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Post by jmike on Jul 16, 2019 15:05:49 GMT -5
No, there is no guarantee of employment and there is nothing wrong with the Giants cutting him based on the accusation. But would be kind of a crappy thing to do without at least looking into it. Let's say I was a renter of yours and one of your employees did work in my apartment and left. Nothing happened. But I decide I don't like him, and accuse him of assaulting me. Call the police. You'll fire him? Well within your rights to do so, and life isn't fair, but did you do the right thing by that employee who did nothing wrong? Should one half of our society have that much power to wield? Would you fire him if a male renter accused him of assault without any evidence as well, before any investigation? Or do you think it would be best to ask him to stay home from work for a few days while you look into it and determine what happened to the best of your abilities? Well...I actually didn't say fired, but if you are asking if I would fire him based on that police report? Absolutely. And it may be wrong, but it is in the best interest of all my other employees to do so. So a police report will include the completely false accusation, and you are perfectly ok firing this employee over this without looking into it at all? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 15:08:34 GMT -5
No, there is no guarantee of employment and there is nothing wrong with the Giants cutting him based on the accusation. But would be kind of a crappy thing to do without at least looking into it. Let's say I was a renter of yours and one of your employees did work in my apartment and left. Nothing happened. But I decide I don't like him, and accuse him of assaulting me. Call the police. You'll fire him? Well within your rights to do so, and life isn't fair, but did you do the right thing by that employee who did nothing wrong? Should one half of our society have that much power to wield? Would you fire him if a male renter accused him of assault without any evidence as well, before any investigation? Or do you think it would be best to ask him to stay home from work for a few days while you look into it and determine what happened to the best of your abilities? Well...I actually didn't say fired, but if you are asking if I would fire him based on that police report? Absolutely. And it may be wrong, but it is in the best interest of all my other employees to do so. recently in bodybuilding world a guy named shawn rhoden was charged with rape , was immediately barred from entering the mr Olympia this year. Ppl were upset because he is innocent tell proven guilty.He is , However that doesnt mean the employer has to wait till they find out. Its bad for business and as you said has to protect other competitors/ employees. Many female also. |
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Post by Delicreep on Jul 16, 2019 15:10:29 GMT -5
Well...I actually didn't say fired, but if you are asking if I would fire him based on that police report? Absolutely. And it may be wrong, but it is in the best interest of all my other employees to do so. So a police report will include the completely false accusation, and you are perfectly ok firing this employee over this without looking into it at all? Ummm...yes. Would you be OK with me having to fire 2 other employees because of lost business due to keeping a man publicly accused of assaulting a woman and standing on her neck? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 15:14:45 GMT -5
Well...I actually didn't say fired, but if you are asking if I would fire him based on that police report? Absolutely. And it may be wrong, but it is in the best interest of all my other employees to do so. So a police report will include the completely false accusation, and you are perfectly ok firing this employee over this without looking into it at all? yrhoyeah it really sucks but suppose a business didnt and then he assaulted an employee this time? Now look who gets sued and gets bad press. |
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Post by jmike on Jul 16, 2019 15:25:01 GMT -5
So a police report will include the completely false accusation, and you are perfectly ok firing this employee over this without looking into it at all? Ummm...yes. Would you be OK with me having to fire 2 other employees because of lost business due to keeping a man publicly accused of assaulting a woman and standing on her neck? OK, your choice. I would never work for you though. Most businesses suspend an employee pending an investigation and then fire said employee when they determine whether or not it seems likely to be true. Kind of exactly what the Giants did. Fairly common and reasonable practice. |
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Post by Delicreep on Jul 16, 2019 15:27:54 GMT -5
Ummm...yes. Would you be OK with me having to fire 2 other employees because of lost business due to keeping a man publicly accused of assaulting a woman and standing on her neck? OK, your choice. I would never work for you though. Most businesses suspend an employee pending an investigation and then fire said employee when they determine whether or not it seems likely to be true. Kind of exactly what the Giants did. Fairly common and reasonable practice. Didn't really answer my question, as I answered yours Would you be OK with me having to fire 2 other employees because I kept a man accused of standing on a woman's neck in my organization? |
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Post by jmike on Jul 16, 2019 15:28:07 GMT -5
So a police report will include the completely false accusation, and you are perfectly ok firing this employee over this without looking into it at all? yrhoyeah it really sucks but suppose a business didnt and then he assaulted an employee this time? Now look who gets sued and gets bad press. This is why you suspend them pending an investigation, these types of employer investigations generally take one or two days. During which time the employee is not yet fired, but also not at work. |
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Post by Delicreep on Jul 16, 2019 15:31:24 GMT -5
yrhoyeah it really sucks but suppose a business didnt and then he assaulted an employee this time? Now look who gets sued and gets bad press. This is why you suspend them pending an investigation, these types of employer investigations generally take one or two days. During which time the employee is not yet fired, but also not at work. What investigation do you think I can do in two days? Am I sending people out to the scene of the crime? Am I canvasing the neighborhood for witnesses? Am I asking him? |
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Post by jmike on Jul 16, 2019 15:37:55 GMT -5
OK, your choice. I would never work for you though. Most businesses suspend an employee pending an investigation and then fire said employee when they determine whether or not it seems likely to be true. Kind of exactly what the Giants did. Fairly common and reasonable practice. Didn't really answer my question, as I answered yours Would you be OK with me having to fire 2 other employees because I kept a man accused of standing on a woman's neck in my organization? Sorry, I didn't think that was a serious question as the answer to handle that is quite obvious. No would not be ok with that, but I see no reason why you would need to. If you handle things in a professional manner and address the accusation immediately. Simple, "John Doe has been suspended pending an internal investigation of this matter. We take these things very seriously and once we are confident in the information obtained on the incident a final determination will be made." Again, if you are a business owner, I would think you would know how to handle these things in a way that protects yourself, your customers, the employee in question and other employees. This is not a radical situation that businesses don't have to deal with all the time. As said, most often the employee is suspended from work until a decision is reached. It could take 3 hours or it could take 48. |
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Post by Delicreep on Jul 16, 2019 15:41:29 GMT -5
Didn't really answer my question, as I answered yours Would you be OK with me having to fire 2 other employees because I kept a man accused of standing on a woman's neck in my organization? Sorry, I didn't think that was a serious question as the answer to handle that is quite obvious. No would not be ok with that, but I see no reason why you would need to. If you handle things in a professional manner and address the accusation immediately. Simple, "John Doe has been suspended pending an internal investigation of this matter. We take these things very seriously and once we are confident in the information obtained on the incident a final determination will be made." Again, if you are a business owner, I would think you would know how to handle these things in a way that protects yourself, your customers, the employee in question and other employees. This is not a radical situation that businesses don't have to deal with all the time. As said, most often the employee is suspended from work until a decision is reached. It could take 3 hours or it could take 48. What, aside from a police report we already have, would your investigation involve? |
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Post by snyder55 on Jul 16, 2019 15:48:20 GMT -5
it would take a lot not to sock this "lady " Seriously? Leaving was an option. she told him to get out of here a few times and the fact that he stayed allowed him to be subjected to all of that brain damaged abuse from someone who is far less than a lady.. |
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Post by TCHOF on Jul 16, 2019 15:48:46 GMT -5
Didn't really answer my question, as I answered yours Would you be OK with me having to fire 2 other employees because I kept a man accused of standing on a woman's neck in my organization? Sorry, I didn't think that was a serious question as the answer to handle that is quite obvious. No would not be ok with that, but I see no reason why you would need to. If you handle things in a professional manner and address the accusation immediately. Simple, "John Doe has been suspended pending an internal investigation of this matter. We take these things very seriously and once we are confident in the information obtained on the incident a final determination will be made." Again, if you are a business owner, I would think you would know how to handle these things in a way that protects yourself, your customers, the employee in question and other employees. This is not a radical situation that businesses don't have to deal with all the time. As said, most often the employee is suspended from work until a decision is reached. It could take 3 hours or it could take 48. Here's the question - Would you suspend him with pay? |
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Post by jmike on Jul 16, 2019 15:49:25 GMT -5
This is why you suspend them pending an investigation, these types of employer investigations generally take one or two days. During which time the employee is not yet fired, but also not at work. What investigation do you think I can do in two days? Am I sending people out to the scene of the crime? Am I canvasing the neighborhood for witnesses? Am I asking him? really? you have never looked into any time of complaint or accusation from a customer about an employee's actions? 1-Speak to the customer with complaint 2-Speak to any other customers who witnessed 3-Speak to any employees that were working that day and may have had contact with the customer or employee in question. 4-Speak to the police and get a copy of report. 5-Speak to the employee in question. 6-Decide whether or not the accusation seems likely enough to fire the person. Depending on the structure of your workplace you can probably accomplish this in a couple of hours. Wait a day on final police report, max, the speak to the employee the next morning. If this was offsite: 1-Review the employee's file for any indications of aggressive behavior 2-Speak to other employees about this person 3-Review final police report and speak to the officer who reported to the scene, if he will speak with you 4-Speak with the employee in question 5-Make a final determination Maybe in either case the final police report will be enough, each situation is unique. |
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Post by jmike on Jul 16, 2019 15:52:08 GMT -5
Sorry, I didn't think that was a serious question as the answer to handle that is quite obvious. No would not be ok with that, but I see no reason why you would need to. If you handle things in a professional manner and address the accusation immediately. Simple, "John Doe has been suspended pending an internal investigation of this matter. We take these things very seriously and once we are confident in the information obtained on the incident a final determination will be made." Again, if you are a business owner, I would think you would know how to handle these things in a way that protects yourself, your customers, the employee in question and other employees. This is not a radical situation that businesses don't have to deal with all the time. As said, most often the employee is suspended from work until a decision is reached. It could take 3 hours or it could take 48. Here's the question - Would you suspend him with pay? Depends on company policy or union agreement when dealing with a union employee. |
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Post by Delicreep on Jul 16, 2019 15:53:33 GMT -5
What investigation do you think I can do in two days? Am I sending people out to the scene of the crime? Am I canvasing the neighborhood for witnesses? Am I asking him? really? you have never looked into any time of complaint or accusation from a customer about an employee's actions? 1-Speak to the customer with complaint 2-Speak to any other customers who witnessed 3-Speak to any employees that were working that day and may have had contact with the customer or employee in question. 4-Speak to the police and get a copy of report. 5-Speak to the employee in question. 6-Decide whether or not the accusation seems likely enough to fire the person. Depending on the structure of your workplace you can probably accomplish this in a couple of hours. Wait a day on final police report, max, the speak to the employee the next morning. If this was offsite: 1-Review the employee's file for any indications of aggressive behavior
2-Speak to other employees about this person
3-Review final police report and speak to the officer who reported to the scene, if he will speak with you
4-Speak with the employee in question
5-Make a final determinationMaybe in either case the final police report will be enough, each situation is unique. 1) Employee file says he's a sweetheart 2) He says he didn't do it 3) Police report says he stood on her neck and punched her There is not a boss on the planet who is saying, "let's keep this guy around our coed's". |
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Post by Fletch842 on Jul 16, 2019 15:54:38 GMT -5
Police reports.
What final determination have I made. Fire him? Please. He's lucky a few of my crew wasn't there when it happened. Getting fired would be the least of his worries
If they were, then maybe you would have some idea of what happened. Though likely still not an accurate picture. Ever read studies on the reliability of eye witnesses? Fascinating stuff really. If you've never seen Rahomon, I highly recommend it. One of the best films ever made. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashomon |
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Post by jmike on Jul 16, 2019 15:56:23 GMT -5
The kid was accused, the Giants suspended him pending an investigation. This is a normal and very common practice in all kinds of different companies.
Some feel he does not deserve any type of investigation because of what he was accused of. I am of the opinion that at least make sure this isn't some nut job lying to the police before cutting the kid. Not really sure what is so controversial there. I guess it doesn't get your pound of flesh fast enough.
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Post by Delicreep on Jul 16, 2019 15:59:58 GMT -5
The kid was accused, the Giants suspended him pending an investigation. This is a normal and very common practice in all kinds of different companies. Some feel he does not deserve any type of investigation because of what he was accused of. I am of the opinion that at least make sure this isn't some nut job lying to the police before cutting the kid. Not really sure what is so controversial there. I guess it doesn't get your pound of flesh fast enough. I'm saying that you seem to think that all companies should be able to conduct investigations, that we should have the time, money and assets to devote to conducting our own investigations. I don't...I do pay taxes for the police to do those things. They did...he stood on her throat. |
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Post by jmike on Jul 16, 2019 16:01:06 GMT -5
really? you have never looked into any time of complaint or accusation from a customer about an employee's actions? 1-Speak to the customer with complaint 2-Speak to any other customers who witnessed 3-Speak to any employees that were working that day and may have had contact with the customer or employee in question. 4-Speak to the police and get a copy of report. 5-Speak to the employee in question. 6-Decide whether or not the accusation seems likely enough to fire the person. Depending on the structure of your workplace you can probably accomplish this in a couple of hours. Wait a day on final police report, max, the speak to the employee the next morning. If this was offsite: 1-Review the employee's file for any indications of aggressive behavior
2-Speak to other employees about this person
3-Review final police report and speak to the officer who reported to the scene, if he will speak with you
4-Speak with the employee in question
5-Make a final determinationMaybe in either case the final police report will be enough, each situation is unique. 1) Employee file says he's a sweetheart 2) He says he didn't do it 3) Police report says he stood on her neck and punched her There is not a boss on the planet who is saying, "let's keep this guy around our coed's". OK, I am going to accuse John who works for you of punching me and standing on my neck. I'll make sure to bruise my face and neck good. Then I will call the police. I never met John. John was in another state when it happened. But the police report says, that John punched me and stepped on my neck because that is what I told the police is what happened. So you will now fire John? Does this seem reasonable to you? |
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Post by Delicreep on Jul 16, 2019 16:03:38 GMT -5
1) Employee file says he's a sweetheart 2) He says he didn't do it 3) Police report says he stood on her neck and punched her There is not a boss on the planet who is saying, "let's keep this guy around our coed's". OK, I am going to accuse John who works for you of punching me and standing on my neck. I'll make sure to bruise my face and neck good. Then I will call the police. I never met John. John was in another state when it happened. But the police report says, that John punched me and stepped on my neck because that is what I told the police is what happened. So you will now fire John? Does this seem reasonable to you? And you believe that my investigation, which would seem to at least boarder on witness tampering, will crack the case wide open? That I will be able to get to the truth faster than the cops? This seems reasonable to you? |
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Post by jmike on Jul 16, 2019 16:05:33 GMT -5
The kid was accused, the Giants suspended him pending an investigation. This is a normal and very common practice in all kinds of different companies. Some feel he does not deserve any type of investigation because of what he was accused of. I am of the opinion that at least make sure this isn't some nut job lying to the police before cutting the kid. Not really sure what is so controversial there. I guess it doesn't get your pound of flesh fast enough. I'm saying that you seem to think that all companies should be able to conduct investigations, that we should have the time, money and assets to devote to conducting our own investigations. I don't...I do pay taxes for the police to do those things. They did...he stood on her throat. It doesn't take money or assets to conduct. It does take time. I work with businesses of all sizes, I own my own as well, nearly all of them would suspend the employee first while looking into it. Sometimes the investigation is as simple as looking at the security camera information. |
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Post by jmike on Jul 16, 2019 16:12:28 GMT -5
OK, I am going to accuse John who works for you of punching me and standing on my neck. I'll make sure to bruise my face and neck good. Then I will call the police. I never met John. John was in another state when it happened. But the police report says, that John punched me and stepped on my neck because that is what I told the police is what happened. So you will now fire John? Does this seem reasonable to you? And you believe that my investigation, which would seem to at least boarder on witness tampering, will crack the case wide open? That I will be able to get to the truth faster than the cops? This seems reasonable to you? ok, this is going nowhere. I am shocked you have employees and never had to deal with an accusation of conduct you didn't personally witness and the investigation to determine what happened. I was just a supervisor of bar/waitstaff and I have had to do conduct investigations, many of them. They are not particularly difficult, just a bit time consuming. You aren't trying to crack the case, just determine if the accusation seems plausible enough to take action. |
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Post by Delicreep on Jul 16, 2019 16:17:51 GMT -5
And you believe that my investigation, which would seem to at least boarder on witness tampering, will crack the case wide open? That I will be able to get to the truth faster than the cops? This seems reasonable to you? ok, this is going nowhere. I am shocked you have employees and never had to deal with an accusation of conduct you didn't personally witness and the investigation to determine what happened. I was just a supervisor of bar/waitstaff and I have had to do conduct investigations, many of them. They are not particularly difficult, just a bit time consuming. Right now the only info we have is a police report. I’m suppose to go out and look to see if there are cameras., then ask to see the tape? |
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Post by Delicreep on Jul 16, 2019 18:13:06 GMT -5
And you believe that my investigation, which would seem to at least boarder on witness tampering, will crack the case wide open? That I will be able to get to the truth faster than the cops? This seems reasonable to you? ok, this is going nowhere. I am shocked you have employees and never had to deal with an accusation of conduct you didn't personally witness and the investigation to determine what happened. I was just a supervisor of bar/waitstaff and I have had to do conduct investigations, many of them. They are not particularly difficult, just a bit time consuming. You aren't trying to crack the case, just determine if the accusation seems plausible enough to take action. Let's clarify who I hire: I hire maintenance men and custodians, who have master keys to all the apartments. Apartments rented largely by college students between 19 and 25, half of whom are female Apartments paid for by doting, overly protective moms and dads, who are laser focused on their children and their security. I can not imagine saying to a father who has read the story of my maintenance man standing on a woman's neck and tell him, "don't worry, I asked him about it and he said he totally didn't do it...totally. You should feel your 19 year old daughter is safe with me and not go rent an apartments across the street, where none of their employees are accused of a horrific assault".Love to hear from some parents out there...is he a keeper? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 18:54:21 GMT -5
Just like how the Giants cut promptly cut Josh Brown?  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 19:20:54 GMT -5
Just like how the Giants cut promptly cut Josh Brown? now i dont know if skill level or color of skin was the reason, but it certainly is interesting that one can be suspended or cut and one can remain on the team. |
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Post by Blue Hulk on Jul 16, 2019 19:30:40 GMT -5
I think that is where family, a good agent and friends can make a difference for most of the players. SB certainly is exceptional example. Absolutely. Though, as we have all clearly seen; young players like SB are less common than those that are not. Some of them eventually grow up, some do not. Even a player like OBJ, who isn't really a bad person who has done bad things, has behaved in a very immature manner since joining the league. I am sure that many around him have attempted to make a difference and for one reason or another he won't or can't make those changes up to this point. I hope for his own sake he grows up soon, before it is too late. While immature, he does not seem like a bad kid to me. A player like this Moore kid seems like a bad kid if these allegations are true. I hope he faces the full legal ramifications of his actions if it is found these allegations are true. I also hope that whatever the consequences are, he becomes a better person at the end of it. That seems unlikely, but would be the best result for everybody. "The Catch" went to his head. The Josh Norman game pushed him over the edge. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 19:52:51 GMT -5
Just like how the Giants cut promptly cut Josh Brown? now i dont know if skill level or color of skin was the reason, but it certainly is interesting that one can be suspended or cut and one can remain on the team. A 40 year old women beating punter was apparently not a distraction. |
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Post by Roswell on Jul 16, 2019 20:07:12 GMT -5
Police reports says.....He stepped on her neck and punched her with a closed fist. I don't need to be there to know a punk when I hear about it. Not defending the guy but a police report is not proof of what happened. it’s only an account of what happened by the complaining party. |
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Post by Delicreep on Jul 16, 2019 20:50:41 GMT -5
Just like how the Giants cut promptly cut Josh Brown? now i dont know if skill level or color of skin was the reason, but it certainly is interesting that one can be suspended or cut and one can remain on the team. Do you think that one was widely reported in the media and one was essentially unknown to the public might have been a factor? |
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