right coach we can be really good. Did the players from 2006 to 2007 change that much for us? No, but Spags made a huge difference as DC. No clue if Graham is the guy to do this or not, but I like what little I know of his philosophy.
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 14, 2020 20:37:32 GMT -5
I'm taking a wait and see approach and if I see the same confusion, scheme issues, lack of player development that I saw with Betcher, I'll want this guy gone too. Until then, though, I am taking a wait-and-see approach.
This to me was the biggest thing with Bettcher. I defended him more than anyone else around I think but the confusion on this defense was evident game 1 and continued all season. Deandre Baker got much better as the year went on but every week was another guy on the D no knowing who he should cover. You might have the greatest plan in the world but if it's too complicated for your men too follow then it's a crap plan.
I think Everett Withers did a decent job developing the young guys. When they got beat it was the scheme and not knowing what to do, their skill was there though and at times our secondary looked fantastic, especially considering how many rookies we had out there. Hopefully who ever comes in as the DB coach next and Graham and Judge can get these young guys to take the next step.
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Post by TCHOF on Jan 15, 2020 5:30:33 GMT -5
I'm taking a wait and see approach and if I see the same confusion, scheme issues, lack of player development that I saw with Betcher, I'll want this guy gone too. Until then, though, I am taking a wait-and-see approach.
This to me was the biggest thing with Bettcher. I defended him more than anyone else around I think but the confusion on this defense was evident game 1 and continued all season. Deandre Baker got much better as the year went on but every week was another guy on the D no knowing who he should cover. You might have the greatest plan in the world but if it's too complicated for your men too follow then it's a crap plan.
I think Everett Withers did a decent job developing the young guys. When they got beat it was the scheme and not knowing what to do, their skill was there though and at times our secondary looked fantastic, especially considering how many rookies we had out there. Hopefully who ever comes in as the DB coach next and Graham and Judge can get these young guys to take the next step.
Maybe part of it was that Betcher was just not a good teacher. You can have the best scheme in the world, but if you can’t teach it and communicate what you want the players to do, you’re going to have problems, especially with a young team.
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Post by GameTime on Jan 15, 2020 7:42:31 GMT -5
Just read that Graham is not just the DC but the assistant HC as well. That's why the Dolphins could not block the move. thought the thread title changed.... cool.... Once gain Stephen A. will "almost" be happy
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 15, 2020 17:09:38 GMT -5
Maybe part of it was that Betcher was just not a good teacher. You can have the best scheme in the world, but if you can’t teach it and communicate what you want the players to do, you’re going to have problems, especially with a young team. I agree. He had a very veteran filled group with the Colts and then another one with a lot of vets with the Cards. Here he had all rookies and 2nd year guys for the most part. He simply was not the right guy for this job. I think Judge is with his emphasis on teaching, hope the coaches he brings in are the same.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2020 14:51:22 GMT -5
If you think of it in players terms, we see NE get the best out of players no one would ever think; how is it that so many who got to the patriots end up performing so well? theyre part of a system. They dont have to win the superbowl on their own, they just have to adapt to a system and "do their job" within its context.
I think with coaching staffs this is true to some extent, its not always the 'best' guy, its a group of guys who are on the same page working in tandem. if judge is surrounded by coaches who are all working together, the end sum is greater than the whole.
I know next to nothing about Graham; on paper im a bit leery of the hire, but im putting my faith in that judge knows he'll work great with the coaching staff on a whole and there'll be communication.
we'll see.....
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Post by trueblueatnyc on Jan 16, 2020 18:03:15 GMT -5
I don't like the Graham hire for defensive coordinator. I get that he didn't have talent in MIA, but we don't have a lot of defensive talent here either and it wasn't a viable excuse for Bettcher. Also, that the Dolphins basically gave us their blessing to take away their DC on a lateral move tells me Flores wasn't so impressed with him, after seeing him do the job up close for a year. I know Flores and Judge were on the Pats staff together, but you don't see coaches allow other coaches to just take away their coordinators on lateral moves. That's just a huge red flag for me. Other than Judge knowing the guy, I really don't see what else really pops that makes him a great DC candidate.You could say that about every first time DC. Spags was just a DL coach before we hired him. That's true, that certainly made Spags an unknown, just like Graham. Except, we have 1 year of Graham as a DC to judge from, which we didn't have with Spags coming from PHI. I'm not predicting this will be a fail, I hope the guy is great. But, if WAS had made this exact same move no one on these boards would be talking about how WAS fleeced MIA or anything. In fact, we'd be mocking them for "stealing" the guy who ran the 30th ranked defense. Nevermind that these boards were rampant with posts about the need for Judge to be surrounded with experienced coordinators with a history of success. And now with his first coordinator hire we just kinda ignore that that was happening.
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 17, 2020 17:41:13 GMT -5
Just read that Graham is not just the DC but the assistant HC as well. That's why the Dolphins could not block the move. thought the thread title changed.... cool.... Once gain Stephen A. will "almost" be happy He won't be happy. He will make a comment like "sure the black coach can't be the head coach, he can just assist the white man. This is modern day slavery."
The more I see about Graham and the style of defense he employed the more I like this move. Lots of man coverage which will help our DBs.
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Post by TEM on Jan 17, 2020 17:46:23 GMT -5
thought the thread title changed.... cool.... Once gain Stephen A. will "almost" be happy He won't be happy. He will make a comment like "sure the black coach can't be the head coach, he can just assist the white man. This is modern day slavery."
The more I see about Graham and the style of defense he employed the more I like this move. Lots of man coverage which will help our DBs.
Mike the stuff that come out of Smith's mouth. No one can take him for anything but a preforming sports media clown. He is about as relevant to any honest commentary as is leaf blowing in the wind that passes in front of the sun is to a solar eclipse.
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 17, 2020 18:02:23 GMT -5
He won't be happy. He will make a comment like "sure the black coach can't be the head coach, he can just assist the white man. This is modern day slavery."
The more I see about Graham and the style of defense he employed the more I like this move. Lots of man coverage which will help our DBs.
Mike the stuff that come out of Smith's mouth. No one can take him for anything but a preforming sports media clown. He is about as relevant to any honest commentary as is leaf blowing in the wind that passes in front of the sun is to a solar eclipse. Yeah, he is good for a hot take and that is about it.
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Post by DandyDon on Jan 17, 2020 19:37:57 GMT -5
thought the thread title changed.... cool.... Once gain Stephen A. will "almost" be happy He won't be happy. He will make a comment like "sure the black coach can't be the head coach, he can just assist the white man. This is modern day slavery."
The more I see about Graham and the style of defense he employed the more I like this move. Lots of man coverage which will help our DBs.
They certainly couldnt play zone last year...
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 17, 2020 20:22:38 GMT -5
He won't be happy. He will make a comment like "sure the black coach can't be the head coach, he can just assist the white man. This is modern day slavery."
The more I see about Graham and the style of defense he employed the more I like this move. Lots of man coverage which will help our DBs.
They certainly couldnt play zone last year... It really wasn't that they couldn't physically do it, Bettchers system was so in depth that they didn't know who to cover. I don't blame Bettcher because I don't know for sure but it sure seems like they did a poor job teaching the system to the players. Deandre Baker took every first team rep since he got on the team and it took him until week 6 or 8 ish to really start to get the hang of things. IMO that is a failure of coaches to adapt their system or teach their system correctly.
I said all year it reminds me of Corey Webster when he first got here. Stick our boys in man coverage and they will be a much better secondary.
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Post by DandyDon on Jan 17, 2020 22:24:13 GMT -5
They certainly couldnt play zone last year... It really wasn't that they couldn't physically do it, Bettchers system was so in depth that they didn't know who to cover. I don't blame Bettcher because I don't know for sure but it sure seems like they did a poor job teaching the system to the players. Deandre Baker took every first team rep since he got on the team and it took him until week 6 or 8 ish to really start to get the hang of things. IMO that is a failure of coaches to adapt their system or teach their system correctly.
I said all year it reminds me of Corey Webster when he first got here. Stick our boys in man coverage and they will be a much better secondary.
I agree. Our DC needed to dumb it down and he didn't.
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Post by jaymas on Jan 17, 2020 23:18:27 GMT -5
Sit down with Graham. Likable guy.
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Post by weekendwarrior on Jan 18, 2020 1:53:56 GMT -5
Sit down with Graham. Likable guy. this guy seems so dang smart. Not a great speaker but knows his ish. He seems like an idiot sevant with regards to defense. That's just my sense but hope I'm right
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Post by GameTime on Jan 18, 2020 7:19:01 GMT -5
Sit down with Graham. Likable guy. best part...paraphrased "the scheme is based on the players you have"
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Post by TheAnalyst on Jan 18, 2020 11:17:00 GMT -5
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Post by GameTime on Jan 18, 2020 11:23:34 GMT -5
teaching..... preaching....
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