Merc
Special Teams
Posts: 1,694
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Post by Merc on Jul 23, 2018 20:48:26 GMT -5
NJ.com has Ray Ray as the one out as Herzlich is an ILB backup. From a cost standpoint it makes sense as it cuts 1.25M from the cap.
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Post by TEM on Jul 23, 2018 20:57:39 GMT -5
Avery Moss played well last season. If he gets cut, it would indicate the NYG have good players at OLB. He had 10 tackles and a forced fumble in 11 games last year...granted he is still young, but he is another one of JR's attempts to draft a "JPP" that is not looking that great right now... Stops on Defense = total (sacks tackles and assists) last year JPP Played 1010 snaps . He was involved with making 78 stops on Defense. So he was making a play 7.7% of the time. Vernon played 698 snaps . He was involved in with making 44 stops on Defense. So he was making a play 6.4% of the time. Moss played 248 snaps . He was involved with making 14 stops on Defense . So he was making a play 6% of the time. Not bad when you consider snap count to performance for a 5th round rookie.
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Post by Nick6475 on Jul 23, 2018 20:59:16 GMT -5
This might mean the end of the line for Mark Herzlich .
Wouldn't surprise me if Herzlich gets an assistant position coaching job with the linebackers.
Really? Herzlich is/was never a good LB, but he went to BC (Coughlin), was a great story as he beat cancer, is a solid STs player and has compromising pictures of certain NYG executives. The only time he was a starter was when there was nobody else better...not sure that shouts LB coach.
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Post by Nick6475 on Jul 23, 2018 21:37:47 GMT -5
He had 10 tackles and a forced fumble in 11 games last year...granted he is still young, but he is another one of JR's attempts to draft a "JPP" that is not looking that great right now... Stops on Defense = total (sacks tackles and assists) last year JPP Played 1010 snaps . He was involved with making 78 stops on Defense. So he was making a play 7.7% of the time. Vernon played 698 snaps . He was involved in with making 44 stops on Defense. So he was making a play 6.4% of the time. Moss played 248 snaps . He was involved with making 14 stops on Defense . So he was making a play 6% of the time. Not bad when you consider snap count to performance for a 5th round rookie. Not to split hairs here, but making a tackle or assisting on a tackle isn't necessarily "making a play". I can't find a great site that shows tackles for loss or QB pressures by player in 2017 because in the end he was drafted to get to the QB and make tackles on the other side of the LOS. And like I said, he is still young and hopefully can improve his pass rushing ability.
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Post by TEM on Jul 23, 2018 21:46:49 GMT -5
Stops on Defense = total (sacks tackles and assists) last year JPP Played 1010 snaps . He was involved with making 78 stops on Defense. So he was making a play 7.7% of the time. Vernon played 698 snaps . He was involved in with making 44 stops on Defense. So he was making a play 6.4% of the time. Moss played 248 snaps . He was involved with making 14 stops on Defense . So he was making a play 6% of the time. Not bad when you consider snap count to performance for a 5th round rookie. Not to split hairs here, but making a tackle or assisting on a tackle isn't necessarily "making a play". I can't find a great site that shows tackles for loss or QB pressures by player in 2017 because in the end he was drafted to get to the QB and make tackles on the other side of the LOS. And like I said, he is still young and hopefully can improve his pass rushing ability. He is a 5th round pick that in itself is sign of "needs further development". The only drawback I see is his heath. He had a shoulder issue since October . Is his candle wick getting short? I hope for his sake it is not an ongoing issue with his durability.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 22:57:52 GMT -5
Earlier this month, Barwin said he was in no rush to sign with a team because he was waiting for the right situation, with a club he felt could win the Super Bowl. I hope he still felt that way when he signed with the Giants. It's a long shot, sure, but maybe he can help them get there. Do you think Barwin will still be with the Giants in 2021?
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goldenratio
Special Teams
"Son, you all got to do better than this,"
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Post by goldenratio on Jul 24, 2018 1:20:59 GMT -5
Avery Moss played well last season. If he gets cut, it would indicate the NYG have good players at OLB. He had 10 tackles and a forced fumble in 11 games last year...granted he is still young, but he is another one of JR's attempts to draft a "JPP" that is not looking that great right now... meaningless stats don't mean anything at all to those of us that don't play fantasy football. I stand by what is written. Avery Moss played well last season. Good college tape also. Anyone who watched him play the games rather than just read the stat lines would agree. 2 cents
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Post by ocgiant on Jul 24, 2018 1:36:24 GMT -5
More character building for the Giants with a leader and solid citizen in the locker room. Also knows his coach already and is familiar with the D. A good pick-up that could pan out nicely... not sure how it will effect the roster...
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r2z2
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Post by r2z2 on Jul 24, 2018 5:00:54 GMT -5
He is the next Carlos Emmons
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2018 5:42:16 GMT -5
This might mean the end of the line for Mark Herzlich . Who are our backup ILB’s? Good question. Rhetorical, I assume. But anyway: Ray Ray Armstrong, Herzlich, Calvin Munson, Thurston Armbrister, to backup Goodson and Ogletree. A bit more concerning than OLB depth, I thought. Hopefully Barwin can fill in at one of the ILB spots if need be. He did play SOLB in a 4-3 for Philly, which is more similar to an ILB in a 3-4, as an off-ball LBer, than OLB in a 3-4, imho. I like the signing, and if he can backup ILB, I love it.
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Post by TEM on Jul 24, 2018 5:56:15 GMT -5
Who are our backup ILB’s? Good question. Rhetorical, I assume. But anyway: Ray Ray Armstrong, Herzlich, Calvin Munson, Thurston Armbrister, to backup Goodson and Ogletree. Hopefully Barwin can fill in at one of the ILB spots if need be. He did play SOLB in a 4-3 for Philly, which is more similar to a ILB in a 3-4 than OLB in a 3-4, imho. But which 2 of the backups make the final 53? Right now I would not want to see any of them coming into a game. All of them have shown to have, I don't belong in the NFL issues.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2018 6:02:11 GMT -5
Good question. Rhetorical, I assume. But anyway: Ray Ray Armstrong, Herzlich, Calvin Munson, Thurston Armbrister, to backup Goodson and Ogletree. Hopefully Barwin can fill in at one of the ILB spots if need be. He did play SOLB in a 4-3 for Philly, which is more similar to a ILB in a 3-4 than OLB in a 3-4, imho. But which 2 of the backups make the final 53? Right now I would not want to see any of them coming into a game. All of them have shown to have, I don't belong in the NFL issues. Exactly my concern as well. I posted this thread last week. thegiantsboard.proboards.com/thread/288/linebacker-ilb-depthAs I said hopefully Barwin can play a little ILB if need be, or we can run 4-3 or Bear formation with Barwin at SOLB, or something. Because yes, poor depth can cost us big, especially in a playoff game or late season division game.
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Post by TEM on Jul 24, 2018 6:04:08 GMT -5
But which 2 of the backups make the final 53? Right now I would not want to see any of them coming into a game. All of them have shown to have, I don't belong in the NFL issues. Exactly my concern as well. I posted this thread last week. thegiantsboard.proboards.com/thread/288/linebacker-ilb-depthAs I said hopefully Barwin can play a little ILB if need be, or we can run Bear formation with Barwin at SOLB, or something. Because yes, poor depth can cost us big, especially in a playoff game or late season division game. I think you are spot on with Barwin.
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Post by GameTime on Jul 24, 2018 7:09:53 GMT -5
I have a feeling that a few of these LBs will be versatile enough to move inside and out if needed.
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Post by nysports98 on Jul 24, 2018 7:26:40 GMT -5
Wouldn't surprise me if Herzlich gets an assistant position coaching job with the linebackers.
Really? Herzlich is/was never a good LB, but he went to BC (Coughlin), was a great story as he beat cancer, is a solid STs player and has compromising pictures of certain NYG executives. The only time he was a starter was when there was nobody else better...not sure that shouts LB coach. assistant linebacker coach (if there is such a thing). Something about Herz the Giants really like and I'm thinking that something is besides his play.
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BigBlue58
Special Teams
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Post by BigBlue58 on Jul 24, 2018 7:53:40 GMT -5
Barwin is a nice pick up! It’ll be nice to see a pass rush coming from the LBing position again.
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wtfjjk
Special Teams
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Post by wtfjjk on Jul 24, 2018 7:56:43 GMT -5
I do think Moss is on the bubble looking in from the outside. Is Moss injured? No, he just sucks.
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Post by jimmieray on Jul 24, 2018 8:09:16 GMT -5
He had 10 tackles and a forced fumble in 11 games last year...granted he is still young, but he is another one of JR's attempts to draft a "JPP" that is not looking that great right now... Stops on Defense = total (sacks tackles and assists) last year JPP Played 1010 snaps . He was involved with making 78 stops on Defense. So he was making a play 7.7% of the time. Vernon played 698 snaps . He was involved in with making 44 stops on Defense. So he was making a play 6.4% of the time. Moss played 248 snaps . He was involved with making 14 stops on Defense . So he was making a play 6% of the time. Not bad when you consider snap count to performance for a 5th round rookie. Yeah, but with much less snaps, I'd think his time in was more situational and more to his advantage than the other DEs. What position he is slotted to play this season in the new scheme seems a bit up in the air, also.
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BigBlue58
Special Teams
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Post by BigBlue58 on Jul 24, 2018 8:11:55 GMT -5
Really? Herzlich is/was never a good LB, but he went to BC (Coughlin), was a great story as he beat cancer, is a solid STs player and has compromising pictures of certain NYG executives. The only time he was a starter was when there was nobody else better...not sure that shouts LB coach. assistant linebacker coach (if there is such a thing). Something about Herz the Giants really like and I'm thinking that something is besides his play. He’s an ok special teamer on an otherwise inept unit of very NOT ok special teamers. He’s been the best of a bad bunch. That’s why he’s still around! In mechanics terms...... Herzlich may not always be the best mechanic, but at least he knows which tool is which in the box. You ask the others for a torque wrench, they hand you a timing light!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2018 10:00:42 GMT -5
This might mean the end of the line for Mark Herzlich . There will be 3 things left after nuclear war Roaches Keith Richards Mark Herzlich LOL .. but say a lot about Herzlich's fighting spirit. He's lasted longer in this league than many thought, including myself.
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Post by shocknaweny on Jul 24, 2018 10:07:31 GMT -5
If he can start and provide some Umph from a pass rush perspective then it's a hell of a signing...He's familiar with the 3-4 at least so they're bringing in the right pieces and not forcing a round peg to fit into a square hole like the previous regime
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Post by shocknaweny on Jul 24, 2018 10:11:38 GMT -5
He is the next Carlos Emmons
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jul 24, 2018 10:31:50 GMT -5
Anybody being picked up at this time is not a lot of money. I'd be surprised if a player at this time gets anything more than league minimum. And if he's any type of pass rusher that could be a reason for a parade. just saw 2 years 5 mill depending on guarantee money and structure could be easy out after year one. Thanks BigBlue I seen it also. Especially if we want out after the first year. And cheap if we want the 2nd year. Depth and experience seems like a good deal.
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goldenratio
Special Teams
"Son, you all got to do better than this,"
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Post by goldenratio on Jul 24, 2018 11:10:49 GMT -5
show us a couple plays where Moss sucked last year. we'll wait. I can recall more than a few plays where JPP blew it. lost contain, was out of position, missed tackles but i can't recall even one play where moss screwed up. Maybe i missed it. Please post a video of even one play or cite an article of a writer saying moss played poorly. TYIA
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wtfjjk
Special Teams
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Post by wtfjjk on Jul 24, 2018 12:57:33 GMT -5
show us a couple plays where Moss sucked last year. we'll wait. I can recall more than a few plays where JPP blew it. lost contain, was out of position, missed tackles but i can't recall even one play where moss screwed up. Maybe i missed it. Please post a video of even one play or cite an article of a writer saying moss played poorly. TYIA I said it facetiously but yeah, let's not get carried away the other way either.
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Post by Sarcasman on Jul 24, 2018 12:58:28 GMT -5
Really? Herzlich is/was never a good LB, but he went to BC (Coughlin), was a great story as he beat cancer, is a solid STs player and has compromising pictures of certain NYG executives. The only time he was a starter was when there was nobody else better...not sure that shouts LB coach. assistant linebacker coach (if there is such a thing). Something about Herz the Giants really like and I'm thinking that something is besides his play. lol, it would have to be, woudn't it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 16:27:53 GMT -5
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giantsalmon
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Post by giantsalmon on Jul 26, 2018 20:34:23 GMT -5
That and the fact that he probably had little respect for the guys he faced. I can remember him celebrating sacks and tackles in the Giants backfield quite a few times.
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Post by NYxCrunch53 on Jul 27, 2018 1:21:35 GMT -5
This might mean the end of the line for Mark Herzlich . There will be 3 things left after nuclear war Roaches Keith Richards Mark Herzlich Add Tom Quinn to that list.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jul 27, 2018 3:05:56 GMT -5
There will be 3 things left after nuclear war Roaches Keith Richards Mark Herzlich Add Tom Quinn to that list. Yeah,that :/
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