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Post by DonnieYen on Oct 22, 2018 23:02:12 GMT -5
how do you guys not understand what I am saying, IF WE KICK THAT FIELD GOAL INSTEAD OF MISS THE TWO POINTER THEN WHEN ELI SCORES WITH 5 SECONDS LEFT WE TIE THE GAME UP AT 23, ergo we tie it up and go for overtime. am I doing my math right? or am I wrong? I will admit I am bad at math. Kick the FG instead of a failed 2 pt conversion? You mean kick the PAT? It was 20-12. Kick the PAT, makes is 20-13. ATL goes and kicks a FG. 23-13. Giants score with 5 seconds to go: 23-20. Not 23-23. Yea I meant PAT also can be called extra point but lets not quibble here my friend You really cant assume if we went for the PAT or Extra point that Atlanta would have driven down the field and gotten the field goal, you familiar with Chaos Theory?
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Post by Roosevelt on Oct 22, 2018 23:02:21 GMT -5
Here's a thought and you can kill me if you want...Eli made some good throws and missed some obviously but if our friggin OL could at least run block we wouldn't be so one dimensional and would have scored on the goal line instead of turning it over on downs...yes I' m putting more of the blame on the OL!
KILL HIM!!!
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Post by Roosevelt on Oct 22, 2018 23:03:35 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2018 23:03:39 GMT -5
Your math is off. It would have been 21 not 23. ok so if we kick the extra point that's 1 point there plus the two point conversion there is three points right there so your total with the TD and 2 Point Conversion plus the extra point after the TD in that last drive that Shurmur blundered and your score would be 23-23 with 5 seconds left am I wrong? if I am if someone wants to walk me through it I am all ears so to speak? At the very least IF we kick that extra point may be Atlanta doesn't kick that field goal you cant assume that? Dude the 2 point conversion after the 2nd TD is already accounted for in the final score. if we had gone for the extra point fg instead of a failed 2 point converstion, it is 20-13. atlant only needs a fg to make it a 2 score game you think they wouldn't have kicked a fg? They would have and made it 23-13. When we got the ball back it was 23-12. One point difference from your scenario. we scored the TD and completed the 2 point converstion to make it 23-20. The 3 points we lost on turnover on downs, complain about that. Or eli not throwing to odell on that series, he could have gotten a TD and we win the game. Good thing we didn't cause then we would have lost draft position.
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Post by DonnieYen on Oct 22, 2018 23:07:43 GMT -5
ok so if we kick the extra point that's 1 point there plus the two point conversion there is three points right there so your total with the TD and 2 Point Conversion plus the extra point after the TD in that last drive that Shurmur blundered and your score would be 23-23 with 5 seconds left am I wrong? huh wha? Let me see if I follow. We scored a TD to make it 20-12 ok so if we kick the extra point that's 1 point there20-13 plus the two point conversion thereYou can only go for 1 pt or 2 pts after a TD. 20-13 so your total with the TD and 2 Point Conversion plus the extra point after the TD in that last driveSo you want to add the 2 pt conversion to the first TD... okay, take away the extra point and add the two point conversion: 20-14 Then ATL scores a FG: 23-14 Then according to your last sentence above we score a TD and add an extra point in the last drive (with 5 seconds left): 23-21 Does that help? No your right I was wrong my bad I was just pointing out one event changes in the game like the extra point after the TD may be Atlanta doesn't score the field goal you cant assume that may be being down 7 points changes momentum in the game may be Atlanta fumbles it on the kick off we recover the ball and score who knows you never know really.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2018 23:08:30 GMT -5
Here's a thought and you can kill me if you want...Eli made some good throws and missed some obviously but if our friggin OL could at least run block we wouldn't be so one dimensional and would have scored on the goal line instead of turning it over on downs...yes I' m putting more of the blame on the OL! KILL HIM!!!
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Post by EliQB10 on Oct 22, 2018 23:09:15 GMT -5
LOL..offensive lines are usually good at one or the other but ours suck at both pass protection and run blocking...anyway this team sucks...end of the Eli era next year and more sucking as we rebuild....
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2018 23:10:02 GMT -5
huh wha? Let me see if I follow. We scored a TD to make it 20-12 ok so if we kick the extra point that's 1 point there20-13 plus the two point conversion thereYou can only go for 1 pt or 2 pts after a TD. 20-13 so your total with the TD and 2 Point Conversion plus the extra point after the TD in that last driveSo you want to add the 2 pt conversion to the first TD... okay, take away the extra point and add the two point conversion: 20-14 Then ATL scores a FG: 23-14 Then according to your last sentence above we score a TD and add an extra point in the last drive (with 5 seconds left): 23-21 Does that help? No your right I was wrong my bad I was just pointing out one event changes in the game like the extra point after the TD may be Atlanta doesn't score the field goal you cant assume that may be being down 7 points changes momentum in the game may be Atlanta fumbles it on the kick off we recover the ball and score who knows you never know really. Sure. And maybe the power goes out thus cancelling the game and the NFL decides to call it a no contest or draw.
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desertash
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Post by desertash on Oct 22, 2018 23:10:30 GMT -5
Your math is off. It would have been 21 not 23. ok so if we kick the extra point that's 1 point there plus the two point conversion there is three points right there so your total with the TD and 2 Point Conversion plus the extra point after the TD in that last drive that Shurmur blundered and your score would be 23-23 with 5 seconds left am I wrong? if I am if someone wants to walk me through it I am all ears so to speak? At the very least IF we kick that extra point may be Atlanta doesn't kick that field goal you cant assume that? uhmm...bro don't bogart
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Post by krappdetector on Oct 22, 2018 23:15:10 GMT -5
Kick the FG instead of a failed 2 pt conversion? You mean kick the PAT? It was 20-12. Kick the PAT, makes is 20-13. ATL goes and kicks a FG. 23-13. Giants score with 5 seconds to go: 23-20. Not 23-23. Yea I meant PAT also can be called extra point but lets not quibble here my friend You really cant assume if we went for the PAT or Extra point that Atlanta would have driven down the field and gotten the field goal, you familiar with Chaos Theory? You familiar with probability theory? Or Magical Thinking'?
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Post by krappdetector on Oct 22, 2018 23:22:38 GMT -5
huh wha? Let me see if I follow. We scored a TD to make it 20-12 ok so if we kick the extra point that's 1 point there20-13 plus the two point conversion thereYou can only go for 1 pt or 2 pts after a TD. 20-13 so your total with the TD and 2 Point Conversion plus the extra point after the TD in that last driveSo you want to add the 2 pt conversion to the first TD... okay, take away the extra point and add the two point conversion: 20-14 Then ATL scores a FG: 23-14 Then according to your last sentence above we score a TD and add an extra point in the last drive (with 5 seconds left): 23-21 Does that help? No your right I was wrong my bad I was just pointing out one event changes in the game like the extra point after the TD may be Atlanta doesn't score the field goal you cant assume that may be being down 7 points changes momentum in the game may be Atlanta fumbles it on the kick off we recover the ball and score who knows you never know really. Donnie, you are trying to argue which points lost the game when the reality is they all did. We mainly needed MORE points SOONER.
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Post by DonnieYen on Oct 22, 2018 23:32:02 GMT -5
No your right I was wrong my bad I was just pointing out one event changes in the game like the extra point after the TD may be Atlanta doesn't score the field goal you cant assume that may be being down 7 points changes momentum in the game may be Atlanta fumbles it on the kick off we recover the ball and score who knows you never know really. Donnie, you are trying to argue which points lost the game when the reality is they all did. We mainly needed MORE points SOONER. Your probably right. So when do you guys think we hear rumblings of Lauletta starting a game? I would have started Lauletta in the beginning of the second half.
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Post by DonnieYen on Oct 22, 2018 23:33:23 GMT -5
I also think may be one more loss we should think of Trading or cutting Eli.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 1:50:57 GMT -5
Donnie, you are trying to argue which points lost the game when the reality is they all did. We mainly needed MORE points SOONER. Your probably right. So when do you guys think we hear rumblings of Lauletta starting a game? I would have started Lauletta in the beginning of the second half. He should be prepared to be the starter during the bye week for the SF game. We don't want him getting his first action on a short week against a divisional rival. Plus this will give Eli two weeks to wipe the tears and snot bubbles away and let it die in the media. This also doesn't stir up the Knights who will scream, "ZOMFG! He just threw for 400 yards and you want to bench him?!"
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 1:51:51 GMT -5
I also think may be one more loss we should think of Trading or cutting Eli. No one is trading for Eli. He's one of the worst QBs in the league with a hefty cap hit. Nor are we releasing him midseason.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 7:28:18 GMT -5
I also think may be one more loss we should think of Trading or cutting Eli. OK Donnie, I'm gonna help you out. I knew what you meant earlier when I was the first to call out regarding your math. Nothing against you buddy just wanted to see how many would take the opportunity to use someone else's work and use it to prove someone wrong. I know you were trying to explain Shurmur's reasoning. Go for 2, convert we are down 20-14 and if we can hold Atlanta there and score again we win 21-20 and if we don't convert the 2 points we would go for 2 again and try to get that points back. It was a sound plan but he was hoping that the defense could hold Ryan and the falcons on their final series without a fg. Almost happened too. Freaking 57 yarder.
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Post by EliQB10 on Oct 23, 2018 7:50:26 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 8:35:53 GMT -5
From ESPN’s analytics guy:
The math backs up Pat Shurmur's decision to go for two down eight points with less than five minutes to go. Going for it then gives Shurmur an informational advantage. If the Giants convert, then on their next touchdown they know they only need to kick a PAT to take the lead (assuming no other scores). If they fail, which they did, they have an opportunity to go for it again to tie. The long and short of it: converting once is much more likely than failing twice.
Seth Walder, ESPN Analytics
Or here’s an idea Seth: play for 20-20 and see what happens in OT.
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Post by boxcarwillie on Oct 23, 2018 11:02:14 GMT -5
Basically GOING FOR IT ON FIRST TD: make it - cuts lead to 6 points, puts alot of pressure on ATL offense (and defense) miss it - still a chance for OT with 2pt on second TD KICKING 1 PT ON FIRST TD: ATL will feel more relaxed, feeling assured of at least getting to OT. Basically, The conservative way of kicking on both would enhance our chance of getting to OT Shurmur's way enhances our chance of winning in regulation, without completely destroying our chance to force OT. It was a calculated risk, not an act of mindless buffoonery. I don't buy that. I don't buy the fact that ATL is more relaxed or more pressured under one scenario or the other. If Murmur is calling plays based on his guess if ATL is going to play more loose or tight based on the outcome, then he needs to be hung by his testicles until they turn black, shrivel up and fall off. Ok, maybe that's extreme but his coaching should be heavily scrutinized. I admit that my explanation is not air tight and indisputable.
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Post by DonnieYen on Oct 23, 2018 16:14:22 GMT -5
I also think may be one more loss we should think of Trading or cutting Eli. OK Donnie, I'm gonna help you out. I knew what you meant earlier when I was the first to call out regarding your math. Nothing against you buddy just wanted to see how many would take the opportunity to use someone else's work and use it to prove someone wrong. I know you were trying to explain Shurmur's reasoning. Go for 2, convert we are down 20-14 and if we can hold Atlanta there and score again we win 21-20 and if we don't convert the 2 points we would go for 2 again and try to get that points back. It was a sound plan but he was hoping that the defense could hold Ryan and the falcons on their final series without a fg. Almost happened too. Freaking 57 yarder. I agree with what you said in this post I realize Eli is on his last leg I was just trying to point out problems with Shurmurs strategy and some not so bad things about Eli's game. and I take no offense to the comment about my math I am the first to admit it I am more of a science and history guy math is not my forte.
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