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Post by idkaname on Apr 8, 2024 10:17:46 GMT -5
I think that GMs still get lazy and fall in love with labels. Plax was gone, why did we necessarily need a "tall" receiver? Ramses Barden The league is enamored with Tyreek Hill a blazing fast small and shifty receiver. Why did we think we could find lightning in a bottle drafting those labels? Toney Why do we need to call guys "freakish athletes" and "matchup nightmares" Travis Beckum and Evan Engram. It seems like they get lazy, much lazier than we would think. you can't go deep in research for mid round picks but rounds 1 and 2, absolutely. Does anyone here think that if the Giants checked out a guy like Eli Apple with his teammates we wouldn't have learned what an immature guy he was?? Again I call it lazy... I don't think it's that simple. I think your thought process is lazy if anything. You need to find guys that fit what you're trying to accomplish, guys that ,mesh with the culture, have the right coaches to put them in position for success, and draw out their strengths etc. It's not just finding a good football player, because many of the busts actually are...they just don't fit the scheme/culture, get the right coaching, aren't used correctly etc...There's so many unknown variables that you can't measure before selecting them and that's where the guessing game comes into place. Otherwise there would be very few busts...I don't believe for one second we tried to "duplicate" plax with Barden or Hill with Toney. We simply tried to find players that could fill certain roles and they didn't work out. As for the Beckum and Engrams, we were trying to be innovative...we actually had one of the original "modern" TEs. Could you imagine Shockey in todays league? The only lazy scouting that occurs during the draft process are the so called "experts" that mock the same exact players to the same exact teams and after 5 picks go off the board everyone is like "OMG THIS GUY IS FALLING WHAT A STEAL at 6, I mean 7, I mean 8, I mean whatever team is going to draft him....he was taken at the end of round 2? These guys just got a baller"...(proceeds to be out of the league in 2 years). Classic.
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Post by cdngfan on Apr 8, 2024 10:23:10 GMT -5
Check out Roseman’s record in the last three years in rd 1&2: pretty shitty. And he’s considered a “great” GM. Getty takes alot of heat (as he should), but his record in the 1st rd wasn’t bad. Not amazing, but as good as good GMs. His complete inability to find a starter outside of the 1st rd (X being the exception that proves the rule), out of date positional value, and just an out of date way of running a franchise is where he ran into trouble. I checked them out.. And you couldn’t be more wrong if you tried.. Besides Nolan Smith who looks like a slug.. The rest have been integral pieces to the youth movement. Jalen Carter made all rookie team. Which around here he would have a city block named after him. Jordan Davis is a menace against the run. Cam Jurgens started at guard for two years.. and will now fill the big shoes left by Jason Kelce. And Devonta Smith and Landon Dickerson are studs. Gettleman doesn’t belong in the same breath let alone same sentence as Roseman.. Jalen Carter was drafted because of the work ethic questions around Jordan Davis. Jurgens looks like a decent pick but missed 7 games and played in 11 (after red-shirting last year), Nolan Smith is a slug, and Steen is a nobody. I’ve never been a Devonta Smith fan. I wanted him bad in the draft and how feel lucky we didn’t. He’s half the WR he is without AJ getting all the defensive attention. We’ll have to agree to disagree on this.
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Post by Kruunch on Apr 8, 2024 10:48:50 GMT -5
I checked them out.. And you couldn’t be more wrong if you tried.. Besides Nolan Smith who looks like a slug.. The rest have been integral pieces to the youth movement. Jalen Carter made all rookie team. Which around here he would have a city block named after him. Jordan Davis is a menace against the run. Cam Jurgens started at guard for two years.. and will now fill the big shoes left by Jason Kelce. And Devonta Smith and Landon Dickerson are studs. Gettleman doesn’t belong in the same breath let alone same sentence as Roseman.. stopped reading at Davis, who's currently flirting with bust status Says who.. You? He’s had his struggles with getting his wind up and being a better pro with conditioning. Instead of ducking from the head hunters.. He came out and put his neck out there. Bust.. Mother ****** played every game last year and is the clear cut starter alongside Carter.
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Post by idkaname on Apr 8, 2024 12:31:18 GMT -5
stopped reading at Davis, who's currently flirting with bust status Says who.. You? He’s had his struggles with getting his wind up and being a better pro with conditioning. Instead of ducking from the head hunters.. He came out and put his neck out there. Bust.. Mother ****** played every game last year and is the clear cut starter alongside Carter. 61.5 run grade in 2023 as opposed to 71.8 his rookie year. He's getting worse because he's out of shape but ok
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 8, 2024 12:57:49 GMT -5
I checked them out.. And you couldn’t be more wrong if you tried.. Besides Nolan Smith who looks like a slug.. The rest have been integral pieces to the youth movement. Jalen Carter made all rookie team. Which around here he would have a city block named after him. Jordan Davis is a menace against the run. Cam Jurgens started at guard for two years.. and will now fill the big shoes left by Jason Kelce. And Devonta Smith and Landon Dickerson are studs. Gettleman doesn’t belong in the same breath let alone same sentence as Roseman.. Jalen Carter was drafted because of the work ethic questions around Jordan Davis. Jurgens looks like a decent pick but missed 7 games and played in 11 (after red-shirting last year), Nolan Smith is a slug, and Steen is a nobody. I’ve never been a Devonta Smith fan. I wanted him bad in the draft and how feel lucky we didn’t. He’s half the WR he is without AJ getting all the defensive attention. We’ll have to agree to disagree on this. Crazy how a half ass team cobbled together by Roseman keeps winning and running circles around us. If Joe Schoen can miss like Roseman I wouldn't be as concerned for the state this roster is currently in.
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Post by Kruunch on Apr 8, 2024 13:49:19 GMT -5
Says who.. You? He’s had his struggles with getting his wind up and being a better pro with conditioning. Instead of ducking from the head hunters.. He came out and put his neck out there. Bust.. Mother ****** played every game last year and is the clear cut starter alongside Carter. 61.5 run grade in 2023 as opposed to 71.8 his rookie year. He's getting worse because he's out of shape but ok Last guy who cited PFF for anything is now sucking **** for quarters.. Because he can’t buy a clue.
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Post by idkaname on Apr 8, 2024 14:01:15 GMT -5
61.5 run grade in 2023 as opposed to 71.8 his rookie year. He's getting worse because he's out of shape but ok Last guy who cited PFF for anything is now sucking **** for quarters.. Because he can’t buy a clue. Just backing up what my eyes saw. I watch philly every week in hopes they lose, I know them better than I should. Even their most optimistic board members rag on him
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Post by Jomo on Apr 8, 2024 14:19:49 GMT -5
I think that GMs still get lazy and fall in love with labels. Plax was gone, why did we necessarily need a "tall" receiver? Ramses Barden The league is enamored with Tyreek Hill a blazing fast small and shifty receiver. Why did we think we could find lightning in a bottle drafting those labels? Toney Why do we need to call guys "freakish athletes" and "matchup nightmares" Travis Beckum and Evan Engram. It seems like they get lazy, much lazier than we would think. you can't go deep in research for mid round picks but rounds 1 and 2, absolutely. Does anyone here think that if the Giants checked out a guy like Eli Apple with his teammates we wouldn't have learned what an immature guy he was?? Again I call it lazy... I don't think it's that simple. I think your thought process is lazy if anything. You need to find guys that fit what you're trying to accomplish, guys that ,mesh with the culture, have the right coaches to put them in position for success, and draw out their strengths etc. It's not just finding a good football player, because many of the busts actually are...they just don't fit the scheme/culture, get the right coaching, aren't used correctly etc...There's so many unknown variables that you can't measure before selecting them and that's where the guessing game comes into place. Otherwise there would be very few busts...I don't believe for one second we tried to "duplicate" plax with Barden or Hill with Toney. We simply tried to find players that could fill certain roles and they didn't work out. As for the Beckum and Engrams, we were trying to be innovative...we actually had one of the original "modern" TEs. Could you imagine Shockey in todays league? The only lazy scouting that occurs during the draft process are the so called "experts" that mock the same exact players to the same exact teams and after 5 picks go off the board everyone is like "OMG THIS GUY IS FALLING WHAT A STEAL at 6, I mean 7, I mean 8, I mean whatever team is going to draft him....he was taken at the end of round 2? These guys just got a baller"...(proceeds to be out of the league in 2 years). Classic. Sticking with the simplicity theme, and accepting your thought that they are not lazy, then they simply suck at evaluating talent. One or two or three drafts may be too small a sampling to evaluate the people who are evaluating talent for us. After more than a decade of misery, it is more than obvious we were and may still be relying on the wrong people to lead us into the draft. Not sure how much Schoen has blown up the scouting staff and their first line leader.
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Post by idkaname on Apr 8, 2024 14:51:01 GMT -5
I don't think it's that simple. I think your thought process is lazy if anything. You need to find guys that fit what you're trying to accomplish, guys that ,mesh with the culture, have the right coaches to put them in position for success, and draw out their strengths etc. It's not just finding a good football player, because many of the busts actually are...they just don't fit the scheme/culture, get the right coaching, aren't used correctly etc...There's so many unknown variables that you can't measure before selecting them and that's where the guessing game comes into place. Otherwise there would be very few busts...I don't believe for one second we tried to "duplicate" plax with Barden or Hill with Toney. We simply tried to find players that could fill certain roles and they didn't work out. As for the Beckum and Engrams, we were trying to be innovative...we actually had one of the original "modern" TEs. Could you imagine Shockey in todays league? The only lazy scouting that occurs during the draft process are the so called "experts" that mock the same exact players to the same exact teams and after 5 picks go off the board everyone is like "OMG THIS GUY IS FALLING WHAT A STEAL at 6, I mean 7, I mean 8, I mean whatever team is going to draft him....he was taken at the end of round 2? These guys just got a baller"...(proceeds to be out of the league in 2 years). Classic. Sticking with the simplicity theme, and accepting your thought that they are not lazy, then they simply suck at evaluating talent. One or two or three drafts may be too small a sampling to evaluate the people who are evaluating talent for us. After more than a decade of misery, it is more than obvious we were and may still be relying on the wrong people to lead us into the draft. Not sure how much Schoen has blown up the scouting staff and their first line leader. I don't disagree with that, but I think it's been more about poor coaching
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Apr 8, 2024 15:24:32 GMT -5
Dude sucks at drafting. He's considered "great" because he loves picking up a bunch of FAs that use to be good(Names, popularity contest). It's not going to work often and will even have the opposite result, like last year. I'll mention this again, under Howie the eagle have NEVER had a better season than their previous year. Meaning his drafting sucks and he goes out and "fixes" roster holes by overpaying vets and backloading contracts that fixes the issue temporarily. He's so bad at drafting, he had to over-pay for a RB in FA (Barkley) despite having a quality Oline, he can't even find Dime-a-dozen players. You sure the Eagles have never had a better season than there previous year? The Eagles have made the playoffs over 50% of the years while he's been GM. He did draft Brandon Graham in his first year as GM, and multiple pro bowlers in the selected in the last few drafts. Thought the Barkley pick up wasn't bad, neither did Mara..Mara said it made him sick. But that is what it is, I think it made sense for us and them. Don't like the Eagles but got to give credit where it's due. The Eagles 1st rd picks the last 4 years seem pretty good to me. I believe they have 3 Georgia players in the first 2 rds in the last 2 years. They need to improve their OL and secondary this year. Jalen Carter 2023 Jordan Davis 2022 Devonte Smith 2021 Jalen Reagor 2020 Barkley is going to have a big year with the Eagles. Their offense will be potent.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Apr 8, 2024 15:32:21 GMT -5
Check out Roseman’s record in the last three years in rd 1&2: pretty shitty. And he’s considered a “great” GM. Getty takes alot of heat (as he should), but his record in the 1st rd wasn’t bad. Not amazing, but as good as good GMs. His complete inability to find a starter outside of the 1st rd (X being the exception that proves the rule), out of date positional value, and just an out of date way of running a franchise is where he ran into trouble. and his FA signings were abysmal... Though he did make a pretty nice trade for A.J. Brown.
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Post by McCherry on Apr 8, 2024 15:33:38 GMT -5
Says who.. You? He’s had his struggles with getting his wind up and being a better pro with conditioning. Instead of ducking from the head hunters.. He came out and put his neck out there. Bust.. Mother ****** played every game last year and is the clear cut starter alongside Carter. 61.5 run grade in 2023 as opposed to 71.8 his rookie year. He's getting worse because he's out of shape but ok He had a terrible second half last season and was called out for being out of shape. He didn't deny it. That was a part of the Eagles collapse. He's not a bust, but he needs to turn things around which he also acknowledged.
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 8, 2024 15:41:30 GMT -5
and his FA signings were abysmal... Though he did make a pretty nice trade for A.J. Brown. He also turned the Jalon Reagor pick in Jalen Carter or Jordan Davis. Sold Reagor for what he could as soon as he saw it wasn't going to work out.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Apr 8, 2024 15:50:44 GMT -5
Though he did make a pretty nice trade for A.J. Brown. He also turned the Jalon Reagor pick in Jalen Carter or Jordan Davis. Sold Reagor for what he could as soon as he saw it wasn't going to work out. Thanks Blue didn't realize that.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 8, 2024 16:21:02 GMT -5
61.5 run grade in 2023 as opposed to 71.8 his rookie year. He's getting worse because he's out of shape but ok Last guy who cited PFF for anything is now sucking **** for quarters.. Because he can’t buy a clue. I didn’t realize Red’s prices were that cheap
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 8, 2024 20:00:11 GMT -5
He also turned the Jalon Reagor pick in Jalen Carter or Jordan Davis. Sold Reagor for what he could as soon as he saw it wasn't going to work out. Thanks Blue didn't realize that. He traded Reagor who was drafted in 2020 to the Vikings in 2022 for a 2023 7th and a 2024 4th rounder. Then in 2023 he traded thier 1st rounder no.10 and the 2024 4th rounder to the Bears to move up one spot to 9 to get Jalen Carter. The weird part was the Vikings picked Justin Jefferson right after the Eagles picked Reagor. Why did the Vikings give up draft picks to take on Reagor 2 years later?
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Post by giantbob71 on Apr 8, 2024 22:54:24 GMT -5
I don't know, he couldn't be that bad and slow if he never gave up a TD in college lol. There's a direct relation between how good you are and how much crap NFL teams are willing to deal with. He was on the wrong side of that equation, Toney is also lol.
No one hits at a fairly high % in the draft. There are just way too many things that can go wrong. Even if the GM made the right pick, the player still might not develop. Neal IMO is a perfect example. He was still the right pick. Injuries and lack of development aren't on Schoen. Not to say GMs are exempt from blame though. I think DG made the wrong call with Toney.
If Neal was the right pick he wouldn’t be the biggest liability on the O line, especially for where he was drafted. I don’t give a shit what the analysts say, it’s the GM’s job to figure out who will be a good player and who won’t be. If we’re just going off Walter Football and other analysts, any of us could be GM’s and just fill in spots where we need players. Same goes for QB’s, most GM’s usually get one shot to figure it out, it’s on them to make sure they get the right guy regardless of where they are ranked or who says what. I do understand a GM can’t control injuries but Neal has had plenty of time, even when he wasn’t injured, and the dude never even flashed being a top 10 pick or even a good all around RT. He’s been one of the worst in the league. As far as development, that excuse can only go so far and for so long. We’ll see what he does this year but IMO, for where he was drafted, unless he turns into an All Pro he’s already a bust. Kinda reminds me of DJ. No he wasn’t put in a perfect position, and yes he’s had injuries, but when he has had opportunities he’s failed to make the most of them consistently which is what you need from a franchise QB. This! Every GM is eventually graded on the effectiveness of his decisions. Excuses only work for so long...DJ is the perfect example!
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Post by cdngfan on Apr 10, 2024 6:07:36 GMT -5
Jalen Carter was drafted because of the work ethic questions around Jordan Davis. Jurgens looks like a decent pick but missed 7 games and played in 11 (after red-shirting last year), Nolan Smith is a slug, and Steen is a nobody. I’ve never been a Devonta Smith fan. I wanted him bad in the draft and how feel lucky we didn’t. He’s half the WR he is without AJ getting all the defensive attention. We’ll have to agree to disagree on this. Crazy how a half ass team cobbled together by Roseman keeps winning and running circles around us. If Joe Schoen can miss like Roseman I wouldn't be as concerned for the state this roster is currently in. Let’s give JS 8 years to build like Roseman has had and then we’ll have a fairer comparison. My argument isn’t that Roseman is trash, it’s that our standard of good GM/bad GM comes from uneven comparisons between franchises. For the record I think Roseman is a great GM. What I question is when we look at our drafting record and decide it’s not good enough, it’s instructive to look at a good GM and see if they’re missing on picks in a way that is similar to what we complain about. And if I use the two drafts JS has been here and look at Roseman’s picks in the same two drafts, they’re comparable.
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 10, 2024 7:24:49 GMT -5
Crazy how a half ass team cobbled together by Roseman keeps winning and running circles around us. If Joe Schoen can miss like Roseman I wouldn't be as concerned for the state this roster is currently in. Let’s give JS 8 years to build like Roseman has had and then we’ll have a fairer comparison. My argument isn’t that Roseman is trash, it’s that our standard of good GM/bad GM comes from uneven comparisons between franchises. For the record I think Roseman is a great GM. What I question is when we look at our drafting record and decide it’s not good enough, it’s instructive to look at a good GM and see if they’re missing on picks in a way that is similar to what we complain about. And if I use the two drafts JS has been here and look at Roseman’s picks in the same two drafts, they’re comparable. wasn't Howie removed as GM during the Chip Kelly years? Then in 2016 regained that title after Kelly messed up that team . Then within 2 years rebuilt that roster and won the Superbowl in 2018. The first Superbowl for that stupid franchise and Roseman delivered it in two years cleaning up a mess that Chip Kelly created. Look I am not against Joe Schoen but I dont have rose colored glasses on either. I do realize he is a rookie ( well not anymore). With that I don't know if he is making the right moves or not because these moves have not yielded results. I am more of a realist than an optimist at this point because Mara has not done a good job of hiring someone to fix this yet since Coughlin left. I have pushed out my projection from 2025 for the Giants to be a consistent playoff team to 2026 as Joe has spent money that he is stuck with now. I am still hoping his decisions work out and when it doesn't he acts quickly to reduce the risk of that bad decision like more experienced GMs. The offensive side of the roster is looking bleak right now. If you want to give him 8 to 10 years to get this correct that's fine. I will have a hard time going past 5 years with out results. That simply means wins.
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Post by ratbastich on Apr 10, 2024 9:40:04 GMT -5
Let’s give JS 8 years to build like Roseman has had and then we’ll have a fairer comparison. My argument isn’t that Roseman is trash, it’s that our standard of good GM/bad GM comes from uneven comparisons between franchises. For the record I think Roseman is a great GM. What I question is when we look at our drafting record and decide it’s not good enough, it’s instructive to look at a good GM and see if they’re missing on picks in a way that is similar to what we complain about. And if I use the two drafts JS has been here and look at Roseman’s picks in the same two drafts, they’re comparable. wasn't Howie removed as GM during the Chip Kelly years? Then in 2016 regained that title after Kelly messed up that team . Then within 2 years rebuilt that roster and won the Superbowl in 2018. The first Superbowl for that stupid franchise and Roseman delivered it in two years cleaning up a mess that Chip Kelly created. Look I am not against Joe Schoen but I dont have rose colored glasses on either. I do realize he is a rookie ( well not anymore). With that I don't know if he is making the right moves or not because these moves have not yielded results. I am more of a realist than an optimist at this point because Mara has not done a good job of hiring someone to fix this yet since Coughlin left. I have pushed out my projection from 2025 for the Giants to be a consistent playoff team to 2026 as Joe has spent money that he is stuck with now. I am still hoping his decisions work out and when it doesn't he acts quickly to reduce the risk of that bad decision like more experienced GMs. The offensive side of the roster is looking bleak right now. If you want to give him 8 to 10 years to get this correct that's fine. I will have a hard time going past 5 years with out results. That simply means wins. To the bolded portion...yes. He was the GM but more of a figurehead. Kelly was given the keys to the car and tried to make Philly into the Oregon Ducks...fast paced offense that wears down the opposing defense. When Kelly (and Shurmur) were jettisoned and Pederson took over, Roseman stepped back in and was back in business making personnel decisions once again. He had a mess to clean up but got them in the Superbowl in Pederson's second season.
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Post by cdngfan on Apr 10, 2024 10:40:00 GMT -5
Let’s give JS 8 years to build like Roseman has had and then we’ll have a fairer comparison. My argument isn’t that Roseman is trash, it’s that our standard of good GM/bad GM comes from uneven comparisons between franchises. For the record I think Roseman is a great GM. What I question is when we look at our drafting record and decide it’s not good enough, it’s instructive to look at a good GM and see if they’re missing on picks in a way that is similar to what we complain about. And if I use the two drafts JS has been here and look at Roseman’s picks in the same two drafts, they’re comparable. wasn't Howie removed as GM during the Chip Kelly years? Then in 2016 regained that title after Kelly messed up that team . Then within 2 years rebuilt that roster and won the Superbowl in 2018. The first Superbowl for that stupid franchise and Roseman delivered it in two years cleaning up a mess that Chip Kelly created. Look I am not against Joe Schoen but I dont have rose colored glasses on either. I do realize he is a rookie ( well not anymore). With that I don't know if he is making the right moves or not because these moves have not yielded results. I am more of a realist than an optimist at this point because Mara has not done a good job of hiring someone to fix this yet since Coughlin left. I have pushed out my projection from 2025 for the Giants to be a consistent playoff team to 2026 as Joe has spent money that he is stuck with now. I am still hoping his decisions work out and when it doesn't he acts quickly to reduce the risk of that bad decision like more experienced GMs. The offensive side of the roster is looking bleak right now. If you want to give him 8 to 10 years to get this correct that's fine. I will have a hard time going past 5 years with out results. That simply means wins. im not advocating JS getting 8-10 years, I’m saying if you’re going to measure him against Roseman’s team then it should be comparing apples to apples, not the accumulation of 8 years of roster manufacturing against 2 years for JS. Roseann did do a good job turning that team around and a championship is a championship, but let’s not overstate how bad Chip was. The roster that Chip handed over when he was fired contributed 8 starters to the Roseman championship roster. And some of those players were acquired by Roseman and handed to chip. The point is “win or get fired” isn’t strategic management. You fire to upgrade or remove an impediment to improvement. The article I highlighted a month ago was instructive. It’s tracking the performance of the GMs we didn’t hire that were interviewed. This is never discussed enough. You shouldn’t be firing someone simply based on record. It should be a big part of it. But just as big should be an supportered theory of who’s better. If you just changing the seat because that’s what you do then I think that’s one of a few reasons why we’ve sucked for so long. We’re just going through the motions in the GM role.
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Post by Nick6475 on Apr 10, 2024 10:54:10 GMT -5
wasn't Howie removed as GM during the Chip Kelly years? Then in 2016 regained that title after Kelly messed up that team . Then within 2 years rebuilt that roster and won the Superbowl in 2018. The first Superbowl for that stupid franchise and Roseman delivered it in two years cleaning up a mess that Chip Kelly created. Look I am not against Joe Schoen but I dont have rose colored glasses on either. I do realize he is a rookie ( well not anymore). With that I don't know if he is making the right moves or not because these moves have not yielded results. I am more of a realist than an optimist at this point because Mara has not done a good job of hiring someone to fix this yet since Coughlin left. I have pushed out my projection from 2025 for the Giants to be a consistent playoff team to 2026 as Joe has spent money that he is stuck with now. I am still hoping his decisions work out and when it doesn't he acts quickly to reduce the risk of that bad decision like more experienced GMs. The offensive side of the roster is looking bleak right now. If you want to give him 8 to 10 years to get this correct that's fine. I will have a hard time going past 5 years with out results. That simply means wins. im not advocating JS getting 8-10 years, I’m saying if you’re going to measure him against Roseman’s team then it should be comparing apples to apples, not the accumulation of 8 years of roster manufacturing against 2 years for JS. Roseann did do a good job turning that team around and a championship is a championship, but let’s not overstate how bad Chip was. The roster that Chip handed over when he was fired contributed 8 starters to the Roseman championship roster. And some of those players were acquired by Roseman and handed to chip. The point is “win or get fired” isn’t strategic management. You fire to upgrade or remove an impediment to improvement. The article I highlighted a month ago was instructive. It’s tracking the performance of the GMs we didn’t hire that were interviewed. This is never discussed enough. You shouldn’t be firing someone simply based on record. It should be a big part of it. But just as big should be an supportered theory of who’s better. If you just changing the seat because that’s what you do then I think that’s one of a few reasons why we’ve sucked for so long. We’re just going through the motions in the GM role. So we need to be tracking the path of these guys. Adam Peters - Commanders GM Ryan Poles - Bears GM Ran Carthon - Titans GM Joe Hortiz - Chargers GM Monti Ossenfort - Cardinals GM
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Post by cdngfan on Apr 10, 2024 11:44:01 GMT -5
im not advocating JS getting 8-10 years, I’m saying if you’re going to measure him against Roseman’s team then it should be comparing apples to apples, not the accumulation of 8 years of roster manufacturing against 2 years for JS. Roseann did do a good job turning that team around and a championship is a championship, but let’s not overstate how bad Chip was. The roster that Chip handed over when he was fired contributed 8 starters to the Roseman championship roster. And some of those players were acquired by Roseman and handed to chip. The point is “win or get fired” isn’t strategic management. You fire to upgrade or remove an impediment to improvement. The article I highlighted a month ago was instructive. It’s tracking the performance of the GMs we didn’t hire that were interviewed. This is never discussed enough. You shouldn’t be firing someone simply based on record. It should be a big part of it. But just as big should be an supportered theory of who’s better. If you just changing the seat because that’s what you do then I think that’s one of a few reasons why we’ve sucked for so long. We’re just going through the motions in the GM role. So we need to be tracking the path of these guys. Adam Peters - Commanders GM Ryan Poles - Bears GM Ran Carthon - Titans GM Joe Hortiz - Chargers GM Monti Ossenfort - Cardinals GM Exactly. What did they inherit, and how have they done since getting the gig? We didn’t have a choice of a great GM. It’s those guys or the one we have. And if you’re advising Mara you’re looking for his replacement today. Not because you’re planning on replacing him, but because if you don’t have a good thesis of who can be better than him, then you don’t fire him. The NFL does a real shitty job of developing QBs, HCs, and GMs. And they’ve been managing the development of this positions the same way for years with the same results. The PAckers seem to be the team that is figuring out you don’t have to start a rookie QB right away, and they seem to be the one team that has no trouble maintaining competence at the QB position. Someone ia going to figure out the same thing for HCs and GMs.
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Merlin
Special Teams
Posts: 353
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Post by Merlin on Apr 10, 2024 11:56:29 GMT -5
Had his choice choice of Debo, AJ Brown, DJ Metcalf with that Baker pick as well. Trading Odell and not providing the QB you just drafted with the top 6 pick a potential #1 with the amount of talent available. I will never understand.
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Post by Nick6475 on Apr 10, 2024 12:42:43 GMT -5
So we need to be tracking the path of these guys. Adam Peters - Commanders GM Ryan Poles - Bears GM Ran Carthon - Titans GM Joe Hortiz - Chargers GM Monti Ossenfort - Cardinals GM Exactly. What did they inherit, and how have they done since getting the gig? We didn’t have a choice of a great GM. It’s those guys or the one we have. And if you’re advising Mara you’re looking for his replacement today. Not because you’re planning on replacing him, but because if you don’t have a good thesis of who can be better than him, then you don’t fire him. The NFL does a real shitty job of developing QBs, HCs, and GMs. And they’ve been managing the development of this positions the same way for years with the same results. The PAckers seem to be the team that is figuring out you don’t have to start a rookie QB right away, and they seem to be the one team that has no trouble maintaining competence at the QB position. Someone ia going to figure out the same thing for HCs and GMs. I don't think the Packers figured out sitting a QB is better, they have just been fortunate to have high quality QBs so they had the luxury to not start Rodgers and Love right away. Same with KC and Alex Smith/Mahomes. Most teams that are bad and need a new QB don't have that luxury. If the Giants draft a QB in the first round, the Giants may give Jones/Lock the first start(s), but as soon as they look bad or the team isn't winning, that QB is playing.
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Post by shocknaweny on Apr 13, 2024 9:14:38 GMT -5
Just have a GM that answers the god damn phone that's all I ask
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