mj312
Special Teams
Posts: 1,131
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Post by mj312 on Jan 16, 2020 16:33:23 GMT -5
I'd rather pay the extra money to have clowney .. he's a great pass rusher and can stop the run . There's no way im giving Williams big money . He just didn't make that much of a difference .
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Post by allnygin on Jan 16, 2020 17:10:50 GMT -5
H'es a very good "DT" he brings a lot to the table at the position, anyone who disagrees is foolish, but at the same time how much is too much? It'll be interesting to see how this progresses this offseason .
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Post by thetruth on Jan 16, 2020 17:43:51 GMT -5
As it turns out Leonard Williams was actually very good at rushing the passer this year, that skill just didn't show up in the sacks.
He was 13th of 87 interior DL in pressure rate and he was #1 IDL in QB hits (19). It is a huge risk giving up a 3rd for him on a contract year, but if we can sign him for a decent price he can certainly help this D produce more pressure on the QB.
PFF stats favorable for Giants players, the forum reaction : "This player is great!" PFF stats unfavorable for Giants players, the forum reaction: "THESE BRTISH DUDES DONT KNOW ANYTHING" I actually enjoy this dynamic quite a bit. Let me ask you this, whos a better pass rusher, OV or Williams? If I recall Giants fans felt we overpaid for him. Well? If "almost sacks" didn't matter before they sure as heck shouldn't matter now
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Post by thetruth on Jan 16, 2020 17:49:39 GMT -5
Who is better? Snacks or Williams? Snacks just signed an 11.5 million dollar extension so the answer to the above question should give everyone a perspective to Williams value. I'm thinking he gets something over $13 million a year minimum.. Snacks is older, but was/is always the better player. I think Williams gets close to $15M/year on the open market. DG, what say you?
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Post by moecoastie on Jan 16, 2020 17:51:08 GMT -5
As it turns out Leonard Williams was actually very good at rushing the passer this year, that skill just didn't show up in the sacks.
He was 13th of 87 interior DL in pressure rate and he was #1 IDL in QB hits (19). It is a huge risk giving up a 3rd for him on a contract year, but if we can sign him for a decent price he can certainly help this D produce more pressure on the QB.
PFF stats favorable for Giants players, the reaction : "This player is great!" PFF stats unfavorable for Giants players, the reaction: "THESE BRTISH DUDES DONT KNOW ANYTHING" I actually enjoy this dynamic quite a bit. Let me ask you this, whos a better pass rusher, OV or Williams? If I recall Giants fans felt we overpaid for him. Well? If "almost sacks" didn't matter before they sure as heck shouldn't matter now I dont give a rip about what PFF says OV plays a different position than LW. Why are you even comparing their production? Maybe you dont know they play different positions so consider yourself informed now.
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Post by thetruth on Jan 16, 2020 17:56:45 GMT -5
PFF stats favorable for Giants players, the reaction : "This player is great!" PFF stats unfavorable for Giants players, the reaction: "THESE BRTISH DUDES DONT KNOW ANYTHING" I actually enjoy this dynamic quite a bit. Let me ask you this, whos a better pass rusher, OV or Williams? If I recall Giants fans felt we overpaid for him. Well? If "almost sacks" didn't matter before they sure as heck shouldn't matter now I dont give a rip about what PFF says OV plays a different position than LW. Why are you even comparing their production? Maybe you dont know they play different positions so consider yourself informed now. Im bringing this up because universally, Giants fans thought OV was a reach signing. Well? he certainly brought a lot more to the table than Williams, in every facet. I know they play different positions, even though technically both play DE, but ill give you that. Also, one of the players mentioned above can effectively play 9, 7, and 5 techs. Not to mention a rush OLB. Want to guess which one that is? (hint: we never had to trade draft capital for him before we signed him!)
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Post by McCherry on Jan 16, 2020 18:00:18 GMT -5
As it turns out Leonard Williams was actually very good at rushing the passer this year, that skill just didn't show up in the sacks.
He was 13th of 87 interior DL in pressure rate and he was #1 IDL in QB hits (19). It is a huge risk giving up a 3rd for him on a contract year, but if we can sign him for a decent price he can certainly help this D produce more pressure on the QB.
PFF stats favorable for Giants players, the forum reaction : "This player is great!" PFF stats unfavorable for Giants players, the forum reaction: "THESE BRTISH DUDES DONT KNOW ANYTHING" I actually enjoy this dynamic quite a bit. Let me ask you this, whos a better pass rusher, OV or Williams? If I recall Giants fans felt we overpaid for him. Well? If "almost sacks" didn't matter before they sure as heck shouldn't matter now They play 2 completely different positions with different assignments and different expectations.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 16, 2020 18:12:09 GMT -5
PFF stats favorable for Giants players, the forum reaction : "This player is great!" PFF stats unfavorable for Giants players, the forum reaction: "THESE BRTISH DUDES DONT KNOW ANYTHING" I actually enjoy this dynamic quite a bit. Let me ask you this, whos a better pass rusher, OV or Williams? If I recall Giants fans felt we overpaid for him. Well? If "almost sacks" didn't matter before they sure as heck shouldn't matter now They play 2 completely different positions with different assignments and different expectations. Don't bother with logic
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Post by moecoastie on Jan 16, 2020 18:15:30 GMT -5
I dont give a rip about what PFF says OV plays a different position than LW. Why are you even comparing their production? Maybe you dont know they play different positions so consider yourself informed now. Im bringing this up because universally, Giants fans thought OV was a reach signing. Well? he certainly brought a lot more to the table than Williams, in every facet. I know they play different positions, even though technically both play DE, but ill give you that. Also, one of the players mentioned above can effectively play 9, 7, and 5 techs. Not to mention a rush OLB. Want to guess which one that is? (hint: we never had to trade draft capital for him before we signed him!) Yes, OV can play the 9,7,and 5 tech. Which is totally different than LW playing the 1, 3, and 5. Yes, they are both considered DEs but a DE in the 3-4 (stopping the run and pushing the middle of the pocket) has completely different responsibilities than a DE in the 4-3 (setting the edge and sacks). Youre comparing different positions with different responsibilities. Is LW a passrusher? NO! he plays a different position than someone who normally would be considered a passrusher. WHY ARE YOU EVEN COMPARING THE TWO?!?!? And you have no clue what was needed to secure contractual rights to LW. Someone else could have done a similar trade with the Jets. We dont know what he would get if he actually made it to FA but theoretically the NYG could save millions per year but locking him up prior to him reaching FA. YOU DONT KNOW...so please trash that line of thinking...at least until after we see what his contract is.
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Post by thetruth on Jan 16, 2020 18:24:23 GMT -5
Im bringing this up because universally, Giants fans thought OV was a reach signing. Well? he certainly brought a lot more to the table than Williams, in every facet. I know they play different positions, even though technically both play DE, but ill give you that. Also, one of the players mentioned above can effectively play 9, 7, and 5 techs. Not to mention a rush OLB. Want to guess which one that is? (hint: we never had to trade draft capital for him before we signed him!) Yes, OV can play the 9,7,and 5 tech. Which is totally different than LW playing the 1, 3, and 5. Yes, they are both considered DEs but a DE in the 3-4 (stopping the run and pushing the middle of the pocket) has completely different responsibilities than a DE in the 4-3 (setting the edge and sacks). Youre comparing different positions with different responsibilities. If you'd read my post I gave that to you. They play different positions. Im talking about value. Did we overpay for OV?
Do you want to know if both OV and LW get franchised they'd get the same amount. Right? its the DE tag $Is LW a passrusher? NO! he plays a different position than someone who normally would be considered a passrusher. WHY ARE YOU EVEN COMPARING THE TWO?!?!? I dont think you read my last post. No need to get worked up. And you have no clue what was needed to secure contractual rights to LW. Someone else could have done a similar trade with the Jets. We dont know what he would get if he actually made it to FA but theoretically the NYG could save millions per year but locking him up prior to him reaching FA. YOU DONT KNOW...so please trash that line of thinking...at least until after we see what his contract is. Who cares if someone else wanted to trade draft capital to the Jets to potentially sign a guy thats not even at the top of this FA class at his POSITION!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?! (i thought you'd like that) Wait, so you have little understand of how negotiations work. As I discussed with people on these boards back at thanksgiving (people actually thought he'd sign prior to it). When we trade draft capital for a player, the leverage goes from the team to the player, instantly. It was foolish no matter how you look at it, especially considering the fact that there is abundant talent on his POSITION?!?!?!?!? in FA. So why?
You'll see what the contract is, you wont be happy. Lets talk when it happens? yes?
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Post by thetruth on Jan 16, 2020 18:26:14 GMT -5
They play 2 completely different positions with different assignments and different expectations. Don't bother with logic Giants fans, the only ones that think what Gettlemen is ...logical - funny how that works? Not surprising. Lets see how this deal works out for the Giants. Just make sure you show up.
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Post by thetruth on Jan 16, 2020 18:29:01 GMT -5
PFF stats favorable for Giants players, the forum reaction : "This player is great!" PFF stats unfavorable for Giants players, the forum reaction: "THESE BRTISH DUDES DONT KNOW ANYTHING" I actually enjoy this dynamic quite a bit. Let me ask you this, whos a better pass rusher, OV or Williams? If I recall Giants fans felt we overpaid for him. Well? If "almost sacks" didn't matter before they sure as heck shouldn't matter now They play 2 completely different positions with different assignments and different expectations. So they certainly shouldn't be valued the same. Got it.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 16, 2020 18:31:35 GMT -5
Giants fans, the only ones that think what Gettlemen is ...logical - funny how that works? Not surprising. Lets see how this deal works out for the Giants. Just make sure you show up. Oh I'll be here Carl But will you or will you dissapear and come back under another profile
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Post by thetruth on Jan 16, 2020 18:49:24 GMT -5
Giants fans, the only ones that think what Gettlemen is ...logical - funny how that works? Not surprising. Lets see how this deal works out for the Giants. Just make sure you show up. Oh I'll be here Carl But will you or will you dissapear and come back under another profile Its sad this is the best you got. Sad, but expected. But since you took the big step to actually quote me im good with it. Talk football, anything else regarding your thought process does not interest me.
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Post by giantfromtheoz on Jan 16, 2020 18:49:35 GMT -5
He is a solid pass rusher. But he’s not a pass rusher. Interior D lineman need to be good at stopping the run and getting push. The almost sacks thing, that’s getting a push. He is actually very good at what he does. If he finished more obviously better, but what he’s doing is very good still. The comparison to OV is a bit off. OV needs to finish. He’s a pass rusher. You don’t sign OV as a run stopper even though he is good at it. It’s guys like Williams who give him the chance to get in those positions to sack the QB. So a near sack for OV is no where near as good as a near sack for Williams. I’m still not sure what he’s actually worth, but with the different fronts Graham may install we might need a guy like Williams who can play 3 and 5 tech well. Big futures ahead for Williams, Big Dex, DT and Hill. All under 26 years of age or so? If only we could’ve added Chase Young to the second level
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Post by moecoastie on Jan 16, 2020 18:49:43 GMT -5
Yes, OV can play the 9,7,and 5 tech. Which is totally different than LW playing the 1, 3, and 5. Yes, they are both considered DEs but a DE in the 3-4 (stopping the run and pushing the middle of the pocket) has completely different responsibilities than a DE in the 4-3 (setting the edge and sacks). Youre comparing different positions with different responsibilities. If you'd read my post I gave that to you. They play different positions. Im talking about value. Did we overpay for OV?
Do you want to know if both OV and LW get franchised they'd get the same amount. Right? its the DE tag $Is LW a passrusher? NO! he plays a different position than someone who normally would be considered a passrusher. WHY ARE YOU EVEN COMPARING THE TWO?!?!? I dont think you read my last post. No need to get worked up. And you have no clue what was needed to secure contractual rights to LW. Someone else could have done a similar trade with the Jets. We dont know what he would get if he actually made it to FA but theoretically the NYG could save millions per year but locking him up prior to him reaching FA. YOU DONT KNOW...so please trash that line of thinking...at least until after we see what his contract is. Who cares if someone else wanted to trade draft capital to the Jets to potentially sign a guy thats not even at the top of this FA class at his POSITION!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?! (i thought you'd like that) Wait, so you have little understand of how negotiations work. As I discussed with people on these boards back at thanksgiving (people actually thought he'd sign prior to it). When we trade draft capital for a player, the leverage goes from the team to the player, instantly. It was foolish no matter how you look at it, especially considering the fact that there is abundant talent on his POSITION?!?!?!?!? in FA. So why?
You'll see what the contract is, you wont be happy. Lets talk when it happens? yes?
YES, Vernon was overpaid purely based on the amount of time spent on the field. 4 years ago, the $ value of each position has changed considerably so strictly comparing numbers is stupid. I get that you dont care if someone else traded for LW. That's your opinion...personally, I feel that it is much better for the NYG in the long run to not get into a bidding war. Which is the most likely situation that would happen had they waited and the worst case scenario is someone else would have traded for him and signed him prior to FA. If the NYG had drafted someone with a 3rd round pick who could perform like LW, I'd be glad they used a 3rd and happily resign him to a 2nd contract. For every 3rd rounder that plays to or above LW's production at his position, you can find 50 others who have failed and washed out. Yes, the 3rd is a valuable lottery ticket when youre hoping to hit it big and draft an all-pro. Reality is, if you get a starter in the 3rd you won....drafting a player as disruptive as LW is REALLY good. Using a 3rd round draft assets to guarantee a starter is not as high a price as some of you are making it out to be. Of course this depends on what the contract looks like at the end of the day so yes...we'll revisit this after.
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Post by thetruth on Jan 16, 2020 19:00:03 GMT -5
YES, Vernon was overpaid purely based on the amount of time spent on the field. 4 years ago, the $ value of each position has changed considerably so strictly comparing numbers is stupid. Vernon recorded something like 8 sacks and over.. 30 QB hits before the Giants signed him. PFF gave him an elite 90+ rating. However, he was a legit pass + run defender signed to play against the top 3 LTs of this past decade 6 times a year. Sure, you can say he's overpaid though.
Ill be curious to hear why you do or dont think Williams is overpaid or not. I get that you dont care if someone else traded for LW. That's your opinion...personally, I feel that it is much better for the NYG in the long run to not get into a bidding war. Which is the most likely situation that would happen had they waited and the worst case scenario is someone else would have traded for him and signed him prior to FA. If the NYG had drafted someone with a 3rd round pick who could perform like LW, I'd be glad they used a 3rd and happily resign him to a 2nd contract. The Giants will get into a bidding war, thats what happens when players turn to FA. Trading draft capital for a player gives him the leverage, he literally would be an idiot to sign before he see's what the market offers. If Gettlemen and the rest of management thought otherwise they dont know how leverage works and you should be very concerned considering its already been established that DG doesn't get how comp picks work either.
Its not about who they can take in the 3rd/4th round to compensate. Thats not how we should be looking at it as it completely ignores the fact that we traded draft capital to rent a player for 8 games when our record was 2-6.
the best part? Williams isn't even the best player at his position available in FA and nor did trading two picks assure anything in terms of him signing long term. Its asinine and a total mismanagement of resources. Not to mention, its the one position we had decent depth in. Its not even a need at this point considering we played 5 techs about ~30% of the snaps this season. For every 3rd rounder that plays to or above LW's production at his position, you can find 50 others who have failed and washed out. Yes, the 3rd is a valuable lottery ticket when youre hoping to hit it big and draft an all-pro. Reality is, if you get a starter in the 3rd you won....drafting a player as disruptive as LW is REALLY good. Using a 3rd round draft assets to guarantee a starter is not as high a price as some of you are making it out to be. Of course this depends on what the contract looks like at the end of the day so yes...we'll revisit this after.
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Post by moecoastie on Jan 16, 2020 19:24:13 GMT -5
YES, Vernon was overpaid purely based on the amount of time spent on the field. 4 years ago, the $ value of each position has changed considerably so strictly comparing numbers is stupid. Vernon recorded something like 8 sacks and over.. 30 QB hits before the Giants signed him. PFF gave him an elite 90+ rating. However, he was a legit pass + run defender signed to play against the top 3 LTs of this past decade 6 times a year. Sure, you can say he's overpaid though.
Ill be curious to hear why you do or dont think Williams is overpaid or not. I get that you dont care if someone else traded for LW. That's your opinion...personally, I feel that it is much better for the NYG in the long run to not get into a bidding war. Which is the most likely situation that would happen had they waited and the worst case scenario is someone else would have traded for him and signed him prior to FA. If the NYG had drafted someone with a 3rd round pick who could perform like LW, I'd be glad they used a 3rd and happily resign him to a 2nd contract. The Giants will get into a bidding war, thats what happens when players turn to FA. Trading draft capital for a player gives him the leverage, he literally would be an idiot to sign before he see's what the market offers. If Gettlemen and the rest of management thought otherwise they dont know how leverage works and you should be very concerned considering its already been established that DG doesn't get how comp picks work either.
Its not about who they can take in the 3rd/4th round to compensate. Thats not how we should be looking at it as it completely ignores the fact that we traded draft capital to rent a player for 8 games when our record was 2-6.
the best part? Williams isn't even the best player at his position available in FA and nor did trading two picks assure anything in terms of him signing long term. Its asinine and a total mismanagement of resources. Not to mention, its the one position we had decent depth in. Its not even a need at this point considering we played 5 techs about ~30% of the snaps this season. For every 3rd rounder that plays to or above LW's production at his position, you can find 50 others who have failed and washed out. Yes, the 3rd is a valuable lottery ticket when youre hoping to hit it big and draft an all-pro. Reality is, if you get a starter in the 3rd you won....drafting a player as disruptive as LW is REALLY good. Using a 3rd round draft assets to guarantee a starter is not as high a price as some of you are making it out to be. Of course this depends on what the contract looks like at the end of the day so yes...we'll revisit this after. ah yes....assuming the worst case scenario to prove your point. If Williams makes it to FA, yes..the trade is a bust and 90% of what you wrote is justified. If he doesnt make it to FA, youre left with "we could have gotten him for the same price or less!" which is false because if they sign him prior to FA, they avoid a bidding war. Prior to FA, everything is projection and Williams will need to make that heavy decision to bet on himself and/or move his family. Historically, a player doesnt make more resigning, they make more in FA where others can openly bid on your services. We can talk about leverage all you want but the leverage of not having to move your family from a place/city/state of comfort is a major factor in any athlete's career. Negotiations arent as cut and dry as you are making it out to be. You can just keep going on as if you know something....whatever makes you feel smarter. Again, we'll revisit this if/when his contract his signed.
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 16, 2020 19:26:32 GMT -5
As it turns out Leonard Williams was actually very good at rushing the passer this year, that skill just didn't show up in the sacks.
He was 13th of 87 interior DL in pressure rate and he was #1 IDL in QB hits (19). It is a huge risk giving up a 3rd for him on a contract year, but if we can sign him for a decent price he can certainly help this D produce more pressure on the QB.
PFF stats favorable for Giants players, the forum reaction : "This player is great!" PFF stats unfavorable for Giants players, the forum reaction: "THESE BRTISH DUDES DONT KNOW ANYTHING" I actually enjoy this dynamic quite a bit. Let me ask you this, whos a better pass rusher, OV or Williams? If I recall Giants fans felt we overpaid for him. Well? If "almost sacks" didn't matter before they sure as heck shouldn't matter now First off let me just say I agree 100% about PFF and people reacting here. Now let me say this really has nothing to do with PFF, this is not a "rating". Sacks, hits and hurries are all NFL stats. Williams was creating pressure, even if he didn't get sacks.
I should also say that I am one of the few people around here that defended OV and didn't want to get rid of him. OV had 7 sacks and 21 hits in 11 games last year. That was very solid, spread across 16 games that is almost identical to Markus Golden this year (although more costly). Williams certainly created less pressure than either one of those, but he isn't primarily a pass rusher like them. OV and Golden certainly are better pass rushers than Williams.
"Almost sacks" always matter, anyone who says otherwise is a fool.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 16, 2020 19:35:54 GMT -5
Oh I'll be here Carl But will you or will you dissapear and come back under another profile Its sad this is the best you got. Sad, but expected. But since you took the big step to actually quote me im good with it. Talk football, anything else regarding your thought process does not interest me. Pretty much all your posts here are as useful as used toilet paper Carl,and it seems to be a general consensus around here with how many d......b.. posts you make twards others ... So I'll continue to talk with the actual educated people o here while you be you
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 16, 2020 19:37:45 GMT -5
He is a solid pass rusher. But he’s not a pass rusher. Interior D lineman need to be good at stopping the run and getting push. The almost sacks thing, that’s getting a push. He is actually very good at what he does. If he finished more obviously better, but what he’s doing is very good still. The comparison to OV is a bit off. OV needs to finish. He’s a pass rusher. You don’t sign OV as a run stopper even though he is good at it. It’s guys like Williams who give him the chance to get in those positions to sack the QB. So a near sack for OV is no where near as good as a near sack for Williams. I’m still not sure what he’s actually worth, but with the different fronts Graham may install we might need a guy like Williams who can play 3 and 5 tech well. Big futures ahead for Williams, Big Dex, DT and Hill. All under 26 years of age or so? If only we could’ve added Chase Young to the second level Trade back and get Chaisson from LSU... could be just as devastating with having Williams,Tomlinson and Lawrence dominating the LOS by themselves
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Post by giantfromtheoz on Jan 16, 2020 19:46:36 GMT -5
He is a solid pass rusher. But he’s not a pass rusher. Interior D lineman need to be good at stopping the run and getting push. The almost sacks thing, that’s getting a push. He is actually very good at what he does. If he finished more obviously better, but what he’s doing is very good still. The comparison to OV is a bit off. OV needs to finish. He’s a pass rusher. You don’t sign OV as a run stopper even though he is good at it. It’s guys like Williams who give him the chance to get in those positions to sack the QB. So a near sack for OV is no where near as good as a near sack for Williams. I’m still not sure what he’s actually worth, but with the different fronts Graham may install we might need a guy like Williams who can play 3 and 5 tech well. Big futures ahead for Williams, Big Dex, DT and Hill. All under 26 years of age or so? If only we could’ve added Chase Young to the second level Trade back and get Chaisson from LSU... could be just as devastating with having Williams,Tomlinson and Lawrence dominating the LOS by themselves Chaisson is interesting. He hasent scratched the surface of his potential. Young could be like Clowney, you just never know.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jan 16, 2020 19:57:45 GMT -5
First time in my life has a player with 0.5 sacks on the season is regarded as a “solid” pass rusher. The same credit he’s getting is the same thing fans were criticizing with Vernon. Generating pressure and actual sacks are two different things. If we can sign him for under 10 a year. 5 years 47.5 30 guaranteed . 15 singing bonus. It would be a good deal . Tem I doubt if that's happening. 10 to 12 would be a good deal. If it goes up to 14 we probably pay it. Can't believe we pay more than that. But DG giving up a 3rd might be forced into making a deal not so good. But say 3 years maybe 4 at 10-12 even 13 or 14 looks like a great deal in 2 years. Guarantee him 2 1/2 years of money.
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Post by DMighty on Jan 16, 2020 20:11:57 GMT -5
He won't be resigned. Our head coach believe in coaching up players. He's wants to turn them into top notch players, not purchase them when they are out think they are!!
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Post by stroswift10nyg on Jan 16, 2020 20:12:32 GMT -5
Now that I think about it that was a bad trade. Why give up a 3rd round pick. Alot of talent in those rounds. Gonna hurt next year.
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 16, 2020 20:18:32 GMT -5
As it turns out Leonard Williams was actually very good at rushing the passer this year, that skill just didn't show up in the sacks.
He was 13th of 87 interior DL in pressure rate and he was #1 IDL in QB hits (19). It is a huge risk giving up a 3rd for him on a contract year, but if we can sign him for a decent price he can certainly help this D produce more pressure on the QB.
How would you feel about going back to a 4-3?...and using Williams as a a 3 tech tackle? Lawrence was part of a famed 4 man front that won it all in Clemson...we can then go back to the basics ... we have lacked the linebackers on a 3-4 forever...we seem better suited to go 4-3...thoughts? Honestly this would be my plan. Have Williams, Tomlinson and Lawrence as your 3 DL. Then you have Markus Golden that can switch between DL or LB depending on the situation. Essentially switching from 3-4 to 4-3 without changing personnel. I would also draft Isaiah Simmons (if Detroit doesn't). Then you can switch from 3-4 to 4-3 to nickel without changing a single person on the field. You could also switch out another LB and keep Simmons at LB and have a very good pass defending nickel package.
I do think Graham will again be flexible in his base D and I think as long as we re-sign Markus Golden things will be fine. I would also do anything I can to sign Shaq Barrett. A rotation at DT with Williams, Tomlinson, Lawrence and Hill could make for a very good base but we would need another DE to pair with Golden on passing downs.
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 16, 2020 20:22:45 GMT -5
First time in my life has a player with 0.5 sacks on the season is regarded as a “solid” pass rusher. The same credit he’s getting is the same thing fans were criticizing with Vernon. Generating pressure and actual sacks are two different things. I'll say the same thing now that I did about OV, fans are dumb. Seriously. He lead all DTs in hitting the QB. Anyone that does not think hitting the QB counts as pressure is just foolish. I'm not saying the guy is great, but that is pretty solid.
This is the same as saying a guy leading the league in pass defenses isn't good in coverage because he doesn't have INTs.
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Post by allnygin on Jan 16, 2020 21:26:12 GMT -5
Who is better? Snacks or Williams? Snacks just signed an 11.5 million dollar extension so the answer to the above question should give everyone a perspective to Williams value. I'm thinking he gets something over $13 million a year minimum.. Snacks is older, but was/is always the better player. I think Williams gets close to $15M/year on the open market. DG, what say you? OV was a defensive end who was hurt all of the time. As a DE it WAS his job to get to the QB every play. WIlliams is a DT who collapses the pocket and plays the run very well WIlliams > OV ever was even as a DT.. that last part is debatable, but still at least thats how I view it.
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Post by giants38 on Jan 16, 2020 23:18:49 GMT -5
I don't mind seeing Williams brought back if the contract is right. Definitely don't want DG to overpay for him. Too many other needs to fill on this roster. Spotrac says the "market value" for Williams is 8M.
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Post by giants38 on Jan 16, 2020 23:25:05 GMT -5
according to my uneducated guess and the nature of the NFL... It was an odd move by DG to begin with and Williams can probably get more with another team if the NYGs want to go "cheap" so to speak. Just a a guess on my part Everything I read is his value is under 10 a year Golden is a bit over. Who do you compare him with as far a value? Spotrac says Golden's "market value" is 12M.
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