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Post by TheAnalyst on Feb 7, 2020 16:41:56 GMT -5
is coming soon....
And like the Astros players, the Red Sox players were given immunity for their cheating.
With Cora already fired, and a new GM, how does MLB punish Boston? Loss of draft picks and money like Houston?
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Post by TheAnalyst on Feb 7, 2020 16:53:30 GMT -5
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Post by Fletch842 on Feb 8, 2020 6:39:32 GMT -5
I guess they need someone to fire once the boot comes down
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Post by TheAnalyst on Feb 11, 2020 18:30:35 GMT -5
MLB Rumors: Red Sox Sign-Stealing Probe Will Continue into Spring Training "Three people who were with the Red Sox during their 108-win 2018 season told The Athletic that during that regular season, at least some players visited the video replay room during games to learn the sign sequence opponents were using. The replay room is just steps from the home dugout at Fenway Park, through the same doors that lead to the batting cage. Every team’s replay staff travels to road games, making the system viable in other parks as well." bleacherreport.com/articles/2875806-mlb-rumors-red-sox-sign-stealing-probe-will-continue-into-spring-training
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Post by TheAnalyst on Feb 12, 2020 8:34:52 GMT -5
How much did the Red Sox benefit from the sign stealing in 2018? It’s clear that the Red Sox hit much better when there was a runner on second base. They simply crushed offspeed pitches and saw smaller benefits when facing breaking balls and fastballs. The obvious implication is that the team gained an advantage when a runner on second was able to relay the incoming pitch to the batter. When we compare their aggregate run values from 2017 to 2018, I estimate they gained a total cumulative value around five wins — the same estimated benefit the Astros saw with their sign-stealing scheme in 2017. And of course, that doesn’t completely account for the effects that are difficult to quantify, such as the cumulative benefit of requiring opposing pitchers to throw more pitches as hitters lay off of offspeed deliveries designed to entice a swing and a miss. blogs.fangraphs.com/how-much-did-the-red-sox-benefit-from-their-sign-stealing-scheme/
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Post by TheAnalyst on Feb 19, 2020 6:20:29 GMT -5
Boston Red Sox sign-stealing investigation likely to be concluded by end of next week, Rob Manfred says Manfred said the process has been slowed by the emergence of some developments that have caused him to have to reinterview witnesses. “We all want the investigations to go as quickly as possible,” Manfred said. “Never, however, at the expense of making sure we have pursued every possible lead and done everything we can possibly do to get the facts right. There have been a couple of developments in the Boston thing that slowed us down. People that have to be reinterviewed as a result of things. I am still thinking that the end of next week, we should be done and should have a decision.” www.masslive.com/redsox/2020/02/boston-red-sox-sign-stealing-investigation-likely-to-be-concluded-by-end-of-next-week-rob-manfred-says.htmlInteresting. New developments? Sounds like someone finally talked. Also, I love how he says he doesnt want to move as quickly as possible after getting burned on the Astros scandal.
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Post by Morehead State on Feb 20, 2020 11:13:08 GMT -5
How much did the Red Sox benefit from the sign stealing in 2018? It’s clear that the Red Sox hit much better when there was a runner on second base. They simply crushed offspeed pitches and saw smaller benefits when facing breaking balls and fastballs. The obvious implication is that the team gained an advantage when a runner on second was able to relay the incoming pitch to the batter. When we compare their aggregate run values from 2017 to 2018, I estimate they gained a total cumulative value around five wins — the same estimated benefit the Astros saw with their sign-stealing scheme in 2017. And of course, that doesn’t completely account for the effects that are difficult to quantify, such as the cumulative benefit of requiring opposing pitchers to throw more pitches as hitters lay off of offspeed deliveries designed to entice a swing and a miss. blogs.fangraphs.com/how-much-did-the-red-sox-benefit-from-their-sign-stealing-scheme/So you are making the case that the Sox stole signs legally. If the runner on second is stealing signs and relaying them to the hitter, then there is no electronic use in stealing signs.
Ian Kinsler described the Sox stealing signs by the runners on second and I hate to break it to you...It's perfectly legal.
If there was NO advantage with a runner on second, then you could make the case that they were using electronic methods.
But what you are suggesting is that the Sox were using perfectly legal methods. I have no idea what happened. We will wait until the report comes out, but YOU are making the case FOR the Sox with this post.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Feb 20, 2020 12:07:14 GMT -5
How much did the Red Sox benefit from the sign stealing in 2018? It’s clear that the Red Sox hit much better when there was a runner on second base. They simply crushed offspeed pitches and saw smaller benefits when facing breaking balls and fastballs. The obvious implication is that the team gained an advantage when a runner on second was able to relay the incoming pitch to the batter. When we compare their aggregate run values from 2017 to 2018, I estimate they gained a total cumulative value around five wins — the same estimated benefit the Astros saw with their sign-stealing scheme in 2017. And of course, that doesn’t completely account for the effects that are difficult to quantify, such as the cumulative benefit of requiring opposing pitchers to throw more pitches as hitters lay off of offspeed deliveries designed to entice a swing and a miss. blogs.fangraphs.com/how-much-did-the-red-sox-benefit-from-their-sign-stealing-scheme/So you are making the case that the Sox stole signs legally. If the runner on second is stealing signs and relaying them to the hitter, then there is no electronic use in stealing signs.
Ian Kinsler described the Sox stealing signs by the runners on second and I hate to break it to you...It's perfectly legal.
If there was NO advantage with a runner on second, then you could make the case that they were using electronic methods.
But what you are suggesting is that the Sox were using perfectly legal methods. I have no idea what happened. We will wait until the report comes out, but YOU are making the case FOR the Sox with this post.
I didnt write that article. The issue is they supposedly used the video room (technology) to steal the signs real time and get it to the hitter. That's the illegal part.
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Post by Morehead State on Feb 20, 2020 12:18:37 GMT -5
So you are making the case that the Sox stole signs legally. If the runner on second is stealing signs and relaying them to the hitter, then there is no electronic use in stealing signs.
Ian Kinsler described the Sox stealing signs by the runners on second and I hate to break it to you...It's perfectly legal.
If there was NO advantage with a runner on second, then you could make the case that they were using electronic methods.
But what you are suggesting is that the Sox were using perfectly legal methods. I have no idea what happened. We will wait until the report comes out, but YOU are making the case FOR the Sox with this post.
I didnt write that article. The issue is they supposedly used the video room (technology) to steal the signs real time and get it to the hitter. That's the illegal part. Are you suggesting that in real time, they spied electronically, THEN they relayed the sign to the man on second, THEN the man on second relayed the message to the hitter?...ALL in real time?
This is absurd.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Feb 20, 2020 12:21:38 GMT -5
I didnt write that article. The issue is they supposedly used the video room (technology) to steal the signs real time and get it to the hitter. That's the illegal part. Are you suggesting that in real time, they spied electronically, THEN they relayed the sign to the man on second, THEN the man on second relayed the message to the hitter?...ALL in real time?
This is absurd.
Absurd as using apple watches to relay signals. It's what they were investigating.
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Post by Morehead State on Feb 20, 2020 12:33:07 GMT -5
Are you suggesting that in real time, they spied electronically, THEN they relayed the sign to the man on second, THEN the man on second relayed the message to the hitter?...ALL in real time?
This is absurd.
Absurd as using apple watches to relay signals. It's what they were investigating. That was already litigated and the Sox were fined. That was 2017.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Feb 20, 2020 13:43:40 GMT -5
Absurd as using apple watches to relay signals. It's what they were investigating. That was already litigated and the Sox were fined. That was 2017. Yes. Just pointing out how absurd it was. Like this scenario. Relaying a real time pitch to a hitter. That is what this entire investigation is all about. They arent looking into just whether the guy on 2nd figured it out and relayed it to the hitter. That's baseball. No high tech involved. They are looking at the technology part. The video room specifically. And even if this wasnt as outrageous and obnoxious as the Astros, this would be the 2nd year in a row they cheated the system with technology after being told to knock it off.
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Post by Morehead State on Feb 20, 2020 13:48:21 GMT -5
That was already litigated and the Sox were fined. That was 2017. Yes. Just pointing out how absurd it was. Like this scenario. Relaying a real time pitch to a hitter. That is what this entire investigation is all about. They arent looking into just whether the guy on 2nd figured it out and relayed it to the hitter. That's baseball. No high tech involved. They are looking at the technology part. The video room specifically. Your post describing the performance with men on second describes LEGAL sign stealing.
As you say, the investigation is about the use of electronics and video in real time.
Every team videos other teams signs and tries to steal them. They just can't do it during a game. They can't use technology in real time.
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Post by jimmieray on Feb 20, 2020 14:06:45 GMT -5
Yes. Just pointing out how absurd it was. Like this scenario. Relaying a real time pitch to a hitter. That is what this entire investigation is all about. They arent looking into just whether the guy on 2nd figured it out and relayed it to the hitter. That's baseball. No high tech involved. They are looking at the technology part. The video room specifically. Your post describing the performance with men on second describes LEGAL sign stealing.
As you say, the investigation is about the use of electronics and video in real time.
Every team videos other teams signs and tries to steal them. They just can't do it during a game. They can't use technology in real time.
Because all the teams switch around what the signs mean, each game - that's why it's different, right?
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Post by Morehead State on Feb 20, 2020 14:09:55 GMT -5
Your post describing the performance with men on second describes LEGAL sign stealing.
As you say, the investigation is about the use of electronics and video in real time.
Every team videos other teams signs and tries to steal them. They just can't do it during a game. They can't use technology in real time.
Because all the teams switch around what the signs mean, each game - that's why it's different, right? Not sure what you're saying here.
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Post by jimmieray on Feb 21, 2020 6:28:49 GMT -5
Because all the teams switch around what the signs mean, each game - that's why it's different, right? Not sure what you're saying here. I'm assuming that teams change what each sign means, game to game - so studying video of a previous game gives no unfair advantage.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Feb 21, 2020 8:20:16 GMT -5
Canseco, a six-time All-Star and two-time World Series champion, tweeted support for Fiers and his decision to alert MLB about the Astros’ cheating scheme in 2017. The 55-year-old also worked in a shot at Ortiz, hinting at Ortiz’s playing through the steroid era and his past positive test for performance-enhancing drugs in 2003.
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Post by jimmieray on Feb 21, 2020 8:33:50 GMT -5
Canseco, a six-time All-Star and two-time World Series champion, tweeted support for Fiers and his decision to alert MLB about the Astros’ cheating scheme in 2017. The 55-year-old also worked in a shot at Ortiz, hinting at Ortiz’s playing through the steroid era and his past positive test for performance-enhancing drugs in 2003. Fiers is a pitcher, right? So why are some people still saying only the hitters and a few coaches knew about what was going on?
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Post by DandyDon on Feb 21, 2020 8:54:17 GMT -5
Canseco, a six-time All-Star and two-time World Series champion, tweeted support for Fiers and his decision to alert MLB about the Astros’ cheating scheme in 2017. The 55-year-old also worked in a shot at Ortiz, hinting at Ortiz’s playing through the steroid era and his past positive test for performance-enhancing drugs in 2003. Fiers is a pitcher, right? So why are some people still saying only the hitters and a few coaches knew about what was going on? I dont know how you can be bashing on a garbage can all game and any peeps in the dugout dont know what's going on?
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Post by jimmieray on Feb 21, 2020 9:04:56 GMT -5
Fiers is a pitcher, right? So why are some people still saying only the hitters and a few coaches knew about what was going on? I dont know how you can be bashing on a garbage can all game and any peeps in the dugout dont know what's going on? Obviously, but some still speculate that by having the whole team in on it, you risk being outed if any of them leave the team. Even if just a few batters were privy, how do you know none of them could leave or be traded?
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Post by DandyDon on Feb 21, 2020 9:46:50 GMT -5
I dont know how you can be bashing on a garbage can all game and any peeps in the dugout dont know what's going on? Obviously, but some still speculate that by having the whole team in on it, you risk being outed if any of them leave the team. Even if just a few batters were privy, how do you know none of them could leave or be traded? Some still speculate the earth is flat... I'm just trying to wrap my head around anyone believing that a pitcher is sitting in the dugout where someone else is bashing on a trash can so loud it can be heard on the broadcast, and that pitcher not saying something like "hey, would you stop banging on that ****ing trash can?" And that this could keep happening game after game, but the pitcher never finds out why it's happening? Again, that might be logical for a person who thinks the moon landing was faked. But its pretty absurd.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Feb 21, 2020 10:01:30 GMT -5
In 2017 they all knew about it. Not everyone participated.
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Post by Morehead State on Feb 21, 2020 10:40:59 GMT -5
Not sure what you're saying here. I'm assuming that teams change what each sign means, game to game - so studying video of a previous game gives no unfair advantage. Sometimes they change signs several times during a game.
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r2z2
Starter
Posts: 4,706
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Post by r2z2 on Feb 21, 2020 11:36:52 GMT -5
“Stealing signs from 2nd is legal”
“Teams have been stealing signs forever”
These are things that you hear from Blind homers who are ignorant about their team.
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Post by Morehead State on Feb 21, 2020 11:45:36 GMT -5
Sometimes they change signs several times during a game. Thank you for enlightening us D3. You are a blind homer btw. Oh good. Our little ray of sunshine is back....
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Post by jimmieray on Feb 21, 2020 11:47:59 GMT -5
I'm assuming that teams change what each sign means, game to game - so studying video of a previous game gives no unfair advantage. Sometimes they change signs several times during a game. Wasn't aware of that. I'd love to see the look on a batter's face, when he was assured he was getting the right stolen sign, and it was a completely different pitch that made him look like a fool.
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r2z2
Starter
Posts: 4,706
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Post by r2z2 on Feb 21, 2020 11:54:33 GMT -5
Thank you for enlightening us D3. You are a blind homer btw. Oh good. Our little ray of sunshine is back.... I respect you. Anyone who plays baseball in March up in the New England states loves the game. My feet are cold just thinking about standing in right field.
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Post by Morehead State on Feb 21, 2020 11:56:28 GMT -5
Sometimes they change signs several times during a game. Wasn't aware of that. I'd love to see the look on a batter's face, when he was assured he was getting the right stolen sign, and it was a completely different pitch that made him look like a fool. Well here it is.....
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Post by TheAnalyst on Feb 21, 2020 13:51:39 GMT -5
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Post by DandyDon on Feb 21, 2020 14:23:01 GMT -5
“Stealing signs from 2nd is legal” “Teams have been stealing signs forever” These are things that you hear from Blind homers who are ignorant about their team. Those are things that are true.
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