|
Post by TCHOF on Dec 8, 2019 17:40:21 GMT -5
Not really proving any of your point....as your point is kind of dull, and pointless regarding the original point. The old now "point" of yours was...offensive lines can block any unblockable player, because Chase Young was blocked (and held) by the Wolverines, and in the NFL...they are all better, so he will always be blocked. I am not quite sure what's the point of that pointless point, but I shall point out that point is ...well, pointless. As with my Donald being blocked that day...a top 3 tech (not edge) interior pass rush freak. That point, took out your pointless point about NFL lines being able to block anybody. Donald was heralded coming out, but was a DT as a 3 tech. Nobody knew he was going to be better than Sapp....but woop, there it is. Too many points here... Remember projection...something stats don't always portray when scouting. Now, your new spinning away into another point, regarding Donald and Mack...oh, and Clowney. Actually, it proves my "point". If I wanted to spin, creating a new point in a pointless debate, it is there. Okay, what the hell, let's do this.... Clowney was taken first overall...because scouts had his immense abilities ranked the best. It's called grading players. Nothing earth shattering about it. Suggesting we can garner a pass rusher in a draft year where the grades of the pass rusher/edge is below awesome, and far below last years deep class of damage the QB players is kind of suggesting the exact same thing about our offensive tackles. Why not draft one in the 2nd round? Surely, you can see the flaw of this argument. As I already pointed out, this is a VERY deep class with offensive line, offensive tackle, guard and center. If we are to assume this is a deeper class, according to scouts and their grades, in the WR, OL and CB area...but not quite grading high, aside from Young, in the edge... why would your "point" about getting a top player such as offensive tackle in the second not be a better option? You suggested it...with the tornado spin away...we can get a pass rusher like the 5 pick LB Mack, or 13 pick 3 tech phone booth moves DT...Donald. Why not grab the player ALL scouts will have rated the highest, in Chase Young, and get an offensive tackle in the 2nd, or 3rd round?Say if we get the 2 pick. Burrow goes number 1 to the Bengals. We now look at our board, the NY Giants board. We have Chase Young, at a graded 8.0...for argument sake. Say, DE Yetur Gross-Matos from the land of thunder thighs is ranked with a 7.2. Derrick Brown, the great defensive tackle from Auburn is ranked 7.8. Andrew Thomas is a 7.7, and Prince Tega Wanogho running a 7.2. Now, I am not a scout, and do not know what the final, after playoffs, senior, combine, pro days will say...but say they all end up in that graded spot. Now, we take into consideration character, upside and of course, value of position. Now, we all enjoy confirming our belief in BPA...but are we really going to take Derrick Brown at 2? Will we take the Andrew Thomas pick, at a 7.7, over a perfect 8 Chase Young? Despite the fact both are in top team need, top positional value, and the best of their positions? We have the need for both positions, and being the draft is immensely deep at OL...would it NOT make sense, and use your point about a player gaining pro bowl status as an OT being gotten in rounds 2-3, versus the higher graded, higher ceiling position of value, and need? Point? Making points. Point is pointless, unless you point out all positions can be gotten in round 2. You certainly can't suggest I am proving your point regarding a Mack at 5, a Clowney at 1, and Donald, a DT at 13...by suggesting we can get a great pass rusher in round 2...that does not even match BTW...34 vs 1,5, 13??...but let's roll with it. So, why can't we not take a Thomas at 2?...take Young, and then simply get a stud OT in the second round? Is that only good for edge players? I tend to believe OT's are picked more mid round, with success, vs top edge rushers...especially in this weak edge class compared to last year. Your point is for any and all players, in any position. We can find any player of talent in later rounds...but scouts tend to adhere to their grades...it's how big boards are set up. Now, if you are basing the wanting the O tackle at 2, and have decided to blast Young for a sackless game, working back at the OT you want to draft, by trying to suggest Chase Young is "overrated", well...that is wrong. If you sincerely believe he has flaws, please point them out...as a scout would. I can at least listen to your "point", if you simply believe Chase Young is overrated. I sense, you simply want the tackle on offense, so Young is in the way. What in your tape review suggests he will fail in the next level? I will ask you look at my original point regarding your point, the Donald point...players sometimes, for various reasons...have games that they don't put up the numbers they did the week or two before. Coaching usually is the reason...and has the most effect on neutralizing a player, but usually at the expense of weakening another area. Maybe the blocker is simply on that game, and pass rusher is off...not in the Chase Young case though against the Badgers. BTW... Buckeyes won both games, one a complete blowout. All players on the DL had sacks...think that had nothing to do with the Chasing of Young by coaching and bodies? IMHO...It's all in who you would rather have... Chase Young and Prince Tega Wanogho vs Andrew Thomas and Terrell Lewis. As said, I am for Andrew Thomas, but I don't see the 3 down edge player at pick 34 for us. Specialists? Pass rush only players? Yeah, I see some of that. And what we run, a 3-4 or 4-3, does have a matter of whom we "should" pick...but since when has that stopped teams from drafting the best pass rusher, and BPA? Hell, we draft press corners in zone defenses, and power blockers with east west running backs, and a head coach who runs zone blocking schemes...these guys will all be out of here in 2 years anyway....haha, yeah, no confidence DG gets this thing turned around. Suggesting we can garner a pass rusher in a drat the exact same thing about our offensive tackles. Why not draft one in the 2nd round? Because we drafted a QB with our first pick. Protecting him should be the GM's first priority. The priority should be the Best OT on the board. VERY deep class with offensive line It is also a very deep class of edge rushers. You suggested it...with the tornado spin away...we can get a pass rusher like the 5 pick LB Mack, or 13 pick 3 tech phone booth moves DT...Donald. Why not grab the player ALL scouts will have rated the highest, in Chase Young, and get an offensive tackle in the 2nd, or 3rd round?Theses are the same scouts the rated Haskins above DJ. I do not take much stock in those intellects. I never said we can get a rusher like Mack. I Said a we can get productive pass rusher in the 2nd or 3rd round. Now, if you are basing the wanting the O tackle at 2, and have decided to blast Young for a sackless game.Not at all. I have wanted an OT with our first pick for the past 2 drafts Mike McGlinchey in 17 and Jonah Williams last year. We have not drafted an RT our biggest ongoing problem It has been ignored as if it would go away on its own. It is still there and has been since 2013. I wonder why? The difference is I want the problem addressed . Once and for all. The rest of you want to keep kicking the can down the road. One of the biggest reasons we can't win more is, we cannot run the ball or keep the QB upright. Drafting the running back did not keep the Qb upright . Drafting the mobile Quarter back did not keep the QB upright I can assure you drafting an DE will certainly not contribute to fixing our O-line problems. Picking by position no matter who is on the board is the surest way to have a bad draft.
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Dec 8, 2019 17:42:16 GMT -5
Suggesting we can garner a pass rusher in a drat the exact same thing about our offensive tackles. Why not draft one in the 2nd round? Because we drafted a QB with our first pick. Protecting him should be the GM's first priority. The priority should be the Best OT on the board. VERY deep class with offensive line It is also a very deep class of edge rushers. You suggested it...with the tornado spin away...we can get a pass rusher like the 5 pick LB Mack, or 13 pick 3 tech phone booth moves DT...Donald. Why not grab the player ALL scouts will have rated the highest, in Chase Young, and get an offensive tackle in the 2nd, or 3rd round?Theses are the same scouts the rated Haskins above DJ. I do not take much stock in those intellects. I never said we can get a rusher like Mack. I Said a we can get productive pass rusher in the 2nd or 3rd round. Now, if you are basing the wanting the O tackle at 2, and have decided to blast Young for a sackless game.Not at all. I have wanted an OT with our first pick for the past 2 drafts Mike McGlinchey in 17 and Jonah Williams last year. We have not drafted an RT our biggest ongoing problem It has been ignored as if it would go away on its own. It is still there and has been since 2013. I wonder why? The difference is I want the problem addressed . Once and for all. The rest of you want to keep kicking the can down the road. One of the biggest reasons we can't win more is, we cannot run the ball or keep the QB upright. Drafting the running back did not keep the Qb upright . Drafting the mobile Quarter back did not keep the QB upright I can assure you drafting an DE will certainly not contribute to fixing our O-line problems. Picking by position no matter who is on the board is the surest way to have a bad draft. So keep ignoring the blaring issue, and hope at one point while kicking the can it gets lost. There is no way picking Andrew Thomas or Austin Jackson is as you say the surest way to have a bad draft. They are both interchangeable on who is the better OT.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 17:47:25 GMT -5
Not really proving any of your point....as your point is kind of dull, and pointless regarding the original point. The old now "point" of yours was...offensive lines can block any unblockable player, because Chase Young was blocked (and held) by the Wolverines, and in the NFL...they are all better, so he will always be blocked. I am not quite sure what's the point of that pointless point, but I shall point out that point is ...well, pointless. As with my Donald being blocked that day...a top 3 tech (not edge) interior pass rush freak. That point, took out your pointless point about NFL lines being able to block anybody. Donald was heralded coming out, but was a DT as a 3 tech. Nobody knew he was going to be better than Sapp....but woop, there it is. Too many points here... Remember projection...something stats don't always portray when scouting. Now, your new spinning away into another point, regarding Donald and Mack...oh, and Clowney. Actually, it proves my "point". If I wanted to spin, creating a new point in a pointless debate, it is there. Okay, what the hell, let's do this.... Clowney was taken first overall...because scouts had his immense abilities ranked the best. It's called grading players. Nothing earth shattering about it. Suggesting we can garner a pass rusher in a draft year where the grades of the pass rusher/edge is below awesome, and far below last years deep class of damage the QB players is kind of suggesting the exact same thing about our offensive tackles. Why not draft one in the 2nd round? Surely, you can see the flaw of this argument. As I already pointed out, this is a VERY deep class with offensive line, offensive tackle, guard and center. If we are to assume this is a deeper class, according to scouts and their grades, in the WR, OL and CB area...but not quite grading high, aside from Young, in the edge... why would your "point" about getting a top player such as offensive tackle in the second not be a better option? You suggested it...with the tornado spin away...we can get a pass rusher like the 5 pick LB Mack, or 13 pick 3 tech phone booth moves DT...Donald. Why not grab the player ALL scouts will have rated the highest, in Chase Young, and get an offensive tackle in the 2nd, or 3rd round?Say if we get the 2 pick. Burrow goes number 1 to the Bengals. We now look at our board, the NY Giants board. We have Chase Young, at a graded 8.0...for argument sake. Say, DE Yetur Gross-Matos from the land of thunder thighs is ranked with a 7.2. Derrick Brown, the great defensive tackle from Auburn is ranked 7.8. Andrew Thomas is a 7.7, and Prince Tega Wanogho running a 7.2. Now, I am not a scout, and do not know what the final, after playoffs, senior, combine, pro days will say...but say they all end up in that graded spot. Now, we take into consideration character, upside and of course, value of position. Now, we all enjoy confirming our belief in BPA...but are we really going to take Derrick Brown at 2? Will we take the Andrew Thomas pick, at a 7.7, over a perfect 8 Chase Young? Despite the fact both are in top team need, top positional value, and the best of their positions? We have the need for both positions, and being the draft is immensely deep at OL...would it NOT make sense, and use your point about a player gaining pro bowl status as an OT being gotten in rounds 2-3, versus the higher graded, higher ceiling position of value, and need? Point? Making points. Point is pointless, unless you point out all positions can be gotten in round 2. You certainly can't suggest I am proving your point regarding a Mack at 5, a Clowney at 1, and Donald, a DT at 13...by suggesting we can get a great pass rusher in round 2...that does not even match BTW...34 vs 1,5, 13??...but let's roll with it. So, why can't we not take a Thomas at 2?...take Young, and then simply get a stud OT in the second round? Is that only good for edge players? I tend to believe OT's are picked more mid round, with success, vs top edge rushers...especially in this weak edge class compared to last year. Your point is for any and all players, in any position. We can find any player of talent in later rounds...but scouts tend to adhere to their grades...it's how big boards are set up. Now, if you are basing the wanting the O tackle at 2, and have decided to blast Young for a sackless game, working back at the OT you want to draft, by trying to suggest Chase Young is "overrated", well...that is wrong. If you sincerely believe he has flaws, please point them out...as a scout would. I can at least listen to your "point", if you simply believe Chase Young is overrated. I sense, you simply want the tackle on offense, so Young is in the way. What in your tape review suggests he will fail in the next level? I will ask you look at my original point regarding your point, the Donald point...players sometimes, for various reasons...have games that they don't put up the numbers they did the week or two before. Coaching usually is the reason...and has the most effect on neutralizing a player, but usually at the expense of weakening another area. Maybe the blocker is simply on that game, and pass rusher is off...not in the Chase Young case though against the Badgers. BTW... Buckeyes won both games, one a complete blowout. All players on the DL had sacks...think that had nothing to do with the Chasing of Young by coaching and bodies? IMHO...It's all in who you would rather have... Chase Young and Prince Tega Wanogho vs Andrew Thomas and Terrell Lewis. As said, I am for Andrew Thomas, but I don't see the 3 down edge player at pick 34 for us. Specialists? Pass rush only players? Yeah, I see some of that. And what we run, a 3-4 or 4-3, does have a matter of whom we "should" pick...but since when has that stopped teams from drafting the best pass rusher, and BPA? Hell, we draft press corners in zone defenses, and power blockers with east west running backs, and a head coach who runs zone blocking schemes...these guys will all be out of here in 2 years anyway....haha, yeah, no confidence DG gets this thing turned around. Suggesting we can garner a pass rusher in a drat the exact same thing about our offensive tackles. Why not draft one in the 2nd round? Because we drafted a QB with our first pick. Protecting him should be the GM's first priority. The priority should be the Best OT on the board. VERY deep class with offensive line It is also a very deep class of edge rushers. You suggested it...with the tornado spin away...we can get a pass rusher like the 5 pick LB Mack, or 13 pick 3 tech phone booth moves DT...Donald. Why not grab the player ALL scouts will have rated the highest, in Chase Young, and get an offensive tackle in the 2nd, or 3rd round?Theses are the same scouts the rated Haskins above DJ. I do not take much stock in those intellects. I never said we can get a rusher like Mack. I Said a we can get productive pass rusher in the 2nd or 3rd round. Now, if you are basing the wanting the O tackle at 2, and have decided to blast Young for a sackless game.Not at all. I have wanted an OT with our first pick for the past 2 drafts Mike McGlinchey in 17 and Jonah Williams last year. We have not drafted an RT our biggest ongoing problem It has been ignored as if it would go away on its own. It is still there and has been since 2013. I wonder why? The difference is I want the problem addressed . Once and for all. The rest of you want to keep kicking the can down the road. One of the biggest reasons we can't win more is, we cannot run the ball or keep the QB upright. Drafting the running back did not keep the Qb upright . Drafting the mobile Quarter back did not keep the QB upright I can assure you drafting an DE will certainly not contribute to fixing our O-line problems. My point stands tall, and with merit You are having a tantrum at the wrong guy...my mock drafts speak for themselves. You have just admitted, on the board, you want to draft for need, a tackle...thus proving you simply want to character smear Chase Young for this need My points were all fair and reasonable...I have no problems drafting a OT. I do however, believe Chase Young is a higher graded prospect, and would not be upset if we took him vs Thomas. Check out my mocks...been getting Thomas after trading out of Chase Young...not that I believe any real GM would be expecting Thomas to be there at 8-10.
|
|
|
Post by Kruunch on Dec 8, 2019 17:49:28 GMT -5
Picking by position no matter who is on the board is the surest way to have a bad draft. So keep ignoring the blaring issue, and hope at one point while kicking the can it gets lost. We have a lot of glaring issues. But the one that rings the loudest has to be our lack of getting after the QB consistently. It's been proven time and time again in this league if you can attack the QB and make him rush his passes and create sacks you win more than you lose. That's why Chase Young has to be the pick if he's available. We can nitpick how he played against Michigan and find any holes in his game if we dissect his game enough. Point is he's exactly what we need on our defense. A young player who creates havoc at the line of scrimmage. A player I think will have a nice career if used properly. The tackle from Georgia is a safe pick and would start immediately for us. But, give me Young everyday of the week and twice on Sundays.
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Dec 8, 2019 17:51:41 GMT -5
So keep ignoring the blaring issue, and hope at one point while kicking the can it gets lost. We have a lot of glaring issues. But the one that rings the loudest has to be our lack of getting after the QB consistently. It's been proven time and time again in this league if you can attack the QB and make him rush his passes and create sacks you win more than you lose. That's why Chase Young has to be the pick if he's available. We can nitpick how he played against Michigan and find any holes in his game if we dissect it game enough. Point is he's exactly what we need on our defense. A young player who creates havoc at the line of scrimmage. A player I think will have a nice career if used properly. The tackle from Georgia I said a safe pick and would start immediately for us. But, give me Young everyday of the week and twice on Sundays. I will say it again, Protecting the QB should be Numero Uno in stature.
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Dec 8, 2019 17:54:56 GMT -5
Suggesting we can garner a pass rusher in a drat the exact same thing about our offensive tackles. Why not draft one in the 2nd round? Because we drafted a QB with our first pick. Protecting him should be the GM's first priority. The priority should be the Best OT on the board. VERY deep class with offensive line It is also a very deep class of edge rushers. You suggested it...with the tornado spin away...we can get a pass rusher like the 5 pick LB Mack, or 13 pick 3 tech phone booth moves DT...Donald. Why not grab the player ALL scouts will have rated the highest, in Chase Young, and get an offensive tackle in the 2nd, or 3rd round?Theses are the same scouts the rated Haskins above DJ. I do not take much stock in those intellects. I never said we can get a rusher like Mack. I Said a we can get productive pass rusher in the 2nd or 3rd round. Now, if you are basing the wanting the O tackle at 2, and have decided to blast Young for a sackless game.Not at all. I have wanted an OT with our first pick for the past 2 drafts Mike McGlinchey in 17 and Jonah Williams last year. We have not drafted an RT our biggest ongoing problem It has been ignored as if it would go away on its own. It is still there and has been since 2013. I wonder why? The difference is I want the problem addressed . Once and for all. The rest of you want to keep kicking the can down the road. One of the biggest reasons we can't win more is, we cannot run the ball or keep the QB upright. Drafting the running back did not keep the Qb upright . Drafting the mobile Quarter back did not keep the QB upright I can assure you drafting an DE will certainly not contribute to fixing our O-line problems. My point stands tall, and with merit You are having a tantrum at the wrong guy...my mock drafts speak for themselves. You have just admitted, on the board, you want to draft for need, a tackle...thus proving you simply want to character smear Chase Young for this need My points were all fair and reasonable...I have no problems drafting a OT. I do however, believe Chase Young is a higher graded prospect, and would not be upset if we took him vs Thomas. Check out my mocks...been getting Thomas after trading out of Chase Young...not that I believe any real GM would be expecting Thomas to be there at 8-10. You confuse a tantrum with stating . If I were a GM and wanted my legacy : "the QB I picked" protected. An edge rusher does not do that. I think him and Jackson will go within the top 6 picks.
|
|
|
Post by Kruunch on Dec 8, 2019 17:58:08 GMT -5
We have a lot of glaring issues. But the one that rings the loudest has to be our lack of getting after the QB consistently. It's been proven time and time again in this league if you can attack the QB and make him rush his passes and create sacks you win more than you lose. That's why Chase Young has to be the pick if he's available. We can nitpick how he played against Michigan and find any holes in his game if we dissect it game enough. Point is he's exactly what we need on our defense. A young player who creates havoc at the line of scrimmage. A player I think will have a nice career if used properly. The tackle from Georgia I said a safe pick and would start immediately for us. But, give me Young everyday of the week and twice on Sundays. I will say it again, Protecting the QB should be Numero Uno in stature. You can make a fair argument for an edge rusher as well. If we have the 2nd spot and we select the tackle the team after us will thank their lucky stars we didn't select Chase Young. You think Gettleman got it bad after picking Jones? Watch what happens if he passes on Young. He will get burned at the stake.. And deservingly so.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 18:02:04 GMT -5
My point stands tall, and with merit You are having a tantrum at the wrong guy...my mock drafts speak for themselves. You have just admitted, on the board, you want to draft for need, a tackle...thus proving you simply want to character smear Chase Young for this need My points were all fair and reasonable...I have no problems drafting a OT. I do however, believe Chase Young is a higher graded prospect, and would not be upset if we took him vs Thomas. Check out my mocks...been getting Thomas after trading out of Chase Young...not that I believe any real GM would be expecting Thomas to be there at 8-10. You confuse a tantrum with stating . If I were a GM and wanted my legacy : "the QB I picked" protected. An edge rusher does not do that. I think him and Jackson will go within the top 6 picks. ...and...if we have some offensive tackles graded similar, at around the 8-12 spot, and not too much a below the generational edge called young, trade off Chase Young, and back. If we have pick 2, and Chase Young AND Andrew Thomas are graded even, by our scouts...we shall go Thomas...maybe. I don't see them even...Young is and will be the better graded player. IMHO...soon to see when the path...to the draft...begins. But, with the amount of tackles this year, and the level of awesomeness and grade Chase Young will get...I'd suggest STILL (stating) awaiting till round two to acquire the tackle stud. What's your views on watching Wirfs?
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Dec 8, 2019 18:05:33 GMT -5
I will say it again, Protecting the QB should be Numero Uno in stature. You can make a fair argument for an edge rusher as well. If we have the 2nd spot and we select the tackle the team after us will thank their lucky stars we didn't select Chase Young. You think Gettleman got it bad after picking Jones? Watch what happens if he passes on Young. He will get burned at the stake.. And deservingly so. I do not believe so. If the GM felt protecting his investment in the QB he picked to be the franchise going forward would argue that was the wrong pick is an idiot and instantly dissolve any credibility. IMO: it is the most logical pick. But as I said the difference between fans and GMs . A GM must have the balls to defy logic. He may very well take Young, at the same time shooting himself in the foot by not addressing the need s of the QB.
|
|
|
Post by Kruunch on Dec 8, 2019 18:08:26 GMT -5
You can make a fair argument for an edge rusher as well. If we have the 2nd spot and we select the tackle the team after us will thank their lucky stars we didn't select Chase Young. You think Gettleman got it bad after picking Jones? Watch what happens if he passes on Young. He will get burned at the stake.. And deservingly so. I do not believe so. If the GM felt protecting his investment in the QB he picked to be the franchise going forward would argue that was the wrong pick is an idiot and instantly dissolve any credibility. IMO: it is the most logical pick. But as I said the difference between fans and GMs . A GM must have the balls to defy logic. He may very well take Young, at the same time shooting himself in the foot by not addressing the need s of the QB. Screw his investment. Make the team better. That should be his number 1 priority.. And selecting Chase Young is a start, then address the offensive line again in the draft.
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Dec 8, 2019 18:11:00 GMT -5
You confuse a tantrum with stating . If I were a GM and wanted my legacy : "the QB I picked" protected. An edge rusher does not do that. I think him and Jackson will go within the top 6 picks. ...and...if we have some offensive tackles graded similar, at around the 8-12 spot, and not too much a below the generational edge called young, trade off Chase Young, and back. If we have pick 2, and Chase Young AND Andrew Thomas are graded even, by our scouts...we shall go Thomas...maybe. I don't see them even...Young is and will be the better graded player. IMHO...soon to see when the path...to the draft...begins. But, with the amount of tackles this year, and the level of awesomeness and grade Chase Young will get...I'd suggest STILL (stating) awaiting till round two to acquire the tackle stud. What's your views on watching Wirfs? If I had my way which is unrealistic Round 1 OT Round 2 OT Round 3 Center.
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Dec 8, 2019 18:12:12 GMT -5
I do not believe so. If the GM felt protecting his investment in the QB he picked to be the franchise going forward would argue that was the wrong pick is an idiot and instantly dissolve any credibility. IMO: it is the most logical pick. But as I said the difference between fans and GMs . A GM must have the balls to defy logic. He may very well take Young, at the same time shooting himself in the foot by not addressing the need s of the QB. Screw his investment. Make the team better. That should be his number 1 priority.. And selecting Chase Young is a start, then address the offensive line again in the draft. I can make the argument taking an OT does both . Makes the team better and keeps his investment viable.
|
|
|
Post by TCHOF on Dec 8, 2019 18:50:24 GMT -5
Picking by position no matter who is on the board is the surest way to have a bad draft. So keep ignoring the blaring issue, and hope at one point while kicking the can it gets lost. There is no way picking Andrew Thomas or Austin Jackson is as you say the surest way to have a bad draft. They are both interchangeable on who is the better OT. Jackson is not even the second best OT in the draft. There is no chance in hell that we would take him over Chase Young.
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Dec 8, 2019 19:44:57 GMT -5
So keep ignoring the blaring issue, and hope at one point while kicking the can it gets lost. There is no way picking Andrew Thomas or Austin Jackson is as you say the surest way to have a bad draft. They are both interchangeable on who is the better OT. Jackson is not even the second best OT in the draft. There is no chance in hell that we would take him over Chase Young. walterfootball.com/draft2020OT.php
|
|
|
Post by TCHOF on Dec 8, 2019 19:52:04 GMT -5
Walter Football? Dude ....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 20:09:59 GMT -5
walterfootball.com/draft2020DE.php12 Curtis Weaver*, DE, Boise State Height: 6-3. Weight: 266. Projected 40 Time: 4.70. Projected Round (2020): 3-5.11/16/19: Weaver has been very good for Boise State with 40 tackles, 12.5 sacks, a pass defended and forced fumble. Team sources say that Weaver is a good college player who is a try-hard guy, but he has physical limitations for the NFL.6/29/19: In 2018, Weaver had 43 tackles with 15 tackles for a loss, 9.5 sacks and one forced fumble. He broke out in 2017 as a redshirt freshman and recorded 11 sacks, 33 tackles, two passes broken up and a forced fumble on the year. With Weaver's size and body type, he might fit best as a 3-4 outside linebacker. I don't use Walter's big board...but it seems you DO TEM.... Why would we take you seriously when you use it FOR your argument on some riser with potential on the tackle spot, but when you suggest Weaver as 2, you fail to use it's 3-5 round ranking...and 12th best DE? I'm beginning to believe you enjoy arguing to hear yourself, as you have been so wrong about everything you have just posted, I am surprised at you. Sadly, I am in the get offensive line as much as possible, but your posts sadden me. You may have the last word, as I am sure it will not be apologizing and admitting you are wrong....just more Chase Young sucks because I want any OT at 2 nonsense.
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Dec 8, 2019 20:17:16 GMT -5
walterfootball.com/draft2020DE.php12 Curtis Weaver*, DE, Boise State Height: 6-3. Weight: 266. Projected 40 Time: 4.70. Projected Round (2020): 3-5.11/16/19: Weaver has been very good for Boise State with 40 tackles, 12.5 sacks, a pass defended and forced fumble. Team sources say that Weaver is a good college player who is a try-hard guy, but he has physical limitations for the NFL.6/29/19: In 2018, Weaver had 43 tackles with 15 tackles for a loss, 9.5 sacks and one forced fumble. He broke out in 2017 as a redshirt freshman and recorded 11 sacks, 33 tackles, two passes broken up and a forced fumble on the year. With Weaver's size and body type, he might fit best as a 3-4 outside linebacker. I don't use Walter's big board...but it seems you DO TEM.... Why would we take you seriously when you use it FOR your argument on some riser with potential on the tackle spot, but when you suggest Weaver as 2, you fail to use it's 3-5 round ranking...and 12th best DE? I'm beginning to believe you enjoy arguing to hear yourself, as you have been so wrong about everything you have just posted, I am surprised at you. Sadly, I am in the get offensive line as much as possible, but your posts sadden me. You may have the last word, as I am sure it will not be apologizing and admitting you are wrong....just more Chase Young sucks because I want any OT at 2 nonsense. How well he has played this year . He is going to go in the 2nd round. He actually plays 3-4 OLB. When did I ever say Young sucked or implied it? If you want any credibility. Show me where I quoted it? you keep saying it and accusing me off it. At least have the decadence of proving it If you cannot, just stop with the misquoting. I do not do that to you. If anyone should apologize it is you for putting words in my views I never stated. This is what I said about young I just came up with some questions any good scout would have. Anyone who blindly thinks a top 10 pick has no questionability is not objective.
|
|
|
Post by Parademon1 on Dec 8, 2019 20:27:18 GMT -5
Fixing both sides of the trenches is a must in the draft & via FA. But it starts by getting Young #1, then best OT #2 then best center #3, top speed WR at #4, then go after top FA LBers & Olmen.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Dec 8, 2019 20:30:49 GMT -5
walterfootball.com/draft2020DE.php12 Curtis Weaver*, DE, Boise State Height: 6-3. Weight: 266. Projected 40 Time: 4.70. Projected Round (2020): 3-5.11/16/19: Weaver has been very good for Boise State with 40 tackles, 12.5 sacks, a pass defended and forced fumble. Team sources say that Weaver is a good college player who is a try-hard guy, but he has physical limitations for the NFL.6/29/19: In 2018, Weaver had 43 tackles with 15 tackles for a loss, 9.5 sacks and one forced fumble. He broke out in 2017 as a redshirt freshman and recorded 11 sacks, 33 tackles, two passes broken up and a forced fumble on the year. With Weaver's size and body type, he might fit best as a 3-4 outside linebacker. I don't use Walter's big board...but it seems you DO TEM.... Why would we take you seriously when you use it FOR your argument on some riser with potential on the tackle spot, but when you suggest Weaver as 2, you fail to use it's 3-5 round ranking...and 12th best DE? I'm beginning to believe you enjoy arguing to hear yourself, as you have been so wrong about everything you have just posted, I am surprised at you. Sadly, I am in the get offensive line as much as possible, but your posts sadden me. You may have the last word, as I am sure it will not be apologizing and admitting you are wrong....just more Chase Young sucks because I want any OT at 2 nonsense. How well he has played this year . He is going to go in the 2nd round. Wish I had a crystal ball like you. The draft can surprise you sometimes. What wont surprise me is when Chase Young gets called in the top 3.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Dec 8, 2019 20:32:33 GMT -5
Fixing both sides of the trenches is a must in the draft & via FA. But it starts by getting Young #1, then best OT #2 then best center #3, top speed WR at #4, then go after top FA LBers & Olmen. I wouldnt be shocked or distraught if we get Thomas with our first pick. We need OTs. But Im not about to call Chase Young over hyped because he didnt get sacks the last 2 games lol
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Dec 8, 2019 20:33:26 GMT -5
How well he has played this year . He is going to go in the 2nd round. Wish I had a crystal ball like you. The draft can surprise you sometimes. What wont surprise me is when Chase Young gets called in the top 3. I agree I just think an OT is a bigger priority.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 20:41:40 GMT -5
Fixing both sides of the trenches is a must in the draft & via FA. But it starts by getting Young #1, then best OT #2 then best center #3, top speed WR at #4, then go after top FA LBers & Olmen. I wouldnt be shocked or distraught if we get Thomas with our first pick. We need OTs. But Im not about to call Chase Young over hyped because he didnt get sacks the last 2 games lol This... I believe I have mocked Thomas nearly every draft I have played in that mock thread...now that we are at pick 2 though, it creates that Young vs Thomas debate. I do believe Young is the better prospect, by how much is up for debate...but would listen to as many offers as I can for moving back and still go OT a few picks later in the draft, and do as TEM says, go RT and Center with the added picks, as these are deep positions. I don't see much in the way of pass rush supreme beings after Young IMHO...at least worthy of a 34 pick. We still have 4 games to go, 2 against the Dolphins and Redskins...we could be pick 5 before we know it
|
|
|
Post by Parademon1 on Dec 8, 2019 21:53:05 GMT -5
I wouldnt be shocked or distraught if we get Thomas with our first pick. We need OTs. But Im not about to call Chase Young over hyped because he didnt get sacks the last 2 games lol This... I believe I have mocked Thomas nearly every draft I have played in that mock thread...now that we are at pick 2 though, it creates that Young vs Thomas debate. I do believe Young is the better prospect, by how much is up for debate...but would listen to as many offers as I can for moving back and still go OT a few picks later in the draft, and do as TEM says, go RT and Center with the added picks, as these are deep positions. I don't see much in the way of pass rush supreme beings after Young IMHO...at least worthy of a 34 pick. We still have 4 games to go, 2 against the Dolphins and Redskins...we could be pick 5 before we know it Skins gave GB a tougher game than we did & Fish almost came back on the Jets. Both they & their fan base have us as an easy W. 4 close competitive losses is what I'm praying for. There is not a single benefit to be gained by winning a single game the rest of the yr. Not....a...one...!
|
|
|
Post by Fletch842 on Dec 9, 2019 8:23:09 GMT -5
I wouldnt be shocked or distraught if we get Thomas with our first pick. We need OTs. But Im not about to call Chase Young over hyped because he didnt get sacks the last 2 games lol This... I believe I have mocked Thomas nearly every draft I have played in that mock thread...now that we are at pick 2 though, it creates that Young vs Thomas debate. I do believe Young is the better prospect, by how much is up for debate...but would listen to as many offers as I can for moving back and still go OT a few picks later in the draft, and do as TEM says, go RT and Center with the added picks, as these are deep positions. I don't see much in the way of pass rush supreme beings after Young IMHO...at least worthy of a 34 pick. We still have 4 games to go, 2 against the Dolphins and Redskins...we could be pick 5 before we know it I think Young should be our pick if he is available (of course a lot can change between now and the draft), but if we took Thomas over him, I would totally understand. Outside of a trade down for a bevy of picks, he's the only other guy I would consider.
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Dec 9, 2019 10:40:27 GMT -5
what more do people need to see from Shurmur that would help make up their minds to keep him, I think people are just looking for a way to keep him when they should be looking for his replacement... IMO, ownership will be looking for an excuse to keep him. wouldn't you think ownership is as tired of this shit show as we are and would be looking for a way to improve this mess...
|
|
|
Post by DandyDon on Dec 9, 2019 10:52:52 GMT -5
IMO, ownership will be looking for an excuse to keep him. wouldn't you think ownership is as tired of this shit show as we are and would be looking for a way to improve this mess... I'm sure they are tired of it and want it to improve But they are also the ones who picked Shurmur, and firing him would make them look bad. And this is coming off them looking like fools with the whole McAdoo/Reese/Eli situation. The only question is do they think firing their second HC in a row after 2 years is going to make them look more foolish than keeping him and having next year look just like the past 2 years. IMO, they know they have a lot of cap space and a high draft pick next year and are banking on this team being a lot better, regardless of who is coaching the team. If Shurmur loses out, I think they have to fire him. But if they win a couple of the last games, they will use it as an excuse to keep him, and someone else (the DC?) will be a sacrificial firing.
|
|
|
Post by Kase1 on Dec 9, 2019 11:53:46 GMT -5
Not sure why you don't see his immense talent, nor the holding and double teams...he's a weak side end with immense power and incredible quickness...teams are sending doubles and are for sure holding most pass plays. Ohio State sends the tape of him being held every week...it's blatant. I will let this debate pass as I do not have time to argue insanely about the obvious...we will have to agree to disagree ...make that STRONGLY disagree on my end. The debate should be, IMHO, not if he is a great player...he is...but if offered a truck load of picks for this monster, would you trade back in the draft and stockpile. I have been doing that a lot on the GM version of the mock generator. The fact is we need an OT way more than a pass usher. If Thomas or Jackson are there . I think we need make the pick . We picked our future last year. If we do give him the protection he deserves . It will be a wasted pick. This draft, the way our OL is. Anything but an OT is a wasted luxury pick. I agree that OT is more of a need than a pass rusher, but not by much. Where I DO disagree is that Thomas and Jackson are interchangeable. Thomas is 1 of the best OT prospects to come out since Joe Thomas, Jackson is a 2nd round prospect at best. Jackson doesnt have the strength, he's a lunger, he cant really hold his blocks for long, doesnt really 'drop the anchor' as they say. If we had a great OL coach who could bring out the best in him, then maybe id be more inclined to look at Jackson. If we go OT in the 1st its gotta be Thomas or trade down and take Wrifs
|
|
|
Post by Kase1 on Dec 9, 2019 11:59:32 GMT -5
I agree we have a huge need for OT...I sort of feel that's been what has been the biggest reason we have been a brutal team the last few centuries...but generational pass rushers will help the defense, which will also help the QB....and that has been the second reason this team has been brutal the...last few centuries...feels like it. This draft is VERY deep on a position that is needed in the league, OT...and very deep all over the offensive line. Last year we had a huge talent base of edge with a lot of closely rated prospects... this year?...Chase Young, and then the scouting grades drop a bit. I strongly feel if it comes down to Young or Thomas ... we will go Young, because of the way this draft plays out in it's strengths. If we are talking Alaric Jackson, he is having a meh year, and is as of now, dropping on the big board. Wirfs, his teammate, will, should, go higher than him. If you are in love with Alaric Jackson, he should be there in the second round....personally, I have other tackles rated a bit higher, but I'm not a super scout. Check out my mocks...I am trading back, getting Thomas, another tackle for the right side and one of the star instant starting centers coming out...another very deep group. I want the wall. I want the wall built quickly. I want the wall to do the job...and make our QB's life easier...with our thunder thighs 2 pick bouncing all outside and creating amazing eyes on Barkley, and linebackers and safeties locked onto the play action, and watch Jones have time for deeper routing and dropping dimes. All said...I will be quite happy with Andrew Thomas, even over Young...at pick 2. Pick 1? I'd take advantage of the Burrow sweepstakes and field all offers. But, I am not going to tear down Chase Young because I want a tackle though....I will be happy if we pick either, or trade down and accumulate picks...something rebuilding teams should be doing. All good...but Chase Young is a freak...I can't deny that. Last year it was Nick Bosa / Josh Allen in the 18 draft. It was Myles Garrett . In 17 it was Bradley Chubb. In 16 it was Joey Bosa. All good top of the Draft DEs/ OLBs and at the time a must pick if there player. There will be on next year as well. Not to mention. This is a stacked draft for pass rushers. Curtis Weaver Terrell Lewis Jon Greenard Kenny Willekes Jabari Zuniga Khalid Kareem Nick Coe All 2nd 3rd round picks There's also Yetur Gross-Matos and K'Lavon Chaisson who could both be there in the 2nd. Alton Robinson Tipa Galea'i Bradlee Anae Big Kat Bryant All guys who would be there in the later rounds who are OOZING with talent
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Dec 9, 2019 12:55:03 GMT -5
Last year it was Nick Bosa / Josh Allen in the 18 draft. It was Myles Garrett . In 17 it was Bradley Chubb. In 16 it was Joey Bosa. All good top of the Draft DEs/ OLBs and at the time a must pick if there player. There will be on next year as well. Not to mention. This is a stacked draft for pass rushers. Curtis Weaver Terrell Lewis Jon Greenard Kenny Willekes Jabari Zuniga Khalid Kareem Nick Coe All 2nd 3rd round picks There's also Yetur Gross-Matos and K'Lavon Chaisson who could both be there in the 2nd. Alton Robinson Tipa Galea'i Bradlee Anae Big Kat Bryant All guys who would be there in the later rounds who are OOZING with talent Chaisson has been ny 2md favorite edge guy the entire process and seemingly is already a 1sr round prospect now He actually could end up rising to the point where a trade back to 8-10 would he value for him. I might try this one (strategically reach doing this)and get a boatload of picks. Yatur is a bad fit for us (as is Espensia)
|
|
|
Post by Kase1 on Dec 9, 2019 13:03:35 GMT -5
There's also Yetur Gross-Matos and K'Lavon Chaisson who could both be there in the 2nd. Alton Robinson Tipa Galea'i Bradlee Anae Big Kat Bryant All guys who would be there in the later rounds who are OOZING with talent Chaisson has been ny 2md favorite edge guy the entire process and seemingly is already a 1sr round prospect now He actually could end up rising to the point where a trade back to 8-10 would he value for him. I might try this one (strategically reach doing this)and get a boatload of picks. Yatur is a bad fit for us (as is Espensia) I agree about Epensa, but why do you feel that way about Gross-Matos??
|
|