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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 7, 2024 11:39:09 GMT -5
wait, what?? Define what you mean by visibility. The visibility of a product has nothing to do with the FDA. The FDA evaluates clinical research based on both safety and often efficacy based on the direction of a regulatory consultation. Visibility has more to do with brand or benefit awareness along with market acceptance/demand. This is the abridged version. (what he told me) if the drugs kills over the prescribed about of Mice it should. The research is stopped. It will most likely kill as many Rats. If the initial trial of dosage on mice is under the accepted death rates, Then the life span of the mice in the test is compared a placebo and not test subjects. If there are anomalies in life span. The research is stopped. Than Rats Than higher Mammal Species Until it gets to Primates The research can be stopped at any step. if there are problems. Years of research to get to Human trials. The FDA needs to see the data on every step of the process. If the FDA does not like what it sees. They stop the research. Damn auto correct viability not visibility. It is millions in dollars invested. And it may get squashed. To try to counter failures. Each Pharma has competitive research division. A no war zone. They are basically researching the same ailments. When one of the research studies starts to fail. And are lost on how to bring it back on track They send feelers out on how to correct the issue. One or two companies may suggest we had success by doing this. Even with them working together. It is still 1-100 that make to human trials. Ok viability. I was at loss for visibility. I’ve invested and been in countless meetings with med device and recognize pharma, etc. not completely sold on the QB hit percentage b/c they draft as few aa their are few, 32, opportunities to start. i do think team should draft QBs more often and I think earlier too. With 17 games, I think you need at least 2 besides the traditional huge drop off from the #1 to #2.
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Post by TEM on Apr 7, 2024 12:10:15 GMT -5
This is the abridged version. (what he told me) if the drugs kills over the prescribed about of Mice it should. The research is stopped. It will most likely kill as many Rats. If the initial trial of dosage on mice is under the accepted death rates, Then the life span of the mice in the test is compared a placebo and not test subjects. If there are anomalies in life span. The research is stopped. Than Rats Than higher Mammal Species Until it gets to Primates The research can be stopped at any step. if there are problems. Years of research to get to Human trials. The FDA needs to see the data on every step of the process. If the FDA does not like what it sees. They stop the research. Damn auto correct viability not visibility. It is millions in dollars invested. And it may get squashed. To try to counter failures. Each Pharma has competitive research division. A no war zone. They are basically researching the same ailments. When one of the research studies starts to fail. And are lost on how to bring it back on track They send feelers out on how to correct the issue. One or two companies may suggest we had success by doing this. Even with them working together. It is still 1-100 that make to human trials. Ok viability. I was at loss for visibility. I’ve invested and been in countless meetings with med device and recognize pharma, etc. not completely sold on the QB hit percentage b/c they draft as few aa their are few, 32, opportunities to start. i do think team should draft QBs more often and I think earlier too. With 17 games, I think you need at least 2 besides the traditional huge drop off from the #1 to #2. Me I do not think it is the players. The stats say otherwise. But.............visually what I see. IMO the league is a self-defeating entity. It has way too many rules. The 53 is not big enough for a gulling season. The game plans are set for robot precision, not human frailties. The biggest problem of all. The player has expectations placed upon him to be something he is not. And not what he is. This is when the real stupid occurs. The League cannot accept. Humans are what they are. And the league keeps chasing that carrot on a stick. Humans are designed for 3 basic things. Self-preservation. Enviromental manipulation. Procreation. Most of what humans do, falls into one of those 3 categories or the in the process of helping other humans to achieve those 3 endeavors. The act of playing American Football is in direct conflict with one of them. Some of the rules are as well. That one is always in the back of the player head. I do not care who they are, it is there. That is a problem that is never is accounted for in any game plan. That is a hard task that seems to always be unseen. How to win and not get hurt.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 7, 2024 12:47:57 GMT -5
Ok viability. I was at loss for visibility. I’ve invested and been in countless meetings with med device and recognize pharma, etc. not completely sold on the QB hit percentage b/c they draft as few aa their are few, 32, opportunities to start. i do think team should draft QBs more often and I think earlier too. With 17 games, I think you need at least 2 besides the traditional huge drop off from the #1 to #2. Me I do not think it is the players. The stats say otherwise. But.............visually what I see. IMO the league is a self-defeating entity. It has way too many rules. The 53 is not big enough for a gulling season. The game plans are set for robot precision, not human frailties. The biggest problem of all. The player has expectations placed upon him to be something he is not. And not what he is. This is when the real stupid occurs. The League cannot accept. Humans are what they are. And the league keeps chasing that carrot on a stick. Humans are designed for 3 basic things. Self-preservation. Enviromental manipulation. Procreation. Most of what humans do, falls into one of those 3 categories or the in the process of helping other humans to achieve those 3 endeavors. The act of playing American Football is in direct conflict with one of them. Some of the rules are as well. That one is always in the back of the player head. I do not care who they are, it is there. That is a problem that is never is accounted for in any game plan. That is a hard task that seems to always be unseen. How to win and not get hurt. it’s a different game now. Rules enable a QB to be more more effective today vs yesterday. A HB isn’t as valuable, a CB is often more valuable than a MLB. Heck, even a RT and Guard has become more valuable or the LT isn’t the corner stone as often anymore. Get me more bodies and hopefully in these heads we find some who can figure this game out. It’s certainly different than the college or HS gam these guys have played. as far as how deep you are thinking, I’m not a mind reader so not sure which direction this is going. The self-preservation, environmental manipulation and procreation seems to be moving along without fball derailing it.
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Post by Kase1 on Apr 7, 2024 14:45:41 GMT -5
That was a good read. Honestly, Id be happy with any of the top 4 QBs at 6. Hell, Id also be happy with any of the top 3 WRs. At this point, I want to put DJ on the PUP list. Give him his money and cut him come 2025. Good for him signing such a dope deal (for him), he seems like a genuinely nice guy and Im sure he will have a long prosperous career... as a backup. In 2024, I want us to rock with Lock, I was significantly higher on him coming out of college than DJ, I actually thought Lock would be a 1st round pick and DJ was gonna be a 2nd rounder, turns out I was wrong. Sounds like he was running on talent alone and not really a 'student of the game' coming out of college, but now it sounds like he has turned the corner and realized what he needs to do to be a successful starting QB in the league.
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jimc
Special Teams
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Post by jimc on Apr 8, 2024 5:33:40 GMT -5
There is so much effort and time spent grading these QB’s from 1 to 6, but seriously, does anyone see elite in any of them? I just don’t feel it.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 8, 2024 7:31:25 GMT -5
There is so much effort and time spent grading these QB’s from 1 to 6, but seriously, does anyone see elite in any of them? I just don’t feel it. idk but how do you feel about Jones? Drew Lock might beat him out.
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Post by inthezone on Apr 8, 2024 7:36:51 GMT -5
There is so much effort and time spent grading these QB’s from 1 to 6, but seriously, does anyone see elite in any of them? I just don’t feel it. idk but how do you feel about Jones? Drew Lock might beat him out. That would be great if Lock could develop with these coaches and be a better player then Jones has been!
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jimc
Special Teams
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Post by jimc on Apr 8, 2024 7:38:59 GMT -5
There is so much effort and time spent grading these QB’s from 1 to 6, but seriously, does anyone see elite in any of them? I just don’t feel it. idk but how do you feel about Jones? Drew Lock might beat him out. Hey, if Lock beats him out, so be it. At least you didn't have to waste your pick on someone maybe not as good or a little bit better than what you have in house.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 8, 2024 7:40:26 GMT -5
idk but how do you feel about Jones? Drew Lock might beat him out. Hey, if Lock beats him out, so be it. At least you didn't have to waste your pick on someone maybe not as good or a little bit better than what you have in house. hmm, good point. Wish we knew the answer before the draft though.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 8, 2024 7:42:44 GMT -5
idk but how do you feel about Jones? Drew Lock might beat him out. That would be great if Lock could develop with these coaches and be a better player than he. Jones has been! when we see a Geno Smith and some of these QBs contributing more on the 2nd team I really wonder if it just takes longer for kids to understand the NFL game. It’s kinda why I would like the Giants to go QB b/c the kid, like Love, Mahomes, etc, has at least a year to learn without going out there. How often does a QB get red shirted in college and not start as a freshman? A lot, yet in the NFL it’s often get out there.
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jimc
Special Teams
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Post by jimc on Apr 8, 2024 7:45:04 GMT -5
That would be great if Lock could develop with these coaches and be a better player than he. Jones has been! when we see a Geno Smith and some of these QBs contributing more on the 2nd team I really wonder if it just takes longer for kids to understand the NFL game. It’s kinda why I would like the Giants to go QB b/c the kid, like Love, Mahomes, etc, has at least a year to learn without going out there. How often does a QB get red shirted in college and not start as a freshman? A lot, yet in the NFL it’s often get out there. Don't disagree with this logic, but you can't do this with the 6th pick.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 8, 2024 7:49:47 GMT -5
when we see a Geno Smith and some of these QBs contributing more on the 2nd team I really wonder if it just takes longer for kids to understand the NFL game. It’s kinda why I would like the Giants to go QB b/c the kid, like Love, Mahomes, etc, has at least a year to learn without going out there. How often does a QB get red shirted in college and not start as a freshman? A lot, yet in the NFL it’s often get out there. Don't disagree with this logic, but you can't do this with the 6th pick. yes you can. Mahomes went a bit later but he sat. You can sit the kid. You can hope Jones either becomes the guy or increases his trade value for next off-season. This team has a long way to go and a veteran should be leading this imo before a kid does.
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giantsalmon
Starter
Came over from a defunct board. Formerly LakeO Giant fan
Posts: 3,901
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Post by giantsalmon on Apr 8, 2024 7:55:04 GMT -5
Ok viability. I was at loss for visibility. I’ve invested and been in countless meetings with med device and recognize pharma, etc. not completely sold on the QB hit percentage b/c they draft as few aa their are few, 32, opportunities to start. i do think team should draft QBs more often and I think earlier too. With 17 games, I think you need at least 2 besides the traditional huge drop off from the #1 to #2. Me I do not think it is the players. The stats say otherwise. But.............visually what I see. IMO the league is a self-defeating entity. It has way too many rules. The 53 is not big enough for a gulling season. The game plans are set for robot precision, not human frailties. The biggest problem of all. The player has expectations placed upon him to be something he is not. And not what he is. This is when the real stupid occurs. The League cannot accept. Humans are what they are. And the league keeps chasing that carrot on a stick. Humans are designed for 3 basic things. Self-preservation. Enviromental manipulation. Procreation. Most of what humans do, falls into one of those 3 categories or the in the process of helping other humans to achieve those 3 endeavors. The act of playing American Football is in direct conflict with one of them. Some of the rules are as well. That one is always in the back of the player head. I do not care who they are, it is there. That is a problem that is never is accounted for in any game plan. That is a hard task that seems to always be unseen. How to win and not get hurt. Thought provoking TEM. That first on the list of 3 is critical to building a roster. A guy like the new RB NYG signed is more likely to not have this as a priority. Much like late rounders Ahmad Bradshaw or Pacheco. Yes, its for our amusement but they carve out careers and cost the teams less than the thoroughbred RBs. Thats why teams that are smart will keep their pipeline full of RB prospects. I call it "chipped". Have something to prove--and it never stops.
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giantsalmon
Starter
Came over from a defunct board. Formerly LakeO Giant fan
Posts: 3,901
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Post by giantsalmon on Apr 8, 2024 7:58:34 GMT -5
That was a good read. Honestly, Id be happy with any of the top 4 QBs at 6. Hell, Id also be happy with any of the top 3 WRs. At this point, I want to put DJ on the PUP list. Give him his money and cut him come 2025. Good for him signing such a dope deal (for him), he seems like a genuinely nice guy and Im sure he will have a long prosperous career... as a backup. In 2024, I want us to rock with Lock, I was significantly higher on him coming out of college than DJ, I actually thought Lock would be a 1st round pick and DJ was gonna be a 2nd rounder, turns out I was wrong. Sounds like he was running on talent alone and not really a 'student of the game' coming out of college, but now it sounds like he has turned the corner and realized what he needs to do to be a successful starting QB in the league. I too, was on this board stating I had Lock over DJ. I agree completely on your take on Lock at this point. If the QB draft doesnt fall the way they want it to I think Lock will have a real shot to be the starter. That injury clause could keep DJ off the field entirely in '24.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 8, 2024 8:01:34 GMT -5
idk but how do you feel about Jones? Drew Lock might beat him out. That would be great if Lock could develop with these coaches and be a better player then Jones has been! Shouldn’t be too hard to do but Jones will get the benefit of the doubt if it’s even remotely close since Schoen paid him. It would also be dumb because of Jones injury clause.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 8, 2024 8:07:47 GMT -5
That was a good read. Honestly, Id be happy with any of the top 4 QBs at 6. Hell, Id also be happy with any of the top 3 WRs. At this point, I want to put DJ on the PUP list. Give him his money and cut him come 2025. Good for him signing such a dope deal (for him), he seems like a genuinely nice guy and Im sure he will have a long prosperous career... as a backup. In 2024, I want us to rock with Lock, I was significantly higher on him coming out of college than DJ, I actually thought Lock would be a 1st round pick and DJ was gonna be a 2nd rounder, turns out I was wrong. Sounds like he was running on talent alone and not really a 'student of the game' coming out of college, but now it sounds like he has turned the corner and realized what he needs to do to be a successful starting QB in the league. I too, was on this board stating I had Lock over DJ. I agree completely on your take on Lock at this point. If the QB draft doesnt fall the way they want it to I think Lock will have a real shot to be the starter. That injury clause could keep DJ off the field entirely in '24. The clause should keep him off the field but it won’t. 1) MAYBE Schoen wants to prove paying DJ wasn’t a mistake and can at least try to increase and trade value he may have if he plays well 2) Just my opinion, but I think the NFL “community” would view that as a dirty move so I don’t think Mara would let it happen even if Schoen wanted to bench him I do agree with you though, this is a business and it would be a dumb business move to play an oft injured QB who could significantly alter the cap for 2025 if he gets hurt again.
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Post by Danke Schoen on Apr 8, 2024 8:16:20 GMT -5
What consituttes success? Getting on the field? Obvious if you 5 starters and some backups on the LOS they likely all get time whereas there is basically 1 QB. You have roughly 160 starting OL and 32 starting QBs. So yeah, finding the QB will have a lower success rate. My model shows per draft pick. In a good statistical model. That is built for success. Pharmaceutical companies use samples all the time to prove the or disprove the visibility of their product. I have a friend that is a statistician for one of them. 1 in 100 drugs meets, it doesn't kill everyone and works for the ailment. and is allowed for human testing. The data that is produce is terabytes for each product sent to the FDA to allow testing on people. When the model works. The lower the sample size. The better the results. The larger the sample size produces anomalies and the probability of those abnormality occurring. When those statistical theorems are applied to the draft. It follows a bad product model. The lower sample size (QBs) is producing a bad result. ( in reality the entire way players are draft is a failure.) If how players are drafted is vetted correctly in the current model, A model of failure. (the success rate of a draft pick) QBs should be at rate of 25%. I will say it again, AI is going to rip the roof off conventional drafting techniques. What’s the definition of “success” in that model?
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Post by cdngfan on Apr 8, 2024 8:25:29 GMT -5
I too, was on this board stating I had Lock over DJ. I agree completely on your take on Lock at this point. If the QB draft doesnt fall the way they want it to I think Lock will have a real shot to be the starter. That injury clause could keep DJ off the field entirely in '24. The clause should keep him off the field but it won’t. 1) MAYBE Schoen wants to prove paying DJ wasn’t a mistake and can at least try to increase and trade value he may have if he plays well 2) Just my opinion, but I think the NFL “community” would view that as a dirty move so I don’t think Mara would let it happen even if Schoen wanted to bench him I do agree with you though, this is a business and it would be a dumb business move to play an oft injured QB who could significantly alter the cap for 2025 if he gets hurt again. I think DJ is going to make this decision easy. We’re all looking for ways to get out from under that contract, but I’m 100% sure the perspective of our GM/HC is we better win games. I don’t think they want to sit in front of Mara and talk about how they’re glad they benched DJ and despite only winning 6 games in 24’ they’re able to dump that contract. They won’t keep their jobs that way. They’re going to try and win and they’ll use DJ if he helps them do it. I don’t think there’s any upside to trying to prove your contract was a good one. If he plays like he did last year they’ll absolutely bench him and the added benefit will be that keeping him under glass all them to move on. Where this gets weird is if he starts playing well. Not DJ well. Actually playing well. Then they have an issue, but as you alluded to it probably let’s them trade him. I’ve said this in other threads. This GM/HC needs the o line to play better in order to keep their jobs. They don’t have a QB who can hide poor line play, so it’s o line improvement or bust. Strangely, how we do at QB is secondary at this point.
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Post by cdngfan on Apr 8, 2024 8:33:33 GMT -5
That would be great if Lock could develop with these coaches and be a better player than he. Jones has been! when we see a Geno Smith and some of these QBs contributing more on the 2nd team I really wonder if it just takes longer for kids to understand the NFL game. It’s kinda why I would like the Giants to go QB b/c the kid, like Love, Mahomes, etc, has at least a year to learn without going out there. How often does a QB get red shirted in college and not start as a freshman? A lot, yet in the NFL it’s often get out there. I think it’s taking franchises too long to figure this out, but I predict you’re going to start seeing early drafted QBs sit more to develop at the NFL level, AND give franchises a chance to build out their rosters to support that development. It goes against conventional wisdom to sit an early drafted QB. But conventional wisdom is resulting in a 60-70% failure rate for 1st rd QBs (failure defined as not being retained by your drafting team). It actually requires ownership to allow a GM to develop a QB slower. The “start now” is because picking early means you suck, and if you suck you can’t suck for long and keep your job. So an owner has to throw some additional time on contracts for GMs and give them the confidence that you’re interested in the long game. A few things have to change in order for QBs to have a higher success rate, but I think we’re going to see it happen more regularly.
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Post by Kruunch on Apr 8, 2024 8:47:57 GMT -5
idk but how do you feel about Jones? Drew Lock might beat him out. That would be great if Lock could develop with these coaches and be a better player then Jones has been! Lock blows.. There’s a reason he’s been tossed around like a joint.. To think he can turn it on now is laughable. Our next starter is living in a dorm right now..
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Post by McCherry on Apr 8, 2024 9:07:12 GMT -5
That would be great if Lock could develop with these coaches and be a better player then Jones has been! Lock blows.. There’s a reason he’s been tossed around like a joint.. To think he can turn it on now is laughable. Our next starter is living in a dorm right now.. Lock is not a good QB. He's an emergency backup. Your season is over if Lock has to play for more than a game or two.
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Post by inthezone on Apr 8, 2024 9:28:15 GMT -5
That would be great if Lock could develop with these coaches and be a better player then Jones has been! Lock blows.. There’s a reason he’s been tossed around like a joint.. To think he can turn it on now is laughable. Our next starter is living in a dorm right now.. I'm also not a fan of Lock but there sure are enough supporters of him out here.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 8, 2024 13:22:55 GMT -5
My credible sources don’t say much but tell me . . . .
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