mj312
Special Teams
Posts: 1,131
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Post by mj312 on Nov 23, 2021 17:56:10 GMT -5
We’re staring at our 5th HC in 6 years and our 3rd GM in 5. You’ve got ownership that threw their GM and coach under the bus over the Eli thing, we have rumours that the ownership meddles in decisions that they then hold others accountable for. McAdoo is a consultant, Reese is out of football, Shurmer is a coordinator. This place kills careers and it’s run be a family that is a case study in bad leadership. If you’re a sought after new coach with a bright future, or a successful experienced coach with market value looking for a new gig, or an experienced GM, trusted by other NFL owners, thats built successful franchises……. Why on God’s green earth would you come here? “B” leaders hire “C” talent. That’s a saying for a reason. If Garrett gets fired in season it’s because of fan pressure. Nothing more. Until that fan pressure focuses on ownership to step back from running this franchise, NOTHING about this franchise will improve. Great post .. few players or coaches have come here over the last 10 years and actually thrived .. the giants kill careers of coaches and of players .. the only way any rational coach would come here is if there are zero other opportunities for them .. at this point its just not a great career move unless your jobless .. look back at all of the players that have been here over the last 10 years … how many can you actually think of that excelled and played better than expected under the Ny Giants ? I can think of victor cruz.. very few players develop here ..
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 23, 2021 17:59:53 GMT -5
We’re staring at our 5th HC in 6 years and our 3rd GM in 5. You’ve got ownership that threw their GM and coach under the bus over the Eli thing, we have rumours that the ownership meddles in decisions that they then hold others accountable for. McAdoo is a consultant, Reese is out of football, Shurmer is a coordinator. This place kills careers and it’s run be a family that is a case study in bad leadership. If you’re a sought after new coach with a bright future, or a successful experienced coach with market value looking for a new gig, or an experienced GM, trusted by other NFL owners, thats built successful franchises……. Why on God’s green earth would you come here? “B” leaders hire “C” talent. That’s a saying for a reason. If Garrett gets fired in season it’s because of fan pressure. Nothing more. Until that fan pressure focuses on ownership to step back from running this franchise, NOTHING about this franchise will improve. Great post .. few players or coaches have come here over the last 10 years and actually thrived .. the giants kill careers of coaches and of players .. the only way any rational coach would come here is if there are zero other opportunities for them .. at this point its just not a great career move unless your jobless .. look back at all of the players that have been here over the last 10 years … how many can you actually think of that excelled and played better than expected under the Ny Giants ? I can think of victor cruz.. very few players develop here .. and the ones that do have their careers story circuted by injuries
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Post by Jomo on Nov 23, 2021 18:15:29 GMT -5
I don't know how a top flight GM would come here given the relationship with ownership and lack of key authorities, like picking your own HC. We are only going to attract re-treads and guys who would take any GM slot to build their resumes. And how can any GM build a resume that shows anything other than failure when you have to answer to someone above you that isn't qualified to hold a position like this ? I think if you are a special teams coach and can add GM to your resume, you can explain away "the Giants, you know dysfunctional front office, odd ownership and governance structure, not set up to win. I was naiive and thought I could change it but I wanted to draft X player and was over ruled by the owner who wanted Y player" "I learned from the experience and will find the right spot my second time around" "you know Bill Bellichick had the same issue in Cleveland." I think a wet behind the ears coach can explain away one mistake in joining the Giants. On the other hand he gets to put GM NFL on the growing resume. We are screwed and will not get first cut kind of guys.
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 23, 2021 18:17:00 GMT -5
And how can any GM build a resume that shows anything other than failure when you have to answer to someone above you that isn't qualified to hold a position like this ? I think if you are a special teams coach and can add GM to your resume, you can explain away "the Giants, you know dysfunctional front office, odd ownership and governance structure, not set up to win. I was naiive and thought I could change it but I wanted to draft X player and was over ruled by the owner who wanted Y player" "I learned from the experience and will find the right spot my second time around" "you know Bill Bellichick had the same issue in Cleveland." I think a wet behind the ears coach can explain away one mistake in joining the Giants. On the other hand he gets to put GM NFL on the growing resume. We are screwed and will not get first cut kind of guys. True Sad but true
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Post by Kruunch on Nov 23, 2021 18:59:35 GMT -5
The same reason why we have people who pick up shit for a living. It’s work.. And as bad of an organization they have been over the years, the brand still holds a lot of clout. We as fans mock this franchise mercifully, but there are men out there who will give their left nut for a crack at working here. Winning here as a head coach is like no other. You punched your ticket for free steak dinners and drinks for the rest of your life in the tri state area. All you need to do is appease the starved fanbase, fight off the jackals.. We call them the media around here. Keep the overbearing owner at arms length, he likes to think he’s a football man. And last but not least. Win at all costs.
Now being a general manager is a completely different animal. You get your own office, and secretary. You get to pick your own players, but you need to ask the tyrannical owner if that player is above your pay scale. Look at it like asking your dad to take the car out.. You don’t have to hire a head coach, just be in the room and make sure the coffee is hot. If you like being a doormat with a nice salary, this is the job for you.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2021 19:08:32 GMT -5
We’re staring at our 5th HC in 6 years and our 3rd GM in 5. You’ve got ownership that threw their GM and coach under the bus over the Eli thing, we have rumours that the ownership meddles in decisions that they then hold others accountable for. McAdoo is a consultant, Reese is out of football, Shurmer is a coordinator. This place kills careers and it’s run be a family that is a case study in bad leadership. If you’re a sought after new coach with a bright future, or a successful experienced coach with market value looking for a new gig, or an experienced GM, trusted by other NFL owners, thats built successful franchises……. Why on God’s green earth would you come here? “B” leaders hire “C” talent. That’s a saying for a reason. If Garrett gets fired in season it’s because of fan pressure. Nothing more. Until that fan pressure focuses on ownership to step back from running this franchise, NOTHING about this franchise will improve. Don’t think that other league owners don’t know what a fiasco our front office is. I’m sure Mara is the ridicule of all when he leaves the evening cocktail parties. In reality the answer is this…a coach with a huge ego would come here. A coach that wants to demonstrate to the whole league how he rebuilt the “impossible to rebuild New York Giants.” A coach that wants to throw that on his resume would be looking to be a GM somewhere else. That is who would come here. Think about it. If you walked into our facility and successfully dealt with this entire family and front office and somehow managed to build this team into Big Blue Wrecking Crew Part II, what would you demand?
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giantsalmon
Starter
Came over from a defunct board. Formerly LakeO Giant fan
Posts: 3,900
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Post by giantsalmon on Nov 23, 2021 21:10:15 GMT -5
I don't want Abrams. I do think an outsider would come in to NYG GM spot--and try to create a legacy for himself. There IS talent to work with but it's currently a ship without a rudder. Building the O line means building it with depth. Having two 1st round picks and being at least open minded about the players already here is attractive.
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Post by KingCap88 on Nov 24, 2021 2:35:11 GMT -5
The Giants being one of the league's foundational teams and being in the NY Market will still carry some clout for some good HCs. But with that said, the Giants are starting to head into Jets' level dysfunction and if they don't get their act together soon they will start being seen as the 'Jets in blue uniforms' and I'm sure that would make Wellington Mara roll over in his grave
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Post by cdngfan on Nov 24, 2021 7:35:23 GMT -5
We’re staring at our 5th HC in 6 years and our 3rd GM in 5. You’ve got ownership that threw their GM and coach under the bus over the Eli thing, we have rumours that the ownership meddles in decisions that they then hold others accountable for. McAdoo is a consultant, Reese is out of football, Shurmer is a coordinator. This place kills careers and it’s run be a family that is a case study in bad leadership. If you’re a sought after new coach with a bright future, or a successful experienced coach with market value looking for a new gig, or an experienced GM, trusted by other NFL owners, thats built successful franchises……. Why on God’s green earth would you come here? “B” leaders hire “C” talent. That’s a saying for a reason. If Garrett gets fired in season it’s because of fan pressure. Nothing more. Until that fan pressure focuses on ownership to step back from running this franchise, NOTHING about this franchise will improve. Don’t think that other league owners don’t know what a fiasco our front office is. I’m sure Mara is the ridicule of all when he leaves the evening cocktail parties. In reality the answer is this…a coach with a huge ego would come here. A coach that wants to demonstrate to the whole league how he rebuilt the “impossible to rebuild New York Giants.” A coach that wants to throw that on his resume would be looking to be a GM somewhere else. That is who would come here. Think about it. If you walked into our facility and successfully dealt with this entire family and front office and somehow managed to build this team into Big Blue Wrecking Crew Part II, what would you demand? I hope you’re right and I’m wrong. I think truly talented people are much more calculated in their decisions. Most of them want to win more than conquer unscalable mountains. Reese/Gettleman/? McAdoo/Shurmer/Judge/? It’s hard to picture an impressive name getting added to either one of those lists. Which makes me fear that this nightmare is a long long way from being over. Rich Eisen was quoting our record over the last 5 years. That feels like 1/3 of the way through this mess.
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Post by cdngfan on Nov 24, 2021 7:37:25 GMT -5
The Giants being one of the league's foundational teams and being in the NY Market will still carry some clout for some good HCs. But with that said, the Giants are starting to head into Jets' level dysfunction and if they don't get their act together soon they will start being seen as the 'Jets in blue uniforms' and I'm sure that would make Wellington Mara roll over in his grave Yeah, I think we’re there. 5th coach in 6 years. Hard to think a sought after coach with good agents would come here.
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Post by cdngfan on Nov 24, 2021 7:45:34 GMT -5
The same reason why we have people who pick up shit for a living. It’s work.. And as bad of an organization they have been over the years, the brand still holds a lot of clout. We as fans mock this franchise mercifully, but there are men out there who will give their left nut for a crack at working here. Winning here as a head coach is like no other. You punched your ticket for free steak dinners and drinks for the rest of your life in the tri state area. All you need to do is appease the starved fanbase, fight off the jackals.. We call them the media around here. Keep the overbearing owner at arms length, he likes to think he’s a football man. And last but not least. Win at all costs. Now being a general manager is a completely different animal. You get your own office, and secretary. You get to pick your own players, but you need to ask the tyrannical owner if that player is above your pay scale. Look at it like asking your dad to take the car out.. You don’t have to hire a head coach, just be in the room and make sure the coffee is hot. If you like being a doormat with a nice salary, this is the job for you. Judge/Shurmer/McAdoo would give their left nut to work here. That’s exactly my fear. The people who dream of being the NYG HC can’t turn this place around. And the ones that can don’t see the upside as offsetting the downside. if you’re not successful this place doesn’t look like a resume builder. You fail here, it doesn’t look like you get a shot somewhere else. Spags is the closest thing we have to someone who thrived after being here but that list is really short.
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giantsalmon
Starter
Came over from a defunct board. Formerly LakeO Giant fan
Posts: 3,900
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Post by giantsalmon on Nov 24, 2021 14:43:36 GMT -5
The same reason why we have people who pick up shit for a living. It’s work.. And as bad of an organization they have been over the years, the brand still holds a lot of clout. We as fans mock this franchise mercifully, but there are men out there who will give their left nut for a crack at working here. Winning here as a head coach is like no other. You punched your ticket for free steak dinners and drinks for the rest of your life in the tri state area. All you need to do is appease the starved fanbase, fight off the jackals.. We call them the media around here. Keep the overbearing owner at arms length, he likes to think he’s a football man. And last but not least. Win at all costs. Now being a general manager is a completely different animal. You get your own office, and secretary. You get to pick your own players, but you need to ask the tyrannical owner if that player is above your pay scale. Look at it like asking your dad to take the car out.. You don’t have to hire a head coach, just be in the room and make sure the coffee is hot. If you like being a doormat with a nice salary, this is the job for you. Judge/Shurmer/McAdoo would give their left nut to work here. That’s exactly my fear. The people who dream of being the NYG HC can’t turn this place around. And the ones that can don’t see the upside as offsetting the downside. if you’re not successful this place doesn’t look like a resume builder. You fail here, it doesn’t look like you get a shot somewhere else. Spags is the closest thing we have to someone who thrived after being here but that list is really short. I feel that we should give Judge a shot without the one guy who got hired around him--you know, the training wheels guy. Judge had zero history with Garrett. Now if Offense looks like a shit show the rest of the season then yes--include him with Shurmur(who failed in Cleveland) and McAdoo(who may have been a football guy but not a leader of men) There are many examples of HCs who build a staff around them that they can find synergy with. It's time to see if this ship can be righted--theres more than one way to skin a cat.
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Post by KingCap88 on Nov 27, 2021 2:00:37 GMT -5
The Giants being one of the league's foundational teams and being in the NY Market will still carry some clout for some good HCs. But with that said, the Giants are starting to head into Jets' level dysfunction and if they don't get their act together soon they will start being seen as the 'Jets in blue uniforms' and I'm sure that would make Wellington Mara roll over in his grave Yeah, I think we’re there. 5th coach in 6 years. Hard to think a sought after coach with good agents would come here. Good points. Can't really disagree.
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Post by TCHOF on Nov 27, 2021 13:25:20 GMT -5
Look out for Scott Pioli.
He is available and is related to Parcells (and thus has the Giants connection that is a Mara requirement).
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Post by keyofgmen on Nov 27, 2021 13:31:23 GMT -5
Ya, because anyone would turn down the GM job of the NYFG...
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Post by SG88 on Nov 27, 2021 13:50:06 GMT -5
Look out for Scott Pioli. He is available and is related to Parcells (and thus has the Giants connection that is a Mara requirement). The Giants are the nepotism kings of the world.
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 27, 2021 14:02:05 GMT -5
Look out for Scott Pioli. He is available and is related to Parcells (and thus has the Giants connection that is a Mara requirement). I don't remember him being any good outside of being Belichick's side guy ?
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Post by TCHOF on Nov 27, 2021 14:05:23 GMT -5
Look out for Scott Pioli. He is available and is related to Parcells (and thus has the Giants connection that is a Mara requirement). I don't remember him being any good outside of being Belichick's side guy ? I don’t disagree, but Mara ….
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Post by McCherry on Nov 27, 2021 14:11:27 GMT -5
Look out for Scott Pioli. He is available and is related to Parcells (and thus has the Giants connection that is a Mara requirement). I don't remember him being any good outside of being Belichick's side guy ? He did turn down a request for an interview once before in 2007, right before Reese got the job. I can’t imagine he’d feel any different now.
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 27, 2021 14:16:38 GMT -5
I don't remember him being any good outside of being Belichick's side guy ? He did turn down a request for an interview once before in 2007, right before Reese got the job. I can’t imagine he’d feel any different now. I wonder why ....(seeing Fredo sitting there and a list of Giants way rules he has to follow) Didn't he get a job with Atlanta when they got Ryan?That wasn't a bad team actually...
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Post by Fletch842 on Nov 27, 2021 14:22:16 GMT -5
Look out for Scott Pioli. He is available and is related to Parcells (and thus has the Giants connection that is a Mara requirement). I don't remember him being any good outside of being Belichick's side guy ? He's great on NFL network or is it bspn?
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Post by SG88 on Nov 27, 2021 14:27:41 GMT -5
There really is no reason why they would come here. The Giants have too many drawbacks. What I mean by drawbacks are things that you can't do anything about. Those drawbacks are both Maras. No GM with clout is going to come here and be held by the balls by John and Fredo.
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Post by Delicreep on Nov 27, 2021 14:29:48 GMT -5
I am sure candidates will turn the Giants down, certain that they will be able to nail one of the hundreds of other open GM positions available elsewhere in the NFL.
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Post by Delicreep on Nov 27, 2021 14:32:50 GMT -5
There really is no reason why they would come here. The Giants have too many drawbacks. What I mean by drawbacks are things that you can't do anything about. Those drawbacks are both Maras. No GM with clout is going to come here and be held by the balls by John and Fredo. While not disputing anything in your post, I don't believe that any other open GM position will come without most, if not all of those issues. Not for nothing, no GM candidate doesn't have a Giant ego...and those dudes all think they are the one...the only one...that can fix a lost cause. And there's always, always money!
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 27, 2021 15:50:32 GMT -5
the Giants may have to sweeten the pot considerably by offering more money than they usually do in order for any decent quality GM or HC for that matter to come here.
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Post by Jomo on Nov 27, 2021 16:41:01 GMT -5
I think if you are a special teams coach and can add HC to your resume, you can explain away "the Giants, you know dysfunctional front office, odd ownership and governance structure, not set up to win. I was naiive and thought I could change it but I wanted to draft X player and was over ruled by the owner who wanted Y player" "I learned from the experience and will find the right spot my second time around" "you know Bill Bellichick had the same issue in Cleveland." I think a wet behind the ears coach can explain away one mistake in joining the Giants. On the other hand he gets to put GM NFL on the growing resume. We are screwed and will not get first cut kind of guys. True Sad but true
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Post by ratbastich on Nov 27, 2021 16:52:19 GMT -5
The reason why you have people come in is because they think they can turn things around even if the risk may be high. The amount of reputation they would gain would be enormous. Don't forget that the Patriots that became a dynasty were a crap team for years. The Browns up until the last couple of years were known as where players and coaches go to die. The Rams were pretty bad, got good, got bad again and now are one of the stronger teams out there.
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 27, 2021 16:53:53 GMT -5
The reason why you have people come in is because they think they can turn things around even if the risk may be high. The amount of reputation they would gain would be enormous. Don't forget that the Patriots that became a dynasty were a crap team for years. The Browns up until the last couple of years were known as where players and coaches go to die. The Rams were pretty bad, got good, got bad again and now are one of the stronger teams out there. Kraft chased away Parcells and gave up on Carrol despite 2 winning seasons (including a playoff year)...
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