|
Post by dream88 on Oct 11, 2019 9:29:03 GMT -5
Oh gotcha, we’ve already determined Jones is a bust after a bad game on a short week against the #1 D without RB1, RB2, WR1, TE1. In all fairness, Jones had had 1 good game, 1 bad game, and 2 terrible games so far. He's actually looked worse each game. I am not saying he's a bust, but to call him a bust at this point seems equal but opposite to those all saying he's our next franchisee QB. Certainly hasn't looked the part since Tampa, rookie or not. Idk, think it’s a bit of a knee-jerk overreaction to a game in which he was missing the best 3 playmakers on the offense against the #1 Defense in football. Was great against TB, looked fine against Washington, and had a few tough games and looked like a rookie against two Top 5 defenses. Not saying he’s a franchise QB yet, we don’t know it’s far too early. But to be extremely concerned after 4 games especially after we all remember what Eli looked like his entire rookie year- overreaction in my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Oct 11, 2019 9:34:22 GMT -5
In all fairness, Jones had had 1 good game, 1 bad game, and 2 terrible games so far. He's actually looked worse each game. I am not saying he's a bust, but to call him a bust at this point seems equal but opposite to those all saying he's our next franchisee QB. Certainly hasn't looked the part since Tampa, rookie or not. Idk, think it’s a bit of a knee-jerk overreaction to a game in which he was missing the best 3 playmakers on the offense against the #1 Defense in football. Was great against TB, looked fine against Washington, and had a few tough games and looked like a rookie against two Top 5 defenses. Not saying he’s a franchise QB yet, we don’t know it’s far too early. But to be extremely concerned after 4 games especially after we all remember what Eli looked like his entire rookie year- overreaction in my opinion. This entire thread is infested with low information instant gratification knee jerkers that us logical and reasonable thinking fans should be grateful aren't making the decisions with this team.
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Oct 11, 2019 9:54:52 GMT -5
Having serious doubts about Shurmer, Bettcher, Gettleman and after 3 straight bad games, Daniel Jones. maybe you should find a new team to root for, it'll make you feel better...
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 11, 2019 10:01:10 GMT -5
In all fairness, Jones had had 1 good game, 1 bad game, and 2 terrible games so far. He's actually looked worse each game. I am not saying he's a bust, but to call him a bust at this point seems equal but opposite to those all saying he's our next franchisee QB. Certainly hasn't looked the part since Tampa, rookie or not. Idk, think it’s a bit of a knee-jerk overreaction to a game in which he was missing the best 3 playmakers on the offense against the #1 Defense in football. Was great against TB, looked fine against Washington, and had a few tough games and looked like a rookie against two Top 5 defenses. Not saying he’s a franchise QB yet, we don’t know it’s far too early. But to be extremely concerned after 4 games especially after we all remember what Eli looked like his entire rookie year- overreaction in my opinion. I will point out, on top of the 2 fumbles in TB, he should have had 2 INTs if the defense held the ball. That was his great game however, and his first, he made some amazing throws. The Washington game was a mixed bag. If you are decreasing his bad play vs NE because of who we played and who was injured, then you need to decrease his his good plays vs Washington and that awful team missing a lot of players. He did throw 2 INTs in that game and should have had a 3rd if Norman held on to the ball. The last 2 games IMO were bad to terrible. Bad reads, bad decisions, forcing throws, turning it over. Sure, as pointed out, he had some great throws mixed in, but way too much bad stuff. So I do agree with the first post, its too early to claim he is a bust for sure, thats obvious, but its also way too early to anoint him the next good franchise QB most did after the TB game. Basically, it all comes down to, yeah he is a rookie so he is going to suck, but he might get better in the future... Its a thing we all just need to watch and wait.
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Oct 11, 2019 10:08:51 GMT -5
Idk, think it’s a bit of a knee-jerk overreaction to a game in which he was missing the best 3 playmakers on the offense against the #1 Defense in football. Was great against TB, looked fine against Washington, and had a few tough games and looked like a rookie against two Top 5 defenses. Not saying he’s a franchise QB yet, we don’t know it’s far too early. But to be extremely concerned after 4 games especially after we all remember what Eli looked like his entire rookie year- overreaction in my opinion. I will point out, on top of the 2 fumbles in TB, he should have had 2 INTs if the defense held the ball. That was his great game however, and his first, he made some amazing throws. The Washington game was a mixed bag. If you are decreasing his bad play vs NE because of who we played and who was injured, then you need to decrease his his good plays vs Washington and that awful team missing a lot of players. He did throw 2 INTs in that game and should have had a 3rd if Norman held on to the ball. The last 2 games IMO were bad to terrible. Bad reads, bad decisions, forcing throws, turning it over. Sure, as pointed out, he had some great throws mixed in, but way too much bad stuff. So I do agree with the first post, its too early to claim he is a bust for sure, thats obvious, but its also way too early to anoint him the next good franchise QB most did after the TB game. Basically, it all comes down to, yeah he is a rookie so he is going to suck, but he might get better in the future... Its a thing we all just need to watch and wait. I don't see much difference between Jones's play and Eli's in his first year, its what happens when you play a rookie at the QB position...
|
|
|
Post by Dogecoin on Oct 11, 2019 11:10:46 GMT -5
Jones it's too early to tell. But he is looking more "green" than advertised. Shurmur oth has been around long enough we know what he's all about; an old school by the book HC, in a new era of odds and statistics. He's basically a dunce, for lack of better word. Anyone considering odds would not be making the mistakes he does. I've rooted for teams before with coaches that just don't don't get it and are self defeating...it's a crappy feeling not having confidence in the HC with the lingering knowledge he will make bone headed decisions at critical points.
|
|
gumby
Special Teams
Posts: 1,048
|
Post by gumby on Oct 11, 2019 14:25:07 GMT -5
Question. How many QBs that are tops in the NFL had bad rookie seasons? I don't have the stats off the top of my head, but I think the really good ones all had good to decent rookie years?
|
|
southerner
Starter
Bearer of Bad News
Posts: 4,182
|
Post by southerner on Oct 11, 2019 14:28:44 GMT -5
Reading the tweets of the whiners complaining about Shurmur is hilarious....these clowns should stick to Madden and their little joy sticks.
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Oct 11, 2019 15:45:43 GMT -5
Reading the tweets of the whiners complaining about Shurmur is hilarious....these clowns should stick to Madden and their little joy sticks. no need to call other posters clowns for what they think of Shurmur. Disagree without the bullshit....thanks
|
|
|
Post by BlueReign on Oct 11, 2019 16:12:03 GMT -5
I didn't understand that screen pass to Hilliman on 3rd down. That was a head scratcher. .......not if you know football . What protections were they running , were the Patriots playing man, what personnel did the Patriots have on the field??????? I know plenty about football, thanks. And it was a bad call. Your cheeky ellipsis does nothing to further your point or validate your supposed “better knowledge” of football. Sit this one out, champ.
|
|
|
Post by Kruunch on Oct 11, 2019 18:35:37 GMT -5
Reading the tweets of the whiners complaining about Shurmur is hilarious....these clowns should stick to Madden and their little joy sticks. no need to call other posters clowns for what they think of Shurmur. Disagree without the bullshit....thanks You’re absolutely right. Next time just call them an ass****.. It has more pizzazz and it packs a punch.
|
|
|
Post by giantsforce on Oct 11, 2019 19:20:37 GMT -5
At this point, they should fire him and concede that they ****ed this one up. They did the same with McAdoo and should do it to him. This team has a structural problem. I'm not sure that they have the right guys making the big time decisions. Please do us all a favor and become a Browns fan. Ahaaaaa! I've got some news for you bud! No need to support the Browns because WE ARE the NFC's Browns. We have their former HC and their losing record! I guess you have not figured that out yet! Perhaps by the end of the season, you will.
|
|
|
Post by giantsforce on Oct 11, 2019 19:28:40 GMT -5
Ahaaaaa! I've got some news for you bud! No need to support the Browns because WE ARE the NFC's Browns. We have their former HC and their losing record! I guess you have not figured that out yet! Perhaps by the end of the season, you will. Do you even know who the Redskins are? Seems you're one of ..............them. BWF . What do the Redskins have to do with it/ They are just as dysfunctional as we are. All it matters we are heading for another losing season and you suggest that we go support another bunch of losers! Wake up man, our team is mediocre and do not be afraid to admit it. By the way, telling someone to go root for another team does not make you a better fan. It just shows that you are content with mediocrity.
|
|
|
Post by BlueReign on Oct 11, 2019 19:44:49 GMT -5
I know plenty about football, thanks. And it was a bad call. Your cheeky ellipsis does nothing to further your point or validate your supposed “better knowledge” of football. Sit this one out, champ. Never said I know more but then again I'm not the one who is questioning the professionals , they obviously know more I'm just asking for their qualifications? What I know: With Saquon Barkley that is a smart play. With Jon Hilliman, matched against an elite coverage linebacker, doesn’t work.
|
|
|
Post by BlueReign on Oct 11, 2019 23:49:26 GMT -5
What I know: With Saquon Barkley that is a smart play. With Jon Hilliman, matched against an elite coverage linebacker, doesn’t work. .......and what the pros know. Is you still have to use your run game to keep the defense honest and if Hillman is your RB you use him. Yes, 3rd and long, down by 7 in the fourth quarter is the time to keep the defense honest. You’re way out of your depth. If you’re defending that play call you clearly do not understand personnel. I actually LIKE Shurmur. But this call was nonsensical. If you can’t see that then football might not be the sport for you.
|
|
|
Post by magilla on Oct 12, 2019 2:57:15 GMT -5
Posters using “playmakers out with injury” as the reason for Pat Shurmer terrible play calling can just look back to the play calling when Saquon Barkley was healthy and playing.
It’s clear that Pat Shurmer isn’t a good HC.
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Oct 12, 2019 7:58:25 GMT -5
Oh And force a qb that wsd picked 6th by said coach people want fired because he was the perfect fit for his system to be forced into another system he might not be good in Good QBs fit in any system. Pat Shurmur is 17-37 as a HC. Clearly his “system” doesn’t work when he has to oversee a team, A few questions? What is your criteria on what a good QB is? Can you explain what doesn't work about his system? If you are going to make these claims at least tell the board why.
|
|
|
Post by Kruunch on Oct 12, 2019 9:19:15 GMT -5
Parcel's was 3-12-1 in his first year and he didn't have half the turn over in players as Shurmur has had. Biggest mistake was starting Brunner over Simms that year. Also, Bill Arnsparger started 2-12 his first year and was out two years later. Some guys just aren’t meant to be head coaches.. And Arnsparger is ranked up there as an all time great defensive coordinator.
|
|
|
Post by Dogecoin on Oct 12, 2019 9:42:36 GMT -5
Not judging him by his record ,but by his bad decision making which I've outlined in previous posts. Unfortunately that puts a ceiling on his victory total imo, don't see him ever getting past 6 wins/season, 7 if you really stretch with the best talent versus a soft schedule.
|
|
|
Post by Fletch842 on Oct 12, 2019 9:55:42 GMT -5
Parcel's was 3-12-1 in his first year and he didn't have half the turn over in players as Shurmur has had. Biggest mistake was starting Brunner over Simms that year. Also, Bill Arnsparger started 2-12 his first year and was out two years later. Some guys just aren’t meant to be head coaches.. And Arnsparger is ranked up there as an all time great defensive coordinator. There is a long long list of excellent coordinators who were lousy head coaches.
|
|
|
Post by BlueReign on Oct 12, 2019 9:56:11 GMT -5
Yes, 3rd and long, down by 7 in the fourth quarter is the time to keep the defense honest. You’re way out of your depth. If you’re defending that play call you clearly do not understand personnel. You seem to be an expert at not knowing about football so you might be right . Is this even a coherent thought? Turn off the computer and learn how to communicate properly if you enjoy talking on a message board. It’ll pay huge dividends for you.
|
|
|
Post by Parademon1 on Oct 12, 2019 11:17:21 GMT -5
All I know is that with his chances to be a playoff team this yr with a rookie at QB & a bad team in general being zero to nil, this HC should not be afraid to go for it on 4th & less than 2 & down by 2 scores. That was a chickenshit call. Nobody woulda jumped on him there going for it on 4th dn. Belichick went for it on 4th dn on their very 1st damn possession of the game when he was already in FG range I believe. He finally has a mobile/agile/athletic QB in DJ & keeps him in the pocket most of the game. Where were the rollouts & RPOs? 2 rushes for 8yds? WTF! He could've converted a few 3rd dns with his legs to keep the exhausted D on the sidelines instead of just going an Eli like 2-10 on 3rd dn. 20 min of TOP? Just threw our D to the wolves that game. I give this HC till the end of the 2020 season. 500 or better record, he stays another yr, below 500 & not showing improvement across the board, GTFOH!
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Oct 12, 2019 15:14:39 GMT -5
Question. How many QBs that are tops in the NFL had bad rookie seasons? I don't have the stats off the top of my head, but I think the really good ones all had good to decent rookie years? most QBs sit the bench in their rookie year..
|
|
|
Post by Parademon1 on Oct 12, 2019 15:46:43 GMT -5
Question. How many QBs that are tops in the NFL had bad rookie seasons? I don't have the stats off the top of my head, but I think the really good ones all had good to decent rookie years? most QBs sit the bench in their rookie year.. Really? Coulda fooled me. Back in the 70s/80s/90s, they did, not anymore. QBs drafted #1 in this age, tend to start right from the get go.
|
|
|
Post by Dogecoin on Oct 12, 2019 16:00:45 GMT -5
most QBs sit the bench in their rookie year.. Really? Coulda fooled me. Back in the 70s/80s/90s, they did, not anymore. QBs drafted #1 in this age, tend to start right from the get go. certainly seems that way, at least handed the reins at some point during rookie year. iirc last year: Mayfield - around week 3 vs Jets Allen - around week 6 Rosen - week 1 Darnold - week 1 Jackson - week 8 Likely have start week wrong for a few, but point is all started during rookie year, and didnt start afterwards only due to injury
|
|
|
Post by Sarcasman on Oct 13, 2019 0:41:07 GMT -5
Really? Coulda fooled me. Back in the 70s/80s/90s, they did, not anymore. QBs drafted #1 in this age, tend to start right from the get go. certainly seems that way, at least handed the reins at some point during rookie year. iirc last year: Mayfield - around week 3 vs Jets Allen - around week 6 Rosen - week 1 Darnold - week 1 Jackson - week 8 Likely have start week wrong for a few, but point is all started during rookie year, and didnt start afterwards only due to injury Teams throw QBs out there long before they're ready because it makes sense financially. If the QB ain't costing you a fortune, run him out there and if he doesn't swim before he's gonna cost you more, cut him. It's the new QB model.
|
|
|
Post by Fletch842 on Oct 13, 2019 5:45:16 GMT -5
There is a long long list of excellent coordinators who were lousy head coaches. Wasn't my point , there is also a long list of Coach's who have not had great starts to their careers and become pretty good HC's. We had two of those here in the Bills
|
|
|
Post by magilla on Oct 13, 2019 11:12:09 GMT -5
Posters using “playmakers out with injury” as the reason for Pat Shurmer terrible play calling Really? So with out any of the Giants personnel that were missing what plays would you have called??? I'm sure they all work in Madden. I’m sure “cut and paste” parts of quotes works for you in whatever line of work you may do but it doesn’t work here. The entire statement- “Posters using “playmakers out with injury” as the reason for Pat Shurmer terrible play calling can just look back to the play calling when Saquon Barkley was healthy and playing.” You’d already received your answer. Nice try.
|
|
|
Post by dannydimes8 on Oct 13, 2019 11:18:51 GMT -5
Bucs are about to be 2-4. That’s our “signature” win(on a missed FG).
|
|
|
Post by allnygin on Oct 13, 2019 14:37:41 GMT -5
Question. How many QBs that are tops in the NFL had bad rookie seasons? I don't have the stats off the top of my head, but I think the really good ones all had good to decent rookie years? most QBs sit the bench in their rookie year.. are you talking rookie qbs drafted out of the first round?
|
|