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Post by Morehead State on Jan 17, 2020 9:38:22 GMT -5
This is the same Mark Ross that helped F the team up. I would not do anything he says. The same Marc Ross that helped us win a SB. Let's not be selective.
May I remind everyone that after JR and Ross got fired we've been 9-23. Our "fixed" O line is worse than it was when they left. And our defense is actually worse.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 17, 2020 9:39:03 GMT -5
The same Marc Ross that many fans were worried he would take the GM job of the Panthers in 2012. My recollection is that he got quite a few GM interviews. Telling that he never landed one of those jobs.
Also telling that Reese seems to have completely fallen off of the GM radar.
Reese seemed tired at the end he wasn't doing his local rounds Rutgers, Temple, and some of the small schools in the area he would always go scout. It was reported the last couple years he was doing none of that. He might come back to the right opportunity. The telling part would be if he would ride again with Ross riding shot gun.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 17, 2020 9:42:41 GMT -5
I thought he would have been long gone by our pick. Not faulting the talent just a matter they could have got as good a talent at a more important position and a position of dire need. Martin is what he was projected to be an All Pro type talent and a good guy in the locker room over all. Hind sight is always 20/20 but at the time we had just spent our first round pick on Pugh the year before and were had a depleted WR group with just Cruz left over. I don't think we can fault them for drafting Odell or Martin in that situation. Obviously looking back I wish we had Martin, but the Odell thing is still working out with the trade we made last year reaping big benefits. I ddi want Martin and got killed for it because I admitted after the season. For me the part that made it acceptable was drafting Richberg in the 2nd to bad he wasn't a fit for our scheme at he time.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 17, 2020 9:46:53 GMT -5
This is the same Mark Ross that helped F the team up. I would not do anything he says. The same Marc Ross that helped us win a SB. Let's not be selective.
May I remind everyone that after JR and Ross got fired we've been 9-23. Our "fixed" O line is worse than it was when they left. And our defense is actually worse.
Just goes to show how much damage they did lol as most knew that weren't in denial. the hole being dug was turning into a canyon.
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 17, 2020 9:49:25 GMT -5
Hind sight is always 20/20 but at the time we had just spent our first round pick on Pugh the year before and were had a depleted WR group with just Cruz left over. I don't think we can fault them for drafting Odell or Martin in that situation. Obviously looking back I wish we had Martin, but the Odell thing is still working out with the trade we made last year reaping big benefits. I ddi want Martin and got killed for it because I admitted after the season. For me the part that made it acceptable was drafting Richberg in the 2nd to bad he wasn't a fit for our scheme at he time. Yeah. I keep hoping we get the right OL coach to fix this place. Richburg could have been very good I think.
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Post by TEM on Jan 17, 2020 9:50:13 GMT -5
This is the same Mark Ross that helped F the team up. I would not do anything he says. The same Marc Ross that helped us win a SB. Let's not be selective.
May I remind everyone that after JR and Ross got fired we've been 9-23. Our "fixed" O line is worse than it was when they left. And our defense is actually worse.
You know I appreacheat that . I have outright said it, But the past 4-5 seasons their combination lost all competence of any coherent team building skills. Their BPA did not correlate with most needed hole to fill. That scenario; If need verses BPA do not merge. It draws one conclusion that works. Trade out of the pick. They didn't . Their BPA did not fix the issues that were apparent to be addressed. I think they did ok on their last draft Thomlinson and Engram,. It was too little too late. Taking a WR as he suggests with our first pick . Is the same ole same ole with him.
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Post by Morehead State on Jan 17, 2020 9:51:50 GMT -5
The same Marc Ross that helped us win a SB. Let's not be selective.
May I remind everyone that after JR and Ross got fired we've been 9-23. Our "fixed" O line is worse than it was when they left. And our defense is actually worse.
Just goes to show how much damage they did lol as most knew that weren't in denial. the hole being dug was turning into a canyon. It's such a kneejerk reaction to focus on the bad of the old regime. Let's not forget that they won 2 SB's.
And unless you know specifically, what Marc Ross's role was in drafting and signing players.....your villainization of him is specious.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 17, 2020 9:53:15 GMT -5
This is the same Mark Ross that helped F the team up. I would not do anything he says. The same Marc Ross that helped us win a SB. Let's not be selective.
May I remind everyone that after JR and Ross got fired we've been 9-23. Our "fixed" O line is worse than it was when they left. And our defense is actually worse.
And you are wrong on the OL with all due respect, currently ranked middle of the pack something this line has seen since 2010. And the defense is ranked a bit higher then the over paid quitters that ranked dead last at the end of 2017.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jan 17, 2020 9:53:59 GMT -5
It's nothing against Juedy or any other WR but from what I've heard as of now before the combine is that Young and Thomas are the 2 best non QB prospects. Now that CB from Ohio St. believe his name is Okuda is suppose to be great immediately.
Now if the Skins and Lions take Young and Thomas with the 2nd and 3rd I'm hoping we trade back somewhere right behind us and pick up 1st and/or 2nd rd picks.
Though at this point if we can't trade back for what we want Juedy or Okuda are both terriffic prospects.
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Post by Morehead State on Jan 17, 2020 9:59:02 GMT -5
It's nothing against Juedy or any other WR but from what I've heard as of now before the combine is that Young and Thomas are the 2 best non QB prospects. Now that CB from Ohio St. believe his name is Okuda is suppose to be great immediately. Now if the Skins and Lions take Young and Thomas with the 2nd and 3rd I'm hoping we trade back somewhere right behind us and pick up 1st and/or 2nd rd picks. Though at this point if we can't trade back for what we want Juedy or Okuda are both terriffic prospects. I've heard that the OT position is very deep this year. Might be better to wait until RD 2. I guess it comes down to value. We'll just have to wait and see how the off season shakes out leading up to the draft.
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Post by Morehead State on Jan 17, 2020 10:01:41 GMT -5
The same Marc Ross that helped us win a SB. Let's not be selective.
May I remind everyone that after JR and Ross got fired we've been 9-23. Our "fixed" O line is worse than it was when they left. And our defense is actually worse.
And you are wrong on the OL with all due respect, currently ranked middle of the pack something this line has seen since 2010. And the defense is ranked a bit higher then the over paid quitters that ranked dead last at the end of 2017. Let's put it this way...with all the bluster about "Hog Mollies" our O line is terrible two years later. Essentially, Dave has drafted ONE O lineman in two drafts.
Ans spare me with this defense and their rankings. They are terrible after two drafts.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 17, 2020 10:04:28 GMT -5
Just goes to show how much damage they did lol as most knew that weren't in denial. the hole being dug was turning into a canyon. It's such a kneejerk reaction to focus on the bad of the old regime. Let's not forget that they won 2 SB's.
And unless you know specifically, what Marc Ross's role was in drafting and signing players.....your villainization of him is specious.
So yet JR gets the credit for the nucleus EA drafted but the fall of the Giants goes on the guy who was hired to try to make up for 8 years of lost drafts. Giants started falling off the cliff soon after Marc Ross was hired and EA and a bit later DG left. The part that gets me is villainization of the current GM who had as much to do or more helping bring both those superbowls then Ross ever did.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 17, 2020 10:11:59 GMT -5
And you are wrong on the OL with all due respect, currently ranked middle of the pack something this line has seen since 2010. And the defense is ranked a bit higher then the over paid quitters that ranked dead last at the end of 2017. Let's put it this way...with all the bluster about "Hog Mollies" our O line is terrible two years later. Essentially, Dave has drafted ONE O lineman in two drafts.
Ans spare me with this defense and their rankings. They are terrible after two drafts.
LOL better then they were on both accounts I guess he should have drafted OL every draft. This fan base seems to forget we were heading for cap hell and getting nothing for the over paid fellows on the roster and were empty at LB DB this roster was a mess along with the cap.
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 17, 2020 10:14:13 GMT -5
And you are wrong on the OL with all due respect, currently ranked middle of the pack something this line has seen since 2010. And the defense is ranked a bit higher then the over paid quitters that ranked dead last at the end of 2017. Let's put it this way...with all the bluster about "Hog Mollies" our O line is terrible two years later. Essentially, Dave has drafted ONE O lineman in two drafts.
Ans spare me with this defense and their rankings. They are terrible after two drafts.
Can I say you are both wrong? Our D was ranked 27th (Points) and 31st (Yards) in 2017, we were 30th and 25th this year. That isn't really any improvement. That just means teams didn't have to drive as far to score, probably due to turnovers and short fields. Our D was awful last year. Personally I think it was scheme more than players and we will see this year. Either way this D was terrible.
As for the OL you are doing exactly what those guys are doing in their nitpicks. Dave has completely changed the OL and improved every position other than maybe Center. Solder hasn't been great but he was the #1 OT free agent, we signed him and he is better than Flowers was. We drafted Hernandez and in two years has been better than injured Pugh and Halp on the left, Halp at Center is a failure and we have to move on Brett Jones was better. Dave also traded for Zeitler who has been infinitely better than Jerry and is one of the best in the league...even injured. He also brought in Remmers who despite his flaws is damn sure better than Bobby Hart.
Is our OL awesome? No. But people really seem to forget how awful out OL was in 2017. Do you really think rookie Daniel Jones would have done as well as he did behind that OL? No chance IMO.
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Post by Morehead State on Jan 17, 2020 10:18:58 GMT -5
It's such a kneejerk reaction to focus on the bad of the old regime. Let's not forget that they won 2 SB's.
And unless you know specifically, what Marc Ross's role was in drafting and signing players.....your villainization of him is specious.
So yet JR gets the credit for the nucleus EA drafted but the fall of the Giants goes on the guy who was hired to try to make up for 8 years of lost drafts. Giants started falling off the cliff soon after Marc Ross was hired and EA and a bit later DG left. The part that gets me is villainization of the current GM who had as much to do or more helping bring both those superbowls then Ross ever did. JR gets the credit for his role in a very collaborative process in choosing players with our franchise. Tom got the players he wanted...that is well known. He loved Ereck Flowers. As a matter of fact it took him 5 minutes to sign him when we released him.
Tom, JR and others deserve great credit for our 2 SB wins. They also deserve a lot of blame for our downfall. I was fine with everyone getting fired, but I won't let the villainizing of these guys stand without comment here.
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Post by TEM on Jan 17, 2020 10:22:23 GMT -5
How did Ross' inept team building skills ( player evaluation ) for 5 consecutive seasons become a referendum on Gettleman in this thread? Ross was part of the problem not a solution going forward. . His ideas are dried out and should be take as such.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 17, 2020 10:26:38 GMT -5
So yet JR gets the credit for the nucleus EA drafted but the fall of the Giants goes on the guy who was hired to try to make up for 8 years of lost drafts. Giants started falling off the cliff soon after Marc Ross was hired and EA and a bit later DG left. The part that gets me is villainization of the current GM who had as much to do or more helping bring both those superbowls then Ross ever did. JR gets the credit for his role in a very collaborative process in choosing players with our franchise. Tom got the players he wanted...that is well known. He loved Ereck Flowers. As a matter of fact it took him 5 minutes to sign him when we released him.
Tom, JR and others deserve great credit for our 2 SB wins. They also deserve a lot of blame for our downfall. I was fine with everyone getting fired, but I won't let the villainizing of these guys stand without comment here.
LOL still can't say it tho DG had more to do with it then Ross lol and he left JR with Ross and the bottom fell out Villainization at it's best.
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Post by Morehead State on Jan 17, 2020 10:28:16 GMT -5
How did Ross' inept team building skills ( player evaluation ) for 5 consecutive seasons become a referendum on Gettleman in this thread? Ross was part of the problem not a solution going forward. . His ideas are dried out and should be take as such. My own personal opinion is that Marc Ross is a really smart football guy. He sees the new NFL for what it is. It's obvious from his public comments that he believed Eli age and lack of ability to extend plays was hurting the team. And we saw what happened to anyone who dared do anything about it.......at least in 2017.
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Post by TCHOF on Jan 17, 2020 10:37:21 GMT -5
My recollection is that he got quite a few GM interviews. Telling that he never landed one of those jobs.
Also telling that Reese seems to have completely fallen off of the GM radar.
He did. Colts and Panthers off the top of my head. Says a lot when not once did he get a GM offer. I just find it funny that at one time Ross was the new flavor of the month. Years later he’s chopped liver. As for Reese, he turned down the Raiders interview for the GM position. Makes me wonder, does he want to get back into the league? I think that Ross interviewed with the Bears as well.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 17, 2020 11:40:25 GMT -5
I love how these asshats make these kind of statements AFTER watching the Titans storm their way to the AFC Championship through a dominant running game and defense.....not to mention that's the way both the Ravens and Niners ran through the regular season to their #1 seeds......just idiotic. Because that one big name WR has ever put a team over the top. I hate to say it but Odell was the most talented WR to come out of the draft in recent memory and look at all the success he has brought to both his teams.....<insert eyeroll here> You still need to throw the ball,be completely balanced and be able to win games any style in the modern NFL(even everyone's favorite trOutleir team Tennessee,the inconvenient truth to those who are allergic to the foward pass was that in Baltimore they opened up the running game by coming out passing and hitting on a few plays early) and have the firepower to come back from a large defect... I am not in any means advocating taking a reciever at 4.....hell I'll be pissed as **** if we pass on Thomas or Wirfs when w could get Reagor,Jefferson,ect day 2 and players such as Mims,Dunlevey,Gibson,KJ Hill,Proche day 3 ,but just because Tennessee did what they did does not mean we don't need recievers (like I sad get one later )and the team has to go back to prehistoric times where anything overv10 passes and 100 yards a game is a bad thing. Build me a team like San Francisco,can win a streetfight,shootout,and anything in between
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Post by myronguyton29 on Jan 17, 2020 11:44:56 GMT -5
Said we should pick Jeudy at 4. Yeah because we definitely need another receiver. This is why he's no longer employed by this team. Man you and I must be related because I started to make a post about that and that's exactly 100 and 1,000% what I thought as soon as his dumbass said that LOL and SMH
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Post by GameTime on Jan 17, 2020 11:46:12 GMT -5
its just one of many opinions....
so what
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Post by TEM on Jan 17, 2020 11:51:51 GMT -5
How did Ross' inept team building skills ( player evaluation ) for 5 consecutive seasons become a referendum on Gettleman in this thread? Ross was part of the problem not a solution going forward. . His ideas are dried out and should be take as such. My own personal opinion is that Marc Ross is a really smart football guy. He sees the new NFL for what it is. It's obvious from his public comments that he believed Eli age and lack of ability to extend plays was hurting the team. And we saw what happened to anyone who dared do anything about it.......at least in 2017. He can say that, He can not blame 4 + years of inept drafting on the QB . That does not pass the what took place test.
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Post by Morehead State on Jan 17, 2020 11:57:53 GMT -5
My own personal opinion is that Marc Ross is a really smart football guy. He sees the new NFL for what it is. It's obvious from his public comments that he believed Eli age and lack of ability to extend plays was hurting the team. And we saw what happened to anyone who dared do anything about it.......at least in 2017. He can say that, He can not blame 4 + years of inept drafting on the QB . That does not pass the what took place test. Some of those picks are doing well with other teams. Kyle Shanahan called Weston Richburg the best center he’s ever coached. Linvall is one of the best DT,s in the league. Hankins is a vey good NFL tackle. Even Flowers had a better PFF grade at guard than Hernandez. some of JR,s picks drove me crazy. But he was fired less than a year from a Giants playoff game. as much as some folks want to revise history. JR and Marc Ross did a lot of good things as well.
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Post by TEM on Jan 17, 2020 12:04:43 GMT -5
He can say that, He can not blame 4 + years of inept drafting on the QB . That does not pass the what took place test. Some of those picks are doing well with other teams. Kyle Shanahan called Weston Richburg the best center he’s ever coached. Linvall is one of the best DT,s in the league. Hankins is a vey good NFL tackle. Even Flowers had a better PFF grade at guard than Hernandez. some of JR,s picks drove me crazy. But he was fired less than a year from a Giants playoff game. as much as some folks want to revise history. JR and Marc Ross did a lot of good things as well. No one can say the didn't When Gillbride stated he need to rebuild the O-line at the end of the 012 season and it was never completed correctly was the nail in the coffin. It should have not taken 5 more years.
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Post by Morehead State on Jan 17, 2020 12:09:48 GMT -5
Some of those picks are doing well with other teams. Kyle Shanahan called Weston Richburg the best center he’s ever coached. Linvall is one of the best DT,s in the league. Hankins is a vey good NFL tackle. Even Flowers had a better PFF grade at guard than Hernandez. some of JR,s picks drove me crazy. But he was fired less than a year from a Giants playoff game. as much as some folks want to revise history. JR and Marc Ross did a lot of good things as well. No one can say the didn't When Gillbride stated he need to rebuild the O-line at the end of the 012 season and it was never completed correctly was the nail in the coffin. It should have not taken 5 more years. Welcome to the NFL. Most teams struggle to block these monster athletes on NFL defenses. There are maybe 5 teams with “good” O lines.
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smitty
Special Teams
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Post by smitty on Jan 17, 2020 12:17:39 GMT -5
This is exactly the mindset that got Reese and Ross fired.
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Post by TEM on Jan 17, 2020 12:23:38 GMT -5
No one can say the didn't When Gillbride stated he need to rebuild the O-line at the end of the 012 season and it was never completed correctly was the nail in the coffin. It should have not taken 5 more years. Welcome to the NFL. Most teams struggle to block these monster athletes on NFL defenses. There are maybe 5 teams with “good” O lines. Our line good and then it never was again . They did not fix it. It is that simple. And here he is again with Lets fix it with drafting a WR.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2020 12:28:09 GMT -5
No one can say the didn't When Gillbride stated he need to rebuild the O-line at the end of the 012 season and it was never completed correctly was the nail in the coffin. It should have not taken 5 more years. Welcome to the NFL. Most teams struggle to block these monster athletes on NFL defenses. There are maybe 5 teams with “good” O lines. The other comment I keep hearing from fans is that the Giants did an injustice to Eli because they never built a winning team for him.. Those two championships don't seem to count and when you break it down to see all the great QBs who have only one title or none you would think it should make people understand that it's not easy to build a Championship team in the NFL either..
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Post by Delicreep on Jan 17, 2020 12:31:27 GMT -5
He can say that, He can not blame 4 + years of inept drafting on the QB . That does not pass the what took place test. Some of those picks are doing well with other teams. Kyle Shanahan called Weston Richburg the best center he’s ever coached. Linvall is one of the best DT,s in the league. Hankins is a vey good NFL tackle. Even Flowers had a better PFF grade at guard than Hernandez. some of JR,s picks drove me crazy. But he was fired less than a year from a Giants playoff game. as much as some folks want to revise history. JR and Marc Ross did a lot of good things as well. This is the absolute insane way you argue this: you just said Flowers was a TC pick, but then use him as an example of a JT/Ross pick. Here's how I argue it: JR/Ross were in charge of who we drafted/signed. They may have listened to others, but in the end, they pulled the trigger and made every selection. They get 100% of the credit for every player we signed They get 100% of the blame for bad picks...not players who did well elsewhere, but were abject failures - and there ain't a lot of them. Both did way more good than harm to the franchise...it's not even close.
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