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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 9:17:27 GMT -5
The draft QB with the 2nd pick crowd is under the impression that if any 1 of the 4 QB become franchise QB, then the Giants made a HUGE mistake. Completely flawed logic.
#1- Baker Mayfield was selected first so that leaves us with selecting 1 of 3 QB. So if one of the 3 remaining QB becomes legit franchise QB, that gives us just a 33% chance of selecting the correct one. That's a ridiculously low percentage to take a chance on with the #2 pick with a potential all pro RB sitting right there for the taking. Now if all 3 remaining QB become all pro caliber then you can actually argue the Giants may have swung and foul tipped on this pick.
Lets say Rosen becomes the best of the bunch and it's not even close. Does this mean the Giants missed out on him more than the Jets, Browns and Buffalo? Not even close. These teams will be kicking themselves in the head for selecting the inferior QB. If Barkley becomes all pro, then it really didn't hurt the Giants at all.
Most of the draft QB crowd wanted any of the 4 QB over Barkley. But DG wanted the sure thing with the pick instead and not the shiny object.
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Post by Morehead State on Jun 6, 2018 9:31:20 GMT -5
Great NFL QB's can be effective for 15 years plus. great NFL RB's can be effective for 5 or so years.
NFL QB's have the biggest impact on their team than any position in any sport. RB's are about near the bottom of the list of positions of impact.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 9:34:09 GMT -5
Great NFL QB's can be effective for 15 years plus. great NFL RB's can be effective for 5 or so years. NFL QB's have the biggest impact on their team than any position in any sport. RB's are about near the bottom of the list of positions of impact.
I still wouldn't gamble on a QB with a 33% chance if only one of them pans out. That will set the franchise back for several years.
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Post by Delicreep on Jun 6, 2018 10:11:10 GMT -5
The draft QB with the 2nd pick crowd is under the impression that if any 1 of the 4 QB become franchise QB, then the Giants made a HUGE mistake. Completely flawed logic. #1- Baker Mayfield was selected first so that leaves us with selecting 1 of 3 QB. So if one of the 3 remaining QB becomes legit franchise QB, that gives us just a 33% chance of selecting the correct one. That's a ridiculously low percentage to take a chance on with the #2 pick with a potential all pro RB sitting right there for the taking. Now if all 3 remaining QB become all pro caliber then you can actually argue the Giants may have swung and foul tipped on this pick. Lets say Rosen becomes the best of the bunch and it's not even close. Does this mean the Giants missed out on him more than the Jets, Browns and Buffalo? Not even close. These teams will be kicking themselves in the head for selecting the inferior QB. If Barkley becomes all pro, then it really didn't hurt the Giants at all. Most of the draft QB crowd wanted any of the 4 QB over Barkley. But DG wanted the sure thing with the pick instead and not the shiny object. It's a field bet. So long as any QB not names Mayfield pans out, they win. Doesn't matter if they spent the time pre draft saying he would suck, they still win. And you can count on every one of them coming to collect. BTW, the math is really Barkley + Webb/Laulleta = QB X |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 10:16:22 GMT -5
The draft QB with the 2nd pick crowd is under the impression that if any 1 of the 4 QB become franchise QB, then the Giants made a HUGE mistake. Completely flawed logic. #1- Baker Mayfield was selected first so that leaves us with selecting 1 of 3 QB. So if one of the 3 remaining QB becomes legit franchise QB, that gives us just a 33% chance of selecting the correct one. That's a ridiculously low percentage to take a chance on with the #2 pick with a potential all pro RB sitting right there for the taking. Now if all 3 remaining QB become all pro caliber then you can actually argue the Giants may have swung and foul tipped on this pick. Lets say Rosen becomes the best of the bunch and it's not even close. Does this mean the Giants missed out on him more than the Jets, Browns and Buffalo? Not even close. These teams will be kicking themselves in the head for selecting the inferior QB. If Barkley becomes all pro, then it really didn't hurt the Giants at all. Most of the draft QB crowd wanted any of the 4 QB over Barkley. But DG wanted the sure thing with the pick instead and not the shiny object. It's a field bet. So long as any QB not names Mayfield pans out, they win. Doesn't matter if they spent the time pre draft saying he would suck, they still win. And you can count on every one of them coming to collect. BTW, the math is really Barkley + Webb/Laulleta = QB X Oh for sure. Week 4 Samchez has a good game and people will say how we screwed up. Week 5 Rosen lights it up and Samchez throws 3 INT, we still screwed up the pick by not going Rosen. |
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Post by Delicreep on Jun 6, 2018 10:38:08 GMT -5
It's a field bet. So long as any QB not names Mayfield pans out, they win. Doesn't matter if they spent the time pre draft saying he would suck, they still win. And you can count on every one of them coming to collect. BTW, the math is really Barkley + Webb/Laulleta = QB X Oh for sure. Week 4 Samchez has a good game and people will say how we screwed up. Week 5 Rosen lights it up and Samchez throws 3 INT, we still screwed up the pick by not going Rosen. I would be much happier if the picked a horse and ran with it...like DG would have to do, but it is what it is. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 11:06:38 GMT -5
The biggest flaw in all of this is not starting Webb in week 9 (and beyond) of last year. It caused the team to go into the draft with a considerable unknown factor which could have greatly affected the philosophy.
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Merc
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Post by Merc on Jun 6, 2018 15:58:49 GMT -5
The biggest flaw in all of this is not starting Webb in week 9 (and beyond) of last year. It caused the team to go into the draft with a considerable unknown factor which could have greatly affected the philosophy. The team knows what they have in Webb more than the QBs in this draft. You don't really know until a backup actually plays a whole game. Even then it takes a while for acclimation to the regular season. The coaches have had a lot of experience and success working with QBs. |
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Post by Speedman on Jun 6, 2018 16:05:20 GMT -5
Great NFL QB's can be effective for 15 years plus. great NFL RB's can be effective for 5 or so years. NFL QB's have the biggest impact on their team than any position in any sport. RB's are about near the bottom of the list of positions of impact. Which QB coming out of this draft do you think is going to be great? Remember they could only have picked one of them. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 16:05:23 GMT -5
It's a field bet. So long as any QB not names Mayfield pans out, they win. Doesn't matter if they spent the time pre draft saying he would suck, they still win. And you can count on every one of them coming to collect. BTW, the math is really Barkley + Webb/Laulleta = QB X Oh for sure. Week 4 Samchez has a good game and people will say how we screwed up. Week 5 Rosen lights it up and Samchez throws 3 INT, we still screwed up the pick by not going Rosen. Who is Samchez? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 16:06:07 GMT -5
Great NFL QB's can be effective for 15 years plus. great NFL RB's can be effective for 5 or so years. NFL QB's have the biggest impact on their team than any position in any sport. RB's are about near the bottom of the list of positions of impact. Which QB coming out of this draft do you think is going to be great? Remember they could only have picked one of them. Josh Allen. |
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Post by Speedman on Jun 6, 2018 16:09:02 GMT -5
Which QB coming out of this draft do you think is going to be great? Remember they could only have picked one of them. Josh Allen. I think Allen has potential. Only time will determine if he reaches it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 16:14:54 GMT -5
The biggest flaw in all of this is not starting Webb in week 9 (and beyond) of last year. It caused the team to go into the draft with a considerable unknown factor which could have greatly affected the philosophy. The team knows what they have in Webb more than the QBs in this draft. You don't really know until a backup actually plays a whole game. Even then it takes a while for acclimation to the regular season. The coaches have had a lot of experience and success working with QBs. I'm not so sure how Gettleman, Shurmur, et al knew what they had in Webb going into the draft. "You don't really know until a backup actually plays a whole game. Even then it takes a while for acclimation to the regular season" Exactly my point. He could have had 8 games of experience under his belt. Which would have given the new regime significant film to study and shape their philosophy. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 16:15:51 GMT -5
Oh for sure. Week 4 Samchez has a good game and people will say how we screwed up. Week 5 Rosen lights it up and Samchez throws 3 INT, we still screwed up the pick by not going Rosen. Who is Samchez? I assuming it's a nifty play on "Sam" Darnold and Mark "Sanchez." You know, because they were both drafted by the jets. |
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Post by devilsadvocate on Jun 6, 2018 16:22:54 GMT -5
However your logic fails initially with the assumption that Barkley is a 100% chance of a great success. There are several other great RBs that could have been taken in the draft that may provide 80-90% of the production of Barkley (assuming he is a home run) and you've missed out on an Eli replacement.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 16:32:24 GMT -5
I think Allen has potential. Only time will determine if he reaches it. What Allen has even more of than potential is a major chip on his shoulder. Kid has been told at every turn that he isn't good enough. And at every turn he's told them where they can stick it. That's the kind of drive that makes champions. Oh, yeah, and...he has a cannon for an arm  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 16:35:47 GMT -5
I assuming it's a nifty play on "Sam" Darnold and Mark "Sanchez." You know, because they were both drafted by the jets. Ohhh...man, that's witty! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 17:12:11 GMT -5
However your logic fails initially with the assumption that Barkley is a 100% chance of a great success. There are several other great RBs that could have been taken in the draft that may provide 80-90% of the production of Barkley (assuming he is a home run) and you've missed out on an Eli replacement. Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! I don't get how more people don't understand this. |
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Post by Speedman on Jun 6, 2018 17:19:06 GMT -5
I think Allen has potential. Only time will determine if he reaches it. What Allen has even more of than potential is a major chip on his shoulder. Kid has been told at every turn that he isn't good enough. And at every turn he's told them where they can stick it. That's the kind of drive that makes champions. Oh, yeah, and...he has a cannon for an arm  Lots of QB’s had a cannon for an arm, but it doesn’t necessarily make them a good QB. Only time will tell if Allen has all of the tools that are needed to be successful. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 17:23:18 GMT -5
However your logic fails initially with the assumption that Barkley is a 100% chance of a great success. There are several other great RBs that could have been taken in the draft that may provide 80-90% of the production of Barkley (assuming he is a home run) and you've missed out on an Eli replacement. forget about Barkley for a second and I did say “potential all pro.” And this 80-90% of Barkley is another flawed logic to use when evaluating talent but that’s up for another discussion. Even if Barkley busts, you move on and replace him or cut his carries. What do you do with a QB? You keep trotting him out there until you hope he figures it out. The point is, it could’ve been Chubb at 2 and the scenerio still applied. Just look at the names being thrown around at who we should’ve selected. Some want Rosen, some wanted Samchez, one guy still wakes up every morning hoping it was all a nightmare and the Giants actually drafted Allen. You really think it’s a good idea to spend the #2 pick on a gamble? |
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Post by Fletch842 on Jun 6, 2018 17:28:12 GMT -5
As long as Barkley is a success, who cares how the QB's do. There can be reasonable scenarios where one or more of the QB's turn into franchise guys, and Barkley becomes a great back and helps us to SB Win #5!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 17:44:50 GMT -5
However your logic fails initially with the assumption that Barkley is a 100% chance of a great success. There are several other great RBs that could have been taken in the draft that may provide 80-90% of the production of Barkley (assuming he is a home run) and you've missed out on an Eli replacement. Even if Barkley busts, you move on and replace him or cut his carries. What do you do with a QB? You keep trotting him out there until you hope he figures it out. How long was JaMarcus Russell the Raiders' starting quarterback? A year and a half? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 17:50:51 GMT -5
As long as Barkley is a success, who cares how the QB's do. There can be reasonable scenarios where one or more of the QB's turn into franchise guys, and Barkley becomes a great back and helps us to SB Win #5!! I guess you could say Sam Bowie was a success (he played for 12 seasons and made the NBA All-Rookie First Team in 1985). Still, I'd imagine the Trail Blazers wish they had taken Michael Jordan instead. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 18:27:19 GMT -5
As long as Barkley is a success, who cares how the QB's do. There can be reasonable scenarios where one or more of the QB's turn into franchise guys, and Barkley becomes a great back and helps us to SB Win #5!! Defining "success/successful" gets very subjective in these types of discussions. Out of curiosity what's your take on what it would take for Barkley to be successful and/or a success? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 18:36:17 GMT -5
Even if Barkley busts, you move on and replace him or cut his carries. What do you do with a QB? You keep trotting him out there until you hope he figures it out. How long was JaMarcus Russell the Raiders' starting quarterback? A year and a half? yeah Josh Allen is the next MJ in football. |
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Post by Jaydub on Jun 6, 2018 18:48:43 GMT -5
However your logic fails initially with the assumption that Barkley is a 100% chance of a great success. There are several other great RBs that could have been taken in the draft that may provide 80-90% of the production of Barkley (assuming he is a home run) and you've missed out on an Eli replacement. You beat me to the punch. Depending on whom you ask, Barkley is already headed to the HOF before ever taking an NFL field in a real game. He could be a major bust, so no one is in a position to say that anyone else is definitely wrong about not taking a QB |
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Jun 6, 2018 19:02:44 GMT -5
I simply don't understand the argument of the draft choice one way or the other at this point. What's done is done.
Shouldn't we, as Giants fans, hope Barkley turns out to be great, and hope that Webb has the potential to be Eli's successor? Because THAT's the situation we are in now.
I don't really see the point in hoping one of those 4 QB's the Giants passed on turns into the next Brady just so some posters can say in 5-10 years I told you so.
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Post by TCHOF on Jun 6, 2018 19:47:12 GMT -5
The draft QB with the 2nd pick crowd is under the impression that if any 1 of the 4 QB become franchise QB, then the Giants made a HUGE mistake. Completely flawed logic. #1- Baker Mayfield was selected first so that leaves us with selecting 1 of 3 QB. So if one of the 3 remaining QB becomes legit franchise QB, that gives us just a 33% chance of selecting the correct one. That's a ridiculously low percentage to take a chance on with the #2 pick with a potential all pro RB sitting right there for the taking. Now if all 3 remaining QB become all pro caliber then you can actually argue the Giants may have swung and foul tipped on this pick. Lets say Rosen becomes the best of the bunch and it's not even close. Does this mean the Giants missed out on him more than the Jets, Browns and Buffalo? Not even close. These teams will be kicking themselves in the head for selecting the inferior QB. If Barkley becomes all pro, then it really didn't hurt the Giants at all. Most of the draft QB crowd wanted any of the 4 QB over Barkley. But DG wanted the sure thing with the pick instead and not the shiny object. This logic makes no sense |
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Post by TCHOF on Jun 6, 2018 19:48:09 GMT -5
I simply don't understand the argument of the draft choice one way or the other at this point. What's done is done. Shouldn't we, as Giants fans, hope Barkley turns out to be great, and hope that Webb has the potential to be Eli's successor? Because THAT's the situation we are in now. I don't really see the point in hoping one of those 4 QB's the Giants passed on turns into the next Brady just so some posters can say in 5-10 years I told you so. I agree with this |
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Post by nick030567 on Jun 6, 2018 20:17:23 GMT -5
The team knows what they have in Webb more than the QBs in this draft. You don't really know until a backup actually plays a whole game. Even then it takes a while for acclimation to the regular season. The coaches have had a lot of experience and success working with QBs. I'm not so sure how Gettleman, Shurmur, et al knew what they had in Webb going into the draft. "You don't really know until a backup actually plays a whole game. Even then it takes a while for acclimation to the regular season" Exactly my point. He could have had 8 games of experience under his belt. Which would have given the new regime significant film to study and shape their philosophy. Well they have just as much college film on him as they do the others who were drafted this year. Webb's film looks just as good if not better than any of them. Plus they have a little bit of preseason film on him from last summer as well. I know what you're saying but it's relatively the same scenario.
People really let the media get them all hyped up for the latest group of QB's (not saying you, I just mean generally speaking). They have to so people keep tuning into their programming for draft coverage. If they just said "overall this group of QB's just isn't that great, it looks like they'll all turn out to be busts aside from maybe one of them" it would lose interest for many people at a time when very little is going on in football related media; the talking heads just need something to talk about and a lot of fans are hoping their team can get one of those nice shiny new top QB prospects. The medias job is to create the perception that almost every draft class is 2004 all over again, especially as guys such as Eli are going to retire within the next 3-5 years and they are the faces of the NFL and will go down as legends.
It's understandable but the majority of them turn out to be a Mark Sanchez or worse. If one of those QB's from this past draft class turns into a 10-15 year franchise QB then that's great for the entertainment of those fans but it really won't make me feel any different on how the Giants drafted this off-season.
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