southerner
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Post by southerner on Dec 8, 2021 12:33:17 GMT -5
I hate how Mara has once again put us in this weird-ass predicament where the Coach and GM will now be on a different timeline. I"m not positive it will lower the talent pool at GM, but it just makes sense. Not to many GMs are going to want to come here with a HC already in place that they may not jive with 100%. Oh well, guess we'lll see how this nightmare unfolds this offseason. It will be quick if they wait that long….Black Monday be the Mara’s start point for finding a new GM and HC. Hopefully, on the day he announces the firings, he will also announce and identify the third party(s) to be used to hire the new GM, who will then hire a new HC of his choosing alone. |
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Post by Rangers13 on Dec 8, 2021 12:35:56 GMT -5
Ty - i mean if you are an incoming coach. I look for O line and a run stopper ,everything else we have. Surround myself with the smartest /best football people I know. well, the mob and win/losses aren’t changing with that. I need OL to block, defenders to stop the run and a pass rush - see Jane run. Com’on, the roster issues go well beyond See Jane run |
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Post by spaceweather on Dec 8, 2021 12:42:01 GMT -5
I would be shocked if Judge is fired. Not saying I don’t think he should be, I just don’t see it happening. We all know he should be but we also know he won't be. Which really is the worst part of this operation... We (anyone with a brain) knew the Gettleman hire was not the right one, still hired him. He should've been gone after two years, they kept him. We know Judge just isn't the guy, they'll keep him while letting him help pick GM. We all see the disaster coming but only John Mara can't. |
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southerner
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Post by southerner on Dec 8, 2021 12:47:06 GMT -5
Because he sat there , with Gettleman, and made it happen. Gettleman was not alone in his horrid drafts & free agent signings….Mara and Judge were right there with him for the last two. The real disaster last year was the free agent signing and first round drafting of two WRs who get injured taking a shower, to go along with a veteran Giant WR who is even more fragile than they are……very shrewd roster building there. Gettleman was here before Judge so that’s impossible. Judge wasn’t even here for the Barkley or Jones drafts. Ridiculous Oh no, Judge brought in the clapper to be OC, who took Jones from being a possible franchise QB, to a stop gap and soon to be journeyman backup. Every part of the Giants team got worse under Judge, except occasional spurts from the defense, thanks to the DC. In Short Judge took a bad team with some hope and made them a no future cellar dweller team….worst head coach the Giants have had in many, many years. |
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Dec 8, 2021 12:47:21 GMT -5
I look for O line and a run stopper ,everything else we have. Surround myself with the smartest /best football people I know. well, the mob and win/losses aren’t changing with that. I need OL to block, defenders to stop the run and a pass rush - see Jane run. Com’on, the roster issues go well beyond See Jane run See that's the problem with "the mob" they think that but IMO it's not. It's O line and run stop add a healthy Martinez and one good backer and it's in good shape. |
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Dec 8, 2021 12:50:57 GMT -5
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Post by Rangers13 on Dec 8, 2021 12:51:36 GMT -5
well, the mob and win/losses aren’t changing with that. I need OL to block, defenders to stop the run and a pass rush - see Jane run. Com’on, the roster issues go well beyond See Jane run See that's the problem with "the mob" they think that but IMO it's not. It's O line and run stop add a healthy Martinez and one good backer and it's in good shape. wait, the debate is what coach would come here. You post as if this is no-brainer. You have no cap space, a QB which doesn’t appear to be the answer, a HB who doesn’t run straight, one LT, no pass rushers and on your 4th coach since 2016. You answer is acknowledging it’s the OL, find a run stopper and add Martinez? You have three picks within two rounds to fix this mess, yet not acknowledge and hope. That’s why i can’t see what coach come here. It’s literally impossible for 2022 imo. |
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Dec 8, 2021 12:54:03 GMT -5
See that's the problem with "the mob" they think that but IMO it's not. It's O line and run stop add a healthy Martinez and one good backer and it's in good shape. wait, the debate is what coach would come here. You post as if this is no-brainer. You have no cap space, a QB which doesn’t appear to be the answer, a HB who doesn’t run straight, one LT, no pass rushers and on your 4th coach since 2016. You answer is acknowledging it’s the OL, find a run stopper and add Martinez? You have three picks within two rounds to fix this mess, yet not acknowledge and hope. That’s why i can’t see what coach come here. It’s literally impossible for 2022 imo. No , you have 10/ 11 picks and yes everyone else is under contract. . In 2023 I will have a good amount of cap room. |
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Post by jmike on Dec 8, 2021 12:59:50 GMT -5
I hate how Mara has once again put us in this weird-ass predicament where the Coach and GM will now be on a different timeline. I"m not positive it will lower the talent pool at GM, but it just makes sense. Not to many GMs are going to want to come here with a HC already in place that they may not jive with 100%. Oh well, guess we'lll see how this nightmare unfolds this offseason. They might if they are given the power to replace that HC after the season if things don't jive right. |
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Post by Rangers13 on Dec 8, 2021 13:05:26 GMT -5
wait, the debate is what coach would come here. You post as if this is no-brainer. You have no cap space, a QB which doesn’t appear to be the answer, a HB who doesn’t run straight, one LT, no pass rushers and on your 4th coach since 2016. You answer is acknowledging it’s the OL, find a run stopper and add Martinez? You have three picks within two rounds to fix this mess, yet not acknowledge and hope. That’s why i can’t see what coach come here. It’s literally impossible for 2022 imo. No , you have 10/ 11 picks and yes everyone else is under contract. . In 2023 I will have a good amount of cap room. so two players fixes the OL, run defense and pass rush? Not to mention the QB facing a 5th year option and has shown nothing along with the HB. Yeah, ok. Yeah, i’m sure the coaches will be lining up at the door. |
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Dec 8, 2021 13:09:49 GMT -5
No , you have 10/ 11 picks and yes everyone else is under contract. . In 2023 I will have a good amount of cap room. so two players fixes the OL, run defense and pass rush? Not to mention the QB facing a 5th year option and has shown nothing along with the HB. Yeah, ok. Yeah, i’m sure the coaches will be lining up at the door. ? how do you get two players out of 10/11 draft picks? Your question was what would I do ,not what would other Coach's do. Yes many a Coach would love to Coach the NY Giants. |
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Post by DandyDon on Dec 8, 2021 13:11:27 GMT -5
JJ is not getting fired this year.
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Post by jmike on Dec 8, 2021 13:12:53 GMT -5
JJ is not getting fired this year. Pretty thick limb there, since next year is less than a month away. |
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Post by allnygin on Dec 8, 2021 13:14:47 GMT -5
I hate how Mara has once again put us in this weird-ass predicament where the Coach and GM will now be on a different timeline. I"m not positive it will lower the talent pool at GM, but it just makes sense. Not to many GMs are going to want to come here with a HC already in place that they may not jive with 100%. Oh well, guess we'lll see how this nightmare unfolds this offseason. They might if they are given the power to replace that HC after the season if things don't jive right. Ideally. |
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Post by Rangers13 on Dec 8, 2021 13:15:17 GMT -5
so two players fixes the OL, run defense and pass rush? Not to mention the QB facing a 5th year option and has shown nothing along with the HB. Yeah, ok. Yeah, i’m sure the coaches will be lining up at the door. ? how do you get two players out of 10/11 draft picks? Your question was what would I do ,not what would other Coach's do. Yes many a Coach would love to Coach the NY Giants. sry, i thought you meant the Giants would be picking 10th and 11th. Yes, they have many picks but inside of the top two Rounds is about all the help you’re getting. Especially considering how the Round 3 picks have missed historically with this franchise. I don’t see anybody wanting to come here. The Giants are like an expansion team with no cap space and there doesn’t appear to be a franchise QB in this upcoming draft. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2021 13:37:15 GMT -5
He will be here in 2022. Judge was hired KNOWING he was an experiment that would take years to figure out. He was raw and had zero HC experience. Zero. It might have been a huge mistake hiring him, which every game that passes seems more and more likely, but they should NOT fire him already. They made their bed with him. I would honestly be more angered by this team if the fire him in year 2 than if they keep him for year 3. Every time they fire these coaches makes the HC position here even less desirable. McAdoo 2years, Shurmur 2 years, Now Judge 2 years? Give me a break. No coach can make this work in only 2 years. He should get 1 more year. Now, if he wants to move on from DJ, fine. If DG gets fired, great. But Judge should be here. And personally I think DJ should get 1 more year too due to the available options in 2022. New GM will be as less desirable if he can’t bring in his own coach....team is in a mess |
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Post by DandyDon on Dec 8, 2021 13:44:30 GMT -5
JJ is not getting fired this year. Pretty thick limb there, since next year is less than a month away. JJ will be the HC in September 2022. Better? |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Dec 8, 2021 14:03:08 GMT -5
He will be here in 2022. Judge was hired KNOWING he was an experiment that would take years to figure out. He was raw and had zero HC experience. Zero. It might have been a huge mistake hiring him, which every game that passes seems more and more likely, but they should NOT fire him already. They made their bed with him. I would honestly be more angered by this team if the fire him in year 2 than if they keep him for year 3. Every time they fire these coaches makes the HC position here even less desirable. McAdoo 2years, Shurmur 2 years, Now Judge 2 years? Give me a break. No coach can make this work in only 2 years. He should get 1 more year. Now, if he wants to move on from DJ, fine. If DG gets fired, great. But Judge should be here. And personally I think DJ should get 1 more year too due to the available options in 2022. New GM will be as less desirable if he can’t bring in his own coach....team is in a mess My post from another thread: "The best way to do it IMO is fire DG now, keep Judge in 2022, and give the next GM extremely generous fine print in his contract in 2022. Basically red shirt the GM. The sole responsibility that would rest on him would be the draft and what happens in FA whether digging out of the hole DG put us in or getting depth to build on. Judge should not have any say in the GM. It's not his job. Its the job of a GM to have a say in a HC however IMO.
So once the GM gets the details, he will have the power to fire Judge if it fails again next season and move on from DJ after 2022 without any negative impact to the GMs status. It would just be him undoing the mess DG left behind, and he starts fresh in 2023 with a say in the HC and new QB.
I do believe that would be the best way to get a serious GM from outside in the building. A "free pass" year." |
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Post by jb456 on Dec 8, 2021 15:00:12 GMT -5
If the Giants keep losing by 11 points to some of the worst teams in the league, he will get fired. not sure these owners have the stones to fire Judge at this point.. I should have clarified, when the season is over. I don't see this team firing a coach mid season unless the players give up... |
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Post by jmike on Dec 8, 2021 15:10:08 GMT -5
Pretty thick limb there, since next year is less than a month away. JJ will be the HC in September 2022. Better? Sure, if you want your limb to lose some thickness. |
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Post by Zimonami on Dec 8, 2021 15:16:11 GMT -5
End of season. They need to pile up the losses. My 58 year old son agrees with you... season is over, let's get best draft picks possible. |
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Post by Zimonami on Dec 8, 2021 15:28:26 GMT -5
One of the best coaches ever in NFL history made it a point to call the Mara's and recommend Judge.
The Mara's dearly wish that Parcell's had not quit AFTER BB accepted Cleveland's off for HC. BB would have been the successor, and not Ray Handley.
The Mara's think very highly of BB, and their relationship is solid. They were well aware that JJ was never even an OC or DC. he had never managed a game clock, much less assistant coaches.
In view of the Covid year in 2020, this year with (2) practice squad players on the OLine, and myriad other injuries...., there's not a chance in the world that the FO is going to give up on JJ. They are not going to do what Cleveland did when they got rid of BB after 4 losing seasons out of 5, only to go to NE and become a legend. And, when BB became Cleveland's coach he has WAY more experience than JJ.
I think JJ has a very long leash with the Mara's, and I think they will not hire any new GM that is not on board with JJ. And, I am in that corner. You don't have patience with JJ and he is going to go to another organization and be an outstanding coach after getting his apprenticeship with us, just like BB did.
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Post by Fletch842 on Dec 8, 2021 15:29:02 GMT -5
End of season. They need to pile up the losses. My 58 year old son agrees with you... season is over, let's get best draft picks possible. problem is that we play the Eagles, Cowboys, and WFT in this stretch. I despise losing to those teams above pretty much anything. Screw the draft, let's play spoilers!!! |
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Post by Zimonami on Dec 8, 2021 15:32:01 GMT -5
My 58 year old son agrees with you... season is over, let's get best draft picks possible. problem is that we play the Eagles, Cowboys, and WFT in this stretch. I despise losing to those teams above pretty much anything. Screw the draft, let's play spoilers!!! Hahaha... I'm with you. I never want to lose. MY son and I argue about this every time it's apparent we aren't going to the playoffs. F the Draft. |
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Post by Jomo on Dec 8, 2021 16:05:56 GMT -5
problem is that we play the Eagles, Cowboys, and WFT in this stretch. I despise losing to those teams above pretty much anything. Screw the draft, let's play spoilers!!! Hahaha... I'm with you. I never want to lose. MY son and I argue about this every time it's apparent we aren't going to the playoffs. F the Draft. Based on our performance in the draft over the past decade, does it really matter where we finish? |
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Post by giantlegacy on Dec 8, 2021 16:12:28 GMT -5
One of the best coaches ever in NFL history made it a point to call the Mara's and recommend Judge. The Mara's dearly wish that Parcell's had not quit AFTER BB accepted Cleveland's off for HC. BB would have been the successor, and not Ray Handley. The Mara's think very highly of BB, and their relationship is solid. They were well aware that JJ was never even an OC or DC. he had never managed a game clock, much less assistant coaches. In view of the Covid year in 2020, this year with (2) practice squad players on the OLine, and myriad other injuries...., there's not a chance in the world that the FO is going to give up on JJ. They are not going to do what Cleveland did when they got rid of BB after 4 losing seasons out of 5, only to go to NE and become a legend. And, when BB became Cleveland's coach he has WAY more experience than JJ. I think JJ has a very long leash with the Mara's, and I think they will not hire any new GM that is not on board with JJ. And, I am in that corner. You don't have patience with JJ and he is going to go to another organization and be an outstanding coach after getting his apprenticeship with us, just like BB did. I'm not disagreeing with you.... I'm torn....his in game management has been as bad as I've seen... I also think he came into a mess that was exasperated by having one of the Maras force someone on him that did not jive with his philosophies.. The think is you see it on defense.... The offense has been a case of anything that can go wrong has,a GM that prior to him getting there was indeed listening and agreeing that we need to go back to prehistoric times. The past 2 drafts show a major shift in how things are being done. He now possibly has a damaged qb mentally and even physically,how much of it was because of Garrett or him,who knows.. The players are playing for him still... This team is such a mess overall..I'm at the point of indifference on how tbey nove foward..... I'm still expecting Abrams to be the next sock puppet. |
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Post by babybulls on Dec 8, 2021 16:13:46 GMT -5
One of the best coaches ever in NFL history made it a point to call the Mara's and recommend Judge. The Mara's dearly wish that Parcell's had not quit AFTER BB accepted Cleveland's off for HC. BB would have been the successor, and not Ray Handley. The Mara's think very highly of BB, and their relationship is solid. They were well aware that JJ was never even an OC or DC. he had never managed a game clock, much less assistant coaches. In view of the Covid year in 2020, this year with (2) practice squad players on the OLine, and myriad other injuries...., there's not a chance in the world that the FO is going to give up on JJ. They are not going to do what Cleveland did when they got rid of BB after 4 losing seasons out of 5, only to go to NE and become a legend. And, when BB became Cleveland's coach he has WAY more experience than JJ. I think JJ has a very long leash with the Mara's, and I think they will not hire any new GM that is not on board with JJ. And, I am in that corner. You don't have patience with JJ and he is going to go to another organization and be an outstanding coach after getting his apprenticeship with us, just like BB did. It’s been said that George Young would not have elevated Belicheck since he didn’t like him. Don’t have any proof of this, but remember reading it on these boards or the old one. |
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Dec 8, 2021 16:20:51 GMT -5
One of the best coaches ever in NFL history made it a point to call the Mara's and recommend Judge. The Mara's dearly wish that Parcell's had not quit AFTER BB accepted Cleveland's off for HC. BB would have been the successor, and not Ray Handley. The Mara's think very highly of BB, and their relationship is solid. They were well aware that JJ was never even an OC or DC. he had never managed a game clock, much less assistant coaches. In view of the Covid year in 2020, this year with (2) practice squad players on the OLine, and myriad other injuries...., there's not a chance in the world that the FO is going to give up on JJ. They are not going to do what Cleveland did when they got rid of BB after 4 losing seasons out of 5, only to go to NE and become a legend. And, when BB became Cleveland's coach he has WAY more experience than JJ. I think JJ has a very long leash with the Mara's, and I think they will not hire any new GM that is not on board with JJ. And, I am in that corner. You don't have patience with JJ and he is going to go to another organization and be an outstanding coach after getting his apprenticeship with us, just like BB did. If I could add which is why the "ownership and GM " added two former HC's to his staff. Which has happen to be a bad idea . |
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Dec 8, 2021 16:24:07 GMT -5
One of the best coaches ever in NFL history made it a point to call the Mara's and recommend Judge. The Mara's dearly wish that Parcell's had not quit AFTER BB accepted Cleveland's off for HC. BB would have been the successor, and not Ray Handley. The Mara's think very highly of BB, and their relationship is solid. They were well aware that JJ was never even an OC or DC. he had never managed a game clock, much less assistant coaches. In view of the Covid year in 2020, this year with (2) practice squad players on the OLine, and myriad other injuries...., there's not a chance in the world that the FO is going to give up on JJ. They are not going to do what Cleveland did when they got rid of BB after 4 losing seasons out of 5, only to go to NE and become a legend. And, when BB became Cleveland's coach he has WAY more experience than JJ. I think JJ has a very long leash with the Mara's, and I think they will not hire any new GM that is not on board with JJ. And, I am in that corner. You don't have patience with JJ and he is going to go to another organization and be an outstanding coach after getting his apprenticeship with us, just like BB did. It’s been said that George Young would not have elevated Belicheck since he didn’t like him. Don’t have any proof of this, but remember reading it on these boards or the old one. ................... nypost.com/2018/09/18/a-lacrosse-playing-mess-the-giants-enormous-bill-belichick-mistake/The late George Young should maybe be in the Football Hall of Fame. But when it came to assessing arguably the greatest coach of all time, the former Giants general manager was way off. It’s known that Bill Belichick — who won Super Bowls as Bill Parcells’ defensive coordinator with the Giants in 1987 and 1991 — really wanted to succeed Parcells as Giants head coach. Instead, with Belichick realizing Young did not think highly of him, Belichick took the Browns job in 1991, with Young favoring Ray Handley to replace Parcells. In a new biography of Belichick, ESPN’s Ian O’Connor describes not only how Young felt Handley’s intellect was superior to Belichick’s, but that Young had distaste for Belichick’s upbringing as a lacrosse player and his less-than-natty attire. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2021 16:24:12 GMT -5
New GM will be as less desirable if he can’t bring in his own coach....team is in a mess My post from another thread: "The best way to do it IMO is fire DG now, keep Judge in 2022, and give the next GM extremely generous fine print in his contract in 2022. Basically red shirt the GM. The sole responsibility that would rest on him would be the draft and what happens in FA whether digging out of the hole DG put us in or getting depth to build on. Judge should not have any say in the GM. It's not his job. Its the job of a GM to have a say in a HC however IMO.
So once the GM gets the details, he will have the power to fire Judge if it fails again next season and move on from DJ after 2022 without any negative impact to the GMs status. It would just be him undoing the mess DG left behind, and he starts fresh in 2023 with a say in the HC and new QB.
I do believe that would be the best way to get a serious GM from outside in the building. A "free pass" year."Nice post....sorry missed this thread and this read as you make some nice posts. IMHO, we still have to be on the same page system wise when the draft comes..... Judge has to then have a say to continue his and his coordinators vision....his hogmolly might be a 290 pound center with athletic zone blocking traits vs some mauler....same with defensive schemes. I won’t pretend to have the answers...just hindsight, and that hindsight being Gettleman should have been canned when our last 2 year coach was...he’s been awful from the start. |
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