|
|
Post by moecoastie on Mar 27, 2019 12:21:20 GMT -5
QB - 48
RB - 5
TE- 4
WR - 7
WR - 4
LT - 9
RT - 6
LG - 5
RG - 5
C - 5
FLEX - 2
Total value - 100
Was bored and wanted to see if I could put a numerical value on each position on offense. Curious how everyone else would value each position.
Personally, Im conflicted. Its hard for me to imagine the total value of the offensive line would only make up 30 points out of a possible 100 on an 11 man squad.
|
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Mar 27, 2019 12:24:41 GMT -5
That's actually pretty accurate on paper
Thing is that you can also adjust this to the players currently on a roster
Having a guy like Barkley actually increases his value substantially,as did when we had Beckham..
|
|
|
|
Post by moecoastie on Mar 27, 2019 12:40:57 GMT -5
That's actually pretty accurate on paper Thing is that you can also adjust this to the players currently on a roster Having a guy like Barkley actually increases his value substantially,as did when we had Beckham.. what pool would those points come from? To keep it simple I was trying for a max value of 100. Basically, no modifiers. So as great as Saquon is, he may only be a total value of 5. Where as someone like Jordan Howard is a 4. |
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Mar 27, 2019 12:43:53 GMT -5
That's actually pretty accurate on paper Thing is that you can also adjust this to the players currently on a roster Having a guy like Barkley actually increases his value substantially,as did when we had Beckham.. what pool would those points come from? I could subtract from QB I have no idea to be honest... In our case Eli could be a 40 .. Then you get teams with elite QBs where they have over 55 points |
|
|
|
Post by jimmieray on Mar 27, 2019 12:44:51 GMT -5
That's actually pretty accurate on paper Thing is that you can also adjust this to the players currently on a roster Having a guy like Barkley actually increases his value substantially,as did when we had Beckham.. what pool would those points come from? I could subtract from QB I think you can take about 15 points off QB, and spread it around the line - especially at Center. That still leaves QB far above all others, as it should be. |
|
|
|
Post by bizcliz on Mar 27, 2019 12:45:17 GMT -5
give me the team with a QB worth 69 pts
|
|
|
|
Post by moecoastie on Mar 27, 2019 12:46:55 GMT -5
what pool would those points come from? I could subtract from QB I have no idea to be honest... In our case Eli could be a 40 .. Then you get teams with elite QBs where they have over 55 points Im sorry, I edited my post. I went on to say.. To keep it simple I was trying for a max value of 100. Basically, no modifiers. So as great as Saquon is, he may only be a total value of 5. Where as someone like Jordan Howard is a 4. |
|
|
|
Post by Sarcasman on Mar 27, 2019 12:47:13 GMT -5
what pool would those points come from? I could subtract from QB I have no idea to be honest... In our case Eli could be a 40 .. Then you get teams with elite QBs where they have over 55 points Are we sure it's not 95? I think it's 95. Maybe more. |
|
|
|
Post by moecoastie on Mar 27, 2019 12:51:42 GMT -5
what pool would those points come from? I could subtract from QB I think you can take about 15 points off QB, and spread it around the line - especially at Center. That still leaves QB far above all others, as it should be. THIS is more the idea...let me give it a shot. QB - 33 RB - 6 TE- 5 WR - 7 WR - 5 LT - 11 RT - 9 LG - 7 RG - 7 C - 8 FLEX - 2 Total value - 100 |
|
|
|
Post by DandyDon on Mar 27, 2019 13:12:12 GMT -5
I think you can take about 15 points off QB, and spread it around the line - especially at Center. That still leaves QB far above all others, as it should be. THIS is more the idea...let me give it a shot. QB - 33 RB - 6 TE- 5 WR - 7 WR - 5 LT - 11 RT - 9 LG - 7 RG - 7 C - 8 FLEX - 2 Total value - 100 If you go by salary (which is the exact definition of "value") you are not even close. www.businessinsider.com/nfl-highest-paid-positions-2014-9 |
|
|
|
Post by moecoastie on Mar 27, 2019 13:15:33 GMT -5
for the purpose of this thread..."value" as in contribution to a win...not salary cap. |
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Mar 28, 2019 10:33:34 GMT -5
QB - 48 RB - 5 TE- 4 WR - 7 WR - 4 LT - 9 RT - 6 LG - 5 RG - 5 C - 5 FLEX - 2 Total value - 100 Was bored and wanted to see if I could put a numerical value on each position on offense. Curious how everyone else would value each position. Personally, Im conflicted. Its hard for me to imagine the total value of the offensive line would only make up 30 points out of a possible 100 on an 11 man squad. Interesting... There are a lot of QBs out there that benefit from the players around them and the OLines. WE can see for Eli how important an OLine is for him more than other QBs, but its still a big part of the QB play. Its very rare to find a QB who can play to their potential without a good OL. That said, I would probably knock down the QB a little bit. QB - 35 RB - 6 WR1 - 10 WR2 - 5 LT - 12 LG - 6 C - 8 RG - 6 RT - 8 TE - 4 IMO, order of importance: QB LT WR1 C RT LG RG RB WR2 TE |
|
|
|
Post by jimmieray on Mar 28, 2019 11:21:10 GMT -5
QB - 48 RB - 5 TE- 4 WR - 7 WR - 4 LT - 9 RT - 6 LG - 5 RG - 5 C - 5 FLEX - 2 Total value - 100 Was bored and wanted to see if I could put a numerical value on each position on offense. Curious how everyone else would value each position. Personally, Im conflicted. Its hard for me to imagine the total value of the offensive line would only make up 30 points out of a possible 100 on an 11 man squad. Interesting... There are a lot of QBs out there that benefit from the players around them and the OLines. WE can see for Eli how important an OLine is for him more than other QBs, but its still a big part of the QB play. Its very rare to find a QB who can play to their potential without a good OL. That said, I would probably knock down the QB a little bit. QB - 35 RB - 6 WR1 - 10 WR2 - 5 LT - 12 LG - 6 C - 8 RG - 6 RT - 8 TE - 4 IMO, order of importance: QB LT WR1 C RT LG RG RB WR2 TE Can I ask how you put such a difference in value between WR1 and WR 2? Aren't we talking about a competently built team, here? |
|
|
|
Post by moecoastie on Mar 28, 2019 11:40:44 GMT -5
Interesting... There are a lot of QBs out there that benefit from the players around them and the OLines. WE can see for Eli how important an OLine is for him more than other QBs, but its still a big part of the QB play. Its very rare to find a QB who can play to their potential without a good OL. That said, I would probably knock down the QB a little bit. QB - 35 RB - 6 WR1 - 10 WR2 - 5 LT - 12 LG - 6 C - 8 RG - 6 RT - 8 TE - 4 IMO, order of importance: QB LT WR1 C RT LG RG RB WR2 TE Can I ask how you put such a difference in value between WR1 and WR 2? Aren't we talking about a competently built team, here? Well, a complete offensive squad (11 players) |
|
|
|
Post by DandyDon on Mar 28, 2019 11:57:12 GMT -5
for the purpose of this thread..."value" as in contribution to a win...not salary cap. So ignore the way teams in the NFL actually value the players, and just put imagined value on them? Your first post had the QB at almost 50%?? |
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Mar 28, 2019 12:00:56 GMT -5
Interesting... There are a lot of QBs out there that benefit from the players around them and the OLines. WE can see for Eli how important an OLine is for him more than other QBs, but its still a big part of the QB play. Its very rare to find a QB who can play to their potential without a good OL. That said, I would probably knock down the QB a little bit. QB - 35 RB - 6 WR1 - 10 WR2 - 5 LT - 12 LG - 6 C - 8 RG - 6 RT - 8 TE - 4 IMO, order of importance: QB LT WR1 C RT LG RG RB WR2 TE Can I ask how you put such a difference in value between WR1 and WR 2? Aren't we talking about a competently built team, here? I personally think having 1 WR is important, but the secondary WR doesnt need to be as important. In my case, I have the 2nd WR as about half the value as the 1st WR. I think if you have a great QB and a solid #1 WR, the WR2 isnt as important (as long as the OL is solid). I just wanted to put more importance on the OL as a whole. |
|
|
|
Post by jimmieray on Mar 28, 2019 12:03:40 GMT -5
Can I ask how you put such a difference in value between WR1 and WR 2? Aren't we talking about a competently built team, here? Well, a complete offensive squad (11 players) That's for Analyst. Now you had WR1 and WR2 right after one another, which makes more sense. A bit higher in value, than I place them - and that's because I want to see the O-line in place, before this is even a consequence. I see no value in a guy, just for being the last one with the ball in his hands - if you don't have the right personnel in the trenches to make this even happen. |
|
|
|
Post by jimmieray on Mar 28, 2019 12:07:14 GMT -5
Can I ask how you put such a difference in value between WR1 and WR 2? Aren't we talking about a competently built team, here? I personally think having 1 WR is important, but the secondary WR doesnt need to be as important. In my case, I have the 2nd WR as about half the value as the 1st WR. I think if you have a great QB and a solid #1 WR, the WR2 isnt as important (as long as the OL is solid). I just wanted to put more importance on the OL as a whole. Hard to counter that. But if you're properly spreading the ball around, because you now can - I'd expect more equal production, and thus more equal value.
Looking forward to what Tate and Sheppard do (as well as others down the chart), with hopefully the line in place.
|
|
|
|
Post by moecoastie on Mar 28, 2019 12:39:23 GMT -5
for the purpose of this thread..."value" as in contribution to a win...not salary cap. So ignore the way teams in the NFL actually value the players, and just put imagined value on them? Your first post had the QB at almost 50%?? right! If all players were not paid. What numerical value out of 100 does each player on the field for an offense represent toward a winning offense. My first draft was just that...a first draft. Im trying to think this out. Everyone says the QB is the most important piece to an offense so I tried to represent that. After looking at my first draft I was conflicted and figured this would be a cool exercise for all of us. |
|
|
|
Post by moecoastie on Mar 28, 2019 12:50:51 GMT -5
Well, a complete offensive squad (11 players) That's for Analyst. Now you had WR1 and WR2 right after one another, which makes more sense. A bit higher in value, than I place them - and that's because I want to see the O-line in place, before this is even a consequence. I see no value in a guy, just for being the last one with the ball in his hands - if you don't have the right personnel in the trenches to make this even happen. good catch. My mistake. I think I see your logic. In my adjusted values, the OL consisted of 42 points total. Which basically means 42% responsible for the execution of a successful play. Makes sense that 5 players on an 11-man squad have 42% responsibility to execute the play. |
|
|
|
Post by jimmieray on Mar 28, 2019 12:55:29 GMT -5
That's for Analyst. Now you had WR1 and WR2 right after one another, which makes more sense. A bit higher in value, than I place them - and that's because I want to see the O-line in place, before this is even a consequence. I see no value in a guy, just for being the last one with the ball in his hands - if you don't have the right personnel in the trenches to make this even happen. good catch. My mistake. I think I see your logic. In my adjusted values, the OL consisted of 42 points total. Which basically means 42% responsible for the execution of a successful play. Makes sense that 5 players on an 11-man squad have 42% responsibility to execute the play. Yes, my Bat Computer quickly came up with that logic, old chum. |
|
|
|
Post by moecoastie on Mar 28, 2019 12:55:37 GMT -5
I personally think having 1 WR is important, but the secondary WR doesnt need to be as important. In my case, I have the 2nd WR as about half the value as the 1st WR. I think if you have a great QB and a solid #1 WR, the WR2 isnt as important (as long as the OL is solid). I just wanted to put more importance on the OL as a whole. Hard to counter that. But if you're properly spreading the ball around, because you now can - I'd expect more equal production, and thus more equal value.
Looking forward to what Tate and Sheppard do (as well as others down the chart), with hopefully the line in place.
I like this idea of a more balanced WR duo. In my adjust list, I had WR1 @ 7 and WR2 @ 5 for a total of 12 out of 100. Would you split that to 6's? Would you add/subtract from other positions to equalize the WRs? |
|
|
|
Post by jimmieray on Mar 28, 2019 12:58:37 GMT -5
Hard to counter that. But if you're properly spreading the ball around, because you now can - I'd expect more equal production, and thus more equal value.
Looking forward to what Tate and Sheppard do (as well as others down the chart), with hopefully the line in place.
I like this idea of a more balanced WR duo. In my adjust list, I had WR1 @ 7 and WR2 @ 5 for a total of 12 out of 100. Would you split that to 6's? Would you add/subtract from other positions to equalize the WRs? I'd pay them nothing, make them rinse out all the other players' jocks after each practice, and require them to thank God for every day they're still on my team. |
|
|
|
Post by moecoastie on Mar 28, 2019 13:03:31 GMT -5
QB - 48 RB - 5 TE- 4 WR - 7 WR - 4 LT - 9 RT - 6 LG - 5 RG - 5 C - 5 FLEX - 2 Total value - 100 Was bored and wanted to see if I could put a numerical value on each position on offense. Curious how everyone else would value each position. Personally, Im conflicted. Its hard for me to imagine the total value of the offensive line would only make up 30 points out of a possible 100 on an 11 man squad. Interesting... There are a lot of QBs out there that benefit from the players around them and the OLines. WE can see for Eli how important an OLine is for him more than other QBs, but its still a big part of the QB play. Its very rare to find a QB who can play to their potential without a good OL. That said, I would probably knock down the QB a little bit. QB - 35 RB - 6 WR1 - 10 WR2 - 5 LT - 12 LG - 6 C - 8 RG - 6 RT - 8 TE - 4 IMO, order of importance: QB LT WR1 C RT LG RG RB WR2 TE That's only 10 players on the field for a total of 100. So, theoretically, there's a guy on the field that means absolutely nothing to the offense? I used FLEX as a designation for the 11th player. RB/WR/TE could also be used...whichever you want. |
|
|
|
Post by moecoastie on Mar 28, 2019 13:06:03 GMT -5
I like this idea of a more balanced WR duo. In my adjust list, I had WR1 @ 7 and WR2 @ 5 for a total of 12 out of 100. Would you split that to 6's? Would you add/subtract from other positions to equalize the WRs? I'd pay them nothing, make them rinse out all the other players' jocks after each practice, and require them to thank God for every day they're still on my team. think of it more of a numeric value toward the success of a play. If that makes any sense. Instead of pay value, think of it as responsibility value toward execution. Im confusing myself so I hope you get what I mean  |
|
|
|
Post by IrishMike on Mar 29, 2019 6:27:45 GMT -5
Here is my question. Do you base this on how much a good QB (or what ever position) helps your team or how much a bad one hurts your team. A bad WR will hurt less than a bad RB IMO, while a bad LT will hurt a ton. QB is the most important position in sports, but I think we are too high on this list. I would put them at 25, which is still twice as much as most other positions.
Most positions you can scheme around though. If your #1WR isn't amazing you can scheme around it (Pats), if your LT isn't good you can shift things and change your O. QBs and RBs can not really be schemed around if they aren't good.
|
|
|
|
Post by DandyDon on Mar 29, 2019 8:22:00 GMT -5
Here is my question. Do you base this on how much a good QB (or what ever position) helps your team or how much a bad one hurts your team. A bad WR will hurt less than a bad RB IMO, while a bad LT will hurt a ton. QB is the most important position in sports, but I think we are too high on this list. I would put them at 25, which is still twice as much as most other positions.
Most positions you can scheme around though. If your #1WR isn't amazing you can scheme around it (Pats), if your LT isn't good you can shift things and change your O. QBs and RBs can not really be schemed around if they aren't good.
Yup, if you put them at around what they actually get paid you will have a pretty good value number. |
|
|
|
Post by Jomo on Mar 29, 2019 13:25:42 GMT -5
QB - 48 RB - 5 TE- 4 WR - 7 WR - 4 LT - 9 RT - 6 LG - 5 RG - 5 C - 5 FLEX - 2 Total value - 100 Was bored and wanted to see if I could put a numerical value on each position on offense. Curious how everyone else would value each position. Personally, Im conflicted. Its hard for me to imagine the total value of the offensive line would only make up 30 points out of a possible 100 on an 11 man squad.Without those "30 points" performing well, nothing else works. If I was going to quibble (and I am not) maybe I take RT to 7 and C to 6 and maybe take 2 points off the QB to balance the books but..... |
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Mar 29, 2019 14:32:22 GMT -5
It is hard to put an numeric value on a position . The 53 man roster , The FO and The Coaching Staff all have to function as a well oiled machine to win .
How can it be quantifiable when the entire unit as a whole is symbiotic.
The QB can not win if the receiver / TE/ does not catch the ball.
The Receiver /TE can win if the Qb does not throw them the ball.
The RB can gain yardage if he is not handed the ball.
The Offense can not function if the O-line can not block
If the Defense can not get off the field . The Offense is not on the field.
If the Owner does not hire the right personnel The team is limited.
If the FO does not field the proper players . The team is at a disadvantage
If the Coaching staff does not have a successful game plan. The Team is unprepared.
Every member From the Owner to the players is dependent on everyone doing their job properly.
If there is a chink in the armor . It will be exposed on the field. It will not matter what numeric value you place on any position.
|
|
|
|
Post by moecoastie on Mar 29, 2019 15:10:07 GMT -5
QB - 48 RB - 5 TE- 4 WR - 7 WR - 4 LT - 9 RT - 6 LG - 5 RG - 5 C - 5 FLEX - 2 Total value - 100 Was bored and wanted to see if I could put a numerical value on each position on offense. Curious how everyone else would value each position. Personally, Im conflicted. Its hard for me to imagine the total value of the offensive line would only make up 30 points out of a possible 100 on an 11 man squad.Without those "30 points" performing well, nothing else works. If I was going to quibble (and I am not) maybe I take RT to 7 and C to 6 and maybe take 2 points off the QB to balance the books but..... in my 2nd version, I tried to balance out the points a little better: QB - 33 RB - 6 TE- 5 WR - 7 WR - 5 LT - 11 RT - 9 LG - 7 RG - 7 C - 8 FLEX - 2 Total value - 100 In this version, the QB carries about 1/3 of the responsibility of an offense while the OLINE as a unit represents about 42% of the offense. Combined, the performance of the QB and OLine represent roughly 75% of the performance of the offense. |
|
