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Post by ThatGuyRich on Mar 31, 2024 18:20:53 GMT -5
Read an online article yesterday suggesting the Giants could have an inside track to trading down with the Cards at #4.
It said Ryan Cowden the NY Giants advisor to our GM Shoen worked very closely in the Player Personnel Dept. when they were with the Tennessee Titans together with the Cards GM Monti Ossenfort.
Cowden apparently took over from Ossenfort in Tennessee when he left for Arizona. A very close relationship according to this online article. (Take with a grain of salt. An online reporter)
It said Arizona might not want to move down to the #11 pick. They would miss all 3 of the A-1 WR's in this draft at #11. Beside the working relationship these men have the Cards would be interested to move down only 2 spots and might be willing to take less to move down to #6 so they could still get one of the premier WR's in the draft. They apparently want an A-1 blue chip WR out of this draft for Kyler Murray.
Could just be click bait but it is reasonable to think there might be something to this.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 31, 2024 19:18:01 GMT -5
Read an online article yesterday suggesting the Giants could have an inside track to trading down with the Cards at #4. It said Ryan Cowden the NY Giants advisor to our GM Shoen worked very closely in the Player Personnel Dept. when they were with the Tennessee Titans together with the Cards GM Monti Ossenfort. Cowden apparently took over from Ossenfort in Tennessee when he left for Arizona. A very close relationship according to this online article. (Take with a grain of salt. An online reporter) It said Arizona might not want to move down to the #11 pick. They would miss all 3 of the A-1 WR's in this draft at #11. Beside the working relationship these men have the Cards would be interested to move down only 2 spots and might be willing to take less to move down to #6 so they could still get one of the premier WR's in the draft. They apparently want an A-1 blue chip WR out of this draft for Kyler Murray. Could just be click bait but it is reasonable to think there might be something to this. It could be I was thinking that myself being they already have a ton of capital if they can get little more and still get one of the top 2 or 3 WRs thats a win win they get what they need and some extra capital
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jimc
Special Teams
Posts: 194
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Post by jimc on Apr 1, 2024 6:24:50 GMT -5
If we are considering moving up to take a qb we better believe he has the potential to be a top 10 guy, because you are likely giving up a shot at a top receiver. For me, I say stick with 6 and build more of the team.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 1, 2024 6:55:53 GMT -5
Sounds like pre-draft nonsense to make an article. This one guy on the Giants knows some other guy that works with someones sister that got a sunburn and Arizona has a lot of sun....Giants trade to #4.
Can't wait to see what we do. As of right now our top 30 visits only include Maye and McCarthy. Would we really trade up for one of them?
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Post by hadenough on Apr 1, 2024 7:01:20 GMT -5
I think giving up more picks to get a QB would be a mistake. This is a team that needs more picks, not less.
Either stay where you are or move back to get additional picks. You will still end up with a QB.
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Post by Fletch842 on Apr 1, 2024 7:02:06 GMT -5
If we are considering moving up to take a qb we better believe he has the potential to be a top 10 guy, because you are likely giving up a shot at a top receiver. For me, I say stick with 6 and build more of the team. if we could move up without giving up another 1st or 2nd round pick, I'd be ok with it, but really think we need to let the draft come to us. None of the top QBs move me that much that I'd give up the farm for any of them.
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Post by cdngfan on Apr 1, 2024 7:02:49 GMT -5
If we are considering moving up to take a qb we better believe he has the potential to be a top 10 guy, because you are likely giving up a shot at a top receiver. For me, I say stick with 6 and build more of the team. That’s the whole thing. There’s nothing wrong with moving up for a QB. Just move up for a guy who blows you and your scouting department away. I don’t think the typical fan realizes they track these kids for years, not just 12 months. They focus on players entering the draft but they watch and create data on everyone in these college programs. If you love a QB, truly, then bet the farm. All this stuff I see about Minnesota has a better shot at #4 because of the extra 1st rd pick is mostly garbage. JS could give up his 1st next year too. And the Cards still pick 6th if they trade with us. Sure some fans will go ape shit for giving up that much for 2 spots, but that’s a false equivalency. You’re giving up those picks for the next Mahomes/Allen/Burrow The pick either turn out or it doesn’t. If it turns out the price doesn’t matter. If it doesn’t, no one is going to sing your praises because you took a dud at #6 vs traded more picks for him. You’re cooked anyway. If JS and his scouts aren’t in love, they won’t move up. Full stop.
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 1, 2024 7:12:39 GMT -5
If we are considering moving up to take a qb we better believe he has the potential to be a top 10 guy, because you are likely giving up a shot at a top receiver. For me, I say stick with 6 and build more of the team. Well if you're moving up from 6 it better be a top 5 player or preferably it is the top guy on your board and no one is close to providing the same impact.
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Post by TEM on Apr 1, 2024 7:29:42 GMT -5
If The GM and HC trade up. They are toast. No way they are fixing the roster giving up picks. We'll be a single digit win team with no hope for the future. This Ain't 2004
This roster lacks the players with the talent of Tiki Barber Derrick Ward Amani Toomer Osi Umenyiora Chris Snee Michael Strahan David Diehl Luke Petitgout Jeremy Shockey
This roster is literally a mess right now. We cannot afford to give a pick this year and 2 picks next year, one will be our 1st round pick. Most likely a top 10 pick. We give up our 1st next year. (still say we are a top 10 pick next year.) IMO top 5. We are giving up these guys.
LSU CB Zy Alexander 6'2" 188 4.4-40
Missouri WR Luther Burden III 5'11" 215 4.4-40
FSU EDGE Patrick Payton 6"5" 239 4.7 40
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mendy
Starter
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Post by mendy on Apr 1, 2024 7:45:25 GMT -5
If The GM and HC trade up. They are toast. No way they are fixing the roster giving up picks. We'll be a single digit win team with no hope for the future. This Ain't 2004 This roster lacks the players with the talent of Tiki Barber Derrick Ward Amani Toomer Osi Umenyiora Chris Snee Michael Strahan David Diehl Luke Petitgout Jeremy Shockey This roster is literally a mess right now. We cannot afford to give a pick this year and 2 picks next year, one will be our 1st round pick. Most likely a top 10 pick. I agree with you and would prefer a trade back for more picks. I do believe that Schoen has the authority to do what he sees fit without asking for permission from anyone. IMPO I think we should stay at #6 and take a WR or even the TE Bowers third choice would be the OL Alt. With that said I do believe we take a QB in a later round but if Schoen takes a QB early, oh well, I back Schoen.
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Post by myronguyton29 on Apr 1, 2024 7:54:30 GMT -5
**** A TRADE ...............
stay where we are and take a WR. Set the team up for the next qb we eventually get and if we suck this year it is what it is. Build the team up first.......
we need all the picks we got and can get.........
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Post by myronguyton29 on Apr 1, 2024 7:55:20 GMT -5
Read an online article yesterday suggesting the Giants could have an inside track to trading down with the Cards at #4. It said Ryan Cowden the NY Giants advisor to our GM Shoen worked very closely in the Player Personnel Dept. when they were with the Tennessee Titans together with the Cards GM Monti Ossenfort. Cowden apparently took over from Ossenfort in Tennessee when he left for Arizona. A very close relationship according to this online article. (Take with a grain of salt. An online reporter) It said Arizona might not want to move down to the #11 pick. They would miss all 3 of the A-1 WR's in this draft at #11. Beside the working relationship these men have the Cards would be interested to move down only 2 spots and might be willing to take less to move down to #6 so they could still get one of the premier WR's in the draft. They apparently want an A-1 blue chip WR out of this draft for Kyler Murray. Could just be click bait but it is reasonable to think there might be something to this. trading down lol? oh i read the rest lmao...
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Post by myronguyton29 on Apr 1, 2024 7:58:25 GMT -5
If we are considering moving up to take a qb we better believe he has the potential to be a top 10 guy, because you are likely giving up a shot at a top receiver. For me, I say stick with 6 and build more of the team. hellzzzzzzz yeaaaaaaaaaa, all the way.....
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Post by myronguyton29 on Apr 1, 2024 8:01:46 GMT -5
If we are considering moving up to take a qb we better believe he has the potential to be a top 10 guy, because you are likely giving up a shot at a top receiver. For me, I say stick with 6 and build more of the team. That’s the whole thing. There’s nothing wrong with moving up for a QB. Just move up for a guy who blows you and your scouting department away. I don’t think the typical fan realizes they track these kids for years, not just 12 months. They focus on players entering the draft but they watch and create data on everyone in these college programs. If you love a QB, truly, then bet the farm. All this stuff I see about Minnesota has a better shot at #4 because of the extra 1st rd pick is mostly garbage. JS could give up his 1st next year too. And the Cards still pick 6th if they trade with us. Sure some fans will go ape shit for giving up that much for 2 spots, but that’s a false equivalency. You’re giving up those picks for the next Mahomes/Allen/Burrow The pick either turn out or it doesn’t. If it turns out the price doesn’t matter. If it doesn’t, no one is going to sing your praises because you took a dud at #6 vs traded more picks for him. You’re cooked anyway. If JS and his scouts aren’t in love, they won’t move up. Full stop. yeah but with those picks you gave up you might have hit on one or all of them and build the team up for when you do get a decent qb.....
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Post by myronguyton29 on Apr 1, 2024 8:03:23 GMT -5
If The GM and HC trade up. They are toast. No way they are fixing the roster giving up picks. We'll be a single digit win team with no hope for the future. This Ain't 2004 This roster lacks the players with the talent of Tiki Barber Derrick Ward Amani Toomer Osi Umenyiora Chris Snee Michael Strahan David Diehl Luke Petitgout Jeremy Shockey This roster is literally a mess right now. We cannot afford to give a pick this year and 2 picks next year, one will be our 1st round pick. Most likely a top 10 pick. We give up our 1st next year. (still say we are a top 10 pick next year.) IMO top 5. We are giving up these guys. LSU CB Zy Alexander 6'2" 188 4.4-40 Missouri WR Luther Burden III 5'11" 215 4.4-40 FSU EDGE Patrick Payton 6"5"239 4.7 40 say it a lil louder for the blind deaf dumb folks in the back....
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Post by myronguyton29 on Apr 1, 2024 8:04:19 GMT -5
If The GM and HC trade up. They are toast. No way they are fixing the roster giving up picks. We'll be a single digit win team with no hope for the future. This Ain't 2004 This roster lacks the players with the talent of Tiki Barber Derrick Ward Amani Toomer Osi Umenyiora Chris Snee Michael Strahan David Diehl Luke Petitgout Jeremy Shockey This roster is literally a mess right now. We cannot afford to give a pick this year and 2 picks next year, one will be our 1st round pick. Most likely a top 10 pick. I agree with you and would prefer a trade back for more picks. I do believe that Schoen has the authority to do what he sees fit without asking for permission from anyone. IMPO I think we should stay at #6 and take a WR or even the TE Bowers third choice would be the OL Alt. With that said I do believe we take a QB in a later round but if Schoen takes a QB early, oh well, I back Schoen. we will not take Bowers at 6
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 1, 2024 8:21:56 GMT -5
If The GM and HC trade up. They are toast. No way they are fixing the roster giving up picks. We'll be a single digit win team with no hope for the future. This Ain't 2004 This roster lacks the players with the talent of Tiki Barber Derrick Ward Amani Toomer Osi Umenyiora Chris Snee Michael Strahan David Diehl Luke Petitgout Jeremy Shockey This roster is literally a mess right now. We cannot afford to give a pick this year and 2 picks next year, one will be our 1st round pick. Most likely a top 10 pick. I agree with you and would prefer a trade back for more picks. I do believe that Schoen has the authority to do what he sees fit without asking for permission from anyone. IMPO I think we should stay at #6 and take a WR or even the TE Bowers third choice would be the OL Alt. With that said I do believe we take a QB in a later round but if Schoen takes a QB early, oh well, I back Schoen. Bowers at #6 lol, some of you should have been comedians.
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Post by cdngfan on Apr 1, 2024 8:58:55 GMT -5
That’s the whole thing. There’s nothing wrong with moving up for a QB. Just move up for a guy who blows you and your scouting department away. I don’t think the typical fan realizes they track these kids for years, not just 12 months. They focus on players entering the draft but they watch and create data on everyone in these college programs. If you love a QB, truly, then bet the farm. All this stuff I see about Minnesota has a better shot at #4 because of the extra 1st rd pick is mostly garbage. JS could give up his 1st next year too. And the Cards still pick 6th if they trade with us. Sure some fans will go ape shit for giving up that much for 2 spots, but that’s a false equivalency. You’re giving up those picks for the next Mahomes/Allen/Burrow The pick either turn out or it doesn’t. If it turns out the price doesn’t matter. If it doesn’t, no one is going to sing your praises because you took a dud at #6 vs traded more picks for him. You’re cooked anyway. If JS and his scouts aren’t in love, they won’t move up. Full stop. yeah but with those picks you gave up you might have hit on one or all of them and build the team up for when you do get a decent qb..... . If I was in the chair I’d be picking at 6 or trading down. JS already made big QB decision that looks poor, and the stats in 1st rd drafted QBs are really lopsided (60%-70% failure rate), I don’t think you can survive betting on a rookie QB that looks like a dud. My #1 priority would be drafting a strong starter. If you get the o line right, and the defence right, you can live without a QB for the time being. If there’s a top 4 QB still on the board at 6 I think you can make a killing trading down. But it’s considered pretty established franchise management theory: if your scouts are telling you that they’ve found the best QB prospect they’ve seen in years, you now have a tough decision to make. If they’re not saying that, frankly I think the decision is a no brainer.
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Post by GameTime on Apr 1, 2024 9:42:15 GMT -5
aint happening
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Post by Fletch842 on Apr 1, 2024 9:57:21 GMT -5
yeah but with those picks you gave up you might have hit on one or all of them and build the team up for when you do get a decent qb..... . If I was in the chair I’d be picking at 6 or trading down. JS already made big QB decision that looks poor, and the stats in 1st rd drafted QBs are really lopsided (60%-70% failure rate), I don’t think you can survive betting on a rookie QB that looks like a dud. My #1 priority would be drafting a strong starter. If you get the o line right, and the defence right, you can live without a QB for the time being. If there’s a top 4 QB still on the board at 6 I think you can make a killing trading down. But it’s considered pretty established franchise management theory: if your scouts are telling you that they’ve found the best QB prospect they’ve seen in years, you now have a tough decision to make. If they’re not saying that, frankly I think the decision is a no brainer. I'm not super enamoured with any of the top QBs enough to trade up for them, and think we'd be stronger going for top positional players in round 1 & 2, maybe take a flyer on a guy like Rattler, Milton or Pratt in the 3rd - 5th depending on who else is on the boards.
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Post by myronguyton29 on Apr 1, 2024 10:35:15 GMT -5
yeah but with those picks you gave up you might have hit on one or all of them and build the team up for when you do get a decent qb..... . If I was in the chair I’d be picking at 6 or trading down. JS already made big QB decision that looks poor, and the stats in 1st rd drafted QBs are really lopsided (60%-70% failure rate), I don’t think you can survive betting on a rookie QB that looks like a dud. My #1 priority would be drafting a strong starter. If you get the o line right, and the defence right, you can live without a QB for the time being. If there’s a top 4 QB still on the board at 6 I think you can make a killing trading down. But it’s considered pretty established franchise management theory: if your scouts are telling you that they’ve found the best QB prospect they’ve seen in years, you now have a tough decision to make. If they’re not saying that, frankly I think the decision is a no brainer. i agree and I tell ya what I'm jealous of how the 49ers have built their team up over the years and all of the years of sucking and drafting high, building up their team then when they got any halfway decent qb they were always sniffing around and in the playoffs and around and in the SB........... Giants we finally have to do that mannnnnnnnn... build the damn trenches and depth and have that set or pretty much set.......
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Post by Kruunch on Apr 1, 2024 10:58:12 GMT -5
I agree with you and would prefer a trade back for more picks. I do believe that Schoen has the authority to do what he sees fit without asking for permission from anyone. IMPO I think we should stay at #6 and take a WR or even the TE Bowers third choice would be the OL Alt. With that said I do believe we take a QB in a later round but if Schoen takes a QB early, oh well, I back Schoen. we will not take Bowers at 6 This team needs a tight end like Kurt Cobain needs another hole in the head.. Schoen would not only be fired on the spot.. He would be sent to Antarctica to sell snow to the locals.
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Post by cdngfan on Apr 1, 2024 11:57:31 GMT -5
. If I was in the chair I’d be picking at 6 or trading down. JS already made big QB decision that looks poor, and the stats in 1st rd drafted QBs are really lopsided (60%-70% failure rate), I don’t think you can survive betting on a rookie QB that looks like a dud. My #1 priority would be drafting a strong starter. If you get the o line right, and the defence right, you can live without a QB for the time being. If there’s a top 4 QB still on the board at 6 I think you can make a killing trading down. But it’s considered pretty established franchise management theory: if your scouts are telling you that they’ve found the best QB prospect they’ve seen in years, you now have a tough decision to make. If they’re not saying that, frankly I think the decision is a no brainer. i agree and I tell ya what I'm jealous of how the 49ers have built their team up over the years and all of the years of sucking and drafting high, building up their team then when they got any halfway decent qb they were always sniffing around and in the playoffs and around and in the SB........... Giants we finally have to do that mannnnnnnnn... build the damn trenches and depth and have that set or pretty much set....... Letting SB and X walk signals exactly that. Probably not a hard sell to ownership for that strategy either. It’s less reactive. Last year (‘22) we outperformed expectations so they looked like they tried a constructive rebuild. It failed. They’re pivoting now. Fans that are sick of us sucking don’t what to hear rebuild, they don’t want to hear about “right direction”, but my unsupported hunch is Mara is DYING for some stability, so he’ll rate strategic direction over performance for the time being hoping that performance catches up. Changing coaches every 2 and GMs every 4 didn’t get him anywhere. If he sees the building of the franchise as hard grinding work as opposed to the magic touch then as long as player development and things like the o line are improving I think JS will be here for awhile. That SF model is the way to go (it’s not just them, but a good example). And Getty tried to improve the lines too but did so with a 1990s mentality and system.
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Post by myronguyton29 on Apr 1, 2024 12:11:50 GMT -5
we will not take Bowers at 6 This team needs a tight end like Kurt Cobain needs another hole in the head.. Schoen would not only be fired on the spot.. He would be sent to Antarctica to sell snow to the locals. lmfao absolutely............... He wouldn't be that fool in a million years..........
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Post by Martin on Apr 1, 2024 12:13:37 GMT -5
Make no mistake the Giants need a TE but no way at 6. That would be insane due to the fact that the team needs a QB, WR, Safety and CB. The current NFL success for playoff teams or close to playoff teams have a link to a very strong TE. All these TE's have one thing in common, there teams are highly competitive .
Kelce Kittle Hockenson Mark Andrews Goedert Ferguson and a couple of others
The Giants on the other hand have a broken down car who wants to retire probably.
Sure the Giants need a TE 100% the problem is they need a bunch of things. Jones is one hit away from being gone. You have to have a backup plan to that regardless of how he plays next season. If possible you pick a QB IMO.
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Post by myronguyton29 on Apr 1, 2024 12:14:41 GMT -5
i agree and I tell ya what I'm jealous of how the 49ers have built their team up over the years and all of the years of sucking and drafting high, building up their team then when they got any halfway decent qb they were always sniffing around and in the playoffs and around and in the SB........... Giants we finally have to do that mannnnnnnnn... build the damn trenches and depth and have that set or pretty much set....... Letting SB and X walk signals exactly that. Probably not a hard sell to ownership for that strategy either. It’s less reactive. Last year (‘22) we outperformed expectations so they looked like they tried a constructive rebuild. It failed. They’re pivoting now. Fans that are sick of us sucking don’t what to hear rebuild, they don’t want to hear about “right direction”, but my unsupported hunch is Mara is DYING for some stability, so he’ll rate strategic direction over performance for the time being hoping that performance catches up. Changing coaches every 2 and GMs every 4 didn’t get him anywhere. If he sees the building of the franchise as hard grinding work as opposed to the magic touch then as long as player development and things like the o line are improving I think JS will be here for awhile. That SF model is the way to go (it’s not just them, but a good example). And Getty tried to improve the lines too but did so with a 1990s mentality and system. and as well Mara should e afterall not only after '22 but also trying to quickly reset drafting SB with Eli and Odell. I mean at least that was a decent shot at thinking possibly though it didn't work out. Now it's time to suck it up ladies and gents and get this thing rollin the correct way.......
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 1, 2024 12:28:25 GMT -5
I think giving up more picks to get a QB would be a mistake. This is a team that needs more picks, not less. Either stay where you are or move back to get additional picks. You will still end up with a QB. I'm ok giving up draft picks for proven talent, like bringing in Burns. Giving up draft picks to take a chance on the 3rd QB off the board just seems like a mistake, especially since there is a chance he falls to #6 anyway.
They think they can win with (a healthy) Jones. They brought in Lock as injury insurance. Let's see what falls to us at 6 and make a decision from there.
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jimc
Special Teams
Posts: 194
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Post by jimc on Apr 1, 2024 17:54:25 GMT -5
If we are considering moving up to take a qb we better believe he has the potential to be a top 10 guy, because you are likely giving up a shot at a top receiver. For me, I say stick with 6 and build more of the team. Well if you're moving up from 6 it better be a top 5 player or preferably it is the top guy on your board and no one is close to providing the same impact. When I said “top 10 guy” in my post, I meant the FO should think he has enough potential to fit into the top 10 of the QB’s now playing.
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Post by myronguyton29 on Apr 1, 2024 19:34:38 GMT -5
we will not take Bowers at 6 This team needs a tight end like Kurt Cobain needs another hole in the head.. Schoen would not only be fired on the spot.. He would be sent to Antarctica to sell snow to the locals. Furthermore earlier when I made my first comment and reply to the Bowers thing I started to mention another Evan engram. Sure he's probably more polished overall and doesn't drop the ball etc or it won't have those issues like Engram had when he was with us even though he seemed to have cleaned things up with Jacksonville. But watching path to the draft now Charles Davis was talking about Bowers and how much he reminds him of Engram pretty much similar type of skill set and player and I was like shit ain't no damn way definitely not lol. The same way when we took Engram you take that when you had a set team and you just need a weapon to add in addition but definitely not in our situation then or now....
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Post by giantbob71 on Apr 2, 2024 1:42:59 GMT -5
If we are considering moving up to take a qb we better believe he has the potential to be a top 10 guy, because you are likely giving up a shot at a top receiver. For me, I say stick with 6 and build more of the team. That’s the whole thing. There’s nothing wrong with moving up for a QB. Just move up for a guy who blows you and your scouting department away. I don’t think the typical fan realizes they track these kids for years, not just 12 months. They focus on players entering the draft but they watch and create data on everyone in these college programs. If you love a QB, truly, then bet the farm. All this stuff I see about Minnesota has a better shot at #4 because of the extra 1st rd pick is mostly garbage. JS could give up his 1st next year too. And the Cards still pick 6th if they trade with us. Sure some fans will go ape shit for giving up that much for 2 spots, but that’s a false equivalency. You’re giving up those picks for the next Mahomes/Allen/Burrow The pick either turn out or it doesn’t. If it turns out the price doesn’t matter. If it doesn’t, no one is going to sing your praises because you took a dud at #6 vs traded more picks for him. You’re cooked anyway. If JS and his scouts aren’t in love, they won’t move up. Full stop. So basically, instead of being in a win-now position (Gettleman), Schoen is in a "f*ck it, what do I have to lose" situation? Every team scouts every player, for years, and they all miss...A LOT! Do you think Carolina fans share your enthusiasm, for a GM trading away the future, for a QB? Schoen has already been "blown away" by a QB, and he wasted $100 million on him. He may get lucky and he's definitely due...but I can't think of a person less qualified, to pick a QB, than Joe Schoen. Mara is a moron, but let's hope he learned his lesson, with Gettleman, and doesn't let another GM dig this organization into a deeper hole. Let Schoen get a QB, but get him at 6. Acting like Schoen, and his staff, are talent evaluation experts, is silly at best. Instead of letting a flawed GM trade 6, 47, and next year's #1 for a QB who "was touched by the hand of God", wouldn't it make more sense to draft... QB at 6 WR at 47 QB in the first round next year At least then you get a 50/50 shot with the QB and a potential stud WR...or let the guy, who already bet on Daniel Jones, put all his eggs in one basket? To the bolded part...if Schoen thinks the only way to save his job, is with the hopium of a rookie QB, it becomes a lot easier to be "blown away." Schoen worked his whole life to get where he is...doubtful he goes down without fighting, even if it means hurting the organization. We all know it wouldn't be the first time a GM has put his job over a team.
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