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Post by GameTime on Jan 19, 2020 8:57:02 GMT -5
yeah because it dosn't work.....but many try Exactly, it wont work. No one would ever say that. So saying the opposite makes no sense to me. Every coach feels that way. Its one of those football chiches that are meaningless. I just find it funny how often its repeated here when Judge says it. Like its a new idea. Im pretty sure Shurmur and McAdoo would say the same thing. "We are going to be tough" "Not forcing square pegs in round holes" "Punch them in the nose"... Judge said a lot of better stuff than those throw away lines. its not meaningless because some coaches/coordinators try to 'force" a system on a group of players. I am excited about the new season.....and off season too
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Post by TheAnalyst on Jan 19, 2020 9:01:02 GMT -5
Exactly, it wont work. No one would ever say that. So saying the opposite makes no sense to me. Every coach feels that way. Its one of those football chiches that are meaningless. I just find it funny how often its repeated here when Judge says it. Like its a new idea. Im pretty sure Shurmur and McAdoo would say the same thing. "We are going to be tough" "Not forcing square pegs in round holes" "Punch them in the nose"... Judge said a lot of better stuff than those throw away lines. its not meaningless because some coaches/coordinators try to 'force" a system on a group of players. I am excited about the new season.....and off season too Like Bettcher did. I get that. But Bettcher didnt come in here thinking he would be forcing square pegs in round holes. I guess my point is, we need to see it. Its easy to say that, but I want to see it actually implemented which is the harder part.
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Post by GameTime on Jan 19, 2020 9:04:41 GMT -5
its not meaningless because some coaches/coordinators try to 'force" a system on a group of players. I am excited about the new season.....and off season too Like Bettcher did. I get that. But Bettcher didnt come in here thinking he would be forcing square pegs in round holes. I guess my point is, we need to see it. Its easy to say that, but I want to see it actually implemented which is the harder part. well at this point all we have are interviews and past history... cant hold them accountable for the something that hasnt happened or even had a chance to happen yet
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Post by Delicreep on Jan 19, 2020 9:17:44 GMT -5
its not meaningless because some coaches/coordinators try to 'force" a system on a group of players. I am excited about the new season.....and off season too Like Bettcher did. I get that. But Bettcher didnt come in here thinking he would be forcing square pegs in round holes. I guess my point is, we need to see it. Its easy to say that, but I want to see it actually implemented which is the harder part. Bettcher had 2 reasonably distinct disadvantages: what we will all agree is a lack of talent and a passel of rookies in positions that take years to learn. As bad as the D looked, a lot of it was tough for Bettcher to control.
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Post by Martin on Jan 19, 2020 13:09:12 GMT -5
Like Bettcher did. I get that. But Bettcher didnt come in here thinking he would be forcing square pegs in round holes. I guess my point is, we need to see it. Its easy to say that, but I want to see it actually implemented which is the harder part. Bettcher had 2 reasonably distinct disadvantages: what we will all agree is a lack of talent and a passel of rookies in positions that take years to learn. As bad as the D looked, a lot of it was tough for Bettcher to control. Having a great system doesn't mean your a great teacher. Players all learn in different ways. I would think having a great system that matches your players and the ability to be a great teacher of that system is where some coaches fall short. Possibly Bettcher is one of them.
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Post by DandyDon on Jan 19, 2020 13:36:44 GMT -5
Bettcher had 2 reasonably distinct disadvantages: what we will all agree is a lack of talent and a passel of rookies in positions that take years to learn. As bad as the D looked, a lot of it was tough for Bettcher to control. Having a great system doesn't mean your a great teacher. Players all learn in different ways. I would think having a great system that matches your players and the ability to be a great teacher of that system is where some coaches fall short. Possibly Bettcher is one of them. Our backfield regularly didn't know their assignments, all year. So either the players are either too dumb to learn it, or it is so complex that rookie (and some vets) couldn't understand it, and/or the coaches didn't teach it well. I'm thinking a combination of the three, but mostly the end/or. And mostly overall the teaching.
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Post by DandyDon on Jan 19, 2020 13:38:53 GMT -5
Having a great system doesn't mean your a great teacher. Players all learn in different ways. I would think having a great system that matches your players and the ability to be a great teacher of that system is where some coaches fall short. Possibly Bettcher is one of them. Our backfield regularly didn't know their assignments, all year. So either the players are either too dumb to learn it, or it is so complex that rookie (and some vets) couldn't understand it, and/or the coaches didn't teach it well. I'm thinking a combination of the three, but mostly the end/or. And mostly overall the teaching. I also think this might be a big reason he stressed teaching and adjusting in his presser. Because they are clearly the biggest problems we have.
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Post by Delicreep on Jan 19, 2020 13:55:06 GMT -5
Bettcher had 2 reasonably distinct disadvantages: what we will all agree is a lack of talent and a passel of rookies in positions that take years to learn. As bad as the D looked, a lot of it was tough for Bettcher to control. Having a great system doesn't mean your a great teacher. Players all learn in different ways. I would think having a great system that matches your players and the ability to be a great teacher of that system is where some coaches fall short. Possibly Bettcher is one of them. I'm certainly not saying Better was great, or that we should have kept him...or that was/is a great teacher.
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Post by OrangeGiant on Jan 19, 2020 14:07:09 GMT -5
The best coaches, to me, are the ones that scheme around the players they have and to their strengths, on offense and defense. Their game plans and the way their players are used changes depending on what team they are playing and what they like to do, or tend to do.
That's why I found it funny when some people were saying don't draft Chase Young if we have the chance because he doesn't fit our scheme. I don't think you pass up a player like that (if he reaches his potential) because he doesn't particularly fit your system. You find a way to utilize his skills, and you can run hybrid defenses to take advantage of that.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 19, 2020 18:20:22 GMT -5
The best coaches, to me, are the ones that scheme around the players they have and to their strengths, on offense and defense. Their game plans and the way their players are used changes depending on what team they are playing and what they like to do, or tend to do. That's why I found it funny when some people were saying don't draft Chase Young if we have the chance because he doesn't fit our scheme. I don't think you pass up a player like that (if he reaches his potential) because he doesn't particularly fit your system. You find a way to utilize his skills, and you can run hybrid defenses to take advantage of that. 100% on everything
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Post by Martin on Jan 19, 2020 22:19:35 GMT -5
Having a great system doesn't mean your a great teacher. Players all learn in different ways. I would think having a great system that matches your players and the ability to be a great teacher of that system is where some coaches fall short. Possibly Bettcher is one of them. I'm certainly not saying Better was great, or that we should have kept him...or that was/is a great teacher. You didn't say that no. I was just throwing it out there that successful coaches must be very good teachers especially with young players. I don't think the Giants players have had that . The defense in particular was out position on the back end continuously through out the season. There has been a disconnect for a while in this area.
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Post by Martin on Jan 19, 2020 22:21:32 GMT -5
Our backfield regularly didn't know their assignments, all year. So either the players are either too dumb to learn it, or it is so complex that rookie (and some vets) couldn't understand it, and/or the coaches didn't teach it well. I'm thinking a combination of the three, but mostly the end/or. And mostly overall the teaching. I also think this might be a big reason he stressed teaching and adjusting in his presser. Because they are clearly the biggest problems we have. I agree and would add that before taking a position with the Giants he must have watched some tape on these players.
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