|
|
Post by Jomo on Oct 21, 2021 23:04:09 GMT -5
It is even sad the way they describe his duties as President and GM of the Gladiators.
He oversaw "ticker sales, operations and arena leases."
That is not how a President's job description should read.
We kind of knew all of this but it borders on depressing how far JM has pushed the lucky genes club.
Tisch may be our only hope to slap some sense into our lol "CEO"
|
|
|
|
Post by jaymas on Oct 21, 2021 23:09:09 GMT -5
Also, Tom boisture for the history buffs was a huge part of the 80s rosters. Literally led scouting that entire decade. Him, young and Parcels were basically a council of 3 on big decisions. No clue where or why we are destroying his name or his relatives. Getting desparate up in here. And a huge part of the decline and the bad drafts from 91 till Acorsi replaced him I'm pretty sure he just retired in 2000 or 2001, don't think Accorsi replaced him. |
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Oct 21, 2021 23:22:40 GMT -5
And a huge part of the decline and the bad drafts from 91 till Acorsi replaced him I'm pretty sure he just retired in 2000 or 2001, don't think Accorsi replaced him. Acorsi replaced him with Reese |
|
DJones19
Starter
Posts: 4,510
Member is Online
|
Post by DJones19 on Oct 21, 2021 23:30:11 GMT -5
Mara was part of 4 Super Bowl winning teams...so hard for me to say his resume is light.
but I'm sure he got the job through family connections like Fredo...that part must be nice.
|
|
mendy
Starter
Posts: 3,946
|
Post by mendy on Oct 22, 2021 1:34:45 GMT -5
The information and recommendations provided by Chris Mara and the entire department he oversees is what the decisions are largely based on. As posted above all the personnel directors report directly to Mara.The entire scouting department reports to Mara. Mara is also a Senior VP (one of TWO in the org - the other is Gettleman). Any way you slice it he is critical to the organization’s evaluation of players and the decisions on who to draft and sign. And he has been for almost 10 years. They are about to go through their second GM in 4 years both with solid careers in support of the GM they worked for and Gettlemen was good in Carolina it is time to clean the whole upper crust up and get someone from outside to get this place in line. I'm sure the Browns did this a few times and have won nothing . |
|
|
|
Post by myronguyton29 on Oct 22, 2021 6:25:08 GMT -5
Decided to pull up the Cardinals since they’re currently undefeated and used to be a total loser org. Let’s compare the VP of Player Personnel. I mean look at the resumes. www.giants.com/team/front-office-roster/chris-marawww.azcardinals.com/team/front-office-roster/quentin-harrisIm sure you could do this comparison with most the VPs of player personnel in the league and C Mara would have the thinnest resume out there. Limited NFL track record and no other serious executive experience. the solution starts with firing this under qualified poser get his freakin AZZZZ outta here!!!! |
|
|
|
Post by Fletch842 on Oct 22, 2021 6:41:45 GMT -5
Decided to pull up the Cardinals since they’re currently undefeated and used to be a total loser org. Let’s compare the VP of Player Personnel. I mean look at the resumes. www.giants.com/team/front-office-roster/chris-marawww.azcardinals.com/team/front-office-roster/quentin-harrisIm sure you could do this comparison with most the VPs of player personnel in the league and C Mara would have the thinnest resume out there. Limited NFL track record and no other serious executive experience. the solution starts with firing this under qualified poser get his freakin AZZZZ outta here!!!! Fredo must go!!! |
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Oct 22, 2021 8:47:18 GMT -5
Do you know who had the position before Mara? Dave Gettleman. But Chris Mara has always had a senior role in the front office since 2003, ranking just below the GM as VP of "player evaluation". So this idea that he has somehow usurped control since 2011 is just silly. the idea being silly doesn't make Chris Mara more qualified, its nepotism at its worst.. |
|
|
|
Post by myronguyton29 on Oct 22, 2021 9:12:25 GMT -5
Reading between the lines from articles about FO staff and coaches turning down Giants jobs: Other teams have turned to new ways of evaluating talent. Using analytics, taking unconscious bias out of decisions, probably 10 other things I can’t name. It takes time to change corporate infrastructure like that. To find the right personnel, custom design evaluation systems, trouble shoot and recalibrate when it doesn’t work right. Retrain and retrain and change pieces as it becomes clear that some hires just don’t fit. In 2019 when facing questions about modernized player evaluation, Gettleman famously said “we’ve hired 4 computer folks”. I don’t blame gettleman actually. It was like this when he got here. anyone using the term “computer folks” CLEARLY wasn’t hired to modernize this place. IMO, a version of gettleman will replace gettleman, a version of judge will replace judge. While other sucky franchises have found a way to keep up with how to evaluate talent in today’s NFL, we seem to be hiring guys that were more appropriate in the job 20 years ago. Don’t have hope about judge’s or gettleman’s replacements until you start reading articles about “massive internal restructuring” of the FO. If we as fans can see this, I always wonder why the Bob Papa's, The Pat Handlons, and the Carl Banks of the world don't if they haven't, or maybe someone else maybe relay some valuable advice and information to these guys. I know sometimes folks like to stay in their lane and don't say anything but damn!!! To keep just being around the same ole same ole mediocre stuff it seems to me they are comfortable with being average; heck not even average lol. But there needs to be a serious roundtable discussion!! |
|
|
|
Post by myronguyton29 on Oct 22, 2021 9:14:46 GMT -5
Reading between the lines from articles about FO staff and coaches turning down Giants jobs: Other teams have turned to new ways of evaluating talent. Using analytics, taking unconscious bias out of decisions, probably 10 other things I can’t name. It takes time to change corporate infrastructure like that. To find the right personnel, custom design evaluation systems, trouble shoot and recalibrate when it doesn’t work right. Retrain and retrain and change pieces as it becomes clear that some hires just don’t fit. In 2019 when facing questions about modernized player evaluation, Gettleman famously said “we’ve hired 4 computer folks”. I don’t blame gettleman actually. It was like this when he got here. anyone using the term “computer folks” CLEARLY wasn’t hired to modernize this place. IMO, a version of gettleman will replace gettleman, a version of judge will replace judge. While other sucky franchises have found a way to keep up with how to evaluate talent in today’s NFL, we seem to be hiring guys that were more appropriate in the job 20 years ago. Don’t have hope about judge’s or gettleman’s replacements until you start reading articles about “massive internal restructuring” of the FO. Yes. The only organization that did this level of change in recent memory that I can think of no is the Browns. The Browns were completely broken as a football operation for decades. Sashi Brown gutted Cleveland, sold off all their players, and put a rube as HC while he continued to put the new organization in place. They conceded the football field for those years and were beyond horrible. Sashi was vilified. But today the Browns are a modern NFL franchise. Many of Sashis hires and processes are still in place. The team is competitive. This was an organization that went from truly nothing…no pedigree (the real Browns are the Baltimore Ravens), no tradition, no success. I’m not saying it’s the model to follow…simply that I think the Giants are facing a similar reckoning. They have not kept with the times and have missed the boat to be able to “tweak” their way to success. Like Cleveland their operation is broken to the core. They have to do an independent audit of everything they do and gut the organization. Frankly I don’t think John Mara has it in him. smdh he better find it!! |
|
|
|
Post by thetruth on Oct 22, 2021 9:29:02 GMT -5
It’s not that he’s usurped control. It’s that the entire player evaluation team reports to him. He is in the reporting line for the scouts and the pro personnel guys evaluating current league players. I’m not gonna argue about how much control he has or doesn’t have but if you don’t think the guy is one of the biggest influences on the Giants player evaluation process and decisions in the building then you’re dreaming. I’d recommend going around and reading up on the VP of player personnel for other teams around the league to get an idea of e role this position plays in an org. It's different in every organization, but Chris Mara is 3rd in the chain of command behind Kevin Abrams. He reports directly to he and Gettleman. So no, I don't believe he is one of the most influential people in the building. Thats fine, its not a 'believe' thing though. It kind of is it what it is. |
|
|
|
Post by trueblueatnyc on Oct 22, 2021 9:49:08 GMT -5
I'm all for an organizational restructure. But, we have to work in the realm of reality. And in reality, Chris Mara is in fact highly qualified for the position he currently holds. Seems the OP didn't read the bio beyond the initial first couple of lines. But, C. Mara was in scouting and pro personnel in the organization, including during many winning periods, for like 20 years and co founded a scouting group that many teams still use today. You can say he's bad at his job, going by our drafting success it'd be fair to say, but to say he was not qualified at the time of his hiring is simply false.
|
|
jerky
Special Teams
Posts: 1,049 
|
Post by jerky on Oct 22, 2021 9:53:34 GMT -5
I don't understand. Looking at the two resumes, it seems that Chris Mara has much more experience. He had his 14 years of scouting experience done in the 90s (starting in 1979), and then 20 more years of other experience. Why does his resume seem "lighter" than Quentin's? The only thing that Chris lacks is being an NFL player, but I'm sure many people in the scouting department can claim that.
|
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Oct 22, 2021 9:57:00 GMT -5
It's different in every organization, but Chris Mara is 3rd in the chain of command behind Kevin Abrams. He reports directly to he and Gettleman. So no, I don't believe he is one of the most influential people in the building. Thats fine, its not a 'believe' thing though. It kind of is it what it is. And what it is, is a made-up fan theory that's unconfirmed by the people who cover the team. The fact is he's beneath Dave and Kevin in the decision-making process. |
|
te88
Special Teams
Posts: 1,991
|
Post by te88 on Oct 22, 2021 9:59:27 GMT -5
I don't understand. Looking at the two resumes, it seems that Chris Mara has much more experience. He had his 14 years of scouting experience done in the 90s (starting in 1979), and then 20 more years of other experience. Why does his resume seem "lighter" than Quentin's? The only thing that Chris lacks is being an NFL player, but I'm sure many people in the scouting department can claim that. He was a scout in the 80s, ran a lame scouting service and worked with an arena team. He doesn’t have meaningful NFL experience with a successful team in the last 21 years at least. As usual the Giants look to the past …. The friggin 80s to justify someone’s qualifications Please remove 1980s football people from this organization. It’s 2021 People resting on their laurels in scouting from the 80s and 90s should be RETIRING at this point. It has been 30-40 YEARS. We do not need perspectives that haven’t kept with the times in this process. |
|
|
|
Post by thetruth on Oct 22, 2021 9:59:39 GMT -5
Thats fine, its not a 'believe' thing though. It kind of is it what it is. And what it is, is a made-up fan theory that's unconfirmed by the people who cover the team. The fact is he's beneath Dave and Kevin in the decision-making process. You think the Giants Senior Vice President of Player Personnel and part owner of the team doesn't have that much influence. I think you're not thinking much, is all. Perhaps over thinking it? like I said, it is what is. |
|
|
|
Post by thetruth on Oct 22, 2021 10:01:14 GMT -5
You can also add Petit, amoung a host of others to decision making along with this baffoon.
They all have their say, but only one of them is a part owner.
|
|
te88
Special Teams
Posts: 1,991
|
Post by te88 on Oct 22, 2021 10:09:04 GMT -5
You can also add Petit, amoung a host of others to decision making along with this baffoon. They all have their say, but only one of them is a part owner. Mara is Petits direct boss on paper. Personnel department flows through Mara. Then Mara as senior VP makes up a kind of triumvirate with Gettleman and Abrams (Abrams is a VP, only Gettleman and Mara are senior VPs). And of course everything needs the nod from John to proceed. But the main point is that day to day, year round, Chris Mara sets the direction and strategic plan for the entire personnel department. Where I work there are people above me who act completely on the information and recommendations that I provide them. Yeah it’s their decision but they know jack without my support. This is just how it works with big organizations. And you know what? 99% of the time they do what I recommend. Pretending like the position of Senior VP Player Personnel has minimal impact on the org is just plain silly. |
|
|
|
Post by thetruth on Oct 22, 2021 10:28:40 GMT -5
You can also add Petit, amoung a host of others to decision making along with this baffoon. They all have their say, but only one of them is a part owner. Mara is Petits direct boss on paper. Personnel department flows through Mara. Then Mara as senior VP makes up a kind of triumvirate with Gettleman and Abrams (Abrams is a VP, only Gettleman and Mara are senior VPs). And of course everything needs the nod from John to proceed. But the main point is that day to day, year round, Chris Mara sets the direction and strategic plan for the entire personnel department. Where I work there are people above me who act completely on the information and recommendations that I provide them. Yeah it’s their decision but they know jack without my support. This is just how it works with big organizations. And you know what? 99% of the time they do what I recommend. Pretending like the position of Senior VP Player Personnel has minimal impact on the org is just plain silly.Correct, im in the same boat with what I do. Giants need better decision makers. Clean house and start fresh. |
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Oct 22, 2021 10:35:47 GMT -5
And what it is, is a made-up fan theory that's unconfirmed by the people who cover the team. The fact is he's beneath Dave and Kevin in the decision-making process. I think you're not thinking much, is all. Perhaps over thinking it? like I said, it is what is. I didn't say that. I said he doesn't have more say than Gettleman or Abrams. And to clarify, if Dave goes, all three should go. |
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Oct 22, 2021 10:36:48 GMT -5
Mara is Petits direct boss on paper. Personnel department flows through Mara. Then Mara as senior VP makes up a kind of triumvirate with Gettleman and Abrams (Abrams is a VP, only Gettleman and Mara are senior VPs). And of course everything needs the nod from John to proceed. But the main point is that day to day, year round, Chris Mara sets the direction and strategic plan for the entire personnel department. Where I work there are people above me who act completely on the information and recommendations that I provide them. Yeah it’s their decision but they know jack without my support. This is just how it works with big organizations. And you know what? 99% of the time they do what I recommend. Pretending like the position of Senior VP Player Personnel has minimal impact on the org is just plain silly.Correct, im in the same boat with what I do. Giants need better decision makers. Clean house and start fresh. Unfortunately it's a lot easier when one of the major decision makers doesn't share the same last name as the main owner. 😞 |
|
|
|
Post by thetruth on Oct 22, 2021 10:44:20 GMT -5
Correct, im in the same boat with what I do. Giants need better decision makers. Clean house and start fresh. Unfortunately it's a lot easier when one of the major decision makers doesn't share the same last name as the main owner. 😞 most organizations have tons of 'hidden' nepotism/cronyism The giants? they dont even try hiding it, haha. |
|
|
|
Post by thetruth on Oct 22, 2021 10:45:08 GMT -5
You think the Giants Senior Vice President of Player Personnel and part owner of the team doesn't have that much influence. I think you're not thinking much, is all. Perhaps over thinking it? like I said, it is what is. I didn't say that. I said he doesn't have more say than Gettleman or Abrams. And to clarify, if Dave goes, all three should go. Then we agree. I think Dave has final say, and its why i've been as hard on him as I have. |
|
|
|
Post by imgrate on Oct 22, 2021 10:53:30 GMT -5
Correct, im in the same boat with what I do. Giants need better decision makers. Clean house and start fresh. Unfortunately it's a lot easier when one of the major decision makers doesn't share the same last name as the main owner. 😞 "Fredo" nickname has caught on, you started a trend man, look at all posters that are using it in this thread alone ! |
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Oct 22, 2021 10:54:15 GMT -5
I didn't say that. I said he doesn't have more say than Gettleman or Abrams. And to clarify, if Dave goes, all three should go. Then we agree. I think Dave has final say, and its why i've been as hard on him as I have. Well yeah, why are we blaming Dave if Chris is the real culprit? But removing Dave and promoting Abrams is just making a scapegoat while still following the team's hierarchy process. It doesn't acknowledge fault the way we are running things, and really doesn't change anything. They would need to fire all the VP's responsible for all the personnel decisions over the past 4 years. |
|
|
|
Post by thetruth on Oct 22, 2021 10:55:19 GMT -5
Then we agree. I think Dave has final say, and its why i've been as hard on him as I have. Well yeah, why are we blaming Dave if Chris is the real culprit? But removing Dave and promoting Abrams is just making a scapegoat while still following the team's hierarchy process. It doesn't acknowledge fault the way we are running things, and really doesn't change anything. they're all morons. |
|
|
|
Post by jaymas on Oct 22, 2021 11:34:08 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure he just retired in 2000 or 2001, don't think Accorsi replaced him. Acorsi replaced him with Reese Can't find anything that he was fired only that he retired. Regardless...it seems revisionist to make him out to be a problem when for most of his tenure he was very successful and considered innovative. |
|
