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Post by idkaname on Mar 25, 2024 10:00:13 GMT -5
I don't think going WR at 6 really has anything to do with Jones staying or leaving tbh. We need weapons / talent regardless... Now to you and Rangers point about WRs being available later / FA etc...like you said same for any position...and that includes QBs as well...I understand the numbers aspect as well...there's obviously more WRs etc but that just makes it even harder to land a quality QB so it's gotta be a hit if we go QB at 6 or we're just becoming the jets and taking a random chance every couple of years hoping we hit n a QB (which btw most teams that do this, it happens because they keep ignoring weapons / other parts of the team giving the QB little chance to succeed anyway) What I said about Jones was because if they want to move on then QB is the biggest need, if they don't want to move on then WR is the biggest need. They should not draft a QB if they want to stick with Jones lol.
Yes I agree we need weapons no matter what.
Well I don't think it's as simple as just wanting him...you have to take note of his injury history /availability. Even if they know they're done with him after last year the right guy has to be available...we only take a QB if he appears to have potential AND that potential is fitting into the offense they're trying to run. That's really the biggest hurdle...not finding a talented QB but finding a talented QB that works in the system. Very few QBs in NFL history could just plug-n-play into ANY system...not even sure there's 3 of those guys. The only guy that really comes to mind for me is Peyton Manning because he put his players into the best situations with his ability to adjust to the defense. The guy had a great OC (Tom Moore) and basically called his own plays...pretty wild
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 25, 2024 11:01:15 GMT -5
This is the best WR draft I've ever seen, but it all comes down to their grades. Odunze seems to be the key. Some have him right there with MHJ and Nabers. Others I've seen him listed with Thomas, Coleman and that next tier. Will be interesting to see what Schoen thinks. It is a shame we aren’t like the Chargers and lost a legit QB and now can land a stud. We’re in that QB hell with the same questions Yeah wanting to be like a team that never won the SB isn't my thing lol.
It would be nice to be set at QB but even with Herbert playing 13 games they finished worse than us somehow lol. They have some major holes even though QB seems set. They lost Ekeler, Allen and Mike Williams. That's all of their offense. They better hope Herbert turns it around after losing all those weapons.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 25, 2024 13:13:47 GMT -5
It is a shame we aren’t like the Chargers and lost a legit QB and now can land a stud. We’re in that QB hell with the same questions Yeah wanting to be like a team that never won the SB isn't my thing lol.
It would be nice to be set at QB but even with Herbert playing 13 games they finished worse than us somehow lol. They have some major holes even though QB seems set. They lost Ekeler, Allen and Mike Williams. That's all of their offense. They better hope Herbert turns it around after losing all those weapons.
holy shiat
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Post by Roosevelt on Mar 27, 2024 19:38:22 GMT -5
Looking at the scores from his best plays on those highlights, I can't say Beckham made much of a difference. A great WR can definitely make your QB look better! I'm a little surprised that's something you picked up. The bottom line is this guy was amazing. It's just too bad things went the way they did for him and the Giants.
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Aris
Special Teams
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Post by Aris on Mar 27, 2024 19:49:47 GMT -5
yet we won Super Bowls with Burress and Nicks Burress was our offensive MVP in 2007 imo. Without him we weren’t winning the Super Bowl.
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giantsalmon
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Came over from a defunct board. Formerly LakeO Giant fan
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Post by giantsalmon on Mar 27, 2024 20:02:45 GMT -5
Burress was our offensive MVP in 2007 imo. Without him we weren’t winning the Super Bowl. I was so impressed with Plax and Eli and their ball handling in those temps that day. Great FA signing Ernie.
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Post by inconvenientruth on Mar 27, 2024 20:15:06 GMT -5
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Post by kingb50 on Mar 27, 2024 21:06:37 GMT -5
Eli and OBJ < DJ and Slayton,Gollay, etc. As long as you take away the fan base, excitement, optimism, highlights, optimism, and a chance to win.
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Post by giantbob71 on Mar 27, 2024 21:16:11 GMT -5
If the Giants take a WR at 6, gonna be some disappointed DJ fans on this site. The idea a good WR makes a bad QB great, is silly. Adams goes to the Raiders, Carr and Jimmy G. lose their jobs. Cousins gets hurt, Dobbs loses his job with Jefferson and a stud rookie. No Adam's in GB...no problem for Love. Ridley didn’t help Lawrence. Stroud made the Texans WRs better, not the other way around. No stud WR in KC...SB Champs.
A great WR can't save a bad passing QB. There's no saving DJ...look what he did to Waller. A stud rookie WR will put up Slayton numbers, at best.
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Post by Roosevelt on Mar 27, 2024 22:41:41 GMT -5
If the Giants take a WR at 6, gonna be some disappointed DJ fans on this site. The idea a good WR makes a bad QB great, is silly. Adams goes to the Raiders, Carr and Jimmy G. lose their jobs. Cousins gets hurt, Dobbs loses his job with Jefferson and a stud rookie. No Adam's in GB...no problem for Love. Ridley didn’t help Lawrence. Stroud made the Texans WRs better, not the other way around. No stud WR in KC...SB Champs. A great WR can't save a bad passing QB. There's no saving DJ...look what he did to Waller. A stud rookie WR will put up Slayton numbers, at best. I think you make a great argument.
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Post by DJones19 on Mar 27, 2024 22:47:54 GMT -5
Eli turned from a poor man's Tim Tebow without running ability as a rookie to a competent quarterback after Plax came in. In 2011 he was very good with Cruz and Nicks.
During the decline the narrative was he didn't have help and the receivers.
We saw what El could do on a good team vs bad.
Eli was great in 2011 and pitiful in 2013 - what was the difference during those two years? The head coach and OC was exactly the same.
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Post by giantbob71 on Mar 28, 2024 0:19:53 GMT -5
Eli turned from a poor man's Tim Tebow without running ability as a rookie to a competent quarterback after Plax came in. In 2011 he was very good with Cruz and Nicks. During the decline the narrative was he didn't have help and the receivers. We saw what El could do on a good team vs bad. Eli was great in 2011 and pitiful in 2013 - what was the difference during those two years? The head coach and OC was exactly the same. I love this...Eli was destined to be another DJ based on 9 games...but DJ is destined to be another Eli, after 5 bad years? Eli Manning is a Hall of Fame QB...stop disrespecting him by mentioning him in the same sentence as a QB who can barely throw for 200 yards per game for his career. Can we also point out their first 5 years were played in completely different QB eras?
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Post by lt56 on Mar 28, 2024 0:48:13 GMT -5
4.35 with a 42 Inch Vertical
going to be hard to pass up on that if he even makes it to #6, one of the QB's might fall to us by Default with the Charger staying at #5 and taking Nabers after Trading Allen and Cutting Mike Williams, so they now need a Receiver too
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Mar 28, 2024 6:50:12 GMT -5
Best of Odell Beckham Compilation.
I don't think I have ever seen anyone question OBJ talent, ever but he wore out his welcome here and once he left he was never the same Odell . He still made a few plays but he was never the Super Star Eli helped him become. Watching that video was interesting. Not only was Eli getting time to throw he was in may of those plays staring OBJ down .The Giants treated Odell well, but after the Boat trip and the interview it was time for him to leave.
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Mar 28, 2024 7:01:15 GMT -5
This is the best WR draft I've ever seen, but it all comes down to their grades. Odunze seems to be the key. Some have him right there with MHJ and Nabers. Others I've seen him listed with Thomas, Coleman and that next tier. Will be interesting to see what Schoen thinks. It is a shame we aren’t like the Chargers and lost a legit QB and now can land a stud. We’re in that QB hell with the same questions Chargers had a shit season with their QB getting injured and HC getting fired.
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Mar 28, 2024 7:03:53 GMT -5
Looking at the scores from his best plays on those highlights, I can't say Beckham made much of a difference. A great WR can definitely make your QB look better! I'm a little surprised that's something you picked up. The bottom line is this guy was amazing. It's just too bad things went the way they did for him and the Giants. Just to point out he brought on much of those problems himself.
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Mar 28, 2024 7:10:46 GMT -5
If the Giants take a WR at 6, gonna be some disappointed DJ fans on this site. The idea a good WR makes a bad QB great, is silly. Adams goes to the Raiders, Carr and Jimmy G. lose their jobs. Cousins gets hurt, Dobbs loses his job with Jefferson and a stud rookie. No Adam's in GB...no problem for Love. Ridley didn’t help Lawrence. Stroud made the Texans WRs better, not the other way around. No stud WR in KC...SB Champs. A great WR can't save a bad passing QB. There's no saving DJ...look what he did to Waller. A stud rookie WR will put up Slayton numbers, at best. LOL, What he did to Waller? JHC! Waller played in 12 games. Jones did nothing to him. www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WallDa01/gamelog/2023/
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Post by Nite on Mar 28, 2024 7:52:46 GMT -5
4.35 with a 42 Inch Vertical going to be hard to pass up on that if he even makes it to #6, one of the QB's might fall to us by Default with the Charger staying at #5 and taking Nabers after Trading Allen and Cutting Mike Williams, so they now need a Receiver too Lots of great college athletes don't really make it in the NFL. You also have to be a great football player too.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 28, 2024 8:25:54 GMT -5
It is a shame we aren’t like the Chargers and lost a legit QB and now can land a stud. We’re in that QB hell with the same questions Chargers had a shit season with their QB getting injured and HC getting fired. I just said that
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Post by giantbob71 on Mar 28, 2024 9:50:40 GMT -5
If the Giants take a WR at 6, gonna be some disappointed DJ fans on this site. The idea a good WR makes a bad QB great, is silly. Adams goes to the Raiders, Carr and Jimmy G. lose their jobs. Cousins gets hurt, Dobbs loses his job with Jefferson and a stud rookie. No Adam's in GB...no problem for Love. Ridley didn’t help Lawrence. Stroud made the Texans WRs better, not the other way around. No stud WR in KC...SB Champs. A great WR can't save a bad passing QB. There's no saving DJ...look what he did to Waller. A stud rookie WR will put up Slayton numbers, at best. LOL, What he did to Waller? JHC! Waller played in 12 games. Jones did nothing to him. www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WallDa01/gamelog/2023/You always miss the forest for the trees (Google it). Going into the season last year, Waller was going to be the target DJ needed, and Hyatt was going to be a #1 WR. Then what happened? DJ happened...he doesn't make anyone around him better. The Giants don't need a #1 WR...until they get a #1 QB. Same cast of characters, on this board, calling for a #1 WR, were sure Waller and Hyatt would be the answer last year... thegiantsboard.proboards.com/thread/13255/darren-waller-exactly-giants-needed?page=1
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Post by McCherry on Mar 28, 2024 10:11:12 GMT -5
If the Giants take a WR at 6, gonna be some disappointed DJ fans on this site. The idea a good WR makes a bad QB great, is silly. Adams goes to the Raiders, Carr and Jimmy G. lose their jobs. Cousins gets hurt, Dobbs loses his job with Jefferson and a stud rookie. No Adam's in GB...no problem for Love. Ridley didn’t help Lawrence. Stroud made the Texans WRs better, not the other way around. No stud WR in KC...SB Champs. A great WR can't save a bad passing QB. There's no saving DJ...look what he did to Waller. A stud rookie WR will put up Slayton numbers, at best. LOL, What he did to Waller? JHC! Waller played in 12 games. Jones did nothing to him. www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WallDa01/gamelog/2023/Waller averaged 4.6 RPG with Jones, which is higher than his career average. Waller also caused an INT with a pass off his hands and failed to come down with several catchable passes over the season, so he didn't exactly help his QB's overall.
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Merlin
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Post by Merlin on Mar 28, 2024 10:29:57 GMT -5
Waller averaged 4.6 RPG with Jones, which is higher than his career average. Waller also caused an INT with a pass off his hands and failed to come down with several catchable passes over the season, so he didn't exactly help his QB's overall. He has an axe to grind so none of that matters lol. Its Jones's fault because Hyatt a 3rd round pick and Waller a player who was able to be had due to age, injuries, slipping production. Didn't meet some fans expectations of pro bowl seasons or so. Its a common theme on message boards though for as long as I've been apart of them. Fan(s) identifies a bad guy/root of all problems. Proceeds to funnel all blame to said target relentlessly until target is no longer with team. Then moves all attention to the next bad guy.
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Post by Nick6475 on Mar 28, 2024 10:30:03 GMT -5
Waller averaged 4.6 RPG with Jones, which is higher than his career average. Waller also caused an INT with a pass off his hands and failed to come down with several catchable passes over the season, so he didn't exactly help his QB's overall. I agree, Waller was actually pretty decent when he was healthy. Waller killed Waller in that he can't stay healthy.
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Merlin
Special Teams
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Post by Merlin on Mar 28, 2024 10:51:29 GMT -5
Don't know if Jones is the answer at QB going forward. Right or wrong odds are he isn't due to his 5 year tenure and injury concerns.
I will say though that Darius Slayton was a 5th round pick who has been able to produce 5 solidly productive years with the Giants for a 5th round pick being drafted the same year as Jones.
So it is possible a reliable alpha #1 WR can end up producing well with Jones. Just got to be as reliable health wise as Slayton for the most part but more talented.
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Post by vinnie on Mar 28, 2024 12:59:11 GMT -5
I'm a little surprised that's something you picked up. The bottom line is this guy was amazing. It's just too bad things went the way they did for him and the Giants. Just to point out he brought on much of those problems himself. I just wanted to point out I feel dirty for liking this post, I’m going to take a shower now. Ewwww…
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Post by giantbob71 on Mar 28, 2024 14:25:53 GMT -5
Waller averaged 4.6 RPG with Jones, which is higher than his career average. Waller also caused an INT with a pass off his hands and failed to come down with several catchable passes over the season, so he didn't exactly help his QB's overall. I notice you didn't mention yards or TDs? Wonder why? Here were your thoughts about Waller and Hyatt last August. Having a guy that can get open is huge. Wish we had a #1 WR to go with Waller. Waller is the #1. Can't have two #1's. But Hyatt seems he could be close. Got plenty of 2's. Looks like our 2023 #1s didn't even combine for 1000 yards. I'm sure this year's #1 will make all the difference, right? Maybe, just maybe, it's the guy throwing the ball? Naaaaahhhh, can't be that!
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Post by jimmieray on Mar 28, 2024 15:11:58 GMT -5
Best of Odell Beckham Compilation.
I don't think I have ever seen anyone question OBJ talent, ever but he wore out his welcome here and once he left he was never the same Odell . He still made a few plays but he was never the Super Star Eli helped him become. Watching that video was interesting. Not only was Eli getting time to throw he was in may of those plays staring OBJ down .The Giants treated Odell well, but after the Boat trip and the interview it was time for him to leave. There seems to be some revisionist history on Beckum popping up again, where his only problems were in his legs later on. I suppose the failures at receiver since his departure have something to do with this, but I still recall a guy who took himself out of games long before the actual injuries piled up.
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Post by McCherry on Mar 28, 2024 15:28:57 GMT -5
Waller averaged 4.6 RPG with Jones, which is higher than his career average. Waller also caused an INT with a pass off his hands and failed to come down with several catchable passes over the season, so he didn't exactly help his QB's overall. I notice you didn't mention yards or TDs? Wonder why?
Here were your thoughts about Waller and Hyatt last August. Waller is the #1. Can't have two #1's. But Hyatt seems he could be close. Got plenty of 2's. Looks like our 2023 #1s didn't even combine for 1000 yards. I'm sure this year's #1 will make all the difference, right? Maybe, just maybe, it's the guy throwing the ball? Naaaaahhhh, can't be that! What about yards? Waller was leading all TE's in the NFL in yardage when he was hurt. But he only played 5 starts with Jones. Obviously, playing with backup QB's impacted his numbers, as well as his own failure to make some plays when he had the chance. But his best stretch of the season was with Jones.
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Post by giantbob71 on Mar 28, 2024 17:21:07 GMT -5
I notice you didn't mention yards or TDs? Wonder why?
Here were your thoughts about Waller and Hyatt last August. Looks like our 2023 #1s didn't even combine for 1000 yards. I'm sure this year's #1 will make all the difference, right? Maybe, just maybe, it's the guy throwing the ball? Naaaaahhhh, can't be that! What about yards? Waller was leading all TE's in the NFL in yardage when he was hurt. But he only played 5 starts with Jones. Obviously, playing with backup QB's impacted his numbers, as well as his own failure to make some plays when he had the chance. But his best stretch of the season was with Jones. Leading the league? It was less than 1/3rd of a season. Pacau Nacua was on pace for 10,000 yards through 5 games? It was still 48 yards a game (816 yards over 17 games) and zero TDs, for the highest paid TE. You'd have a better point, if he wasn't just taking away Slaytons production (167 yards, no TDs, over 5 games). Add another WR, and Wallers production will fall off...DJ isn't good enough to make one pass catcher great, definitely not making 2 better.
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Post by myronguyton29 on Mar 29, 2024 20:32:00 GMT -5
I was so impressed with Plax and Eli and their ball handling in those temps that day. Great FA signing Ernie. MAN THAT WAS EPIC.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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