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Post by TEM on Jan 13, 2020 18:55:44 GMT -5
I disagree . Every time JPP and Vernon wend down . We had no one to replace them with . We need depth . Build through the draft. Enhance the roster with FAs. Not practice squad wannabes. The idea of buying a championship is a flawed system. A guy like Yannick is a finishing piece to put your team over the edge for a run. He is not not a roster building piece. This guy is an above average DE that actually is a bad fit in most schemes.. You don't pay this guy this year.He is a good fit for a team like Buffalo or the Ravens..teams with a qb that are good on a rookie deal.. There are big holes on this team that require attention . We have no LB depth. We have subjective secondly depth. We do not have a #2 RB. We do not have a quality returner. We have a 1 2 3 receivers . Who is 4 and 5? We don't have a back up QB . We don't have a center, Not 1 . We need a gunner.
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Post by TEM on Jan 13, 2020 19:02:22 GMT -5
I disagree . Every time JPP and Vernon wend down . We had no one to replace them with . We need depth . Build through the draft. Enhance the roster with FAs. Not practice squad wannabes. The idea of buying a championship is a flawed system. A guy like Yannick is a finishing piece to put your team over the edge for a run. He is not not a roster building piece. I hear ya, but you have the chance of someone going down every year, but I wouldn’t have that stop me from approaching the higher end of the market for a player or two (if the price is right). Not signing a star for an absurd contract just to secure them at whatever price possible or anything, but if it leaves you more than enough money to fill out the roster I’d agree with it 100%. If most teams lose their best player they will suffer, there are rare teams like NE who seem to be able to plug and play people without losing a step, but most teams will seriously feel those effects. Now I’m completely fine going into FA and coming away with strictly solid players and building depth, but if we have the chance to get a very good player and do the same thing I wouldn’t jump at it if I had the choice Exactly why you spend on Depth. Something we got away from after Accorsi and beginning of Reese's time.. We had Strahan JPP, Tuck, Osi, Tollefson for our runs . That is depth. Not 2 guys that when they go down . We have nothing to fill in the gap.
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Post by EliDaGoat713 on Jan 13, 2020 19:04:30 GMT -5
For all of you who don't know who Yannick Ngakoue is, he plays DE for the Jaguars and is currently slated to be a Free Agent. 2019 Stats: 8.0 Sacks 41 Tackles 1 Interception 13 TFL He won't be 25 years old until the end of march, which is super-young for someone entering free agency and would be a great addition to this team considering that we sort of have this youth movement going on here. An apparently he's been posting pictures on Instagram for the past couple of days of LT, so this could be a subliminal way of saying he's interested in joining the Giants. Him and Golden would be a formidable pass rush
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Post by nygfanstrick on Jan 13, 2020 19:17:36 GMT -5
I hear ya, but you have the chance of someone going down every year, but I wouldn’t have that stop me from approaching the higher end of the market for a player or two (if the price is right). Not signing a star for an absurd contract just to secure them at whatever price possible or anything, but if it leaves you more than enough money to fill out the roster I’d agree with it 100%. If most teams lose their best player they will suffer, there are rare teams like NE who seem to be able to plug and play people without losing a step, but most teams will seriously feel those effects. Now I’m completely fine going into FA and coming away with strictly solid players and building depth, but if we have the chance to get a very good player and do the same thing I wouldn’t jump at it if I had the choice Exactly why you spend on Depth. Something we got away from after Accorsi and beginning of Reese's time.. We had Strahan JPP, Tuck, Osi, Tollefson for our runs . That is depth. Not 2 guys that when they go down . We have nothing to fill in the gap. that was a rarity that we were fortunate to have 3 pro bowl caliber edge guys on the team at the same time. Carter and Ximines have more than enough talent to be solid depth at that position. Hypothetically speaking Yannick, high draft pick or other FA signing under the radar like Golden was, Ximines, and Carter is a solid group at that position. We have high picks in rounds 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, and 7 with late picks in round 3 with 2 other 7th round picks IIRC. That with the cap space we have should allow us to get a lot of needs off the board and depth. I’m not even saying we have to sign him, even someone like Golden coming back would be a good move, and cheaper, but we have to spend money somewhere. Still have to have legit talent to do anything significant. Depth only gets you so far but is critical I agree.
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Post by TEM on Jan 13, 2020 19:20:58 GMT -5
Exactly why you spend on Depth. Something we got away from after Accorsi and beginning of Reese's time.. We had Strahan JPP, Tuck, Osi, Tollefson for our runs . That is depth. Not 2 guys that when they go down . We have nothing to fill in the gap. that was a rarity that we were fortunate to have 3 pro bowl caliber edge guys on the team at the same time. Carter and Ximines have more than enough talent to be solid depth at that position. Hypothetically speaking Yannick, high draft pick or other FA signing under the radar like Golden was, Ximines, and Carter is a solid group at that position. We have high picks in rounds 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, and 7 with late picks in round 3 with 2 other 7th round picks IIRC. That with the cap space we have should allow us to get a lot of needs off the board and depth. I’m not even saying we have to sign him, even someone like Golden coming back would be a good move, and cheaper, but we have to spend money somewhere. Still have to have legit talent to do anything significant. Depth only gets you so far but is critical I agree. I agree I would rather have Golden than Yannick. He is part of the future.
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Post by nygfanstrick on Jan 13, 2020 19:36:26 GMT -5
that was a rarity that we were fortunate to have 3 pro bowl caliber edge guys on the team at the same time. Carter and Ximines have more than enough talent to be solid depth at that position. Hypothetically speaking Yannick, high draft pick or other FA signing under the radar like Golden was, Ximines, and Carter is a solid group at that position. We have high picks in rounds 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, and 7 with late picks in round 3 with 2 other 7th round picks IIRC. That with the cap space we have should allow us to get a lot of needs off the board and depth. I’m not even saying we have to sign him, even someone like Golden coming back would be a good move, and cheaper, but we have to spend money somewhere. Still have to have legit talent to do anything significant. Depth only gets you so far but is critical I agree. I agree I would rather have Golden than Yannick. He is part of the future. I’d love to bring him back. Played hard as hell against the run and pass. Should be quite good value too. The ACL is something to keep in mind when committing to a long term deal, but I really like how he plays the game
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 13, 2020 19:42:56 GMT -5
that was a rarity that we were fortunate to have 3 pro bowl caliber edge guys on the team at the same time. Carter and Ximines have more than enough talent to be solid depth at that position. Hypothetically speaking Yannick, high draft pick or other FA signing under the radar like Golden was, Ximines, and Carter is a solid group at that position. We have high picks in rounds 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, and 7 with late picks in round 3 with 2 other 7th round picks IIRC. That with the cap space we have should allow us to get a lot of needs off the board and depth. I’m not even saying we have to sign him, even someone like Golden coming back would be a good move, and cheaper, but we have to spend money somewhere. Still have to have legit talent to do anything significant. Depth only gets you so far but is critical I agree. I agree I would rather have Golden than Yannick. He is part of the future. Yep,much more value for the buck
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 19:51:08 GMT -5
He's actually a really good player. if it was a choice between him and Williams.....I would go for Ngakoue easily.
So basically you are throwing away our 2020 3rds round pick because signing this guy and letting Williams walk is a lateral move that cancels out a potential 2021 comp pick.. Not a fan Plus, not the same player. Ngakoue is more a 4-3 DE...and not that great against the run. Williams is a 3-4 DE...although, if we go 4-3... However, if we stay 3-4...Clowney is the pass rusher that fits. ...just want to add, we will have 90 million after this year...after a few as expected releases...where are we going to put that money? A money market fund? When we signed Solder, we all excused that crap signing as the "best" player available, we had to pay up...and he was average at best...now we have actual talents out there, pass rushers, and we're now going frugal? Williams is more similar to potential UFA Chris Jones of the Chiefs...and Jones gets home a lot more. Hell, sign them all, Ngakoue, Chris Jones, Clowney and Williams...oh, and Golden.
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Post by moecoastie on Jan 13, 2020 20:05:43 GMT -5
So basically you are throwing away our 2020 3rds round pick because signing this guy and letting Williams walk is a lateral move that cancels out a potential 2021 comp pick.. Not a fan Plus, not the same player. Ngakoue is more a 4-3 DE...and not that great against the run. Williams is a 3-4 DE...although, if we go 4-3... However, if we stay 3-4...Clowney is the pass rusher that fits. ...just want to add, we will have 90 million after this year...after a few as expected releases...where are we going to put that money? A money market fund? When we signed Solder, we all excused that crap signing as the "best" player available, we had to pay up...and he was average at best...now we have actual talents out there, pass rushers, and we're now going frugal? Williams is more similar to potential UFA Chris Jones of the Chiefs...and Jones gets home a lot more. Hell, sign them all, Ngakoue, Chris Jones, Clowney and Williams...oh, and Golden. Respectfully disagree. Dont get me wrong, Chris Jones is a valuable player as well but they have different games. Jones is not even close to Williams vs the run. Williams is more violent in his play. I also feel Jones benefits greatly from the KC style offense where its basically a shootout every game.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 20:09:23 GMT -5
Plus, not the same player. Ngakoue is more a 4-3 DE...and not that great against the run. Williams is a 3-4 DE...although, if we go 4-3... However, if we stay 3-4...Clowney is the pass rusher that fits. ...just want to add, we will have 90 million after this year...after a few as expected releases...where are we going to put that money? A money market fund? When we signed Solder, we all excused that crap signing as the "best" player available, we had to pay up...and he was average at best...now we have actual talents out there, pass rushers, and we're now going frugal? Williams is more similar to potential UFA Chris Jones of the Chiefs...and Jones gets home a lot more. Hell, sign them all, Ngakoue, Chris Jones, Clowney and Williams...oh, and Golden. Respectfully disagree. Dont get me wrong, Chris Jones is a valuable player as well but they have different games. Jones is not even close to Williams vs the run. Williams is more violent in his play. I also feel Jones benefits greatly from the KC style offense where its basically a shootout every game. I was just pointing out positional wise ... 3-4 DE's....Jones IMHO the superior talent
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Post by McCherry on Jan 13, 2020 20:20:12 GMT -5
I agree I would rather have Golden than Yannick. He is part of the future. Yep,much more value for the buck Golden and Yannick aren’t on the same continent in terms of talent. I doubt they’ll even make him an offer, Ximines is ready to take over at a much lower salary.
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Post by fifthavephil on Jan 13, 2020 20:35:10 GMT -5
Of course he does. The Giants will have over $60 million in cap space. Now saying that he will give us instant credibility as a pass rusher. And is only 25 years old.. The many questions is will Jacksonville franchise him? And if not how much will it cost to sign him? Exactly what came to my mind.
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Post by stroswift10nyg on Jan 13, 2020 21:00:39 GMT -5
If this is true then they need to get it done. He's a Stud.
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Post by stroswift10nyg on Jan 13, 2020 21:13:00 GMT -5
has deff worth it. 3-4 defensive fit to.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 13, 2020 21:53:13 GMT -5
has deff worth it. 3-4 defensive fit to. So you are going to justify paying a Vernon type player top money by showing a play where he beats a backup?
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Post by stroswift10nyg on Jan 13, 2020 21:57:28 GMT -5
has deff worth it. 3-4 defensive fit to. So you are going to justify paying a Vernon type player top money by showing a play where he beats a backup? He's better than Vernon man...so what free agent do you want if available because the Giants need a pass rusher? He's way better than Golden to.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 13, 2020 22:02:47 GMT -5
So you are going to justify paying a Vernon type player top money by showing a play where he beats a backup? He's better than Vernon man...so what free agent do you want if available because the Giants need a pass rusher? Resign Golden Resign Williams Dante Fowler had 11 sacks and will come cheaper I'd prefer not to buy my pass rush like 2016 just because "we need" If anything I'd ra6her pay a young vet like Byron Jones to help stabilize and add some talent to a very young secondary We sign this guy for 18 million a year and he gets 9 sacks in 2020 the same people that are "SIGN HIM YKU STOOOOOOOPID INGRATE " will be yelling "FIRE GETTLEMAN FOR THAT STOOOOOOOPID CONTRACT "
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Post by stroswift10nyg on Jan 13, 2020 22:05:39 GMT -5
He's better than Vernon man...so what free agent do you want if available because the Giants need a pass rusher? Resign Golden Resign Williams Dante Fowler had 11 sacks and will come cheaper I'd prefer not to buy my pass rush like 2016 just because "we need" If anything I'd ra6her pay a young vet like Byron Jones to help stabilize and add some talent to a very young secondary We sign this guy for 18 million a year and he gets 9 sacks in 2020 the same people that are "SIGN HIM YKU STOOOOOOOPID INGRATE " will be yelling "FIRE GETTLEMAN FOR THAT STOOOOOOOPID CONTRACT " lol I mean all these guys are gonna want to get paid but good point. Yannick would still be worth it.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 13, 2020 22:12:00 GMT -5
Resign Golden Resign Williams Dante Fowler had 11 sacks and will come cheaper I'd prefer not to buy my pass rush like 2016 just because "we need" If anything I'd ra6her pay a young vet like Byron Jones to help stabilize and add some talent to a very young secondary We sign this guy for 18 million a year and he gets 9 sacks in 2020 the same people that are "SIGN HIM YKU STOOOOOOOPID INGRATE " will be yelling "FIRE GETTLEMAN FOR THAT STOOOOOOOPID CONTRACT " lol I mean all these guys are gonna want to get paid but good point. This guy is a finishing piece signing (like I said above..Buffalo)for a team that has a good qb on a rookie deal that already has a bunch of pieces in place where he doesn't have to be the savior I mean if he wants to come here so bad,maybe he should take a 10 million dollar a year deal with a 5 million dollar bonus if get gets to 10 sacks and 1 million per date bonus after.
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Post by thetruth on Jan 13, 2020 22:13:48 GMT -5
He's better than Vernon man...so what free agent do you want if available because the Giants need a pass rusher? Resign Golden Resign Williams Dante Fowler had 11 sacks and will come cheaper I'd prefer not to buy my pass rush like 2016 just because "we need" If anything I'd ra6her pay a young vet like Byron Jones to help stabilize and add some talent to a very young secondary We sign this guy for 18 million a year and he gets 9 sacks in 2020 the same people that are "SIGN HIM YKU STOOOOOOOPID INGRATE " will be yelling "FIRE GETTLEMAN FOR THAT STOOOOOOOPID CONTRACT " Wait, resign Golden and Williams for a combined ~$30M/year to recreate the same garbage pass rush we had this year? Interesting. Yannick is a much better pass rusher than Golden. Lets not boxscore scout
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Post by stroswift10nyg on Jan 13, 2020 22:14:50 GMT -5
I hear ya, but you have the chance of someone going down every year, but I wouldn’t have that stop me from approaching the higher end of the market for a player or two (if the price is right). Not signing a star for an absurd contract just to secure them at whatever price possible or anything, but if it leaves you more than enough money to fill out the roster I’d agree with it 100%. If most teams lose their best player they will suffer, there are rare teams like NE who seem to be able to plug and play people without losing a step, but most teams will seriously feel those effects. Now I’m completely fine going into FA and coming away with strictly solid players and building depth, but if we have the chance to get a very good player and do the same thing I wouldn’t jump at it if I had the choice Exactly why you spend on Depth. Something we got away from after Accorsi and beginning of Reese's time.. We had Strahan JPP, Tuck, Osi, Tollefson for our runs . That is depth. Not 2 guys that when they go down . We have nothing to fill in the gap. Bleesed enough that they were backups that turned into All Stars. That dont happen much lol.
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nyg2
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Post by nyg2 on Jan 13, 2020 22:22:01 GMT -5
I disagree . Every time JPP and Vernon wend down . We had no one to replace them with . We need depth . Build through the draft. Enhance the roster with FAs. Not practice squad wannabes. The idea of buying a championship is a flawed system. A guy like Yannick is a finishing piece to put your team over the edge for a run. He is not not a roster building piece. Yes, in theory you want to "build through the draft". It sounds good, it really does, but the reality is that's not how teams are now built. You need a mixture of top-tier talent acquired via free agency or trade and then you need to hit on your day 1 and 2 picks. Coaching staff and FO don't have 4-7 years to wait and see the talent they drafted develop into perennial players in order to make a run and it's a bit naive to assume that all of your picks that you drafted will turn out to be starters or even competent backups. In today's league you need talent it doesn't matter how you acquire it as long as your team is winning football games.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 22:24:34 GMT -5
Buy draft picks!
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 13, 2020 22:27:23 GMT -5
Buy draft picks! Can we find a way to do this
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Post by DandyDon on Jan 13, 2020 22:58:18 GMT -5
I disagree . Every time JPP and Vernon wend down . We had no one to replace them with . We need depth . Build through the draft. Enhance the roster with FAs. Not practice squad wannabes. The idea of buying a championship is a flawed system. A guy like Yannick is a finishing piece to put your team over the edge for a run. He is not not a roster building piece. Yes, in theory you want to "build through the draft". It sounds good, it really does, but the reality is that's not how teams are now built. You need a mixture of top-tier talent acquired via free agency or trade and then you need to hit on your day 1 and 2 picks. Coaching staff and FO don't have 4-7 years to wait and see the talent they drafted develop into perennial players in order to make a run and it's a bit naive to assume that all of your picks that you drafted will turn out to be starters or even competent backups. In today's league you need talent it doesn't matter how you acquire it as long as your team is winning football games. BB has been winning for years finding talent where he can (both FA and draft), teaching them what they need to know, and adjusting his schemes according to who he has. I'm hoping the Judge does the same. It's hard to imagine him doing worse than the past 8 years or so.
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Post by lt56 on Jan 14, 2020 1:39:52 GMT -5
He is going to be way too costly for a team with a lot of Cap Space but a lot of Needs. He is getting a Frank Clark type of contract for sure and you seen Yesterday vs the Texans why guys like Clark was given $20 Million Per. Also think we can find young edge rushers later in the draft while continuing to develop the young guys we already have in Lorenzo Carter and Oshane Ximines
Take the Raiders for example who found Maxx Crosby in the 4th Round out of Eastern Michigan who had 10 Sacks and is way better than the guy they took in the 1st Round Clelin Ferrell. Yannick himself was a 3rd Round Pick!
Don't get me wrong, I would 100% Support if the Giants Decided to Pay Him. He is a Athletic Freak of a Edge Rusher, so explosive and fast off that Edge
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Post by jimmieray on Jan 14, 2020 6:30:42 GMT -5
has deff worth it. 3-4 defensive fit to. So you are going to justify paying a Vernon type player top money by showing a play where he beats a backup? Looking into this guy, he appears a bit undersized like Vernon for the position. But in addition to the decent sack totals, he caused quite a few fumbles. That's worth more than a sack, to me. What we saw from Vernon was fairly consistent pressure, but hardly ever fully getting there.
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Post by TEM on Jan 14, 2020 8:15:16 GMT -5
I disagree . Every time JPP and Vernon wend down . We had no one to replace them with . We need depth . Build through the draft. Enhance the roster with FAs. Not practice squad wannabes. The idea of buying a championship is a flawed system. A guy like Yannick is a finishing piece to put your team over the edge for a run. He is not not a roster building piece. Yes, in theory you want to "build through the draft". It sounds good, it really does, but the reality is that's not how teams are now built. You need a mixture of top-tier talent acquired via free agency or trade and then you need to hit on your day 1 and 2 picks. Coaching staff and FO don't have 4-7 years to wait and see the talent they drafted develop into perennial players in order to make a run and it's a bit naive to assume that all of your picks that you drafted will turn out to be starters or even competent backups. In today's league you need talent it doesn't matter how you acquire it as long as your team is winning football games. Most teams are built through the draft And add finishing pieces to give them a push . The Titans, KC, GB, the core all built with draft picks.
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Post by TEM on Jan 14, 2020 8:24:44 GMT -5
Exactly why you spend on Depth. Something we got away from after Accorsi and beginning of Reese's time.. We had Strahan JPP, Tuck, Osi, Tollefson for our runs . That is depth. Not 2 guys that when they go down . We have nothing to fill in the gap. Bleesed enough that they were backups that turned into All Stars. That dont happen much lol. Yo can spin it, but it was building depth , Not one of them was a practice squad " I hope he pans out " player. You win with ta deep roster. Spending 60-70 million on a few players is a disaster waiting to happen. A: You have no future money to re-sign draft picks. B You end up with a quarter of the team taking up two thirds of the cap space. I will say it again Yannick is a finishing piece . Not a roster builder. He is a roster killer.
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Post by jimmieray on Jan 14, 2020 8:25:33 GMT -5
Yes, in theory you want to "build through the draft". It sounds good, it really does, but the reality is that's not how teams are now built. You need a mixture of top-tier talent acquired via free agency or trade and then you need to hit on your day 1 and 2 picks. Coaching staff and FO don't have 4-7 years to wait and see the talent they drafted develop into perennial players in order to make a run and it's a bit naive to assume that all of your picks that you drafted will turn out to be starters or even competent backups. In today's league you need talent it doesn't matter how you acquire it as long as your team is winning football games. Most teams are built through the draft And add finishing pieces to give them a push . The Titans, KC, GB, the core all built with draft picks. Ideally, sure. But other than Jones with the first pick, last year's draft was very heavy on the defensive side. Now this upcoming draft, I would expect to go heavier on the offensive side. And Gettleman will be under heavy pressure to get that O-line finally right, with 3 positions to fill. It would seem defensive front 7 personnel additions will come via FA or extending contracts, and there will finally be cap space to do that.
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