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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 3, 2022 8:29:08 GMT -5
what GMs era isnt? Jones needs to emerge as the franchise or they move on. not news. Schoen has the closest thing to a mulligan this year that a GM can have. Has a QB he has 0 ties has done as much as he can in a difficult situation cap wise, They are believe in DJ and Daboll his coach believes he can turn the flashes we all have seen into consistent above average QB play. I think that Schoen is gonna get his chance full chance to draft his own QB if need be, and might even get a second shot if he builds a solid roster and his first shot doesn't work out. All GMs success hangs on the QB dilemma I just think these guys get it it's a player driven as far as success goes.
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Post by TEM on Sept 3, 2022 8:33:06 GMT -5
what GMs era isnt? Jones needs to emerge as the franchise or they move on. not news. Schoen has the closest thing to a mulligan this year that a GM can have. Has a QB he has 0 ties has done as much as he can in a difficult situation cap wise, They are believe in DJ and Daboll his coach believes he can turn the flashes we all have seen into consistent above average QB play. I think that Schoen is gonna get his chance full chance to draft his own QB if need be, and might even get a second shot if he builds a solid roster and his first shot doesn't work out. All GMs success hangs on the QB dilemma I just think these guys get it it's a player driven as far as success goes. What makes you think that? Did Judge or Schumur get a mulligan? There is no such thing with the owners anymore. I have no idea where some of you are getting this narrative from. Mara in his own words. I do not like to fire staff. But we (Tisch and the Maras) need to see improvement. McAdoo had an 11-win season and got the boot before the end of his second season. If we are in November next year and we are not a .500 team. The pitchforks and torches will be on full display.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 3, 2022 8:36:43 GMT -5
this redraft topic is simply too painful for me to rehash through, lol... yeah....I usually am not a fan of that either. I just feel Allen, or most QBs, would be in a similar situation that Jones is in all other thngs being the same if they were drafted by the NYGs back then. Mahomes and Allen both were raised as good as it gets when growing QBs. 2 different ways Mahomes sat and waited to take over an already power house offense. Allen took some bumps here and there but the team kept everything around him in-tacked, as far as coaching then built a powerhouse around him as far as personnel goes different ways of doing things but both involve stability and talent to prop those young QBs up. Jones had none of that he actually had the exact opposite maybe he still has a chance but the damage might be done.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 3, 2022 8:49:22 GMT -5
Schoen has the closest thing to a mulligan this year that a GM can have. Has a QB he has 0 ties has done as much as he can in a difficult situation cap wise, They are believe in DJ and Daboll his coach believes he can turn the flashes we all have seen into consistent above average QB play. I think that Schoen is gonna get his chance full chance to draft his own QB if need be, and might even get a second shot if he builds a solid roster and his first shot doesn't work out. All GMs success hangs on the QB dilemma I just think these guys get it it's a player driven as far as success goes. What make you think that? Did Judge or Schumur get a mulligan? There is no such thing with the owners anymore. I have no idea where some of you are getting this narrative from. Mara in his own words. I do not like to fire staff. But we (Tisch and the Maras) need to see improvement. They were tasked to raise a QB and each failed with a #6 pick, maybe damaged beyond repair. The Giants are done playing musical chairs and all indications are they will let this process unfold, as I say if he improves the roster he is gonna get his shot to get the QB if needed, there has to be improvement but he is playing with someone else hand this year that is why it is as close as it gets to a mulligan. It was same for Gettlemen his first year he had 2 years of salary cap hell and over paid under achieving roster with 0 depth ton of free agents and little cap to pay them even if he wanted them nature of the beast. Giants can't keep changing direction every 2 years.
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Post by GameTime on Sept 3, 2022 9:07:57 GMT -5
what GMs era isnt? Jones needs to emerge as the franchise or they move on. not news. Schoen has the closest thing to a mulligan this year that a GM can have. Has a QB he has 0 ties has done as much as he can in a difficult situation cap wise, They are believe in DJ and Daboll his coach believes he can turn the flashes we all have seen into consistent above average QB play. I think that Schoen is gonna get his chance full chance to draft his own QB if need be, and might even get a second shot if he builds a solid roster and his first shot doesn't work out. All GMs success hangs on the QB dilemma I just think these guys get it it's a player driven as far as success goes. only on Jones...he has to start getting this team right otherwise.
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Post by snyder55 on Sept 3, 2022 9:12:53 GMT -5
actually the situation looks obvious to me, if the team is improved at most positions and the QB is still a question mark then we will draft a QB in round 1 and begin the new era....
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Post by kerryisdaman on Sept 3, 2022 9:16:21 GMT -5
I remember some fans were calling Allen a bust in his second season. Think that was after a 3 int game.
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Post by TEM on Sept 3, 2022 9:19:10 GMT -5
What make you think that? Did Judge or Schumur get a mulligan? There is no such thing with the owners anymore. I have no idea where some of you are getting this narrative from. Mara in his own words. I do not like to fire staff. But we (Tisch and the Maras) need to see improvement. They were tasked to raise a QB and each failed with a #6 pick, maybe damaged beyond repair. The Giants are done playing musical chairs and all indications are they will let this process unfold, as I say if he improves the roster he is gonna get his shot to get the QB if needed, there has to be improvement but he is playing with someone else hand this year that is why it is as close as it gets to a mulligan. It was same for Gettlemen his first year he had 2 years of salary cap hell and over paid under achieving roster with 0 depth ton of free agents and little cap to pay them even if he wanted them nature of the beast. Giants can't keep changing direction every 2 years. According to who? I remember reading these exact same posts in context applied to Judge. (I was one of them). Where are you getting this "they have latitude" from? All indicators (resent history) suggest. The owner's tolerance for looking like a dumpster fire is very low. That is an historical fact. They either win or they are gone.
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Post by Nite on Sept 3, 2022 9:30:00 GMT -5
I remember some fans were calling Allen a bust in his second season. Think that was after a 3 int game. Josh Allen 2nd season stats 2019 Buffalo Bills 16 461 271 58.8 3089 6.7 53 20 9 146 31.7 47 38 237 85.3Daniel Jones 2nd Season Stats: 2020 New York Giants 14 448 280 62.5 2943 6.6 53 11 10 158 35.3 31 45 286 80.4One is a franchise, the other is trending towards career backup. Not much of a comparison
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Post by shocknaweny on Sept 3, 2022 9:31:26 GMT -5
Unless he throws 40 touchdowns Daniel is a goner
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Post by shocknaweny on Sept 3, 2022 9:32:54 GMT -5
I remember some fans were calling Allen a bust in his second season. Think that was after a 3 int game. Josh Allen 3rd season stats 2019 Buffalo Bills 16 461 271 58.8 3089 6.7 53 20 9 146 31.7 47 38 237 85.3Daniel Jones 3rd Season Stats: 2020 New York Giants 14 448 280 62.5 2943 6.6 53 11 10 158 35.3 31 45 286 80.4One is a franchise, the other is trending towards career backup. Not much of a comparison 2019 was Allen's second season I believe
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Post by kerryisdaman on Sept 3, 2022 9:41:38 GMT -5
I remember some fans were calling Allen a bust in his second season. Think that was after a 3 int game. Josh Allen 2nd season stats 2019 Buffalo Bills 16 461 271 58.8 3089 6.7 53 20 9 146 31.7 47 38 237 85.3Daniel Jones 2nd Season Stats: 2020 New York Giants 14 448 280 62.5 2943 6.6 53 11 10 158 35.3 31 45 286 80.4One is a franchise, the other is trending towards career backup. Not much of a comparison 1. Many of their stats after their first 38 games are very close. Shown in a illustration during a recent preseason game. 2. If you go back to the 4th game of Allens second season many fans were calling him a bust.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2022 9:43:46 GMT -5
I remember some fans were calling Allen a bust in his second season. Think that was after a 3 int game. Josh Allen 2nd season stats 2019 Buffalo Bills 16 461 271 58.8 3089 6.7 53 20 9 146 31.7 47 38 237 85.3Daniel Jones 2nd Season Stats: 2020 New York Giants 14 448 280 62.5 2943 6.6 53 11 10 158 35.3 31 45 286 80.4One is a franchise, the other is trending towards career backup. Not much of a comparison One improved each and every year while the other, arguments why galore, did not. That and the amazing arm talent Josh Allen has I still believe any QB we took would have failed under Gettleman, especially once Shurmur was thrown into the dumpster.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Sept 3, 2022 9:44:42 GMT -5
Unless he throws 40 touchdowns Daniel is a goner Well 2 QBs in the league threw for 40 last season so that sounds fair. Maybe 5000 yards as well?
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Post by shocknaweny on Sept 3, 2022 9:46:33 GMT -5
Unless he throws 40 touchdowns Daniel is a goner Well 2 QBs in the league threw for 40 last season so that sounds fair. Maybe 5000 yards as well? 30 ??? He has to have his best season and then some... average or game manager will not cut it I doubt
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Post by vinnie on Sept 3, 2022 10:15:39 GMT -5
They were tasked to raise a QB and each failed with a #6 pick, maybe damaged beyond repair. The Giants are done playing musical chairs and all indications are they will let this process unfold, as I say if he improves the roster he is gonna get his shot to get the QB if needed, there has to be improvement but he is playing with someone else hand this year that is why it is as close as it gets to a mulligan. It was same for Gettlemen his first year he had 2 years of salary cap hell and over paid under achieving roster with 0 depth ton of free agents and little cap to pay them even if he wanted them nature of the beast. Giants can't keep changing direction every 2 years. According to who? I remember reading these exact same posts in context applied to Judge. (I was one of them). Where are you getting this "they have latitude" from? All indicators (resent history) suggest. The owner's tolerance for looking like a dumpster fire is very low. That is an historical fact. They either win or they are gone. On more then one occasion, Mara has recently said himself that he messed up in the past by not giving some HC’s enough time. I believe he specifically mentioned Shurmur as well. Schoen or Dabs aren’t going anywhere next year even if they are below .500.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Sept 3, 2022 10:53:16 GMT -5
Well 2 QBs in the league threw for 40 last season so that sounds fair. Maybe 5000 yards as well? 30 ??? He has to have his best season and then some... average or game manager will not cut it I doubt We will see. Im more concerned on how many points we score as a team. Whether we run it in from the 3 yard line or pass it in doesn't make much difference to me.
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Post by Nite on Sept 3, 2022 11:12:43 GMT -5
Josh Allen 2nd season stats 2019 Buffalo Bills 16 461 271 58.8 3089 6.7 53 20 9 146 31.7 47 38 237 85.3Daniel Jones 2nd Season Stats: 2020 New York Giants 14 448 280 62.5 2943 6.6 53 11 10 158 35.3 31 45 286 80.4One is a franchise, the other is trending towards career backup. Not much of a comparison 1. Many of their stats after their first 38 games are very close. Shown in a illustration during a recent preseason game. 2. If you go back to the 4th game of Allens second season many fans were calling him a bust. Close yes but not the same. Compare the 3rd year and beyond..they are not the same, not even close
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Post by TEM on Sept 3, 2022 11:15:35 GMT -5
According to who? I remember reading these exact same posts in context applied to Judge. (I was one of them). Where are you getting this "they have latitude" from? All indicators (resent history) suggest. The owner's tolerance for looking like a dumpster fire is very low. That is an historical fact. They either win or they are gone. On more then one occasion, Mara has recently said himself that he messed up in the past by not giving some HC’s enough time. I believe he specifically mentioned Shurmur as well. Schoen or Dabs aren’t going anywhere next year even if they are below .500. He is a broken record. He also said Judge will not be a 2 year HC. Not to be a cliche parrot. But in this case the actions speak louder than the words.
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Post by Bigjeep on Sept 3, 2022 11:23:37 GMT -5
On more then one occasion, Mara has recently said himself that he messed up in the past by not giving some HC’s enough time. I believe he specifically mentioned Shurmur as well. Schoen or Dabs aren’t going anywhere next year even if they are below .500. He is a broken record. He also said Judge will not be a 2 year HC. Not to be a cliche parrot. But im this case the actions speak louder than the words. Once a new GM is hired he has to hire his own team including the HC! Mara had no choice!
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 3, 2022 11:31:52 GMT -5
They were tasked to raise a QB and each failed with a #6 pick, maybe damaged beyond repair. The Giants are done playing musical chairs and all indications are they will let this process unfold, as I say if he improves the roster he is gonna get his shot to get the QB if needed, there has to be improvement but he is playing with someone else hand this year that is why it is as close as it gets to a mulligan. It was same for Gettlemen his first year he had 2 years of salary cap hell and over paid under achieving roster with 0 depth ton of free agents and little cap to pay them even if he wanted them nature of the beast. Giants can't keep changing direction every 2 years. According to who? I remember reading these exact same posts in context applied to Judge. (I was one of them). Where are you getting this "they have latitude" from? All indicators (resent history) suggest. The owner's tolerance for looking like a dumpster fire is very low. That is an historical fact. They either win or they are gone. He went backwards, thats why he got fired if he won 7 games or the team even looked like they were trending forward in year 2 he would be here. I am talking about year 1 nothing more if they win six games this year and 4 next looking worse then a 4 win team all bets are off. That is hard to do if the front office and coach have any competence at all. If you plan on seeing a winner they either win or their gone better change, because last I saw from around 2009 to this point where we stand, 12 years of incompetence isn't getting fixed in 2 years. John Mara admitted to being to hasty with Mac / shurmur / Judge we will never know how good any of them could have been unless 1 or more of them become good for someone else. this was a bigger shit show in 2017 the only difference is they had more young talent now then then in pivotal spots and a ton of draft capital this time around. I believe Schoen will get his chance the full 4yeras.
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Post by TEM on Sept 3, 2022 11:53:04 GMT -5
According to who? I remember reading these exact same posts in context applied to Judge. (I was one of them). Where are you getting this "they have latitude" from? All indicators (resent history) suggest. The owner's tolerance for looking like a dumpster fire is very low. That is an historical fact. They either win or they are gone. He went backwards, thats why he got fired if he won 7 games or the team even looked like they were trending forward in year 2 he would be here. I am talking about year 1 nothing more if they win six games this year and 4 next looking worse then a 4 win team all bets are off. That is hard to do if the front office and coach have any competence at all. If you plan on seeing a winner they either win or their gone better change, because last I saw from around 2009 to this point where we stand, 12 years of incompetence isn't getting fixed in 2 years. John Mara admitted to being to hasty with Mac / shurmur / Judge we will never know how good any of them could have been unless 1 or more of them become good for someone else. this was a bigger shit show in 2017 the only difference is they had more young talent now then then in pivotal spots and a ton of draft capital this time around. I believe Schoen will get his chance the full 4yeras. It's because he never won more than 6 games in a season. The fact is we have not wone 6 games since McAdoo won 11.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 3, 2022 11:55:20 GMT -5
Schoen has the closest thing to a mulligan this year that a GM can have. Has a QB he has 0 ties has done as much as he can in a difficult situation cap wise, They are believe in DJ and Daboll his coach believes he can turn the flashes we all have seen into consistent above average QB play. I think that Schoen is gonna get his chance full chance to draft his own QB if need be, and might even get a second shot if he builds a solid roster and his first shot doesn't work out. All GMs success hangs on the QB dilemma I just think these guys get it it's a player driven as far as success goes. only on Jones...he has to start getting this team right otherwise. you read it i had that covered also teams roster needs to be improved, first year it is always more about getting the program inlace and the right people into the front office along with the draft.
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Post by TEM on Sept 3, 2022 11:56:53 GMT -5
He is a broken record. He also said Judge will not be a 2 year HC. Not to be a cliche parrot. But im this case the actions speak louder than the words. Once a new GM is hired he has to hire his own team including the HC! Mara had no choice! The Mara's and Tisch Hired Daboll. They had the final say. www.giants.com/news/quotes-brian-daboll-john-mara-joe-schoen-introductory-press-conference-2022The head coaching search began January 21st shortly after I was hired. (President and Chief Executive Officer) John Mara, (Chairman and Executive Vice President) Steve Tisch, (Senior Vice President of Player Personnel) Chris Mara and myself put together an extensive list of coaches that we would want to speak with. We conducted Zoom interviews, several in-person interviews and we cast a wide net when we did this. After a lot of research on the various candidates, we came to the conclusion that Brian Daboll would be the best coaching candidate to lead the New York Giants in the 2022 season and beyond. Brian has an impressive coaching résumé that includes five Super Bowls and a national.Now if Schone had the say there would have been no reason for ownership to be involved.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 3, 2022 11:57:46 GMT -5
He went backwards, thats why he got fired if he won 7 games or the team even looked like they were trending forward in year 2 he would be here. I am talking about year 1 nothing more if they win six games this year and 4 next looking worse then a 4 win team all bets are off. That is hard to do if the front office and coach have any competence at all. If you plan on seeing a winner they either win or their gone better change, because last I saw from around 2009 to this point where we stand, 12 years of incompetence isn't getting fixed in 2 years. John Mara admitted to being to hasty with Mac / shurmur / Judge we will never know how good any of them could have been unless 1 or more of them become good for someone else. this was a bigger shit show in 2017 the only difference is they had more young talent now then then in pivotal spots and a ton of draft capital this time around. I believe Schoen will get his chance the full 4yeras. It's because he never won more than 6 games in a season. The fact is we have not wone 6 games since McAdoo won 11. TEM your smart I have said this about 4 different times the roster needs marked improvement and the staff needs to get better from that roster each year. If that doesn't happen they are done but after 4 years forget that 2 year crap.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 3, 2022 11:58:34 GMT -5
Once a new GM is hired he has to hire his own team including the HC! Mara had no choice! Mara and Tisch Hired Daboll. They had the final say. They Approved it that was Schoens choice.
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Post by TEM on Sept 3, 2022 12:11:48 GMT -5
It's because he never won more than 6 games in a season. The fact is we have not wone 6 games since McAdoo won 11. TEM your smart I have said this about 4 different times the roster needs marked improvement and the staff needs to get better from that roster each year. If that doesn't happen they are done but after 4 years forget that 2 year crap. I am a person that needs proof. The only proof I have is what has transpired. If they do not win, they are gone. Everything else is an excuse. That is what ownership has shown. My logic The problem that happened with Both Reese and Gettelman. They were both put on notice when they should have been walked out the door. Here is the stupid result of not doing that. Both went berserk in cap spending to save their a$$es. So the next guy is stuck with a huge problem. Tisch is a money guy. IMO: He won't allow the stupid to happen again. They have 2 years to get out of the doldrums or they are gone. (as a tandem).
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Post by TEM on Sept 3, 2022 12:13:06 GMT -5
Mara and Tisch Hired Daboll. They had the final say. They Approved it that was Schoens choice. If it was Schones choice. Why did they have to approve it?
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Post by Bigjeep on Sept 3, 2022 12:25:18 GMT -5
Mara and Tisch Hired Daboll. They had the final say. They Approved it that was Schoens choice. It goes without saying! Mara has to sign off on all hirings!
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Post by kerryisdaman on Sept 3, 2022 12:28:07 GMT -5
1. Many of their stats after their first 38 games are very close. Shown in a illustration during a recent preseason game. 2. If you go back to the 4th game of Allens second season many fans were calling him a bust. Close yes but not the same. Compare the 3rd year and beyond..they are not the same, not even close Can only go up to the first 38 games until DJ plays more.
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