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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2019 10:41:01 GMT -5
The Giants control getting Young. A guy who could potentially change this D for a decade. They play both Washington and Miami, both of whom would take Young should we beat them and allow them to leapfrog on the draftboard. At this point no win matters. I’m not sure they even need to intentionally punt the season, but the falloff after Young is big. There isn’t another like him. I think they need to go 2-14 and if that requires taking so e measures in the Miami and Washington games I am for it. I'm down with doing whatever it takes to be in a position to get Chase. But, we need to hope the Bengals win a few more so we can secure the top spot. The Bengals will go after a QB, Burrow, but I think they could trade down and still get him. Going to be a ton of teams wanting to trade up ahead of us to get Young.
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Post by lasion2 on Nov 30, 2019 10:46:54 GMT -5
With peppers out we should see Baker, Ballantine, Beal, and Love on the field as much as possible the rest of the way. At the expense of JJs and Betheas snaps. Carter should begin to learn the ilb spot at the expense of tress’s snaps, which would get OX on the field more. Engram to IR and we get to see what we have in Smith. The record will take care of itself How do you reduce Bethea’s snaps with Peppers out? Good question. Could go with Thomas, but I see your point
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Post by vbgiantsfan on Nov 30, 2019 12:14:31 GMT -5
It's just the first drive, but I saw Young dominated the the Michigan LT on the entire drive, and he did not set the edge on the Michigan touchdown when lined up over the RT.
It's early, but I've never seen him play before (I'm a UVa fan) so I'm laser focused on him for this game.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Nov 30, 2019 13:38:38 GMT -5
It's just the first drive, but I saw Young dominated the the Michigan LT on the entire drive, and he did not set the edge on the Michigan touchdown when lined up over the RT. It's early, but I've never seen him play before (I'm a UVa fan) so I'm laser focused on him for this game. He has been touched by the hand of God... lol. The last time I loved a defensive prospect like this was Jaylon Smith before his injury. Chase Young is a minimal. One of those "generational" type pass rushers.
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Post by DandyDon on Nov 30, 2019 14:20:51 GMT -5
The Giants control getting Young. A guy who could potentially change this D for a decade. They play both Washington and Miami, both of whom would take Young should we beat them and allow them to leapfrog on the draftboard. At this point no win matters. I’m not sure they even need to intentionally punt the season, but the falloff after Young is big. There isn’t another like him. I think they need to go 2-14 and if that requires taking so e measures in the Miami and Washington games I am for it. I'm down with doing whatever it takes to be in a position to get Chase. But, we need to hope the Bengals win a few more so we can secure the top spot. The Bengals will go after a QB, Burrow, but I think they could trade down and still get him. Going to be a ton of teams wanting to trade up ahead of us to get Young. You know we are going to win a couple more game to make this a lot more challenging, right?
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Post by Fletch842 on Nov 30, 2019 15:03:19 GMT -5
I'm down with doing whatever it takes to be in a position to get Chase. But, we need to hope the Bengals win a few more so we can secure the top spot. The Bengals will go after a QB, Burrow, but I think they could trade down and still get him. Going to be a ton of teams wanting to trade up ahead of us to get Young. You know we are going to win a couple more game to make this a lot more challenging, right? Sadly Don, I'm not so sure.
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 30, 2019 15:44:05 GMT -5
The thing is that because we have the softest schedule of the bad teams it's going to work in our favor draft position wise We don't get more than 2 more wins Let's say we end up 3-13 Redskins have to finish 2-14 to have a better slot because their schedule just by them playing the 49ers is much stronger than ours so we win that tie breaker
Miami probably has a stronger schedule as well with having 2 good teams in the AFC east and playing the AFC north
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2019 16:21:31 GMT -5
I'm down with doing whatever it takes to be in a position to get Chase. But, we need to hope the Bengals win a few more so we can secure the top spot. The Bengals will go after a QB, Burrow, but I think they could trade down and still get him. Going to be a ton of teams wanting to trade up ahead of us to get Young. You know we are going to win a couple more game to make this a lot more challenging, right? Sigh....It's the Giants way.
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 30, 2019 16:27:09 GMT -5
what more do people need to see from Shurmur that would help make up their minds to keep him, I think people are just looking for a way to keep him when they should be looking for his replacement... IMO, ownership will be looking for an excuse to keep him. what would they have seen from him to justify bringing him back for another season, if they did bring him back and things looked the same as they do right now there would be a media explosion the owners would have to hide from, not to mention the fans..
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 30, 2019 16:33:27 GMT -5
Even with 5 possible starting QBs coming from the first round it doesn't devalue the number 2/3 pick. Teams don't want their consolation QB, they want their guy. Like what happened with Trubisky even though there were other guys still on the board that showed promise. If we do end up with 2 or 3 overall getting 2 1st's and a 2nd isnt outside the realm of possibilty. The problem with trading down is this GM and coaching staff are on the hot seat 5-11 and a possibility of a 3-13 season this year trading down for more picks and your future is in question doesn’t seem like what Gettleman will do. I don’t think they would do that if one of the blue chip pass rushers or the offensive tackles is available. Hell we need 2 new tackles Solder has been below average but were stuck with him at least one more season yikes. if Gettleman and Shurmur are both gone after this season wouldn't our draft position and the number of picks we have be a huge attraction for a good quality HC to want come here..
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Post by Fletch842 on Nov 30, 2019 17:44:34 GMT -5
You know we are going to win a couple more game to make this a lot more challenging, right? Sigh....It's the Giants way. Shurmur is such a bumble*&&%*&^ that I can see us running the losing table, even when he is trying desperately to win. The only thing I like about him (as a coach, nothing personal, seems like a really nice fellow) is that the team is still pretty cohesive and plays for him, even if they do play poorly. It's not the same indignant shitshow that we saw at the end of BMac's tenure.
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Post by cruzsoldier on Nov 30, 2019 23:15:16 GMT -5
The problem with trading down is this GM and coaching staff are on the hot seat 5-11 and a possibility of a 3-13 season this year trading down for more picks and your future is in question doesn’t seem like what Gettleman will do. I don’t think they would do that if one of the blue chip pass rushers or the offensive tackles is available. Hell we need 2 new tackles Solder has been below average but were stuck with him at least one more season yikes. if Gettleman and Shurmur are both gone after this season wouldn't our draft position and the number of picks we have be a huge attraction for a good quality HC to want come here.. I think you missed the point of why Gettleman wouldn’t trade down....This is the 2nd season under his watch and if the team was 5-11 his first season as the GM followed up by let’s say a 3-13 there will be enormous pressure to win next season especially when Gettleman sez he has a plan but his moves are as difficult to figure out as trying to make sense of some of the things that come out of the White House. He needs an impact player and needs to win in his 3rd season he can’t use the excuse “I inherited a 3 win team” when you have been the GM for 3 years and the team is still awful that’s on you Gettleman.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 2, 2019 20:05:24 GMT -5
This team wont be in position to draft him. The giants will win at least 1 or 2 more games this season and that will be enough to not be in position to get him . I finally got a chance to watch him against Michigan and he was the invisible man and was handled by both tackles one on one at times, Runyans son had no issue shutting him down. All I have been hearing is all great stuff this past game was a clunker for him.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 7:29:48 GMT -5
He's a great get the QB player...one of best coming out in a long while. Character concerns? Father is a cop, as are his two uncles. They were also top athletes...Chase is studying criminology. He is not only a freak athlete, but has a great background, and wants to be a cop and follow is his dad's footsteps. He's the pick.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Dec 8, 2019 9:06:41 GMT -5
He's a great get the QB player...one of best coming out in a long while. Character concerns? Father is a cop, as are his two uncles. They were also top athletes...Chase is studying criminology. He is not only a freak athlete, but has a great background, and wants to be a cop and follow is his dad's footsteps. He's the pick. How does he expect to be a cop when he is constantly murdering QBs?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 9:10:15 GMT -5
He's a great get the QB player...one of best coming out in a long while. Character concerns? Father is a cop, as are his two uncles. They were also top athletes...Chase is studying criminology. He is not only a freak athlete, but has a great background, and wants to be a cop and follow is his dad's footsteps. He's the pick. How does he expect to be a cop when he is constantly murdering QBs? "This is how you assault somebody son"
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Post by TEM on Dec 8, 2019 10:39:46 GMT -5
This team wont be in position to draft him. The giants will win at least 1 or 2 more games this season and that will be enough to not be in position to get him . I finally got a chance to watch him against Michigan and he was the invisible man and was handled by both tackles one on one at times, Runyans son had no issue shutting him down. All I have been hearing is all great stuff this past game was a clunker for him. Another lackluster game against Wisconsin yesterday. Cole Van Lanen contained him. His draft stock went up a few points. Definitely a look with LC's 3rd round comp pick
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 10:53:16 GMT -5
I finally got a chance to watch him against Michigan and he was the invisible man and was handled by both tackles one on one at times, Runyans son had no issue shutting him down. All I have been hearing is all great stuff this past game was a clunker for him. Another lackluster game against Wisconsin yesterday. Cole Van Lanen contained him. His draft stock went up a few points. Definitely a look with LC's 3rd round comp pick Six tackles, 1.5 for loss, two pass breakups.... and two quarterback hurries. I'll take that lackluster each and every game...especially when he absorbs two players blocking him, and a lot of holding that will eventually be called. He is unblockable one on one in pass situations...unless you do this... or
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 11:04:55 GMT -5
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Post by TEM on Dec 8, 2019 11:07:46 GMT -5
Another lackluster game against Wisconsin yesterday. Cole Van Lanen contained him. His draft stock went up a few points. Definitely a look with LC's 3rd round comp pick Six tackles, 1.5 for loss, two pass breakups.... and two quarterback hurries. I'll take that lackluster each and every game...especially when he absorbs two players blocking him, and a lot of holding that will eventually be called. He is unblockable one on one in pass situations...unless you do this... or If he s unlockable why no sacks in the past 2 games? He was not being held on ever pass play.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 11:17:15 GMT -5
Six tackles, 1.5 for loss, two pass breakups.... and two quarterback hurries. I'll take that lackluster each and every game...especially when he absorbs two players blocking him, and a lot of holding that will eventually be called. He is unblockable one on one in pass situations...unless you do this... or If he s unlockable why no sacks in the past 2 games? He was not being held on ever pass play. Not sure why you don't see his immense talent, nor the holding and double teams...he's a weak side end with immense power and incredible quickness...teams are sending doubles and are for sure holding most pass plays. Ohio State sends the tape of him being held every week...it's blatant. I will let this debate pass as I do not have time to argue insanely about the obvious...we will have to agree to disagree ...make that STRONGLY disagree on my end. The debate should be, IMHO, not if he is a great player...he is...but if offered a truck load of picks for this monster, would you trade back in the draft and stockpile. I have been doing that a lot on the GM version of the mock generator.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Dec 8, 2019 11:20:50 GMT -5
I finally got a chance to watch him against Michigan and he was the invisible man and was handled by both tackles one on one at times, Runyans son had no issue shutting him down. All I have been hearing is all great stuff this past game was a clunker for him. Another lackluster game against Wisconsin yesterday. Cole Van Lanen contained him. His draft stock went up a few points. Definitely a look with LC's 3rd round comp pick Lackluster? Maybe it wasnt what he did last time playing Wisconsin because they smartened up, but he still was making his presence felt. Coan was doing mostly 3 step drops and firing due to not wanting Young to wreck havoc again.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Dec 8, 2019 11:22:13 GMT -5
Six tackles, 1.5 for loss, two pass breakups.... and two quarterback hurries. I'll take that lackluster each and every game...especially when he absorbs two players blocking him, and a lot of holding that will eventually be called. He is unblockable one on one in pass situations...unless you do this... or If he s unlockable why no sacks in the past 2 games? He was not being held on ever pass play. Thats like saying, IF Tom BRady is so great why did he have so many game through his career with no TD passes?
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Post by TEM on Dec 8, 2019 11:25:41 GMT -5
If he s unlockable why no sacks in the past 2 games? He was not being held on ever pass play. Not sure why you don't see his immense talent, nor the holding and double teams...he's a weak side end with immense power and incredible quickness...teams are sending doubles and are for sure holding most pass plays. Ohio State sends the tape of him being held every week...it's blatant. I will let this debate pass as I do not have time to argue insanely about the obvious...we will have to agree to disagree ...make that STRONGLY disagree on my end. The debate should be, IMHO, not if he is a great player...he is...but if offered a truck load of picks for this monster, would you trade back in the draft and stockpile. I have been doing that a lot on the GM version of the mock generator. The fact is we need an OT way more than a pass usher. If Thomas or Jackson are there . I think we need make the pick . We picked our future last year. If we do give him the protection he deserves . It will be a wasted pick. This draft, the way our OL is. Anything but an OT is a wasted luxury pick.
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Post by TEM on Dec 8, 2019 11:27:05 GMT -5
Another lackluster game against Wisconsin yesterday. Cole Van Lanen contained him. His draft stock went up a few points. Definitely a look with LC's 3rd round comp pick Lackluster? Maybe it wasnt what he did last time playing Wisconsin because they smartened up, but he still was making his presence felt. Coan was doing mostly 3 step drops and firing due to not wanting Young to wreck havoc again. Our pass rusher we currently have make theist presence felt also. You do make a pick on almost there. 2 weeks is a row he went against decent O-lines and came up with no hits. In the NFl the worst O-lines are better than the beast in the NCAA.
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Post by TEM on Dec 8, 2019 11:31:14 GMT -5
If he s unlockable why no sacks in the past 2 games? He was not being held on ever pass play. Thats like saying, IF Tom BRady is so great why did he have so many game through his career with no TD passes? No it is not. I am doing what any scout would do. Why the past 2 weeks was he contained. Because the O-lines had a way to stop the unstoppable. In the NFL that is every O-line.
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Post by Fletch842 on Dec 8, 2019 11:32:31 GMT -5
If he s unlockable why no sacks in the past 2 games? He was not being held on ever pass play. Not sure why you don't see his immense talent, nor the holding and double teams...he's a weak side end with immense power and incredible quickness...teams are sending doubles and are for sure holding most pass plays. Ohio State sends the tape of him being held every week...it's blatant. I will let this debate pass as I do not have time to argue insanely about the obvious...we will have to agree to disagree ...make that STRONGLY disagree on my end. The debate should be, IMHO, not if he is a great player...he is...but if offered a truck load of picks for this monster, would you trade back in the draft and stockpile. I have been doing that a lot on the GM version of the mock generator. Strongly consider it, depending on the pick package, considering our team has way too may holes. Could shore up a number of areas that way. May be the better decision overall, even though I think Young will be a stud.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 11:44:10 GMT -5
Not sure why you don't see his immense talent, nor the holding and double teams...he's a weak side end with immense power and incredible quickness...teams are sending doubles and are for sure holding most pass plays. Ohio State sends the tape of him being held every week...it's blatant. I will let this debate pass as I do not have time to argue insanely about the obvious...we will have to agree to disagree ...make that STRONGLY disagree on my end. The debate should be, IMHO, not if he is a great player...he is...but if offered a truck load of picks for this monster, would you trade back in the draft and stockpile. I have been doing that a lot on the GM version of the mock generator. The fact is we need an OT way more than a pass usher. If Thomas or Jackson are there . I think we need make the pick . We picked our future last year. If we do give him the protection he deserves . It will be a wasted pick. This draft, the way our OL is. Anything but an OT is a wasted luxury pick. I agree we have a huge need for OT...I sort of feel that's been what has been the biggest reason we have been a brutal team the last few centuries...but generational pass rushers will help the defense, which will also help the QB....and that has been the second reason this team has been brutal the...last few centuries...feels like it. This draft is VERY deep on a position that is needed in the league, OT...and very deep all over the offensive line. Last year we had a huge talent base of edge with a lot of closely rated prospects... this year?...Chase Young, and then the scouting grades drop a bit. I strongly feel if it comes down to Young or Thomas ... we will go Young, because of the way this draft plays out in it's strengths. If we are talking Alaric Jackson, he is having a meh year, and is as of now, dropping on the big board. Wirfs, his teammate, will, should, go higher than him. If you are in love with Alaric Jackson, he should be there in the second round....personally, I have other tackles rated a bit higher, but I'm not a super scout. Check out my mocks...I am trading back, getting Thomas, another tackle for the right side and one of the star instant starting centers coming out...another very deep group. I want the wall. I want the wall built quickly. I want the wall to do the job...and make our QB's life easier...with our thunder thighs 2 pick bouncing all outside and creating amazing eyes on Barkley, with linebackers and safeties locked onto the play action and lanes for Barkley, and have Jones with time for deeper routing and then dropping his dimes. All said...I will be quite happy with Andrew Thomas, even over Young...at pick 2. Pick 1? I'd take advantage of the Burrow sweepstakes and field all offers. But, I am not going to tear down Chase Young because I want a tackle though....I will be happy if we pick either, or trade down and accumulate picks...something rebuilding teams should be doing. All good...but Chase Young is a freak...I can't deny that.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 8, 2019 12:07:33 GMT -5
Another lackluster game against Wisconsin yesterday. Cole Van Lanen contained him. His draft stock went up a few points. Definitely a look with LC's 3rd round comp pick Six tackles, 1.5 for loss, two pass breakups.... and two quarterback hurries. I'll take that lackluster each and every game...especially when he absorbs two players blocking him, and a lot of holding that will eventually be called. He is unblockable one on one in pass situations...unless you do this... or Thought he had a much better game yesterday against Wisconsin then he did against Michigan, these 2 games is all I have had a chance to see I would think michigan is the outlier and wisconsin is the norm.
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Post by TCHOF on Dec 8, 2019 12:39:15 GMT -5
Not sure why you don't see his immense talent, nor the holding and double teams...he's a weak side end with immense power and incredible quickness...teams are sending doubles and are for sure holding most pass plays. Ohio State sends the tape of him being held every week...it's blatant. I will let this debate pass as I do not have time to argue insanely about the obvious...we will have to agree to disagree ...make that STRONGLY disagree on my end. The debate should be, IMHO, not if he is a great player...he is...but if offered a truck load of picks for this monster, would you trade back in the draft and stockpile. I have been doing that a lot on the GM version of the mock generator. The fact is we need an OT way more than a pass usher. If Thomas or Jackson are there . I think we need make the pick . We picked our future last year. If we do give him the protection he deserves . It will be a wasted pick. This draft, the way our OL is. Anything but an OT is a wasted luxury pick. Jackson?
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