r2z2
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Post by r2z2 on Feb 19, 2019 20:42:14 GMT -5
Who was better the 1986 Giants or the 85 Bears and why ?
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Feb 19, 2019 20:49:39 GMT -5
86 Giants. Because.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Feb 19, 2019 21:01:25 GMT -5
The honest answer is the 85' Bears. Just because that defense was arguably the very best ever. I remember that 85' playoff game between the Giants and Bears. Landetta missing that punt. Whew !
Though you know where my heart is.
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 19, 2019 21:04:40 GMT -5
86 Giants had a much better offense by the time Dec came around once they went 12 formation 75% of the time with Mowatt and Bavaro Teams had no answer for 2 athletic matchup nightmare matchups out of the TE spot that were literally extra O linemen in the running game That opened up huge space for Morris to gash once he broke the line of scrimmage We were absolutely blowing people.out in Dec(in think 2 of our last 4 games we had well over 40 points,I even think 50 once. Where the Bears had a great RB and a blow the top off the defense WR in Gault,they won basicly on defense,field position,forcing teams into mistakes and not making any themselves.Problem was when they faced a team with a very good defense that didnt make mistakes,like Washington did on their home field in the divisional round. Plus Simms >McMahon
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Post by Morehead State on Feb 19, 2019 21:07:45 GMT -5
The honest answer is the 85' Bears. Just because that defense was arguably the very best ever. I remember that 85' playoff game between the Giants and Bears. Landetta missing that punt. Whew ! Though you know where my heart is. The Bears outscored their opponents in the two NFC playoff games 45-0. Then 46-10 in the SB. 91-10. The Giants outscored their opponents in the two NFC playoff games 66-3. Then 39-19 in the SB. 105-22
Geez those were two dominant teams. Bears were 15-1. Giants were 14-2.
I truly believe that the 86 Giants would have beaten the 85 Bears on a neutral field but that's me. Of course I'm a Giants fan.
In other words.....Who knows who was better. They were both all time great championship teams.
BTW...Those numbers were strictly from memory. Not sure if they are exactly correct.
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r2z2
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Post by r2z2 on Feb 19, 2019 21:31:22 GMT -5
86 Giants had a much better offense by the time Dec came around once they went 12 formation 75% of the time with Mowatt and Bavaro Teams had no answer for 2 athletic matchup nightmare matchups out of the TE spot that were literally extra O linemen in the running game That opened up huge space for Morris to gash once he broke the line of scrimmage We were absolutely blowing people.out in Dec(in think 2 of our last 4 games we had well over 40 points,I even think 50 once. Where the Bears had a great RB and a blow the top off the defense WR in Gault,they won basicly on defense,field position,forcing teams into mistakes and not making any themselves.Problem was when they faced a team with a very good defense that didnt make mistakes,like Washington did on their home field in the divisional round. Plus Simms >McMahon They scored 55 against Green Bay in the season finale and had a more impressive run in the playoffs imo.
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r2z2
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Posts: 4,706
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Post by r2z2 on Feb 19, 2019 21:33:16 GMT -5
The honest answer is the 85' Bears. Just because that defense was arguably the very best ever. I remember that 85' playoff game between the Giants and Bears. Landetta missing that punt. Whew ! Though you know where my heart is. The Bears outscored their opponents in the two NFC playoff games 45-0. Then 46-10 in the SB. 91-10. The Giants outscored their opponents in the two NFC playoff games 66-3. Then 39-19 in the SB. 105-22
Geez those were two dominant teams. Bears were 15-1. Giants were 14-2.
I truly believe that the 86 Giants would have beaten the 85 Bears on a neutral field but that's me. Of course I'm a Giants fan.
In other words.....Who knows who was better. They were both all time great championship teams.
BTW...Those numbers were strictly from memory. Not sure if they are exactly correct.
Montana and Walsh, Gibbs and the Hogs and Elway in the super Bowl. The Giants manhandled some very good teams and coaches.
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Post by Roosevelt on Feb 19, 2019 21:37:23 GMT -5
86 Giants had a much better offense by the time Dec came around once they went 12 formation 75% of the time with Mowatt and Bavaro Teams had no answer for 2 athletic matchup nightmare matchups out of the TE spot that were literally extra O linemen in the running game That opened up huge space for Morris to gash once he broke the line of scrimmage We were absolutely blowing people.out in Dec(in think 2 of our last 4 games we had well over 40 points,I even think 50 once. Where the Bears had a great RB and a blow the top off the defense WR in Gault,they won basicly on defense,field position,forcing teams into mistakes and not making any themselves.Problem was when they faced a team with a very good defense that didnt make mistakes,like Washington did on their home field in the divisional round. Plus Simms >McMahon They scored 55 against Green Bay in the season finale and had a more impressive run in the playoffs imo. I remember Green Bay was not happy about us running up the score.
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Post by Roosevelt on Feb 19, 2019 21:41:35 GMT -5
The honest answer is the 85' Bears. Just because that defense was arguably the very best ever. I remember that 85' playoff game between the Giants and Bears. Landetta missing that punt. Whew ! Though you know where my heart is.
I would have liked to see the 86 team revenge the loss the year prior, but that's not my problem.
The fact is the Giants remained much more relevant in terms of contending than the Bears in the years that followed.
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Feb 19, 2019 21:45:50 GMT -5
The honest answer is the 85' Bears. Just because that defense was arguably the very best ever. I remember that 85' playoff game between the Giants and Bears. Landetta missing that punt. Whew ! Though you know where my heart is.
I would have liked to see the 86 team revenge the loss the year prior, but that's not my problem.
The fact is the Giants remained much more relevant in terms of contending than the Bears in the years that followed.
Stupid damn strike ruined repeat chance. Only one of those 2 teams had a defensive player who was also league MVP.
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Post by IrishMike on Feb 20, 2019 6:38:22 GMT -5
The Bears outscored their opponents in the two NFC playoff games 45-0. Then 46-10 in the SB. 91-10. The Giants outscored their opponents in the two NFC playoff games 66-3. Then 39-19 in the SB. 105-22
Geez those were two dominant teams. Bears were 15-1. Giants were 14-2.
I truly believe that the 86 Giants would have beaten the 85 Bears on a neutral field but that's me. Of course I'm a Giants fan.
In other words.....Who knows who was better. They were both all time great championship teams.
BTW...Those numbers were strictly from memory. Not sure if they are exactly correct.
Man those two teams were amazing. Coaches and players on both side were incredible.
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Post by Waybackfan on Feb 20, 2019 6:45:51 GMT -5
'85 Bears.
Brutal defense.
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Post by jimmieray on Feb 20, 2019 6:46:06 GMT -5
The Bears outscored their opponents in the two NFC playoff games 45-0. Then 46-10 in the SB. 91-10. The Giants outscored their opponents in the two NFC playoff games 66-3. Then 39-19 in the SB. 105-22
Geez those were two dominant teams. Bears were 15-1. Giants were 14-2.
I truly believe that the 86 Giants would have beaten the 85 Bears on a neutral field but that's me. Of course I'm a Giants fan.
In other words.....Who knows who was better. They were both all time great championship teams.
BTW...Those numbers were strictly from memory. Not sure if they are exactly correct.
Montana and Walsh, Gibbs and the Hogs and Elway in the super Bowl. The Giants manhandled some very good teams and coaches. And how many opposing QBs did they knock out of the game back then, or even for the season.
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Post by Fletch842 on Feb 20, 2019 6:56:09 GMT -5
It's really a good question. I still consider the 85 Bears D to be the best ever, followed by the 2000 Ravens, but our '86 offense was significantly better than the '85 Bears. Both teams crushed it.
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Post by TCHOF on Feb 20, 2019 7:20:16 GMT -5
It's really a good question. I still consider the 85 Bears D to be the best ever, followed by the 2000 Ravens, but our '86 offense was significantly better than the '85 Bears. Both teams crushed it. I thinks that the Ravens 2000 defense is a distant third to the 85 Bears and 86 Giants.
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Post by Fletch842 on Feb 20, 2019 7:25:08 GMT -5
It's really a good question. I still consider the 85 Bears D to be the best ever, followed by the 2000 Ravens, but our '86 offense was significantly better than the '85 Bears. Both teams crushed it. I thinks that the Ravens 2000 defense is a distant third to the 85 Bears and 86 Giants. not sure I'd say distant. They were pretty dominant. And yes our '86 D was right up there.
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Post by bluejayc on Feb 20, 2019 8:26:02 GMT -5
To me the 85 Bears and 86 Giant were almost dead even except for one position ,running back , they had Walter Payton we had Joe Morris Agreed....advantage Giants . As others have said the Bears D was better but the Giants O was heads and shoulders better than the Bears O. I think this is impossible to call even as Giants fans. The only way to truly tell is to line these guys up again ala "The Best of Times."
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Post by Roosevelt on Feb 20, 2019 8:51:51 GMT -5
Montana and Walsh, Gibbs and the Hogs and Elway in the super Bowl. The Giants manhandled some very good teams and coaches. And how many opposing QBs did they knock out of the game back then, or even for the season.
I heard someone discussing how Jim McMahon payed the ultimate price for the "payback" from teams who got their QB's knocked out by the Bears.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Feb 20, 2019 9:00:45 GMT -5
The honest answer is the 85' Bears. Just because that defense was arguably the very best ever. I remember that 85' playoff game between the Giants and Bears. Landetta missing that punt. Whew ! Though you know where my heart is.
I would have liked to see the 86 team revenge the loss the year prior, but that's not my problem.
The fact is the Giants remained much more relevant in terms of contending than the Bears in the years that followed.
Oh I agree 100% Rosey, but the question asked specifically about just about those 2 seasons. For the next 5-6 years the giant defense carried us as a legit SB contender each year. The LBers group was as good as any whoever played imo. Not only the starters LT, Harry, Banks, Peppers but Reasons, Hunt, Headon. I always thought Gary Reasons and Carl Banks never got the credit that was due them.
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Post by Fletch842 on Feb 20, 2019 9:03:29 GMT -5
And how many opposing QBs did they knock out of the game back then, or even for the season.
I heard someone discussing how Jim McMahon payed the ultimate price for the "payback" from teams who got their QB's knocked out by the Bears.
that body slam he absorbed was one of the sleazier plays I've seen. Effectively ended him as a starting QB
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Feb 20, 2019 9:23:30 GMT -5
The honest answer is the 85' Bears. Just because that defense was arguably the very best ever. I remember that 85' playoff game between the Giants and Bears. Landetta missing that punt. Whew ! Though you know where my heart is. The Bears outscored their opponents in the two NFC playoff games 45-0. Then 46-10 in the SB. 91-10. The Giants outscored their opponents in the two NFC playoff games 66-3. Then 39-19 in the SB. 105-22
Geez those were two dominant teams. Bears were 15-1. Giants were 14-2.
I truly believe that the 86 Giants would have beaten the 85 Bears on a neutral field but that's me. Of course I'm a Giants fan.
In other words.....Who knows who was better. They were both all time great championship teams.
BTW...Those numbers were strictly from memory. Not sure if they are exactly correct.
Now I'm thinking and remembering certain games of that wonderful 86 team. I did know the Giants outscored S.F. (49-3) and Wash (17-0) also from memory. And I can't remember what I had for breakfast. That 66-3 total point differential will always stand out as superiority to me.
And our LBers were as great a unit as any that ever played.
Morehead not only the playoffs but in the SB that great goal line stand at the end of the first half. And each of our great LBers made a tackle on the first 3 downs (LT, Carson, Banks) and then they miss the FG. The momentum that gave the whole team. The 2nd half was a slaughter and a wonderful memory for our first ever SB.
Thanks for reminding me and bringing back those wonderful memories.
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r2z2
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Posts: 4,706
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Post by r2z2 on Feb 20, 2019 9:45:27 GMT -5
I heard someone discussing how Jim McMahon payed the ultimate price for the "payback" from teams who got their QB's knocked out by the Bears.
that body slam he absorbed was one of the sleazier plays I've seen. Effectively ended him as a starting QB Martin from Green Bay I believe. That play was criminal.
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 20, 2019 10:21:07 GMT -5
The honest answer is the 85' Bears. Just because that defense was arguably the very best ever. I remember that 85' playoff game between the Giants and Bears. Landetta missing that punt. Whew ! Though you know where my heart is. The Bears outscored their opponents in the two NFC playoff games 45-0. Then 46-10 in the SB. 91-10. The Giants outscored their opponents in the two NFC playoff games 66-3. Then 39-19 in the SB. 105-22
Geez those were two dominant teams. Bears were 15-1. Giants were 14-2.
I truly believe that the 86 Giants would have beaten the 85 Bears on a neutral field but that's me. Of course I'm a Giants fan.
In other words.....Who knows who was better. They were both all time great championship teams.
BTW...Those numbers were strictly from memory. Not sure if they are exactly correct.
And I think what's lost on the change of personal to a 12 is that they knew all they had to do was beat the Skins at home to clinch,and that was the first game they broke out heavy 12,(which the Skins also as we remember used exclusively),but surprised them with early deep seems . They knew they were probably getting the Bears again and thought using the TEs would be a major miss match in the passing game and give them 2 extra blockers against their 46,and I remember we got the Eagles in that last part of the season who had Buddy Ryan as a coach and brought his 46 with him and used that as a test run and they had no answer .. If you think about it,we basicky were the blueprint for the offense Bellicheck and Erheart took to New England, I was at the Championship game...for a 18 degree day/night with that sick wind i never once felt cold.And I never felt more confident about a game after we went up early. I think everyone in the stadium knew it was over,especially at 17-0 The entire 4th quarter was a huge party I have rooted for many sports teams that won it all,including teams that were dominant and expected to win 1994 Rangers 1986 Mets 2004 Lightning All those teams gave me insane ageta at times during their runs.. Not once did I not feel confident that this team wasnt going all the way,the only team to do so And for a team coming off such a long history of being bumbling fools is what made that team so special
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Post by Nite on Feb 20, 2019 10:42:59 GMT -5
Martin from Green Bay I believe. That play was criminal. I remember seeing that play on video later in the evening highlights..One of the dirtiest plays I have ever seen. That dude should have been kicked out of the league
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Post by Roosevelt on Feb 20, 2019 11:27:11 GMT -5
I would have liked to see the 86 team revenge the loss the year prior, but that's not my problem.
The fact is the Giants remained much more relevant in terms of contending than the Bears in the years that followed.
Oh I agree 100% Rosey, but the question asked specifically about just about those 2 seasons. For the next 5-6 years the giant defense carried us as a legit SB contender each year. The LBers group was as good as any whoever played imo. Not only the starters LT, Harry, Banks, Peppers but Reasons, Hunt, Headon. I always thought Gary Reasons and Carl Banks never got the credit that was due them.
Agreed, however I do believe Banks got the recognition at the time. In 86 John Madden often commented on Carl's play stating he's not sure if he's ever seen anyone play better at that position. Carl received All-Pro and Pro Bowl honors in 87 which was probably for his efforts in 86.
Reasons was a guy I thought was under appreciated. I thought he consistently made the plays that came his way, while not being flashy - except of course for his great effort at the goal line in Denver.
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 20, 2019 11:48:59 GMT -5
Oh I agree 100% Rosey, but the question asked specifically about just about those 2 seasons. For the next 5-6 years the giant defense carried us as a legit SB contender each year. The LBers group was as good as any whoever played imo. Not only the starters LT, Harry, Banks, Peppers but Reasons, Hunt, Headon. I always thought Gary Reasons and Carl Banks never got the credit that was due them.
Agreed, however I do believe Banks got the recognition at the time. In 86 John Madden often commented on Carl's play stating he's not sure if he's ever seen anyone play better at that position. Carl received All-Pro and Pro Bowl honors in 87 which was probably for his efforts in 86.
Reasons was a guy I thought was under appreciated. I thought he consistently made the plays that came his way, while not being flashy - except of course for his great effort at the goal line in Denver.
That was one hell of a blast by Reasons..
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Post by Zimonami on Feb 20, 2019 11:53:09 GMT -5
They scored 55 against Green Bay in the season finale and had a more impressive run in the playoffs imo. I remember Green Bay was not happy about us running up the score.
I was at that game, Rosie. We didn't run the score up. We had substitutes in for a good part of the game. The Green Bay defense simply didn't show up. We pushed them all over the field. They packed it in. There's no reason for our offense to play soft when that happens... it isn't good for keeping rhythm going into the playoffs, and injuries happen when you don't play hard. Final was 55-24. The score was 31 to 24 in the 3rd when Simms (18/27, 3 TD, 2 INT's) hit Mowatt for a TD pass that made it 38-24. After that the GB defense packed it in and we scored (2) rushing TD's by Rouson, subbing for Morris, 10 and 21 yards, and a final 26 yard FG by Allegre.
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Post by Zimonami on Feb 20, 2019 12:06:53 GMT -5
The honest answer is the 85' Bears. Just because that defense was arguably the very best ever. I remember that 85' playoff game between the Giants and Bears. Landetta missing that punt. Whew ! Though you know where my heart is. The Bears outscored their opponents in the two NFC playoff games 45-0. Then 46-10 in the SB. 91-10. The Giants outscored their opponents in the two NFC playoff games 66-3. Then 39-19 in the SB. 105-22
Geez those were two dominant teams. Bears were 15-1. Giants were 14-2.
I truly believe that the 86 Giants would have beaten the 85 Bears on a neutral field but that's me. Of course I'm a Giants fan.
In other words.....Who knows who was better. They were both all time great championship teams.
BTW...Those numbers were strictly from memory. Not sure if they are exactly correct.
In the '85 playoff at Chicago the weather was a big factor... especially the whiffed punt attempt by Landetta where the wind literally blew the drop away from his foot. They recovered and got a cheapy TD. The other was Rob Carpenter fumbling near mid field while he was running downfield, untouched, and no one near him. That fumble, and two by Sims were the difference. I always felt that we could have won that game on a neutral field with decent weather. Yet, we only got 32 yards rushing that game and they got 147... so, their great D was great that game, too. Our D was ranked 2nd that year, to their No. 1. Our offense was 2nd to theirs being 13. In '86 their D was still No. 1 and ours was 5th. Their O was 8th in '86, to ours 6th that year. Difficult to say, Our LB corp was so great, it's hard to swallow that their D was better... but, it was slightly better. Our Offense was definitely better, as was our special teams.
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Post by Roosevelt on Feb 20, 2019 13:18:30 GMT -5
I remember Green Bay was not happy about us running up the score.
I was at that game, Rosie. We didn't run the score up. We had substitutes in for a good part of the game. The Green Bay defense simply didn't show up. We pushed them all over the field. They packed it in. There's no reason for our offense to play soft when that happens... it isn't good for keeping rhythm going into the playoffs, and injuries happen when you don't play hard. Final was 55-24. The score was 31 to 24 in the 3rd when Simms (18/27, 3 TD, 2 INT's) hit Mowatt for a TD pass that made it 38-24. After that the GB defense packed it in and we scored (2) rushing TD's by Rouson, subbing for Morris, 10 and 21 yards, and a final 26 yard FG by Allegre.
My bad, it was the fake field goal while being up by 21 that pissed off Forrest Gregg.
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Post by Roosevelt on Feb 20, 2019 13:27:42 GMT -5
The Bears outscored their opponents in the two NFC playoff games 45-0. Then 46-10 in the SB. 91-10. The Giants outscored their opponents in the two NFC playoff games 66-3. Then 39-19 in the SB. 105-22
Geez those were two dominant teams. Bears were 15-1. Giants were 14-2.
I truly believe that the 86 Giants would have beaten the 85 Bears on a neutral field but that's me. Of course I'm a Giants fan.
In other words.....Who knows who was better. They were both all time great championship teams.
BTW...Those numbers were strictly from memory. Not sure if they are exactly correct.
In the '85 playoff at Chicago the weather was a big factor... especially the whiffed punt attempt by Landetta where the wind literally blew the drop away from his foot. They recovered and got a cheapy TD. The other was Rob Carpenter fumbling near mid field while he was running downfield, untouched, and no one near him. That fumble, and two by Sims were the difference. I always felt that we could have won that game on a neutral field with decent weather. Yet, we only got 32 yards rushing that game and they got 147... so, their great D was great that game, too. Our D was ranked 2nd that year, to their No. 1. Our offense was 2nd to theirs being 13. In '86 their D was still No. 1 and ours was 5th. Their O was 8th in '86, to ours 6th that year. Difficult to say, Our LB corp was so great, it's hard to swallow that their D was better... but, it was slightly better. Our Offense was definitely better, as was our special teams. That was a tough loss, but the Giants seemed to have built upon it and became even better. Knowing that we lost to the Super Bowl champs in '84 and '85 gave me some solace at the time. Especially after winning it the following year.
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