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Post by Sarcasman on Jan 17, 2020 14:03:12 GMT -5
We should get a WR but not at 4. Yeah And this is why Ross is working for the NFL network We.now know who was the one putting together Reese's big board. The best value at 4 would by far be OT...with Wirfs and Thomas Even a trade back one or 2 spots guarentees one of these guys... WEAPONS! this is fantasy football, right? Jesus, a RB at 2 a WR at 4....
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Post by Sarcasman on Jan 17, 2020 14:06:45 GMT -5
No one can say the didn't When Gillbride stated he need to rebuild the O-line at the end of the 012 season and it was never completed correctly was the nail in the coffin. It should have not taken 5 more years. Welcome to the NFL. Most teams struggle to block these monster athletes on NFL defenses. There are maybe 5 teams with “good” O lines. And they're all in the playoffs.
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Post by PennState1 on Jan 17, 2020 14:09:50 GMT -5
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE finally fix our Oline!! Thomas at LT and a new highly intelligent and physically dominant Center. Protect DJ, open holes for Barkley
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Post by PennState1 on Jan 17, 2020 14:15:06 GMT -5
Let's put it this way...with all the bluster about "Hog Mollies" our O line is terrible two years later. Essentially, Dave has drafted ONE O lineman in two drafts.
Ans spare me with this defense and their rankings. They are terrible after two drafts.
Can I say you are both wrong? Our D was ranked 27th (Points) and 31st (Yards) in 2017, we were 30th and 25th this year. That isn't really any improvement. That just means teams didn't have to drive as far to score, probably due to turnovers and short fields. Our D was awful last year. Personally I think it was scheme more than players and we will see this year. Either way this D was terrible.
As for the OL you are doing exactly what those guys are doing in their nitpicks. Dave has completely changed the OL and improved every position other than maybe Center. Solder hasn't been great but he was the #1 OT free agent, we signed him and he is better than Flowers was. We drafted Hernandez and in two years has been better than injured Pugh and Halp on the left, Halp at Center is a failure and we have to move on Brett Jones was better. Dave also traded for Zeitler who has been infinitely better than Jerry and is one of the best in the league...even injured. He also brought in Remmers who despite his flaws is damn sure better than Bobby Hart.
Is our OL awesome? No. But people really seem to forget how awful out OL was in 2017. Do you really think rookie Daniel Jones would have done as well as he did behind that OL? No chance IMO.
Great post. It would be fantastic to get the 10 year answer at LT AND a great Center. Center is a HUGE reason for of our problems...especially in missed assignments and run blocking
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Post by TEM on Jan 17, 2020 14:17:39 GMT -5
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE finally fix our Oline!! Thomas at LT and a new highly intelligent and physically dominant Center. Protect DJ, open holes for Barkley It is a no brainer.
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Post by PennState1 on Jan 17, 2020 14:18:47 GMT -5
No one can say the didn't When Gillbride stated he need to rebuild the O-line at the end of the 012 season and it was never completed correctly was the nail in the coffin. It should have not taken 5 more years. Welcome to the NFL. Most teams struggle to block these monster athletes on NFL defenses. There are maybe 5 teams with “good” O lines. All 5 used first round picks to accomplish the task. Additionally, I’m guessing they have better oline coaches as well but that’s just conjecture on my part.
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mj312
Special Teams
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Post by mj312 on Jan 17, 2020 14:19:34 GMT -5
Simmons PLEASE ! I can't watch another year of the NYGs pathetic defense .. gettleman has already tried to updrade the line and has dumped significant resources into it and they still suck .. get the best damn defensive player available at 4.. Simmons can legit rush the passer and cover backs and tight ends .. this defense needs talent ..
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Post by Delicreep on Jan 17, 2020 14:20:37 GMT -5
Welcome to the NFL. Most teams struggle to block these monster athletes on NFL defenses. There are maybe 5 teams with “good” O lines. And they're all in the playoffs. Without sitting down and doing the math, I would guess that 16 teams are average or better than average.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2020 14:23:24 GMT -5
Welcome to the NFL. Most teams struggle to block these monster athletes on NFL defenses. There are maybe 5 teams with “good” O lines. All 5 used first round picks to accomplish the task. Additionally, I’m guessing they have better oline coaches as well but that’s just conjecture on my part. The Giants did it twice and also used a 2nd on a center during that time also.. Hoping it's coaching since the Giants have so many needs it would be nice if most of the current players develop into a solid line..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2020 14:25:31 GMT -5
Welcome to the NFL. Most teams struggle to block these monster athletes on NFL defenses. There are maybe 5 teams with “good” O lines. And they're all in the playoffs. Cowboys don't qualify as having a top 5 line?? Just loving how they were ranked high on both sides of the ball without making the playoffs..
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Post by TEM on Jan 17, 2020 14:26:56 GMT -5
All 5 used first round picks to accomplish the task. Additionally, I’m guessing they have better oline coaches as well but that’s just conjecture on my part. The Giants did it twice and also used a 2nd on a center during that time also.. Hoping it's coaching since the Giants have so many needs it would be nice if most of the current players develop into a solid line.. We need to draft a tackle. These one year mercenaries do not allow the line to become cohesive as a unit.
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Post by PennState1 on Jan 17, 2020 14:29:18 GMT -5
All 5 used first round picks to accomplish the task. Additionally, I’m guessing they have better oline coaches as well but that’s just conjecture on my part. The Giants did it twice and also used a 2nd on a center during that time also.. Hoping it's coaching since the Giants have so many needs it would be nice if most of the current players develop into a solid line.. True. Also true is their Giant miss expecting the player who shall forever remain nameless to be a starting LT and the stubborn instance to stick with it even though he SUCKED in that spot. The problem with our center was constant injuries. He has improved his game considerably, become significantly stronger and appears to be past the constant injury issues. Having said that, didn’t he miss some time for San Fran this year as well? Regardless, keep picking 1st rounders until you get it right and hire great coaches and support staff to put these young guys in positions to succeed.
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Post by PennState1 on Jan 17, 2020 14:30:31 GMT -5
And they're all in the playoffs. Cowboys don't qualify as having a top 5 line?? Just loving how they were ranked high on both sides of the ball without making the playoffs.. No one said a great oline alone will get you to the playoffs or win a SB. Without one your chances are slim to none.
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Post by piddy283 on Jan 17, 2020 14:36:46 GMT -5
Said we should pick Jeudy at 4. Yeah because we definitely need another receiver. This is why he's no longer employed by this team. It's not my first choice at all, but if we do end up trading back I wouldn't be shocked if this happened. We'd get a bundle of picks, and could address OL, LB, etc later on with those other picks, and go BPA if Young/Thomas both go at #2 and #3 as expected.
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 17, 2020 14:37:20 GMT -5
Great post. It would be fantastic to get the 10 year answer at LT AND a great Center. Center is a HUGE reason for of our problems...especially in missed assignments and run blocking This is a very deep OT class and I think 5-6 could go round 1. There are 2 Centers in the class that are really good and I think one possibly both will be early round 2 picks. Biadasz out of Wisconsin is a stud and I would do a flip if we can grab in in round 2. Creed Humphrey from Oklahoma is the other one that is really good and is going to be rising up mock drafts. With the depth at OT in this class I can see at least one of these guys falling to round 2 for us.
If we don't want Simmons, or Detroit takes him, then trading back is the best option and we can get 3 positions filled out of OT, C, WR or LB in the first 3 picks. If somehow we can pull off multiple trade backs we can get even more picks.
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Post by Sarcasman on Jan 17, 2020 14:37:55 GMT -5
And they're all in the playoffs. Without sitting down and doing the math, I would guess that 16 teams are average or better than average. That sounds imprudent. You better do the math first, I can't imagine that that's true.
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Post by Sarcasman on Jan 17, 2020 14:39:54 GMT -5
And they're all in the playoffs. Cowboys don't qualify as having a top 5 line?? Just loving how they were ranked high on both sides of the ball without making the playoffs.. They do but they didn't make the postseason so I ignored them due to their irrelevance.
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Post by Sarcasman on Jan 17, 2020 14:41:21 GMT -5
Cowboys don't qualify as having a top 5 line?? Just loving how they were ranked high on both sides of the ball without making the playoffs.. No one said a great oline alone will get you to the playoffs or win a SB. Without one your chances are slim to none. It's OL and defense. It also helps to have a high profile QB to feed that canard.
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 17, 2020 14:51:48 GMT -5
No one said a great oline alone will get you to the playoffs or win a SB. Without one your chances are slim to none. It's OL and defense. It also helps to have a high profile QB to feed that canard. You also need weapons on the outside, a two way TE, a RB to help run out the clock. Oh LBs that can cover, a pass rush and competent secondary helps too.
IMO the most important thing outside QB is an identity as a team. Some are stud defensive teams, some are run it down your throat teams, some of flashy offensive teams. In fact there is one of each of those still in the playoffs. Throw in the Packers with a top tier QB and you can literally cover all your bases in the 4 teams playing this weekend.
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soflo
Special Teams
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Post by soflo on Jan 17, 2020 15:01:37 GMT -5
This is the same Mark Ross that helped F the team up. I would not do anything he says. Two years ago Ross said he would have selected Darnold. I think he was making our picks with a magic 8 ball.
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Post by TEM on Jan 17, 2020 15:06:14 GMT -5
This is the same Mark Ross that helped F the team up. I would not do anything he says. Two years ago Ross said he would have selected Darnold. I think he was making our picks with a magic 8 ball. I think he had along with the whole upper FO. I know i am right . It must be something else. Too many Yes men under them not questioning the direction. I think it is simple. He is still doing it.
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Post by Morehead State on Jan 17, 2020 15:25:23 GMT -5
Welcome to the NFL. Most teams struggle to block these monster athletes on NFL defenses. There are maybe 5 teams with “good” O lines. All 5 used first round picks to accomplish the task. Additionally, I’m guessing they have better oline coaches as well but that’s just conjecture on my part. Coaching is the key. Dave Baktiari was a late round pick the same year as we picked Pugh in RD 1. ....and he's one of the best LT's in the NFL.
It's amazing what coaching can do.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 17, 2020 15:32:37 GMT -5
The Giants did it twice and also used a 2nd on a center during that time also.. Hoping it's coaching since the Giants have so many needs it would be nice if most of the current players develop into a solid line.. True. Also true is their Giant miss expecting the player who shall forever remain nameless to be a starting LT and the stubborn instance to stick with it even though he SUCKED in that spot. The problem with our center was constant injuries. He has improved his game considerably, become significantly stronger and appears to be past the constant injury issues. Having said that, didn’t he miss some time for San Fran this year as well? Regardless, keep picking 1st rounders until you get it right and hire great coaches and support staff to put these young guys in positions to succeed. He hasn't played the last 3 games and the playoff game and he was terrible last year for them their beat writers were griping about the money paid out. H e started off pretty good this year but fell to injury again. Still glad we didn't pay him or Pugh neither have been very good or have been dependable this was Pughs 2 in 7 years he got through with out injury and Richy who I liked when drafted just was either hurt or over powered most of the time.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 17, 2020 15:44:28 GMT -5
He can say that, He can not blame 4 + years of inept drafting on the QB . That does not pass the what took place test. Some of those picks are doing well with other teams. Kyle Shanahan called Weston Richburg the best center he’s ever coached. Linvall is one of the best DT,s in the league. Hankins is a vey good NFL tackle. Even Flowers had a better PFF grade at guard than Hernandez. some of JR,s picks drove me crazy. But he was fired less than a year from a Giants playoff game. as much as some folks want to revise history. JR and Marc Ross did a lot of good things as well. Richberg was terrible his first year there bottom 3rd look it up and now he is out again lol what is he supposed to say he paid 49 mill.More BS Will H is a second year player that graded out a point or 2 lower then Flowers because his run blocking slipped but he was solid in pass pro didn't give up sack till they got him for 2 near the end of the year.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 17, 2020 15:49:56 GMT -5
All 5 used first round picks to accomplish the task. Additionally, I’m guessing they have better oline coaches as well but that’s just conjecture on my part. Coaching is the key. Dave Baktiari was a late round pick the same year as we picked Pugh in RD 1. ....and he's one of the best LT's in the NFL.
It's amazing what coaching can do.
WE had a coach who did that with undrafteded Suebert and Ohara and with 5th rounder Dave Diehl. In Flarerty but he got fired because Flowers didn't like or respond to him. When Flowers went to Jacksonville it wasn't because TC and Flarerty loved him it was because they had 0 healthy tackles. He was gone the minute the season ended.We did have a coach who did develop 2 undrafted players to pro bowls and a 5th rounder.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 17, 2020 15:54:24 GMT -5
The Giants did it twice and also used a 2nd on a center during that time also.. Hoping it's coaching since the Giants have so many needs it would be nice if most of the current players develop into a solid line.. True. Also true is their Giant miss expecting the player who shall forever remain nameless to be a starting LT and the stubborn instance to stick with it even though he SUCKED in that spot. The problem with our center was constant injuries. He has improved his game considerably, become significantly stronger and appears to be past the constant injury issues. Having said that, didn’t he miss some time for San Fran this year as well? Regardless, keep picking 1st rounders until you get it right and hire great coaches and support staff to put these young guys in positions to succeed. Horrible allocation of recourses Doesnt matter what position,you keep drafting the same position every year in the first round the rest of the team falls apart
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 17, 2020 15:58:24 GMT -5
Yeah And this is why Ross is working for the NFL network We.now know who was the one putting together Reese's big board. The best value at 4 would by far be OT...with Wirfs and Thomas Even a trade back one or 2 spots guarentees one of these guys... WEAPONS! this is fantasy football, right? Jesus, a RB at 2 a WR at 4.... F DRAFT ALL THE WEAPONZ!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2020 15:59:05 GMT -5
The Giants did it twice and also used a 2nd on a center during that time also.. Hoping it's coaching since the Giants have so many needs it would be nice if most of the current players develop into a solid line.. We need to draft a tackle. These one year mercenaries do not allow the line to become cohesive as a unit. Who's talking about one year mercenaries?? I'm talking about Pugh, Flowers and Richburg..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2020 16:00:48 GMT -5
Cowboys don't qualify as having a top 5 line?? Just loving how they were ranked high on both sides of the ball without making the playoffs.. No one said a great oline alone will get you to the playoffs or win a SB. Without one your chances are slim to none. You're correct but he did say all 5 of the top olines were in the playoffs..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2020 16:01:29 GMT -5
Cowboys don't qualify as having a top 5 line?? Just loving how they were ranked high on both sides of the ball without making the playoffs.. They do but they didn't make the postseason so I ignored them due to their irrelevance. Fair enough..
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